2021 Offseason Thread

[sak22]

40 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Kylinton re-signed just today.  I'm not sure there is as much of an appetite to bring back Stone.

I could be wrong of course, but don't think Stone is Plan A.

It's not like they dominated with him in the lineup.

And with the loss of Gio's scoring, they need a better puckmover more than a pure defender.

My gut is telling me Stone will be here on a PTO if he doesn't get a contract somewhere else.

[travel_dude]

4 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I'm surprised Kylington re signed. Thought he might play hardball to try and get a better opportunity somewhere else or maybe even try overseas. 

 

The only plus thing for him is it's a $300k AHL salary.

With waivers, there probably a chance he could get claimed.

But, who knows.

 

[LouCifer]

10 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I'm surprised Kylington re signed. Thought he might play hardball to try and get a better opportunity somewhere else or maybe even try overseas. 

Perhaps being signed to a 2-way contract makes him more appealing in a trade? 

[cross16]

I personally don't think he would get claimed nor do I think he is tradable. i could see a team maybe swapping similar players (tweeners) with the Flames but I can't see a team eating a contract on him. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

I personally don't think he would get claimed nor do I think he is tradable. i could see a team maybe swapping similar players (tweeners) with the Flames but I can't see a team eating a contract on him. 

 

Smart asset management, playing him so sparingly and asking him to make mistajes so nobody would claim him.

sarcasm off

[kehatch]

Agree with Cross. Kylington probably isn't getting claimed, at least early in the season when the waiver wire is packed. 

 

He reminds me of Chris Butler a bit. He is... Fine. Not physical, limited offensive accuman, okay defence but he doesn't make up for his occasional brain fart with a string of great shifts or some big points. He is fast, but he either needs to be more consistent or excel in a part of his game to justify the NHL spot. 

 

Maybe he will pull a Kulak and find another level. But right now he is replacement level, and his potential doesn't justify holding a spot. At least in my opinion. 

[travel_dude]

Kylington played 8 games in which the Flames when 6-1-1.

Overall -1.

Played 5 games arounf 14-17 minutes and 3 games between 7 and 19 minutes.

For a replacement level player, he played remarkably okay.

 

He's prone to making mistakes.

90% of the time his skating gets him out of it.

95 NHL games, you think he might actually beat out a KHL retread or player with 6 career games. 

[The_People1]

8 hours ago, cross16 said:

I'm surprised Kylington re signed. Thought he might play hardball to try and get a better opportunity somewhere else or maybe even try overseas. 

 

Ya agreed.  Maybe he looked at our current roster and figured there's going to be a good chance he gets to play a lot this season.  As it stands right now, he's like our 6th Dman.

[conundrumed]

13 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

The only plus thing for him is it's a $300k AHL salary.

With waivers, there probably a chance he could get claimed.

But, who knows.

 

That's pretty crafty negotiating to get $300,000 in the A. No escrow on that also. Close to the same take home pay either way.

This is without a doubt his show me year. Accepting the qualifier looks like more on the surface, but this is a better deal for him.

[cross16]

I still like actually like Kylington so don't mean to sound negative towards him. I'm actually happy he is back as he is very good depth to have. 

 

I just think every organization has a player like Kylington, kind of that NHL/AHL tweener, and for that reason teams are not going to use a contract on picking him up. It's good for the Flames though as I think they need him this year especially for some depth. I still think he's an NHL dman. 

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

That's pretty crafty negotiating to get $300,000 in the A. No escrow on that also. Close to the same take home pay either way.

This is without a doubt his show me year. Accepting the qualifier looks like more on the surface, but this is a better deal for him.

 

I think that is a standard number, but I don't know if it's related to years in the AHL or what.  

I've seen others with the same terms on 2-way deals.

 

2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I still like actually like Kylington so don't mean to sound negative towards him. I'm actually happy he is back as he is very good depth to have. 

 

I just think every organization has a player like Kylington, kind of that NHL/AHL tweener, and for that reason teams are not going to use a contract on picking him up. It's good for the Flames though as I think they need him this year especially for some depth. I still think he's an NHL dman. 

