2021 Offseason Thread

[Thebrewcrew]

 

[bosn111]

Even with Giordano taken in the expansion draft, the Flames only have 18.625 million in projected cap space with only 14 players signed. When you consider that there is a need for at least 20 contracts, most teams carry 22 or 23, the Flames need to use a good portion of the space just to ice enough players.

 

RFAs

Dube 1 mil +. Say 1.5

Gawdin 800k

Valimaki (over 1 mil) say 1.5

Kylington 900k

Mackey 950k

 

Leaves about 13 mil cap space

 

That gives the Flames 

 

Gaudreau Monahan??

Tkachuk Lindholm Mangiapane 

Dube Backlund Pitlick

Lucic Gawdin Ritchie

Froese

 

Hanifin Andersson 

Valimaki Tanev

Kylington ??

Mackey

 

Markstrom

??

 

So to ice a team, Flames have 13 mil for a top 6 RW, Bottom pair RD and a backup G. Should be easy enough to do.

 

G and D could be fairly easy holes to fill signing UFAs, but not really a top 6 RW. Palmieri and Armia are likely best options, but both are more middle 6.

 

This team doesn’t scream improved to me, more like downgraded. 
 

Ryan > Gawdin

Giordano > Kylington 

Unknown top RW and Backup G

Not really filling top RW

 

Unless Treliving finds the perfect RW for Gaudreau and Monahan, I just don’t see the Flames even competing for a playoff spot, let alone the cup.
 

A combination of Nemeth and Montour would improve the D significantly but that will eat up likely around 7 or 8 mil of the cap. Palmieri likely in the 4 - 5 range and Armia in the 3 - 4 range.

 

If we really want to improve, we need to trade out a good player (not a high cap, low output player) in order to get a high end RW in exchange. This likely means one of Gaudreau or Tkachuk needs to be moved. Monahan would be preferred but I think the return for him with injury history means his value is less.

 

 I don’t know which RW to target as it depends who is traded, but I just don’t see the Flames improving enough without trading something of quality.

 

Gaudreau Lindholm RW

Mangiapane  Backlund Palmieri?

Dube Zacha Armia

Lucic Ruzicka Pitlick

 

Hanifin Tanev

Nemeth Andersson 

Valimaki Montour 

Mackey

 

Markstrom

G

 

This lineup is much stronger on the back end, improves the bottom 6, allows for more cap to afford trading in the 2 top 6 RW that could be had in trading Tkachuk and Monahan. Monahan would likely get Zacha+, at 2.25 and even signing all of Palmieri, Armia, Nemeth and Montour to upper end numbers (17 mil), subtract Tkachuk (traded for RW) and Monahan (13.375 combined) and the difference is 6 million more spent on 5 players than 2. Dropping Gawdin and Kylington contracts means the Flames would have about 9 mil for the top RW and backup G which is very reasonable to achieve.

 

Just my opinion but the second lineup looks much stronger and more balanced while still giving at least 1 young guy a shot. If out of playoffs at TDL, can always trade Gaudreau as a rental if he hasn’t signed extension and bring up a young guy like Pelletier to finish the season.

 

Some ideas to consider anyways.

[MP5029]

1 hour ago, bosn111 said:

Even with Giordano taken in the expansion draft, the Flames only have 18.625 million in projected cap space with only 14 players signed. When you consider that there is a need for at least 20 contracts, most teams carry 22 or 23, the Flames need to use a good portion of the space just to ice enough players.

 

RFAs

Dube 1 mil +. Say 1.5

Gawdin 800k

Valimaki (over 1 mil) say 1.5

Kylington 900k

Mackey 950k

 

Leaves about 13 mil cap space

 

That gives the Flames 

 

Gaudreau Monahan??

Tkachuk Lindholm Mangiapane 

Dube Backlund Pitlick

Lucic Gawdin Ritchie

Froese

 

Hanifin Andersson 

Valimaki Tanev

Kylington ??

Mackey

 

Markstrom

??

 

So to ice a team, Flames have 13 mil for a top 6 RW, Bottom pair RD and a backup G. Should be easy enough to do.

 

G and D could be fairly easy holes to fill signing UFAs, but not really a top 6 RW. Palmieri and Armia are likely best options, but both are more middle 6.

 

This team doesn’t scream improved to me, more like downgraded. 
 

Ryan > Gawdin

Giordano > Kylington 

Unknown top RW and Backup G

Not really filling top RW

 

Unless Treliving finds the perfect RW for Gaudreau and Monahan, I just don’t see the Flames even competing for a playoff spot, let alone the cup.
 

A combination of Nemeth and Montour would improve the D significantly but that will eat up likely around 7 or 8 mil of the cap. Palmieri likely in the 4 - 5 range and Armia in the 3 - 4 range.

