cross16 Posted January 12, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2021 As i suspected all 3 players cleared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 12, 2021 Report Share Posted January 12, 2021 9 minutes ago, lou44291 said: I also question why it took Kyl so long to sign as an RFA and arrive in Calgary... given the times, the writing seemed to be on the wall what would happen for a long time. He could've looked at Mangiapane's situation last season for reference, and COVID wasn't even a thing at that time! Kyl and his agent held out too long IMO. And I like the player. What I took from BT's comments over time was that they hadn;t been talking. Mangiapane was a bigger issue to deal with. And the UFA's they wanted to sign, including Nesterov. It may have been Kyl's agent holding out for 1-way, or BT was trying to finalize everything else and only had exactly enough to sign him as such and did so Dec, 16th. I don't pretend to know the immigration rules, but I don't think he could stay here or come back without a contract in place. Anyway, he cleared, so it's just a question of whether they use him as the 7th D, or put him on the taxi squad for 30 days and save some cash. Rotate him in when they feel like it. Send him to Stockton for the year. Other than playing it safe on game nights after 5pm, there is no reason to carry a 7th D on the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zima Posted January 12, 2021 Report Share Posted January 12, 2021 I thiink it is all up to Kyl don't you? If he hasn't made some progression from last yr and if Mackey a better upside better player all around then I C Kyl back on the Farm. It is disappointing but as we know it is a business and its all about the best player and Mackey has played college Hockey so he is close to NHL quality perhaps no NHL experience compered to Kyl but you would think Kyl should be miles ahead of Mackey and it was Kyl who went on waivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted January 12, 2021 Report Share Posted January 12, 2021 2 hours ago, travel_dude said: What I took from BT's comments over time was that they hadn;t been talking. Mangiapane was a bigger issue to deal with. And the UFA's they wanted to sign, including Nesterov. It may have been Kyl's agent holding out for 1-way, or BT was trying to finalize everything else and only had exactly enough to sign him as such and did so Dec, 16th. I don't pretend to know the immigration rules, but I don't think he could stay here or come back without a contract in place. Anyway, he cleared, so it's just a question of whether they use him as the 7th D, or put him on the taxi squad for 30 days and save some cash. Rotate him in when they feel like it. Send him to Stockton for the year. Other than playing it safe on game nights after 5pm, there is no reason to carry a 7th D on the roster. The nice thing with the taxi squad is that the team really has no need to carry a 7th defenseman on the active roster. I think the biggest with Kylington not signing till the last minute is that he couldn't be loaned to a team in Sweden, so he hasn't been playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted January 12, 2021 Report Share Posted January 12, 2021 6 hours ago, rocketdoctor said: Think a lot of you are missing the point of the Ryan waiver. BT is making use of the taxi squad to accrue cap space over the season. Placing Ryan on taxi squad makes perfect sense. ".....you can only bury a maximum of $1.075 million of his contract, the Flames’ cap benefit for sending him to the taxi squad between games would be $1.075 million divided again by 116. That amounts to $9,267 a day" from Hailey Salvian's excellent piece in The Atheletic - on how the Flames could save 72k of cap spce in 5 days. Moving Dube & Valimaki, as waiver expempt, back and forth to the taxi squad would also accrue the Flames cap space but unlike Ryan they are on a 2 way contract they would therefore be paid AHL money when on the Taxi squad and they may not like that!!! I don’t think we are missing the point. I think we are just having a hypothetical discussion and debating on the merits of him being placed on waivers and the possibility that he’s claimed. Do I think he will get claimed? Most likely he won’t be. I am just justifying reasons he might be somewhat expendable, the positive side of losing him. Am I denying his positives? It sounds like I am, but I understand that he’s really good for the team, yet at the same time just pointing out the lack of development beyond top2Cs and finding time for our young C’s to play there to get the experience. I think we are seeing how it is like for someone to get used to playing C again in Lindholm. He is valuable on the RW too, but might bring more to the table as a C. Either way, I think they need to keep him with Tkachuk. Ryan, I’d like to see shift to RW and play on Bennett’s line and start mentoring him. They can