Calgary Flames 20/21 Roster and Lines

[JTech780]

8 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I thought Ritchie dragged down that line last night IMO. I thought the puck died on his stick and he really struggles to keep the play going north which means you are essentially cutting off half the ice for that line. Monahan already goes to the net so IMO that line will flourish with someone who can either be able to accept rims around the zone, or go and get the cross ice dumps from Gaudreau. I think they need to spread the ice out to let Johnny work. 

 

They were the only line that did not hold their own at ES and were under water in ever category. 

 

I'd rather move Valimaki to the RS and acquire a physical LS dman. I think Valimaki looks really natural on the RS and I think it really plays to his ability to see the ice and make passes. Would likely open up options if they wanted to go the trade route too. I'd just run Kylington-Valimaki for a while if it were me, but I get where you are coming from. 

 

Yeah another name I have been thinking for the 3rd pair was Jamie Oleksiak. I was impressed with his play in the playoffs against Calgary, and I think he would fit as that physical 3rd pairing guy.

[JTech780]

 

[cross16]

Was just about to post the same thing. 

 

This would scream special teams to me and perhaps Bennett becomes a primary penalty killer. I think there is some intriguing potential there. 

[JTech780]

It sure sounds like Bennett is going to be a Sutter favorite going forward. Last night was the most confident I have seen him in a long time.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

Yeah another name I have been thinking for the 3rd pair was Jamie Oleksiak. I was impressed with his play in the playoffs against Calgary, and I think he would fit as that physical 3rd pairing guy.

 

JO would be a welcome sight on this team because of his size.  Was also impressed with him, though it was him that knocked Tkachuk out of the playoffs.  

The one name I keep coming back to is Dunne.  Not a huge guy, but I was impressed with his play in the SC 2 seasons ago.  I think STL is in tough to re-sign everyone.  Should not be that expensive to get in trade.  Pending RFA with arbitration rights, but I don't think he commands a big payday that way.

 

He's not a top pairing guy, but would be ideal to bridge the gap with Gio's play starting to decline.  Not sure what we would need to send the other way, but it might have to be a Nesterov or Kylington and something interesting.

 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

 

I laughed last night when I saw Bennett make a bad play that gave away the puck.  You could hear him clearly say Aw, "shucks".  LOL

He knew as soon as he touched the puck what he did wrong.

He also didn't sulk.  

 

You need guys that can do things when other players are not feeling it.  I like that Sutter is giving him some hope and goals to achieve.  Only took how many coaches to figure him out?  Work in progress of course, but guys having some confidence or knowing where they fit in the grand plan does motivate them to play better.

 

[Heartbreaker]

I could never figure out why Sam was so rarely used on the PK. He seemed like an obvious choice to me. This should not be a revelation. Plus, it might take a few hard minutes away from Lindholm and Backlund, and I think that will help them as well.

Love.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, Heartbreaker said:

I could never figure out why Sam was so rarely used on the PK. He seemed like an obvious choice to me. This should not be a revelation. Plus, it might take a few hard minutes away from Lindholm and Backlund, and I think that will help them as well.

Love.

 

I thnk that part of Sam's game was missing some details.  You don't put him on a PK if he just finished a lazy shift.

I say lazy if he didn't backcheck or hooked a guy becuase he lost the player or was begind the play.

But, I will say this.  Not every guy getting PK or PP minutes was 100% deserving either.

 

Sutter mentioned in passing that the 4th line was out there possibly becuase he couldn;t use another line (or player).

Since we were not chasing, there isn;t a reason to overuse Monahan and Gaudreau + Ritchie.

Since we had a lead, you go with Lindholm or Backlund.

Lucic and Tkachuk and Dube played less in the 3rd than the 2nd.

Mangiapane one shift less,

Backlund and Lindholm remained about the same as the 2nd.

Gaudreau and Monahan, maybe one less shift.

PK accounts for Backlund and Lindholm having a bit more time, plus penalty took away time from Mangiapane.

 

What does that tell you.  Not a lot.  Daryll being Daryll.

He was mostly just rolling 4 lines.

 

[JTech780]

 

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

 

I think it was obvious with him skating with Stone that he was out.