 

If we really want to improve, we need to trade out a good player (not a high cap, low output player) in order to get a high end RW in exchange. This likely means one of Gaudreau or Tkachuk needs to be moved. Monahan would be preferred but I think the return for him with injury history means his value is less.

 

 I don’t know which RW to target as it depends who is traded, but I just don’t see the Flames improving enough without trading something of quality.

 

Gaudreau Lindholm RW

Mangiapane  Backlund Palmieri?

Dube Zacha Armia

Lucic Ruzicka Pitlick

 

Hanifin Tanev

Nemeth Andersson 

Valimaki Montour 

Mackey

 

Markstrom

G

 

This lineup is much stronger on the back end, improves the bottom 6, allows for more cap to afford trading in the 2 top 6 RW that could be had in trading Tkachuk and Monahan. Monahan would likely get Zacha+, at 2.25 and even signing all of Palmieri, Armia, Nemeth and Montour to upper end numbers (17 mil), subtract Tkachuk (traded for RW) and Monahan (13.375 combined) and the difference is 6 million more spent on 5 players than 2. Dropping Gawdin and Kylington contracts means the Flames would have about 9 mil for the top RW and backup G which is very reasonable to achieve.

 

Just my opinion but the second lineup looks much stronger and more balanced while still giving at least 1 young guy a shot. If out of playoffs at TDL, can always trade Gaudreau as a rental if he hasn’t signed extension and bring up a young guy like Pelletier to finish the season.

 

Some ideas to consider anyways.

This…and with rumours that we are still in on Eichel you have to wonder…how and why he missed the Reinhart option…tunnel vision by BT I think…and that why we have theses holes and why we are missing out on really good options to other teamszz

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, bosn111 said:

Gaudreau Monahan??

Tkachuk Lindholm Mangiapane 

Dube Backlund Pitlick

Lucic Gawdin Ritchie

Froese

 

Hanifin Andersson 

Valimaki Tanev

Kylington ??

Mackey

 

Markstrom

??

 

Froese is likely AHL and I expect Ritchie just to be a part time RW.  There isn't as much reason to have 2 extra forwards on the squad, so I expect maybe a depth winger to be signed.  Perhaps Kahun out of EDM, as he's not being qualified.  Another option is Khaira, who will likely get less than the $1.3m he was due to be qualified for (also isn't being qualified).  Injury is a concern, but keep him away from fighting and he provides some size and attitude. 

 

Obviously lacking is LD and top 6 RW.  Even if we trade Tkachuk for Eichel, we still lack a RW, after moving Lindholm to RW.  I would stay away from the high-priced D in FA and only look at those available for lesser amounts and possible trades (like Dunne).  We have extra 2nd and 3rd rounders.  Can sign the inevitable Stone extension for minimum.  

Perhaps Brossoit is available as a UFA for G.

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, MP5029 said:

This…and with rumours that we are still in on Eichel you have to wonder…how and why he missed the Reinhart option…tunnel vision by BT I think…and that why we have theses holes and why we are missing out on really good options to other teamszz

 

They wanted Monahan and a 1st from us.  Or was it Mangiapane and a 1st?  In either case, that worth a mot more to us than an extra goalie and a 1st.

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, MP5029 said:

This…and with rumours that we are still in on Eichel you have to wonder…how and why he missed the Reinhart option…tunnel vision by BT I think…and that why we have theses holes and why we are missing out on really good options to other teamszz

 

Maybe there's another Reinhart out there that we aren't thinking of? We've had eyes on Kadri in the past. I don't mean we'd circle back, but had our eyes on the type of player you're thinking of. 

 

We do need an elite player, but I also wonder if we got a bonafide two-way C to play 2nd line we'd have a lot of options. Monahan is trying to get there. Maybe we just stick with him, I just don't like his speed, but maybe that's the injury that hinders him. I just thinking he should start shutting it down if he is injured so he can actually work on aspects of his game full time in a summer if he can. He's the type to do it, but the injuries have slowed that. Maybe there's a team that would like to do a Monahan (30 goal scorer) for a 2-WAY guy? 

 

We could get an elite player, but if the compete isn't there yet then they're just pretty toys. 

 

Too bad we didn't go Bean... I'd be ok with the 2nd on a D with upside. For me, 1sts are scary. 

 

 

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

They wanted Monahan and a 1st from us.  Or was it Mangiapane and a 1st?  In either case, that worth a mot more to us than an extra goalie and a 1st.

 

I wouldn't do Monahan and a 1st for Reinhart. 

 

I might do Monahan and a 2nd or 3rd? I don't know whether I want to give up Wolf. If he can develop into at least a quality back-up, we might need to keep him. 

I might do Mangiapane, Phillips and a 2nd?

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

I wouldn't do Monahan and a 1st for Reinhart. 

 

I might do Monahan and a 2nd or 3rd? I don't know whether I want to give up Wolf. If he can develop into at least a quality back-up, we might need to keep him. 

