2021 Offseason Thread

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

 

That's probably the most likely outcome. The price will keep Gio from Seattle will be high, the Flames shouldn't pay it. It's the easiest "shakeup" they can make.

 

I just think the organization would love to either keep him or trade him so they don't lose him for nothing. 

 

The biggest thing is the timeline. Expansion lists have to be in sometime on Friday for league approval, by Saturday the Kraken receive the list. Unless the Flames have something brewing, there isn't much time to trade Gio and of course there aren't many realistic partners. 

BT has been known for pulling off trades before time runs out.

It doesn't mean he started calling GM's this morning.

Heck, he proabably talked to Holland.

And promptly hung up.

 

If there is no takers for the player and the price is to high to keep him, BT will just play chicken.

Would be sorry to see you go old salt, but the team has to move on at some point.

 

[Thebrewcrew]

Not surprised the Flames would be interested.

 

Theres talk Hyman wants 42mill though. That would scare the heck out of me

[jjgallow]

Lol.

16 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Not surprised the Flames would be interested.

 

Theres talk Hyman wants 42mill though. That would scare the heck out of me

 

I moved past the scared stage some time ago and now I just rely on laughter. 

 

This is funny.  Of course...Edmonton all over lol

[MP5029]

16 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Not surprised the Flames would be interested.

 

Theres talk Hyman wants 42mill though. That would scare the heck out of me

42 over how long? 

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, MP5029 said:

42 over how long? 

 

The premise was $6m x 7 years.

Sounds like Lucic, doesn't it?

[MP5029]

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

 

The premise was $6m x 7 years.

Sounds like Lucic, doesn't it?

Omfg and he’s 29 so 30 sometime this season…WTF? Why do we keep and or try signing older guys…that would be every bit as bad as the Neil mess that has us stuck with Lucic who is the lesser of 2 bad contracts but still, BT needs to stay away from UFA’s he’s absolutely horrible with targeting the right ones and offering up way too much for the ones he targets 

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

Omfg and he’s 29 so 30 sometime this season…WTF? Why do we keep and or try signing older guys…that would be every bit as bad as the Neil mess that has us stuck with Lucic who is the lesser of 2 bad contracts but still, BT needs to stay away from UFA’s he’s absolutely horrible with targeting the right ones and offering up way too much for the ones he targets 

 

Who says we are actually offering 6x7?

If he stays in TO, it's likely a similar deal as Nuge got, but he's not typically a C.

I would be almost as concerned with 5.25 x 6.

Somehow I doubt we go longer than 6.

 

I think BT has learned his lesson with Neal.

Markstrom was an overpay to get a starter.

Tanev was possibly an overpay to get a type of D we needed.

 

I suspect BT is doing his due diligence, and feeling out the market.

Everything that happens this summer depends on the trade market, the expansion draft and asking prices.

 

We have a few things to deal with immediately after the expansion draft.

Re-signing Dube, Valimaki and Mackey.  

Getting a backup goalie.

We only have 9F and 4D signed.

$13m projected cap.

Losing a player to expansion draft.

[The_People1]

39 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

Omfg and he’s 29 so 30 sometime this season…WTF? Why do we keep and or try signing older guys…that would be every bit as bad as the Neil mess that has us stuck with Lucic who is the lesser of 2 bad contracts but still, BT needs to stay away from UFA’s he’s absolutely horrible with targeting the right ones and offering up way too much for the ones he targets 

 

Exactly. 

 

BT with cap space in Free Agency has become the biggest threat to this franchise.

[LouCifer]

I told you all before, I like Hyman. Gritty, goes to the net, high compete, but I don't like him anywhere higher than $5mil. Plus, he has injury history, so I don't want term. And he's 29... so doesn't fit with the current age group and will slow as he ages. 

 

Essentially, I guess I don't want him. 

[MP5029]

4 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

I told you all before, I like Hyman. Gritty, goes to the net, high compete, but I don't like him anywhere higher than $5mil. Plus, he has injury history, so I don't want term. And he's 29... so doesn't fit with the current age group and will slow as he ages. 

 

Essentially, I guess I don't want him. 