Not sure that Kylington with Valimaki is the greatest combo, but I think they are less risk together than Nesterov was.

 

I know it's early, but I think we won't see a change to #2RW yet.  Ritchie ia only going to play so many minutes, so you have a fill in on that line.  Whoever is going that night.  Could have been Leivo if it was like last game.  Or Mangiapane.  I tend to think it's less likely that Bennett plays there, just because that's not the role they have defined for him right now.  More to the fact is that he's going to be used at C or LW.  He might get some PP time.

[robrob74]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

I think it was obvious with him skating with Stone that he was out.

Not sure that Kylington with Valimaki is the greatest combo, but I think they are less risk together than Nesterov was.

 

I know it's early, but I think we won't see a change to #2RW yet.  Ritchie ia only going to play so many minutes, so you have a fill in on that line.  Whoever is going that night.  Could have been Leivo if it was like last game.  Or Mangiapane.  I tend to think it's less likely that Bennett plays there, just because that's not the role they have defined for him right now.  More to the fact is that he's going to be used at C or LW.  He might get some PP time.

 

 Some thing they were talking about on the Fan was how all these players might deserve to play up the lineup. I say why? If it’s going good for them, players like Leivo and others of that kind, why not keep things that are going good going? 

 

when the 4th is playing well, they’re probably going to be playing the other team’s 3rd or 4th lines. That’s a good match up. Backlund and Lindholm lines will play the other team’s 1st and 2nd lines, and Monahan will then play 3rd or 4th lines, so why not try take advantage of having some decent energy mixed in with skill? 
 

the biggest problem I see is monahans line getting out worked because they are playing against lines that are typically harder working. But then, they should have the better skill.

[travel_dude]

51 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Some thing they were talking about on the Fan was how all these players might deserve to play up the lineup. I say why? If it’s going good for them, players like Leivo and others of that kind, why not keep things that are going good going? 

 

when the 4th is playing well, they’re probably going to be playing the other team’s 3rd or 4th lines. That’s a good match up. Backlund and Lindholm lines will play the other team’s 1st and 2nd lines, and Monahan will then play 3rd or 4th lines, so why not try take advantage of having some decent energy mixed in with skill? 

 

At home, we have the luxury of playing whomever we want in any setting.

Leivo may have earned a bump. but lets see how things go.

A strong 4th line is important too.

We don't have a bonafide 2RW really.

 

Short of promoting Phillips or a trade, I don't know we can ice 4 lines and expect all 4 to have the effectiveness we see at times.

It's going to be one line that suffers from having a lesser player.

Maybe it's JH's line or Tkachuk's or Backlund's or Bennett's.

 

[cross16]

This matches the  eye test for me. I don't think Gaudreau-Monahan have struggled under Sutter they just haven't thrived but for me a big part of that is Ritchie. Nothing against him as he has been what you want him to be, that role is just not a good fit alongside 2 of your best offensive players. 

 

I don't think you can break up Hanifin-Tanev, they've just been too good. I'd like to see Valimaki-Andersson but given how much praise Sutter has for Gio so far I'm suspecting we won't see a change in the short term. 

 

 

[travel_dude]

14 minutes ago, cross16 said:

This matches the  eye test for me. I don't think Gaudreau-Monahan have struggled under Sutter they just haven't thrived but for me a big part of that is Ritchie. Nothing against him as he has been what you want him to be, that role is just not a good fit alongside 2 of your best offensive players. 

 

I don't think you can break up Hanifin-Tanev, they've just been too good. I'd like to see Valimaki-Andersson but given how much praise Sutter has for Gio so far I'm suspecting we won't see a change in the short term. 

 

Regarding Gio-Ras, I think the issue may just be style.  Neither is that good a skater, and can get burned on transition.  If you look at minutes played, Gio and Andersson are more likely to get extra minutes on special teams.  That's fine, but shouldn't dictate whop they play with 5v5.  I would like to see Gio with Kylington, because let's face it Gio is pretty good at positioning and defensive play, while Kylington adds that speed to the pair.  

 

I'm with you on the Gaudreau line with Ritchie.  It's turning a possession and attack line to a dump and recover line.  That's fine for a 4th line that builds offense through heavy forecheck, but seems to work against Gaudreau's and Monahan's strength.  Especially Gaudreau.  I mean there's no reason why Gaudreau and Monahan can't improve their forechecking, but it's not to their strengths.

