2021 Calgary Flames NHL Draft

[travel_dude]

13 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Is Potato the new name?   I think we should be more worried about G and D, a lot of teams have centers and proceed to be aweful teams.   But yes we need C too.

 

I will concede, if there is a statistical tie-breaker between Jarvis and Coronato, it's that Coronato was drafted 10 months older.   But I wouldn't call this or anything else definitive, they both have incredibly high ceilings.    I don't know that the goalie debate is over yet though.   Wallstedt really dropped, Cossa didn't exactly rank out-rank either.   At least one of those two I feel may be the highlight of this draft a few years from now.   For a later discussion.

 

Tired of typing his name.

How about Covid?

Or Corona?

 

I have heard some suggestion that in a normal draft year (normal schedules and scouting) he would have gone top 5.

I'm just happy we didn't go for a safer pick.

 

Some suggestions about Wallstedt are that he's not suited for E/W hockey.

Don't know if I buy that.

Detroit got the big Galute.

In 5 years they might be wishing they went Wally.

 

Had we had a 2nd pick, I might have been higher on selecting a goalie, or perhaps a decent D-man.

The two goalies are long term project for the teams that selected them.

 

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Tired of typing his name.

How about Covid?

Or Corona?

 

I have heard some suggestion that in a normal draft year (normal schedules and scouting) he would have gone top 5.

I'm just happy we didn't go for a safer pick.

 

Some suggestions about Wallstedt are that he's not suited for E/W hockey.

Don't know if I buy that.

Detroit got the big Galute.

In 5 years they might be wishing they went Wally.

 

Had we had a 2nd pick, I might have been higher on selecting a goalie, or perhaps a decent D-man.

The two goalies are long term project for the teams that selected them.

 

 

It was a perfect year for that 2nd pick, I would have loved that too.

[travel_dude]

10 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

It was a perfect year for that 2nd pick, I would have loved that too.

Our 2 picks in the 2nd and 3rd are fine.

Would I have preferred other being picked?  Sure.

Doesn't make them wrong.

I wish we had had a second second.

There were others that went nearby that I would have liked to take a swing at.

So many dropped from the 1st.

Had we had 2, there was a better chance of picking one of them.

With only 1 pick, Stankoven, Chibrikov, and Raty would be considered big risks.

Tuolmaala could have been pick 1 and Stromgren pick 2.

[jjgallow]

On 7/15/2021 at 5:17 PM, The_People1 said:

If we pass on Wallstedt or Kent Johnson, then I'm going to be pretty pissed.  Luckily, I'm sure we won't get the opportunity.

 

THIS.

 

https://dobberprospects.com/2022/01/14/prospect-ramblings-could-jesper-wallstedt-be-the-next-henrik-lundqivst/

 

I take full credit for responding and saying we would get the opportunity because NHL teams Always screw up goaltenders at the draft.    

 

6 months later, and Wallstedt is looking off the charts good.

https://dobberprospects.com/2022/01/14/prospect-ramblings-could-jesper-wallstedt-be-the-next-henrik-lundqivst/

 

It was Such a simple, basic thing to draft him.   Best swedish goalie in a generation, almost NHL ready at draft time.   But he had a couple bad games in a shortened covid season and everyone lost their minds.

 

Now he is just destroying his whole draft class.

 

In a re-draft, would we take him now?  No we would not.  He'd be gone top 5.

[The_People1]

On 1/16/2022 at 5:28 PM, jjgallow said:

 

THIS.

 

https://dobberprospects.com/2022/01/14/prospect-ramblings-could-jesper-wallstedt-be-the-next-henrik-lundqivst/

 

I take full credit for responding and saying we would get the opportunity because NHL teams Always screw up goaltenders at the draft.    

 

6 months later, and Wallstedt is looking off the charts good.

https://dobberprospects.com/2022/01/14/prospect-ramblings-could-jesper-wallstedt-be-the-next-henrik-lundqivst/

 

It was Such a simple, basic thing to draft him.   Best swedish goalie in a generation, almost NHL ready at draft time.   But he had a couple bad games in a shortened covid season and everyone lost their minds.

 

Now he is just destroying his whole draft class.

 

In a re-draft, would we take him now?  No we would not.  He'd be gone top 5.

 

Only saving grace is we drafted a RHS RW...

 

But it's crazy how many teams passed on Wallstedt.  Teams just don't want to draft goalies because of short term mindset.  So, I mean, if we had a re-draft then i'm pretty sure we would pass on him again.  BT wants to win now.

[sak22]

6 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Only saving grace is we drafted a RHS RW...