both take draws, and before Bennett’s injury he was ok at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 12, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2021 Discussion is always nice but this really boils down to a simple plan. Flames need to create as much cap space as they can, especially early on, and really the only tool they have is manipulating the roster size and the taxi squad. Ryan was the only player who could go on waivers, would clear waivers and actually provide relief if used on the taxi squad. I think it's clear the Flames will use 6 D and put everyone else on the taxi squad. Mackay does not require waivers so he didn't need to be waived yesterday but Kylington did. While i would not disagree that it's likely the Flames view Mackay more positively than Kylington, i don't think that's a conclusion we can make based on yesterday. This is really all just procedural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 12, 2021 Report Share Posted January 12, 2021 11 minutes ago, JTech780 said: The nice thing with the taxi squad is that the team really has no need to carry a 7th defenseman on the active roster. I think the biggest with Kylington not signing till the last minute is that he couldn't be loaned to a team in Sweden, so he hasn't been playing. I am expecting they only carry 6D, and maybe even just 12F. I would not be surprised to see Ryan on the taxi squad not just for days off. I don't think Norstrom is better, but they have 4C at present. Ryan is a better C than winger, but they have Bennett right now. As much as they chose to waive Kylington to save cap, they may also do the exact same with Dube and Valimaki. Have one on the taxi squad off nights. But the logistics of that is more difficult due to needing bodies for injury replacement. 2 skaters + Ryan + Rinaldo + Kylington + Domingue doesn't really give you much depth if one of the two spots is used for Dube or Valimaki. In fact, I wish they would use a player other than Rinaldo; maybe one that has a higher ceiling? To be honest, I hate being this close to the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted January 12, 2021 Report Share Posted January 12, 2021 12 minutes ago, travel_dude said: I am expecting they only carry 6D, and maybe even just 12F. I would not be surprised to see Ryan on the taxi squad not just for days off. I don't think Norstrom is better, but they have 4C at present. Ryan is a better C than winger, but they have Bennett right now. As much as they chose to waive Kylington to save cap, they may also do the exact same with Dube and Valimaki. Have one on the taxi squad off nights. But the logistics of that is more difficult due to needing bodies for injury replacement. 2 skaters + Ryan + Rinaldo + Kylington + Domingue doesn't really give you much depth if one of the two spots is used for Dube or Valimaki. In fact, I wish they would use a player other than Rinaldo; maybe one that has a higher ceiling? To be honest, I hate being this close to the cap. I hope they sign Ritchie for the taxi squad as I think he is an upgrade on Rinaldo. The one thing about Rinaldo is that he actually seems really good in the room, so to have him on the taxi isn't the worst thing either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 12, 2021 Report Share Posted January 12, 2021 33 minutes ago, JTech780 said: I hope they sign Ritchie for the taxi squad as I think he is an upgrade on Rinaldo. The one thing about Rinaldo is that he actually seems really good in the room, so to have him on the taxi isn't the worst thing either. Forgot about the PTO's. Stone should not be here. Ritchie should be ahead of RInaldo for sure. Ahead of Robinson too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said: Well, that warms my heart. As recnt as a week or so ago, the media kool-ade drinkers were saying how great it was that Neal was back. He scored two goals. Would bring more bottom 6 scoring. Bla bla bla. Maybe there's a chance that some team with cap space takes on this Stupid Deal James Neal. I can't believe any team would look at the lack of depth of the Oilers and wonder why they won't even keep him. Would have made more sense to waive Kassian, but I guess he's injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted February 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 They took a ton of flak for it but boy did the flames ever make the right call there. Sometimes best to just admit your mistake and move on. this is just a taxi squad move but given the Oilers are already in LTIR I don’t see how they will get a cap benefit for this. edit: looks like roster flexibility move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 13, 2021 Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 hour ago, cross16 said: They took a ton of flak for it but boy did the flames ever make the right call there. Sometimes best to just admit your mistake and move on. this is just