All of those points 100% accurate…he’s gonna get an inflated contract cause he had inflated numbers playing with Mathews…3x3 would not be so bad even with his injury and age but any more $ or term is just plain crazy and over payment 

[travel_dude]

18 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

I told you all before, I like Hyman. Gritty, goes to the net, high compete, but I don't like him anywhere higher than $5mil. Plus, he has injury history, so I don't want term. And he's 29... so doesn't fit with the current age group and will slow as he ages. 

 

Essentially, I guess I don't want him. 

 

So, the GM is also aware of all that.

He has stats guys that look at everything a player does.

Have they learned anything after Brouwer?

Neal signing was not for the reasons why we targeted Brouwer.

And to be honest, Neal showed up as a passenger.

Did nothing to prepare to play.

He did not come as advertized.

 

We don't run out and sign guys to 6-7 year deals, unless they are a key piece like a starter.

Whether or not Markstrom was a mistake, using season 1 results don't prove either way.

And he was the only 6 year or longer guy we have signed as a UFA.

[zima]

46 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Exactly. 

 

BT with cap space in Free Agency has become the biggest threat to this franchise.

I think his trading is just as suspect as far as Im concerned the other fear I have is picking NCAA players and I know lots here think im crazy with that fear but Im not willing to risk top draft picks for players that can at anytime decide to sign with the team he loves and we just lost a pick for nothing.

[sak22]

1 hour ago, zima said:

I think his trading is just as suspect as far as Im concerned the other fear I have is picking NCAA players and I know lots here think im crazy with that fear but Im not willing to risk top draft picks for players that can at anytime decide to sign with the team he loves and we just lost a pick for nothing.

Its as rational as getting food poisonings at a restaurant and deciding to never eat at any restaurant after.  I guess no more Swedes either cause Tim Erixon, or WHL guys because of Jarret Stoll, no Russians because of Rafikov.  Lets just not draft period.

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Exactly. 

 

BT with cap space in Free Agency has become the biggest threat to this franchise.

 

Exactly this.  Well, there's also the draft picks he hands out.

[robrob74]

6 hours ago, jjgallow said:

Lol.

 

I moved past the scared stage some time ago and now I just rely on laughter. 

 

This is funny.  Of course...Edmonton all over lol

 

It kind of reminds me of watching a car crash in slow motion. I wanted to say bus crash, but. 

[Thebrewcrew]

I think there's a chance that Giordano to Seattle ends up being the only big change the Flames make. It's a big one, but I'm not sure the blockbuster to change the core exists.

 

What does the market for Monahan look like? Probably not great. He's coming off a bad season and an injury that will cut into his offseason training. If a trade exists it's likely for futures. 

 

I don't see a Gaudreau deal coming this offseason. This front office likely needs to make the playoffs, a Gaudreau trade really hurts their chances to be a playoff team.

 

 

I think what we will see is a Flames team with largely the same core. With a couple UFA signings to fill out the roster. 

 

Just for fun

Hyman signs at 5.5x5

Armia signs at 3.125x3

Edler at 3.25x2 I would look at Oleksiak, but the money and term will be big

Halak at 2.25x1

Poolman, Hakanpaa or a similar RHD at 1x1

Leaves you with 2.2 in cap space

 

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk

Mangiapane-Monahan-Hyman

Dube-Backlund-Armia

Lucic-Gawdin/Ruzicka-Ritchie

 

Hanifin-Tanev

Edler-Andersson

Valimaki-Poolman

 

Markstrom

Halak

 

Probably not a cup contender, but likely a playoff team in the Pacific.

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I think there's a chance that Giordano to Seattle ends up being the only big change the Flames make. It's a big one, but I'm not sure the blockbuster to change the core exists.

 

What does the market for Monahan look like? Probably not great. He's coming off a bad season and an injury that will cut into his offseason training. If a trade exists it's likely for futures. 

 

I don't see a Gaudreau deal coming this offseason. This front office likely needs to make the playoffs, a Gaudreau trade really hurts their chances to be a playoff team.

 

 

I think what we will see is a Flames team with largely the same core. With a couple UFA signings to fill out the roster. 