 

But it's crazy how many teams passed on Wallstedt.  Teams just don't want to draft goalies because of short term mindset.  So, I mean, if we had a re-draft then i'm pretty sure we would pass on him again.  BT wants to win now.

I think a lot of teams would still go the same route at the moment.  Not sure many teams are looking at Kyle Watson's opinion when drafting.

[jjgallow]

50 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Only saving grace is we drafted a RHS RW...

 

But it's crazy how many teams passed on Wallstedt.  Teams just don't want to draft goalies because of short term mindset.  So, I mean, if we had a re-draft then i'm pretty sure we would pass on him again.  BT wants to win now.

 

Well, yeah...  you might be right lol.   I'd like to think not but you never know.   It's much more blatant now.

 

Best goalie in the world juniors, including those with an extra year,

 

Arguably the best goalie in the SHL right now.  Very likely undisputed by the end of the season at this rate.

 

I would not be shocked to see him making an impact in the NHL next year.   Not that is has to happen, but it could.   I'm not sure there's a player available  outside of the top 5 in a redraft who could have an impact sooner.

[conundrumed]

11 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Well, yeah...  you might be right lol.   I'd like to think not but you never know.   It's much more blatant now.

 

Best goalie in the world juniors, including those with an extra year,

 

Arguably the best goalie in the SHL right now.  Very likely undisputed by the end of the season at this rate.

 

I would not be shocked to see him making an impact in the NHL next year.   Not that is has to happen, but it could.   I'm not sure there's a player available  outside of the top 5 in a redraft who could have an impact sooner.

He definitely has the potential to be the next Strauss Mann.

[travel_dude]

13 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Well, yeah...  you might be right lol.   I'd like to think not but you never know.   It's much more blatant now.

 

Best goalie in the world juniors, including those with an extra year,

 

Arguably the best goalie in the SHL right now.  Very likely undisputed by the end of the season at this rate.

 

I would not be shocked to see him making an impact in the NHL next year.   Not that is has to happen, but it could.   I'm not sure there's a player available  outside of the top 5 in a redraft who could have an impact sooner.

 

What happened to Cossa?

[jjgallow]

6 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

What happened to Cossa?

 

No idea.  He wasn't the best rated goalie going into the draft and he doesn't seem to be one of the top 4 or 5 now.

 

But his stock sure rose  on the big day.

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

What happened to Cossa?

He's played the most games (25), has the most W's(18), is 5th in gaa (2.41) and 5th in sv% (.916).

I guess what I'm trying to say is he's total dirt and a poor excuse for a goalie.:)

[The_People1]

15 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Well, yeah...  you might be right lol.   I'd like to think not but you never know.   It's much more blatant now.

 

Best goalie in the world juniors, including those with an extra year,

 

Arguably the best goalie in the SHL right now.  Very likely undisputed by the end of the season at this rate.

 

I would not be shocked to see him making an impact in the NHL next year.   Not that is has to happen, but it could.   I'm not sure there's a player available  outside of the top 5 in a redraft who could have an impact sooner.

 

Goalies just rarely dominate the NHL at 20-years-old.  We will likely have to wait another 4 years to see the real Wallstedt in the NHL.  I'm interested to see the battle between Wallstedt and Cossa.  I was pretty high on Cossa too.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

He's played the most games (25), has the most W's(18), is 5th in gaa (2.41) and 5th in sv% (.916).

I guess what I'm trying to say is he's total dirt and a poor excuse for a goalie.:)

 

I was referring to JJ pumping him up as a target of the Flames.

Was supposed to be better than Wolf, at an earlier age.

Now his stats seem more pedestrian than last year's .941 and 1.57 GAA.

 

By no means am I saying he is crap.

If we had a 2nd 1st rounder last year and was available, it might have been a good option.

Same was true of Wallstedt.

Goalies are voodoo, so I'm not sure you pick one with your only 1st rounder.

Cossa could be another Koskinen and Wallstedt a Rittich.  Or a King Henrik.  Or a Pogge.

 

[robrob74]

36 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I was referring to JJ pumping him up as a target of the Flames.

Was supposed to be better than Wolf, at an earlier age.

Now his stats seem more pedestrian than last year's .941 and 1.57 GAA.

 

By no means am I saying he is crap.

If we had a 2nd 1st rounder last year and was available, it might have been a good option.

Same was true of Wallstedt.

Goalies are voodoo, so I'm not sure you pick one with your only 1st rounder.

Cossa could be another Koskinen and Wallstedt a Rittich.  Or a King Henrik.  Or a Pogge.

 

 

TB did good to pick their goalie in the 1st. It's an outlier but it is sometimes good to do it. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

TB did good to pick their goalie in the 1st. It's an outlier but it is sometimes good to do it. 