a taxi squad move but given the Oilers are already in LTIR I don’t see how they will get a cap benefit for this. edit: looks like roster flexibility move. Leave it to Gregor to spin it to sound like Holland is a genious. Considering that Neal is on for more goals against, and the coach has talked about that even with 2g in one game, it's getting him off the roster. Little chance of him being claimed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted February 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2021 Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see this blow on up on the Oilers but the odds that they want him off the roster is small. they would just be creating a problem. guess we’ll see but it makes sense this is just about putting him on the taxi squad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP5029 Posted February 14, 2021 Report Share Posted February 14, 2021 Can someone please remind me why Lucic can’t be waived or bought out again? I remember there was something about his contract that made it pretty much buyout proof but any reason why he can’t be waived and possibly burry him in the minors to clear some Cap space? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABC923 Posted February 14, 2021 Report Share Posted February 14, 2021 13 minutes ago, MP5029 said: Can someone please remind me why Lucic can’t be waived or bought out again? I remember there was something about his contract that made it pretty much buyout proof but any reason why he can’t be waived and possibly burry him in the minors to clear some Cap space? He can be waived, but his contract has been called buyout proof. This is because a large portion of his pay is in the form of signing bonuses. When you buyout a contract, you take the base pay remaining on the contract (excluding signing bonuses) and multiply that number by 2/3. That is the cost of buying out that contract. That amount is then spread out over double the remaining length on the contract. So for Lucic, after this season he makes a base salary of 2.5 million next year and 1 million the year after, for a total of 3.5 million. 2/3 of that is 2.33 million roughly. So that’s the cost of the buyout. We then spread that number over 4 seasons since there’s only 2 years remaining. So the buyout cost is around 588k per year. To calculate the cap hit then, we take the base salary that player would have earned and subtract this number. So next season, when Lucic’s base salary is 2.5 million, his cap hit would be reduced by about 1.9 million. The following season, when his base pay is 1 million, the cap hit is reduced by less than 500k. So the cap savings are not very much (especially in the last year), making it a contract not worth buying out. in short, Lucic had a front loaded contract with a lot of signing bonus money (which is unaffected by buyouts), leading to a situation where buying out his contract costs more cap space (once you replace him with a different player) than simply riding out his contract. Hence, buyout proof. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted February 14, 2021 Report Share Posted February 14, 2021 4 hours ago, cross16 said: Don’t get me wrong I’d love to see this blow on up on the Oilers but the odds that they want him off the roster is small. they would just be creating a problem. guess we’ll see but it makes sense this is just about putting him on the taxi squad There is zero chance of it happening but if another team claimed Neil it would be a problem the Coilers would accept every day of the week over the next 3 years. Second best scenario is taxi squad. Please, please nobody claim him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobieit Posted February 14, 2021 Report Share Posted February 14, 2021 1 hour ago, MP5029 said: Can someone please remind me why Lucic can’t be waived or bought out again? I remember there was something about his contract that made it pretty much buyout proof but any reason why he can’t be waived and possibly burry him in the minors to clear some Cap space? The reason he can’t be put on the taxi squad is simply because his contact comes with a no movement clause... means he cannot be placed on waivers without his permission and getting placed on the taxi squad requires waivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP5029 Posted February 14, 2021 Report Share Posted February 14, 2021 8 hours ago, ABC923 said: He can be waived, but his contract has been called buyout proof. This is because a large portion of his pay is in the form of signing bonuses. When you buyout a contract, you take the base pay remaining on the contract (excluding signing bonuses) and multiply that number by 2/3. That is the cost of buying out that contract. That amount is then spread out over double the remaining length on the contract. So for Lucic, after this season he makes a base salary of 2.5 million next year and 1 million the year after, for a total of 3.5 million. 