 

Just for fun

Hyman signs at 5.5x5

Armia signs at 3.125x3

Edler at 3.25x2 I would look at Oleksiak, but the money and term will be big

Halak at 2.25x1

Poolman, Hakanpaa or a similar RHD at 1x1

Leaves you with 2.2 in cap space

 

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk

Mangiapane-Monahan-Hyman

Dube-Backlund-Armia

Lucic-Gawdin/Ruzicka-Ritchie

 

Hanifin-Tanev

Edler-Andersson

Valimaki-Poolman

 

Markstrom

Halak

 

Probably not a cup contender, but likely a playoff team in the Pacific.

 

I see this as a pretty good guess.   Not that I agree with it being the best course of action, but, a reasonably likely outcome.

 

If the intent is to improve us next year without spending draft picks, well, it's likely going to prove impossible and they'll have to settle for slowing down the damage.  If they choose to "go down with the ship".

 

The only thing I might disagree on is that I don't personally see the above as a playoff team unless we are devoid of all injuries and some key careers take a bounce for the better.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

I see this as a pretty good guess.   Not that I agree with it being the best course of action, but, a reasonably likely outcome.

 

If the intent is to improve us next year without spending draft picks, well, it's likely going to prove impossible and they'll have to settle for slowing down the damage.  If they choose to "go down with the ship".

 

The only thing I might disagree on is that I don't personally see the above as a playoff team unless we are devoid of all injuries and some key careers take a bounce for the better.

 

The Oilers and VGK are really the only other viable teams in the Pacific.

And that assumes EDM doesn't do even more stupid things.

VAN is a bubble team.

California is bad.

Thinking we need a injury free and bounceback of every player to be top 3 is just silly.

 

[MP5029]

4 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I think there's a chance that Giordano to Seattle ends up being the only big change the Flames make. It's a big one, but I'm not sure the blockbuster to change the core exists.

 

What does the market for Monahan look like? Probably not great. He's coming off a bad season and an injury that will cut into his offseason training. If a trade exists it's likely for futures. 

 

I don't see a Gaudreau deal coming this offseason. This front office likely needs to make the playoffs, a Gaudreau trade really hurts their chances to be a playoff team.

 

 

I think what we will see is a Flames team with largely the same core. With a couple UFA signings to fill out the roster. 

 

Just for fun

Hyman signs at 5.5x5

Armia signs at 3.125x3

Edler at 3.25x2 I would look at Oleksiak, but the money and term will be big

Halak at 2.25x1

Poolman, Hakanpaa or a similar RHD at 1x1

Leaves you with 2.2 in cap space

 

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk

Mangiapane-Monahan-Hyman

Dube-Backlund-Armia

Lucic-Gawdin/Ruzicka-Ritchie

 

Hanifin-Tanev

Edler-Andersson

Valimaki-Poolman

 

Markstrom

Halak

 

Probably not a cup contender, but likely a playoff team in the Pacific.

Well might as well trade Tkacuck he’s not a RW…this is why i suggested trade Gaudreau to improve the 2nd Crt and RW side, maybe Rakell or something like that then go with:

 

Tkacuck/Monahan/Lindholm 

Manji/ Reinhart/ Rakell

 

Thisnwould be better short and longer term…ado probably a cheaper fix (though probably not by a whole lot) and opens the possibility to trade Monahan next season…Moreover, there is some

succession planning to replace Monahan with Reinhart.

 

as for the bottom 6 I’m thinking no to Backlund, Dube for sure on the RW with Lucic on the LW unless bu some miracle he’s moved but I’m figuring we are stuck with him for another season or two…sign one FA (Danault but not at 5…so if not him maybe another shut down Ctr or heck even resign Ryan for a year or two if need be) and then load up our youth players on the last 3 slots:

 

Lucic/Danault or Ryan/Dube

Pelletier/Zary/Ruzica 

spares can be Matteson/Ritchie and Tuuloua (sp?)

 

any extra savings spend it wisely on some younger larger D 

 

and before anyone says we can’t, Nas just did a nice little 3 team trade…if we had a capable GM these are solid deals!

[zima]

On 7/16/2021 at 1:15 PM, sak22 said:

Its as rational as getting food poisonings at a restaurant and deciding to never eat at any restaurant after.  I guess no more Swedes either cause Tim Erixon, or WHL guys because of Jarret Stoll, no Russians because of Rafikov.  Lets just not draft period.