 

I don't know where he stands in Sutter's mind.  It's hard for him to take the next step when he's out more than he is in and doesn't get AHL games.  He really should be close to a finished product at this point, but practice only gets you so far.  I get and agree that there is less chance every time he gets waived to be claimed.  Too many players are in the same category and some don't even have deals yet.  Every team is going to waive some D this fall.  But, I do think he stands a better chance at being a 7th D than say Mackey, due to waiver status.  You can bring in Mackey any time you want and have him play in the AHL as a top defender.   

[conundrumed]

Ahh the dog days of summer...get the RFA's signed and get ready to grasp into what's left in FA, scare us with PTO's on tweeners, rinse and repeat.

Can't wait until the Pelletier, Zary, Kuznetsov, Mackey, Ruzicka crowd can graduate to meaningful NHLers and stop pulling our hair out waiting for substantial improvements via our own prospects. It's been Mangia, Dube, Andersson and then cliff for too long. Almost Valimaki. Almost nothing in bottom 6, always rent-a-tweener or slow and nothing to get excited about.

[Heartbreaker]

2 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Ahh the dog days of summer...get the RFA's signed and get ready to grasp into what's left in FA, scare us with PTO's on tweeners, rinse and repeat.

Can't wait until the Pelletier, Zary, Kuznetsov, Mackey, Ruzicka crowd can graduate to meaningful NHLers and stop pulling our hair out waiting for substantial improvements via our own prospects. It's been Mangia, Dube, Andersson and then cliff for too long. Almost Valimaki. Almost nothing in bottom 6, always rent-a-tweener or slow and nothing to get excited about.

 

I always get nervous around this time of year... I am hopeful that Pelletier, Zary, and eventually Coronato aren't on the Jankowski/Bennett development path. I'm not overly optimistic, however.

 

Love.

[travel_dude]

50 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Ahh the dog days of summer...get the RFA's signed and get ready to grasp into what's left in FA, scare us with PTO's on tweeners, rinse and repeat.

Can't wait until the Pelletier, Zary, Kuznetsov, Mackey, Ruzicka crowd can graduate to meaningful NHLers and stop pulling our hair out waiting for substantial improvements via our own prospects. It's been Mangia, Dube, Andersson and then cliff for too long. Almost Valimaki. Almost nothing in bottom 6, always rent-a-tweener or slow and nothing to get excited about.

 

I actually thought we had moved on from the idea of playing a top 6 prospect limited minutes on the 4th line.

Ruzicka is not a true defensive player, so he should not be 4th line unless it consists of a couple offensive players to match his skills.

Pelletier is a playmaker first and foremost; not quite the same touch as Mangiapane.  He's also just turning pro.

Not a great fit with Backlund unless there is a finisher with him.

 

The graduate to the NHL part is always the hardest part with this team.

Mangiapane, Dube and Ras all played partial season for two years before they graduated.

We messed up one year to integrate some AHL players into the mix.

Ruzicka and Phillips should have gotten about 10 games last year to try them out in different situations.

It's not like we were winning games every night.

Mackey played 6 and Kylington 8, though Kylington should have been played over Nesterov.

 

I just don't know what the team is meaning top be. 

We have good forecheckers.

A couple of guys to punish.

Okay, but not high level offence from the D.

Middle of the road PP.

 

I am actually okay signing guys that are actually worth something.

When we get to a TDL and nobody wants our crap, then we have signed crap.

It would be nice having a spare defender that we can auction off and get a 2nd or 3rd for, instead of paying a 2nd or 3rd.

[kehatch]

5 hours ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

I always get nervous around this time of year... I am hopeful that Pelletier, Zary, and eventually Coronato aren't on the Jankowski/Bennett development path. I'm not overly optimistic, however.

 

Love.

 

Most of the Flames top players were drafted and developed by the team. 