2/3 of that is 2.33 million roughly. So that’s the cost of the buyout. We then spread that number over 4 seasons since there’s only 2 years remaining. So the buyout cost is around 588k per year. To calculate the cap hit then, we take the base salary that player would have earned and subtract this number. So next season, when Lucic’s base salary is 2.5 million, his cap hit would be reduced by about 1.9 million. The following season, when his base pay is 1 million, the cap hit is reduced by less than 500k. So the cap savings are not very much (especially in the last year), making it a contract not worth buying out. in short, Lucic had a front loaded contract with a lot of signing bonus money (which is unaffected by buyouts), leading to a situation where buying out his contract costs more cap space (once you replace him with a different player) than simply riding out his contract. Hence, buyout proof. Awesome thanks for that 😊👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP5029 Posted February 14, 2021 Report Share Posted February 14, 2021 7 hours ago, Sobieit said: The reason he can’t be put on the taxi squad is simply because his contact comes with a no movement clause... means he cannot be placed on waivers without his permission and getting placed on the taxi squad requires waivers. And thanks for this too...it’s sucks that he can be but thanks for the info 😊😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted February 14, 2021 Report Share Posted February 14, 2021 Some interesting names on waivers today. We don't have cap space for Byron or Dekeyser. Galchenyuk makes some sense if Backlund is out for any length of time, give him a chance in a pure offensive role with Gaudreau and Monahan while Bennett centers the 3rd line. Carlsson is a 6'5" 24 year old left shot defenseman who is a former 1st rounder, I don't really see a spot for him but getting a defenseman with some size would exactly hurt this team either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted February 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2021 I agree on Galchenyuk. If backs is going to be out anything more than a couple weeks I’d put in a claim. The can put him back on the taxi squad when everyone is healthy. not really interested in anyone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 14, 2021 Report Share Posted February 14, 2021 52 minutes ago, JTech780 said: Some interesting names on waivers today. We don't have cap space for Byron or Dekeyser. Galchenyuk makes some sense if Backlund is out for any length of time, give him a chance in a pure offensive role with Gaudreau and Monahan while Bennett centers the 3rd line. Carlsson is a 6'5" 24 year old left shot defenseman who is a former 1st rounder, I don't really see a spot for him but getting a defenseman with some size would exactly hurt this team either. Interesting. I thought we should have gotten Galc before now, but this seems like the right time. I don't know the best way to use him in the lineup, though. Mangiapane is the best player we have for positive impact. Our 4th line is a wasteland. Not that I think Froese is that bad, but I don't think he's done anything really worth keeping him in the lineup for. 3rd line without Backlund was not effective. Tkachuk a shadow of himself. This isn't in relation to the no-show game in VAN, but I would like to see the following as an alternative. Tkachuk-Lindholm-Mangiapane Gaudreau-Monahan-Dube Lucic-Bennett-Galchenyuk Nordstrom-Gawdin-Leivo Maybe swap in Ritchie for Nordstrom. I honestly don't see much from Nordstrom on the offensive side to justify playing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABC923 Posted February 14, 2021 Report Share Posted February 14, 2021 Galy’s a bit of a risk. He’s always been a defensive black hole, and his offence has been declining since he left Mtl. He’s been healthy scratch in Ottawa this season, and Carolina just acquired him and seem to have no interest in playing him. To top it off, if he has already left Canada for Carolina (he probably hasn’t, but it’s possible), he would need to quarantine for two weeks before becoming available to play. All that said, his whole contract can be buried if needed, so cap concerns are minimal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 14, 2021 Report Share Posted February 14, 2021 Quarantine - he's a non-roster player at worst for 14 days. Defensive hole - hard to say when coming from a team like Ottawa. I hope I am wrong but I don't see BT making the claim. He's not a career AHL guy, so he doesn't belong in the lineup. He's not ready for the scrap heap yet, so too soon to bring him in. Claiming him admits something is wrong with the other signings like Stone, Ritchie, Norstrom and Simon. Even though only one of them currently is on the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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