I'm Ok with that just stick with the OHL the Q WHL I would never Draft a Russian I thought we had another Russian player that wouldn't come here but like I have said before I know nothing compared to most here. Stoll was just An A hole just an Anomaly T E I thought he was a NCAA player and yes if got poisoning from a restaurant your Absolutely right never go there again hesitant to go else where as well. But mostly If I was a Manager and had the power I would never pick a College Player even if he was power or Beniers These are top quality players who the NHL Team would kill to get and I truly believe they will take there mulligan and go to the team they love unless of course it is the Rangers or TB or California. That is my belief right or wrong I would not risk it so if that was the case I would trade my first over all to one of the top 5 and get a top player or pick.  

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

The Oilers and VGK are really the only other viable teams in the Pacific.

And that assumes EDM doesn't do even more stupid things.

VAN is a bubble team.

California is bad.

Thinking we need a injury free and bounceback of every player to be top 3 is just silly.

 

 

I see the arguement, for sure, but I don't agree.   The Ducks are the only team in the available Pacific list which is separated by more than 6 points from the Flames.   6 points from one season to the next is nothing.   It's worth noting that the Flames were Already in a very very weak division, that's not going to be a new thing, and they still couldn't make the playoffs.

 

the California teams all would have got an extra 3+ points in the division the Flames were in, I would argue a lot more.   That puts them within 3 points of the Flames, and I would argue it puts them almost even with the Flames.

 

It works for them, and against us.     Gone are the days where the toughest team we'll face is Toronto.  I wouldn't under-estimate the Kraken either.

 

All of the California teams as well as Vancouver (4 teams in total) have a ton of youth coming up.   If a rebuild cycle is 5 years they are all somewhere around year 3.   I can see some of those 4 teams continuing to struggle next year.    But all four of them, with the young talent they have?   not a chance.   At least one, more likely two of them will emerge. 

 

that puts us on the outside looking in.   For the next several years.

[Thebrewcrew]

I'm down on the Flames like lots, but I don't think it's crazy to think they have a legit chance at the Playoffs in the Pacific.

 

San Jose is a mess. They are paying for all of the seasons of win-now mode. They'll be in the Shane Wright conversation.

 

Anaheim is still a ways away. If they land Eichel, it'll only hurt their draft position for 2022. If they don't, well that #3 pick isn't helping them in 21/22. Drysdale and Zegras are great, but there are so many holes on that roster.

 

Los Angeles might take a step next year. Might being the key word. It'll take some exceptional play from their ELC's to get it done and Doughty/Kopitar will need to have big years.

 

Seattle biggest wildcard in the division. They'll have some highly motivated players. That's not nothing.

 

Vancouver, I just don't see them being better than Calgary. They have very little NHL caliber depth, that will be even tougher to acquire now that EP and Hughes will be getting big money. They have 15 mill to sign 7 players... 

 

EDM and VGK I would slot in as the two most likely playoff teams in the Pacific.

 

If we wanna talk 3 years down the road, then absolutely the Flames may have a hard time making the playoffs, but 21/22 is very attainable.

[jjgallow]

38 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I'm down on the Flames like lots, but I don't think it's crazy to think they have a legit chance at the Playoffs in the Pacific.

 

San Jose is a mess. They are paying for all of the seasons of win-now mode. They'll be in the Shane Wright conversation.

 

Anaheim is still a ways away. If they land Eichel, it'll only hurt their draft position for 2022. If they don't, well that #3 pick isn't helping them in 21/22. Drysdale and Zegras are great, but there are so many holes on that roster.

 

Los Angeles might take a step next year. Might being the key word. It'll take some exceptional play from their ELC's to get it done and Doughty/Kopitar will need to have big years.

 

Seattle biggest wildcard in the division. They'll have some highly motivated players. That's not nothing.

 

Vancouver, I just don't see them being better than Calgary. They have very little NHL caliber depth, that will be even tougher to acquire now that EP and Hughes will be getting big money. They have 15 mill to sign 7 players... 

 

EDM and VGK I would slot in as the two most likely playoff teams in the Pacific.

 

If we wanna talk 3 years down the road, then absolutely the Flames may have a hard time making the playoffs, but 21/22 is very attainable.

 

I feel the need to clarify that I don't consider myself "down" on the Flames like I was... 