[ABC923]

I’ll be interested to see if Kinnvall can come in and grab a lineup spot. Had his last season truncated by injury, but looks to be a solid offensive producer from the back end.

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, ABC923 said:

I’ll be interested to see if Kinnvall can come in and grab a lineup spot. Had his last season truncated by injury, but looks to be a solid offensive producer from the back end.

 

As a prospect, he's one of the older ones.

Definitely more developed.

He's probably capable of playing in the NHL, but I doubt he makes the jump directly out of camp.

It's just the way it works here.

They want to see what he can do in the AHL, and will likely be buried in the depth chart as a result.

[Heartbreaker]

33 minutes ago, kehatch said:

Most of the Flames top players were drafted and developed by the team. 

 

Oh yeah, I get that, but we can't pretend that they've got an exceptional record when it comes to development. I'm not convinced that the best place for Sam Bennett was ever in between Brouwer and Bouma, and yet, there he was. Then he was put on the wing, and then on his off wing, etc... highest draft pick in Flames history.

 

I know that they're not all like that, and I know that other teams miss as well - but I don't have a lot of faith in their development, and I also don't have a lot of faith in Darryl Sutter when it comes to the younger players.

 

Love.

[robrob74]

9 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think that is a standard number, but I don't know if it's related to years in the AHL or what.  

I've seen others with the same terms on 2-way deals.

 

 

I don't know where he stands in Sutter's mind.  It's hard for him to take the next step when he's out more than he is in and doesn't get AHL games.  He really should be close to a finished product at this point, but practice only gets you so far.  I get and agree that there is less chance every time he gets waived to be claimed.  Too many players are in the same category and some don't even have deals yet.  Every team is going to waive some D this fall.  But, I do think he stands a better chance at being a 7th D than say Mackey, due to waiver status.  You can bring in Mackey any time you want and have him play in the AHL as a top defender.   

 

They had Kylington on the Fan today and they asked him if Sutter gave him any advice. Kylington said that he told him to be ready and in game shape, ready to bring what he is able to bring. There wasn't much more than that. 

 

I honestly think his biggest issue is that he's a passive player. I think he has the tools to play, but needs to be assertive. Maybe it's the fact he's such a good skater he doesn't look like he's trying. But I just think he should play a faster game for being a faster player. Maybe your suggestion of trying him at forward could get him to do that? 

[robrob74]

7 hours ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

I always get nervous around this time of year... I am hopeful that Pelletier, Zary, and eventually Coronato aren't on the Jankowski/Bennett development path. I'm not overly optimistic, however.

 

Love.

 

I think it really depends on how they transition. I think Benny would have done good to be in the AHL for a season to work on his C game. 

 

I hope that they can translate better than the Janks and Benny reference. It's a tough call. I like the sound of Zary, but I also felt they should have gone Schneider at D that draft. We could use another possible top4 in the cupboard.

 

I am worried that we end up with a lot of Mangiapane's and Dube's, but don't find those 1st liners to transition this core out.

[robrob74]

6 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I actually thought we had moved on from the idea of playing a top 6 prospect limited minutes on the 4th line.

Ruzicka is not a true defensive player, so he should not be 4th line unless it consists of a couple offensive players to match his skills.

Pelletier is a playmaker first and foremost; not quite the same touch as Mangiapane.  He's also just turning pro.

Not a great fit with Backlund unless there is a finisher with him.

 

The graduate to the NHL part is always the hardest part with this team.

Mangiapane, Dube and Ras all played partial season for two years before they graduated.

We messed up one year to integrate some AHL players into the mix.

Ruzicka and Phillips should have gotten about 10 games last year to try them out in different situations.

It's not like we were winning games every night.

Mackey played 6 and Kylington 8, though Kylington should have been played over Nesterov.

 

I just don't know what the team is meaning top be. 

We have good forecheckers.

A couple of guys to punish.

Okay, but not high level offence from the D.

Middle of the road PP.

 

I am actually okay signing guys that are actually worth something.

When we get to a TDL and nobody wants our crap, then we have signed crap.