 

Have to be really lucky to find that stud goalie in the 1st round.

Lots available, but few ever get to that level.

Knight is not close.

He's been good in ECAC and tourneys but hasn't yet translated to NHL.

 

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I was referring to JJ pumping him up as a target of the Flames.

Was supposed to be better than Wolf, at an earlier age.

Now his stats seem more pedestrian than last year's .941 and 1.57 GAA.

 

By no means am I saying he is crap.

If we had a 2nd 1st rounder last year and was available, it might have been a good option.

Same was true of Wallstedt.

Goalies are voodoo, so I'm not sure you pick one with your only 1st rounder.

Cossa could be another Koskinen and Wallstedt a Rittich.  Or a King Henrik.  Or a Pogge.

 

 

Everything in the later rounds is voodoo and if that 's when you pick your goalies they will be voodoo.

 

Maybe I said something I don't remember, but I don't really recall pumping Cossa that hard, I know there was an arguement as to whether Wallstedt or Cossa was the way to go and I was very much on the Wallstedt side with the information we had at that time.  I have fully pumped Wallstedt and Askarov of recent years.    Even then, I don't think they have to both be slam dunks to justify the pumping of them.   If any one of them wins a handful of cups someday, then, that will be what matters.

 

I don't really understand how we can claim that goalies in the first round are risky when we mess up our first round picks annually anyway.    like when's the last time one made the NHL, 2017?    Been a key player?   Basically never except when we pick in the top 10 and their name isn't Bennett.   I just don't think we're in a position with our first round pick history to talk about how risky goalie picks are.   I very much doubt you'll find that's the case by running numbers on first round goalie successes/failures.

 

The thing to remember here isn't:  "Oh Cossa's clearly an example of why you don't pick goalies in the first".  

 

That's ridiculous.

 

The lesson here is "Wallstedt killing it, Askarov killing it, a Very high percentage of Stanley cup goalies were chosen in the first round, Coronato looking like a miss, Zary looking like a miss, Pelletier..let's see what happens after his covid bout, Valimaki..he's a miss in a redraft but at least we actually picked someone other than a forward and maybe the only half good thing we've done in the last 5 years.  

 

We are in No position to be snooty about picking non-forwards in the first round.

[rocketdoctor]

Hmm you were pumping Cossa real good after Wallestadt

[rocketdoctor]

On 3/27/2021 at 9:39 PM, jjgallow said:

 

 

"But that's not all".....you've got Sebastian Cossa too.   And this kid is crazy good.  Will go in first round.   That's right, two goaltending first rounders, legit.

 

 

 

 

[travel_dude]

31 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Everything in the later rounds is voodoo and if that 's when you pick your goalies they will be voodoo.

 

Maybe I said something I don't remember, but I don't really recall pumping Cossa that hard, I know there was an arguement as to whether Wallstedt or Cossa was the way to go and I was very much on the Wallstedt side with the information we had at that time.  I have fully pumped Wallstedt and Askarov of recent years.    Even then, I don't think they have to both be slam dunks to justify the pumping of them.   If any one of them wins a handful of cups someday, then, that will be what matters.

 

I don't really understand how we can claim that goalies in the first round are risky when we mess up our first round picks annually anyway.    like when's the last time one made the NHL, 2017?    Been a key player?   Basically never except when we pick in the top 10 and their name isn't Bennett.   I just don't think we're in a position with our first round pick history to talk about how risky goalie picks are.   I very much doubt you'll find that's the case by running numbers on first round goalie successes/failures.

 

The thing to remember here isn't:  "Oh Cossa's clearly an example of why you don't pick goalies in the first".  

 

That's ridiculous.

 

The lesson here is "Wallstedt killing it, Askarov killing it, a Very high percentage of Stanley cup goalies were chosen in the first round, Coronato looking like a miss, Zary looking like a miss, Pelletier..let's see what happens after his covid bout, Valimaki..he's a miss in a redraft but at least we actually picked someone other than a forward and maybe the only half good thing we've done in the last 5 years.  

 

We are in No position to be snooty about picking non-forwards in the first round.

 

First of all, I said goalies, not non-forwards.  Big difference isn't it.

Maybe Coronato was not the best pick, but the best D were off the board.

Ceulemans is tops in scoring on a 5th place team in the Big 10 - Div. 1 (5-8 record).

 

I get the hype for Askarov, but so far, as a 19 year old, he is trending in the wrong direction.

Button loves him.

Button loves Cossa.

Maybe Askarov will become the best goalie in the league, but he has a long way to prove that.

 

Please list all the goalies taken in the first round since 2012 that are NHL starters.

Vasilevskiy and Samsonov.

Any others?