 

[LouCifer]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I've been pleasantly surprised with Ritchie, and he does also have the ability to put the puck in the net (got 16 goals with Dallas a few years back). Maybe playing with Mony and JH will re-ignite that ability, and I say it's worth giving it some more time to see if their chemistry grows. JH, by my eye, looks less "scared" out there, and Mony had no problem roughing it up in front of the Oiler net (all by himself) last game. I think It's working right now for the team, and I'd like to see how it progresses.  

 

And, as much as I see Leivo progressing with his play, he does create a mismatch for other teams and advantage for us playing on the "4th line". He's a scoring threat there with Ryan and Benny and that may turn out to be very advantageous for us. 

 

I am on-board with the idea of trying Ras with Valimaki and Gio with Kyller. Tan-ifin shouldnt be touched - ever. 

[CheersMan]

1 hour ago, lou44291 said:

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I've been pleasantly surprised with Ritchie, and he does also have the ability to put the puck in the net (got 16 goals with Dallas a few years back). Maybe playing with Mony and JH will re-ignite that ability, and I say it's worth giving it some more time to see if their chemistry grows. JH, by my eye, looks less "scared" out there, and Mony had no problem roughing it up in front of the Oiler net (all by himself) last game. I think It's working right now for the team, and I'd like to see how it progresses.  

 

And, as much as I see Leivo progressing with his play, he does create a mismatch for other teams and advantage for us playing on the "4th line". He's a scoring threat there with Ryan and Benny and that may turn out to be very advantageous for us. 

 

I am on-board with the idea of trying Ras with Valimaki and Gio with Kyller. Tan-ifin shouldnt be touched - ever. 

Yeah, I'm not moving Richie either. He has been noticeable in the line-up (in good ways) since given the opportunity to play a few weeks back. He can skate, he is physical and he can finish. Gotta think he is one of Darryl's favs atm, lets hope he can keep it up.

[JTech780]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

This matches the  eye test for me. I don't think Gaudreau-Monahan have struggled under Sutter they just haven't thrived but for me a big part of that is Ritchie. Nothing against him as he has been what you want him to be, that role is just not a good fit alongside 2 of your best offensive players. 

 

I don't think you can break up Hanifin-Tanev, they've just been too good. I'd like to see Valimaki-Andersson but given how much praise Sutter has for Gio so far I'm suspecting we won't see a change in the short term. 

 

 

 

See I haven't had an issue with Ritchie, I thought he has been very good on the forecheck. One thing to consider is that that line has been getting the least amount of offensive zone starts. Meanwhile the Backlund line has been getting the most offensive zone starts, not sure I understand the thinking there.

 

The thing for me is that it is pretty obvious that Sutter wants to be a dump and chase team, and at first I hated the idea, but the more I have thought about it  the more I am fine with it. Being a carry team is fine in the regular season, but when things get tighter down the stretch and in the playoffs teams are going to force you to dump and chase more, so you better be able to adapt. Calgary hasn't been able to adapt in previous years, so far under Sutter they have done a good job and the more they do it now the less they will have to adapt when the playoffs roll around.

 

Since they are going to be a dump and chase team, I don't think they can keep Gaudreau and Monahan together, neither of them are any good at retrieving pucks. 

 

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk

Gives Gaudreau lots of talent to work with, Tkachuk and Lindholm are great at retrieving pucks, putting Tkachuk and Gaudreau together might rejuvenate Tkachuk.

 

Dube-Monahan-Mangiapane

Dube and Mangiapane add a lot pace and tenacity to the more methodical Monahan. Let the wingers go dig out the pucks for Monahan.

 

Lucic-Backlund-Leivo

Not too sure if Leivo is the best fit on this line, could go Bennett or Ritchie in this spot as well.

 

Bennett-Ryan-Ritchie

[The_People1]

No offense to Ritchie but he is a good 3rd/4th liner.  He can't keep up with Gaudreau.  I get he brings physicality to that line but he's no Ferland.  He just doesn't have the skills, vision, awareness, etc.