It would be nice having a spare defender that we can auction off and get a 2nd or 3rd for, instead of paying a 2nd or 3rd.

 

 

I like what you said in a previous post weeks ago. You said something along the lines of playing prospects in positions you want them to develop in. It is what I hate about always earned, because the career AHLers know how to play but block the development. Play guys you want as a PP specialist on the PP... as one example.

[sak22]

22 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I think it really depends on how they transition. I think Benny would have done good to be in the AHL for a season to work on his C game. 

 

 

Not a lot of success stories for top 5 picks going to the minors after some success in the NHL.  At least for the team drafting them, players don't view an extended role in the minors as any type of promotion, less pay, and worse living conditions.  Sending Bennett would've just fractured that relationship sooner.

[robrob74]

29 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Not a lot of success stories for top 5 picks going to the minors after some success in the NHL.  At least for the team drafting them, players don't view an extended role in the minors as any type of promotion, less pay, and worse living conditions.  Sending Bennett would've just fractured that relationship sooner.

 

 

It is probably true. 

And a lot of players get to play in the playoffs when young. Would it have needed to happen before playing the full NHL season?

[kehatch]

2 hours ago, Heartbreaker said:

 

Oh yeah, I get that, but we can't pretend that they've got an exceptional record when it comes to development. I'm not convinced that the best place for Sam Bennett was ever in between Brouwer and Bouma, and yet, there he was. Then he was put on the wing, and then on his off wing, etc... highest draft pick in Flames history.

 

I know that they're not all like that, and I know that other teams miss as well - but I don't have a lot of faith in their development, and I also don't have a lot of faith in Darryl Sutter when it comes to the younger players.

 

Love.

 

I think the Flames have been pretty good recently. They have had guys make the NHL right away and other whom have taken the long road, and generally they have had success with both. 

 

There are certainly misses, but that's true for any club. The hit rate has been pretty good, especially since the 2015 draft class. 

[robrob74]

37 minutes ago, kehatch said:

 

I think the Flames have been pretty good recently. They have had guys make the NHL right away and other whom have taken the long road, and generally they have had success with both. 

 

There are certainly misses, but that's true for any club. The hit rate has been pretty good, especially since the 2015 draft class. 

 

 

I think it's the higher end prospects that we haven't hit on since Gaudreau. Mangiapane is good. My only thing with him is, he is a good complimentary piece, but not a game changer. He has nice fancy stats. He is probably what you want out of a middle 6 winger. I guess the worst thing would be not hitting on a true #1C, which is why we have to go after Eichel. 

 

Monahan is a really good player, he's just not a #1. Backlund is a good defender, but can't contain other team's bests when it matters in the playoffs. Lindholm is a more offensive Backlund type and perfect for a top RW or 2nd line C. 

 

There's just a mishmash of players. It is really good to draft NHLers. But when the group you've mostly drafted can't get you past the 1st round, what are they? 

 

Dube is still quite raw, which is why he had a down year last year. I expect him to be better this year. He got ahead of himself and needed to be brought back down to earth. I see him as a good middle 6er too. But at the same time, they're very similar players. Good motors, but not game changers. I guess if the team isn't going to skate anyway, it doesn't really matter what skill you have, or whether you've drafted NHL players. Because if they're not going to try or skate, then there's no point. 
 

I guess I point to those two as two that were depth draft successes. It's great to draft Tkachuk, Monahan, Valamaki, and Bennett. They are all players who should be making the NHL. I find the real success is in Gaudreau, Andersson, Dube and Mangiapane for the recent players. We missed on the Baertschi, Bennett, Poirier, Klimchuk picks which is really why we are where we are with the amount of holes. I just think the ones that made it in the first round were no-brainers, and I guess you have to give the team credit for drafting them. I'd just like to see a bit more creativity in their selections. Get some gems in the Euro-leagues. 

 

I agree with you though, it has been better than in some years. That's why I wish we wouldn't trade away picks. I just think we are starting to get good at finding a type of player, Mangiapanes/Dubes.