I might do Mangiapane, Phillips and a 2nd?

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't hink he was a cheap deal.

FLA game up a WJC Gold winner as a prospect.

They did hedge their bets by making it a protected 1st (smart).

 

I like Reinhart, but Monahan should have equal or more value than him.

Monahan + anything is overpaying.

A 1st + Wolf + paying $7m long term?

Not worth it to me.

[travel_dude]

Some offer tendering news:

 

The following received qualifying offers:

Dube, Kylington, Gawdin, Phillips, Kirkland, CJ Lerby, Mackey, Parsons, Philp, Poolman, Valimaki, Yelesin.

 

The following did not and become UFA:

Big Snag Zag, Simon.

 

Yelesin had signed with the KHL, so this only really hangs onto his right.  Doubt he comes back over.

[MP5029]

8 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Some offer tendering news:

 

The following received qualifying offers:

Dube, Kylington, Gawdin, Phillips, Kirkland, CJ Lerby, Mackey, Parsons, Philp, Poolman, Valimaki, Yelesin.

 

The following did not and become UFA:

Big Snag Zag, Simon.

 

Yelesin had signed with the KHL, so this only really hangs onto his right.  Doubt he comes back over.

Yeah Yelesin is kinda a sucky deal, he had potential to be a good 5/6 D maybe more but…Cgy never really gave him a shot, can’t blame hi going to the K…

[travel_dude]

7 hours ago, MP5029 said:

Yeah Yelesin is kinda a sucky deal, he had potential to be a good 5/6 D maybe more but…Cgy never really gave him a shot, can’t blame hi going to the K…

 

We sign people from the KHL and other leagues almost never give them a shot.  I don't know why we bother.

It's no wonder why we draft so few Russians.

[robrob74]

48 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

We sign people from the KHL and other leagues almost never give them a shot.  I don't know why we bother.

It's no wonder why we draft so few Russians.

 

i guess that it’s mostly to fill the void we have in Stockton in hopes of them being more than that?

[travel_dude]

23 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

i guess that it’s mostly to fill the void we have in Stockton in hopes of them being more than that?

 

Not really.  The problem is that we want a player that can impact the team in NA, but we send them to Stockton to adjust.

And they rot there.

Yelesin played a steady 4 games on the Flames and he was never a consideration.

I sometimes wonder if we are using Stockton as a way of teaching winning, so win at all costs.

What good is it to give a 30 year old Froese or Petrovic or 29 year old Buddy ice there?

Get them prepped for NHL call up?

 

Don't get me wrong, I like some of the things we have done there.  

Development of some of our young players.

But we fail to get some of them ready enough to be trusted in the NHL.

 

[travel_dude]

The Neal saga is just about done.

On waivers for buyout.

So is Jones and Holtby.

Boy, did VAN back the wrong horse.

[cross16]

34 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

i guess that it’s mostly to fill the void we have in Stockton in hopes of them being more than that?

 

The VAST majority of Euro/College free agents are going to fall into this bucket. Not just for the Flames but league wide. 

[LouCifer]

So… if JH isn’t signed or traded by - noon EST tomorrow is it? 
 

How (un)comfortable are we all feeling?

[travel_dude]

9 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

So… if JH isn’t signed or traded by - midnight tonight is it? 
 

How (un)comfortable are we all feeling?

 

Unless there is a total breakdown in negotiations, I don't have a big concern.

Today is only important if we are looking for a trade.

And doing that only makes sense if it makes us a better team now and for the future.

My bigger concern is that we sit on our hands and don't replace the loss on D and lack of depth and RW.

 

[sak22]

26 minutes ago, lou44291 said:

So… if JH isn’t signed or traded by - noon EST tomorrow is it? 
 

How (un)comfortable are we all feeling?

I've said since the end of last year, we aren't going to like the return if he is traded.  I'm just as comfortable saying that if we have 5 teams or 31 to deal with.

[cross16]

Way too much is being made of this NTC. Gaudreau is 1 year away from UFA so he basically has a built in NTC right there. NO team outside the 5 he can OK is going to pay significantly more in assets to acquire a player they know they can't retain.  The 5 teams on that list are likely the ones willing to give you the best return anyway. 

 

I'm still a bit concerned about the AAV but i do think Gaudreau holds more value to the Flames to re sign than trade. I don't think the trade return would be fantastic. 

[travel_dude]

33 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Way too much is being made of this NTC. Gaudreau is 1 year away from UFA so he basically has a built in NTC right there. NO team outside the 5 he can OK is going to pay significantly more in assets to acquire a player they know they can't retain.  The 5 teams on that list are likely the ones willing to give you the best return anyway. 

 

I'm still a bit concerned about the AAV but i do think Gaudreau holds more value to the Flames to re sign than trade. I don't think the trade return would be fantastic. 