[jjgallow]

34 minutes ago, rocketdoctor said:

 

 

If I make a prediction and the prediction becomes 100% true, is that pumping?  lol

 

Like honestly are you guys trying to say I'm too positive and I need to be more negative?  Is that what this is about lol

[jjgallow]

4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

First of all, I said goalies, not non-forwards.  Big difference isn't it.

Maybe Coronato was not the best pick, but the best D were off the board.

 

I haven't given up on Coronato yet, but we knew before the draft that the Flames needed to either:

1.  Draft a goalie

2.  Move up at least 1 spot

 

BT did neither and we have a thread about him not doing things.

 

4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Ceulemans is tops in scoring on a 5th place team in the Big 10 - Div. 1 (5-8 record).

 

Now there is a guy I Do remember pumping, even suggesting we take with our pick.   Or preferably, the plan was, acquire a mid round pick.

 

4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I get the hype for Askarov, but so far, as a 19 year old, he is trending in the wrong direction.

Button loves him.

Button loves Cossa.

Maybe Askarov will become the best goalie in the league, but he has a long way to prove that.

 

Please list all the goalies taken in the first round since 2012 that are NHL starters.

Vasilevskiy and Samsonov.

Any others?

 

Did we not already do this?  Honest question I can't remember anymore.   Did we not come to the conclusion that drafting first round goalies is more correlated with Stanley cups than drafting other players?   I am...relatively sure we figured that out.   Vasilevskiy and Samonov aren't exactly no big deal, and that is out of a Very small list of first round goalies.   Like most of those years didn't have Any.

 

Spencer Knight and Wallstedt both on the verge.

 

Even with those two, we are talking about enormously good odds at getting a starter.  Way, way higher than getting a first-line forward/D.

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I haven't given up on Coronato yet, but we knew before the draft that the Flames needed to either:

1.  Draft a goalie

2.  Move up at least 1 spot

 

BT did neither and we have a thread about him not doing things.

 

 

Now there is a guy I Do remember pumping, even suggesting we take with our pick.   Or preferably, the plan was, acquire a mid round pick.

 

 

Did we not already do this?  Honest question I can't remember anymore.   Did we not come to the conclusion that drafting first round goalies is more correlated with Stanley cups than drafting other players?   I am...relatively sure we figured that out.   Vasilevskiy and Samonov aren't exactly no big deal, and that is out of a Very small list of first round goalies.   Like most of those years didn't have Any.

 

Spencer Knight and Wallstedt both on the verge.

 

Even with those two, we are talking about enormously good odds at getting a starter.  Way, way higher than getting a first-line forward/D.

 

Yeah, that's a pretty lofty projection.

 

Let me put it another way regarding drafting goalies in the first round.

Other than Tampa, what goalie drafted in the 1st round has won a cup in the last 10 year?

Spoiler alert, Rask didn't play in the playoffs at all in 2011.

[jjgallow]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Yeah, that's a pretty lofty projection.

 

Let me put it another way regarding drafting goalies in the first round.

Other than Tampa, what goalie drafted in the 1st round has won a cup in the last 10 year?

Spoiler alert, Rask didn't play in the playoffs at all in 2011.

 

We've definitely done this like twice before, probably all archived now.

 

MAF.   Put another way 4 out of the last 10 cups were won by goalies drafted in the first round.  Which, when you run the numbers, and how rare first round goalies are....is Astronomically high.

 

So then we usually debate the legitimacy of MAF, etc, and then we debate some goalies who were just one or two spots out of the first round but won,  etcetera, and how it was unfair that Chicago and Tampa won, etcetera, etcetera, and how the last 10 years was an exception, blah.  blah.

 

Goalie drafting is getting better.   Not all the team have figured that out.

[travel_dude]

18 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

MAF.   Put another way 4 out of the last 10 cups were won by goalies drafted in the first round.  Which, when you run the numbers, and how rare first round goalies are....is Astronomically high.

 

Murray played a bigger part in those last two cups.

Fleury didn't play the finals in either.

The first cup, yeah he was enough to get the wins.

 

So, no not 4 of the last 10

[Horsman1]

On 1/17/2022 at 5:57 PM, The_People1 said:

 

Only saving grace is we drafted a RHS ed it.. got it..dont want it...RW...

 

But it's crazy how many teams passed on Wallstedt.  Teams just don't want to draft goalies because of short term mindset.  So, I mean, if we had a re-draft then i'm pretty sure we wou pass on him again.  BT wants to win now.

treliving  will never win a cup.. He doesn't have the ability to construct a team.. he collects hockey players like I used to collect hockey cards..... got it  got it,, dont have it.. got it.. got it.... need it.. got it.. dont want it..