 

But who else do we play there?  I mean this has been a failure we saw since the end of last season (and well before that even).  Leivo looks the best but the numbers aren't there to prove it.  Simon didn't work out.  Robinson isn't NHL material.  Bennett is a better LW/C than a RW.  Mangiapane doesn't like to play RW.  Dube is needed for the other line.  Now that we've ended with Ritchie as the best option, it's facepalms all around.

[cross16]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

No offense to Ritchie but he is a good 3rd/4th liner.  He can't keep up with Gaudreau.  I get he brings physicality to that line but he's no Ferland.  He just doesn't have the skills, vision, awareness, etc.

 

But who else do we play there?  I mean this has been a failure we saw since the end of last season (and well before that even).  Leivo looks the best but the numbers aren't there to prove it.  Simon didn't work out.  Robinson isn't NHL material.  Bennett is a better LW/C than a RW.  Mangiapane doesn't like to play RW.  Dube is needed for the other line.  Now that we've ended with Ritchie as the best option, it's facepalms all around.

 

Yup this, was just typing the same thing. i have no problem with Ritchie he is playing his role well. The problem is not with the player they problem is that role is not well suited to a top 6 role with 2 of your best offensive players. He is dragging down that line because he is no help in transition and while yes he can dig pucks out and get involved in the forecheck he really creates nothing out of it (unless it's a hit that leads to a turnover), he isn't going to make a play off of it and when they try and get the cycle game going the puck just dies on his stick. In a 4th line energy role Ritchie would be awesome, he's just miss cast right now. 

 

I would swap him and Leivo if it were me. The underlying numbers of Gaudreau-Monahan-leivo were very good and I think the Flames just went away from it too quick. Now that Leivo has some confidence back I think that line could thrive and putting Ritchie with Bennett-Ryan provides a nice energy line too. 

[CheersMan]

19 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

No offense to Ritchie but he is a good 3rd/4th liner.  He can't keep up with Gaudreau.  I get he brings physicality to that line but he's no Ferland.  He just doesn't have the skills, vision, awareness, etc.

 

But who else do we play there?  I mean this has been a failure we saw since the end of last season (and well before that even).  Leivo looks the best but the numbers aren't there to prove it.  Simon didn't work out.  Robinson isn't NHL material.  Bennett is a better LW/C than a RW.  Mangiapane doesn't like to play RW.  Dube is needed for the other line.  Now that we've ended with Ritchie as the best option, it's facepalms all around.

Maybe after the facepalms are lowered, JG and SM can look in the mirror to find a solution to their game.

Sounds similar to the SB excesses we have been hearing for years, no one to play with....rubbish.

[The_People1]

And about Ritchie, he's been a beast out there.  He's surprisingly fast for his size and that speed helps to get in on the forechecks.  It's something we've been missing since Hathaway and Ferland.  He's not afraid to hit and throw his weight around.

 

He is what we wished Zac Rinaldo would become but never did.  A physical intimidation and willing to initiate things.  Even Lucic isn't as energetic about that role.  And to add, Ritchie is RHS.  

 

That right hand he landed in Khaira sent a message across the league you can't take runs at our players without answering.  For that plus everything else he brings, I think we should consider keeping him longer term.

[The_People1]

4 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

Maybe after the facepalms are lowered, JG and SM can look in the mirror to find a solution to their game.

Sounds similar to the SB excesses we have been hearing for years, no one to play with....rubbish.

 

I'm okay trading away both of them.

[sak22]

31 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

Maybe after the facepalms are lowered, JG and SM can look in the mirror to find a solution to their game.

Sounds similar to the SB excesses we have been hearing for years, no one to play with....rubbish.

Or maybe instead of always searching for the third wheel on that line, make those two non-mutually inclusive, but that is a concept that no coach has ever thought of.

[CheersMan]

28 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

I'm okay trading away both of them.

For a RHS RW ?

 

2 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Or maybe instead of always searching for the third wheel on that line, make those two non-mutually inclusive, but that is a concept that no coach has ever thought of.

SM would not have 200+ goals without JG and JG would not have hit 90pts without SM, they complement one another for the most part.

[The_People1]

15 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

For a RHS RW ?

 

Close.  For Eichel.