 

It seems that more calls are coming about Tkachuk.

Makes sense because he fits a need for 31 teams.

Unless it's a home run deal, I am inclined not to bother trading either.

[MP5029]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

It seems that more calls are coming about Tkachuk.

Makes sense because he fits a need for 31 teams.

Unless it's a home run deal, I am inclined not to bother trading either.

Exactly…well, maybe gudreau and Monahan in 3 years…Tkacuck in like 7..but for now they are young and talented enough to keep 

[robrob74]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Not really.  The problem is that we want a player that can impact the team in NA, but we send them to Stockton to adjust.

And they rot there.

Yelesin played a steady 4 games on the Flames and he was never a consideration.

I sometimes wonder if we are using Stockton as a way of teaching winning, so win at all costs.

What good is it to give a 30 year old Froese or Petrovic or 29 year old Buddy ice there?

Get them prepped for NHL call up?

 

Don't get me wrong, I like some of the things we have done there.  

Development of some of our young players.

But we fail to get some of them ready enough to be trusted in the NHL.

 

totally agree with this. I am surprised anyone at that level signs with Calgary. 
 

I get that players have to earn it, but at the same time, if they’re not put in a position to get experience in the situations of the game, they can’t develop to get better at that situational play. Is that what you’re getting at?

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

totally agree with this. I am surprised anyone at that level signs with Calgary. 
 

I get that players have to earn it, but at the same time, if they’re not put in a position to get experience in the situations of the game, they can’t develop to get better at that situational play. Is that what you’re getting at?

 

Well, using Froese as the leader and getting top minutes doesn't make sense to me.

A leader?  Sure.  Not in minutes.

We had a mess of D in the AHL over the last few years.

Depth not good enough to be full time NHL.

We reward a guy like Stone, but refuse to offer a "prospect" any games.

Never know if they have grown if you don't play them.

 

If you had to choose between developing a prospect and a career tweener in the AHL, which should you spend minutes on?

We waived Kylington and paid him squat to not play any minutes anywhere.

We paid Petrovic basically the same and used him about half the games.

[sak22]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

totally agree with this. I am surprised anyone at that level signs with Calgary. 

Because our track record is much worse than everyone else?  

[bosn111]

Sorry TD, you say we haven’t brought up prospect D in the past couple of years? What about Andersson and Valimaki? Both put in time in Stockton before moving up. Kylington also put in time in Stockton before coming up but couldn’t grab and hold a spot. Mackey has been paying his dues all season prior to a late call up and had put in time in college first. 
 

I would argue that prospects are getting shots at the team, whether they succeed or not depends on the player. The biggest problem for Kylington has been the LD depth with Giordano and Hanifin holding top 2 spots and then Valimaki has a higher ceiling. Would he have a full time spot on another team? Likely yes, but stylistically I would think Mackey is now ahead of Kylington due to being move defensive. 
 

We also are now waiting on Kuznetsov and Solovyov to see how they develop.

 

The big issue as you say is the lack of drafted depth. For years the Flames had too many drafted D over ripe in the AHL, such as Kulak etc. So the team stopped drafting D. But once moved on from, the D was now empty and they have filled by signing out of college and Europe to little success as none have been brought up to the NHL. This is similar to goalies though we tried bringing guys like Ramo over directly when drafted goalies weren’t developing and they were not able to carry the team.

 

Current prospects I expect to get chances at the big club over the next few years are in basic order 

 

Mackey

Ruzicka

Pelletier

Zary

Kuznetsov

Wolf

 

Those with a chance, but less likely 

 

Phillips

Tuulola

Pospisil

Pettersen

Duehr

Kinvall 

Lerby

Duehr

Solovyov

Parsons

 

I am leaving off most recent draft picks from this year as I don’t know what the team will look like in 3-4 years.

 

Unless the team trades for or starts drafting more D, I don’t see the situation changing in the near future. Graduating 2 D every 3 to 4 years is not a great average unless you already have a young, signed long term, quality D core. Flames are half that right now with Hanifin, Andersson and Valimaki. 
 

Tanev will need replacing in 2 - 5 years depending if they extend him. Still need another RD who will likely be of an age to be replaced in 5 - 6 years. Mackey, Kuznetsov and Solovyov will be competing to replace the 3rd LD (Kylington or someone else).

 

The thing is other than those few D, the Heat need to fill out the D somehow. Not sure what that will look like as Kuznetsov is still in University.

 

 I would like to see Mackey given a long look on 3rd pair, Sutter would have fits over such a young D. If they bring in a LD I would hope for Nemeth or McCabe, but a 1 or 2 year deal on Edler or Yandle would not be terrible for Kuznetsov to finish University and ripen a year in the AHL.

 

Anyways, not sure how to solve the prospects to NHL level if we don’t have many D draftees to start with.