 

I started getting Really down on the Flames when we cut our rebuild short.  It was clearly premature.

Then Bob Hartley had that miracle season and I was like, well I'll try and stay in the wagon.

But we continued to make short term decisions to give that miracle some kind of permanence, which is simply wasn't.

These last few years as I've watched the short term decision making I've never been so down on the Flames.

 

But now, I feel like the worst is likely behind us in terms of decision making (unless BT burns more draft picks).

BT has ran out of ammo to make poor decisions.   He's out of cap, he's out of RHS D to give up.  He doesn't have prospects to ruin.

 

So now I feel like there's light at the end of the tunnel, at least in terms of decisions.  All we can really do now is play hockey and draft players.

 

I'm optimistic in that regard.

 

What happens on the ice, however, is always several years delayed.  We're about to start paying the real price for those bad decisions.   And that's ok, with two of the greatest drafts in NHL history ahead of us.    

 

With regards to you assessment, I agree with a Lot of it.  but not enough of it, things are too close, little discrepancies matter.

San Jose:  Yeah they a mess.   But I would rather their prospects than ours.    I see it as we have a Chance to stay ahead of them.  that is all.

Anaheim really fell apart but I am not nearly as down on them as others are.   Their youth is strong.  I think we have a Chance against them, no more.

 

Los Angeles:  They are on the up and up at this point.   Very very young with a lot of talent emerging.  If they improve even a Little bit, they are in the playoffs in this weakened division.

 

Vancouver:  I hate the Cunucks.  But they have enormously talented and cheap young players just emerging under the age of 21, including two absolutely incredible defencemen and then forwards to go with it.   They are all going to see 20-30% performance increases next year.   So, as much as I hate them I don't see us standing a chance against them as we are Just starting to enter our rebuild and they are just seeing the fruits of theirs.

 

And yes EDM, VGK, likely make playoffs.    Seattle 50/50 wildcard.     Vancouver, in this easier division, is also getting in imho.

 

So the way I see it, you have 3 teams playoff bound, Seattle wildcard, LA I think makes it, Anaheim down but not out, San Jose not looking good.

 

That's 4 question marks.  Seattle, Flames, LA, Anaheim.  In my mind.    Only one of them gets in the playoffs and it's not likely going to be the team in the most decline (the Flames).

[cross16]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I'm down on the Flames like lots, but I don't think it's crazy to think they have a legit chance at the Playoffs in the Pacific.

 

San Jose is a mess. They are paying for all of the seasons of win-now mode. They'll be in the Shane Wright conversation.

 

Anaheim is still a ways away. If they land Eichel, it'll only hurt their draft position for 2022. If they don't, well that #3 pick isn't helping them in 21/22. Drysdale and Zegras are great, but there are so many holes on that roster.

 

Los Angeles might take a step next year. Might being the key word. It'll take some exceptional play from their ELC's to get it done and Doughty/Kopitar will need to have big years.

 

Seattle biggest wildcard in the division. They'll have some highly motivated players. That's not nothing.

 

Vancouver, I just don't see them being better than Calgary. They have very little NHL caliber depth, that will be even tougher to acquire now that EP and Hughes will be getting big money. They have 15 mill to sign 7 players... 

 

EDM and VGK I would slot in as the two most likely playoff teams in the Pacific.

 

If we wanna talk 3 years down the road, then absolutely the Flames may have a hard time making the playoffs, but 21/22 is very attainable.

I agree. I wouldn’t argue that the flames are on the right track but I think, baring a crazy offseason, they’ll be a playoff team. I don’t think they are bad as some fans think and in a bad division I see them being in the top 3. Honestly wouldn’t be shocked at all to see them finish above the Oilers. 

[Thebrewcrew]

21 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I agree. I wouldn’t argue that the flames are on the right track but I think, baring a crazy offseason, they’ll be a playoff team. I don’t think they are bad as some fans think and in a bad division I see them being in the top 3. Honestly wouldn’t be shocked at all to see them finish above the Oilers. 

I agree, as bad as this season was, with a full season under Sutter the Flames have a chance in the Pacific.

 

Aside from 97 and 29, I think there’s an argument to be made that the Flames are better than the Oilers. Even if that’s not the case, I don’t think the remainder of the Pacific is better than Calgary. At least for 21/22