cross16 Posted August 29, 2019 Report Share Posted August 29, 2019 Few tidbits from a recent interview with Peters - Lucic will see some time with Johnny/Mony especially if game get physical (yuck....) - Lucic in phenomenal shape (typical coaches speak) - Lucic at his best when playing with a RH center. Sees him probably playing with Ryan a fair bit but would need to move a LS to RW. Said he could see Mangiapane's speed playing well with Lucic. So sounds like Lucic - Ryan - Mangiapane is how he will start. I like many elements and ideas behind that line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted August 29, 2019 Report Share Posted August 29, 2019 6 minutes ago, cross16 said: Few tidbits from a recent interview with Peters - Lucic will see some time with Johnny/Mony especially if game get physical (yuck....) - Lucic in phenomenal shape (typical coaches speak) - Lucic at his best when playing with a RH center. Sees him probably playing with Ryan a fair bit but would need to move a LS to RW. Said he could see Mangiapane's speed playing well with Lucic. So sounds like Lucic - Ryan - Mangiapane is how he will start. I like many elements and ideas behind that line. Yeah, wasn't thrilled about the idea of playing Lucic with Gaudreau, but it sounds like he wants to do it when he wants to send a message. He also mentioned that he sees Lucic as the net front presence on the 2nd PP unit, which isn't surprising and is a natural fit. Though I think Bennett is a really good fit there as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted August 29, 2019 Report Share Posted August 29, 2019 11 minutes ago, cross16 said: Few tidbits from a recent interview with Peters - Lucic will see some time with Johnny/Mony especially if game get physical (yuck....) - Lucic in phenomenal shape (typical coaches speak) - Lucic at his best when playing with a RH center. Sees him probably playing with Ryan a fair bit but would need to move a LS to RW. Said he could see Mangiapane's speed playing well with Lucic. So sounds like Lucic - Ryan - Mangiapane is how he will start. I like many elements and ideas behind that line. Why Yuck? As long as Lucic is fast enough to keep up, then he'll bring what Ferland brought on that line. It will work. We will just have to accept Gaudreau becomes a 85-point guy rather than a 99-point guy with Lindholm. But that frees up Lindholm with Tkachuck and help increase Tkachuk's numbers so that makes up for the loss of Gaudreau's points. That said, Lucic - Ryan - Mangiapane idea could work. Lucic just replaces Hathaway to give that line the same results. And Lucic is a better offensive player than Hathaway who relies nearly 100% on hard work instead of brains. But all this hinges on Lucic being fast enough. As long as he can skate with whoever he plays with, then he has a chance. If he's too slow then forget it. It's going to be a long year for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted August 29, 2019 Report Share Posted August 29, 2019 24 minutes ago, The_People1 said: Why Yuck? As long as Lucic is fast enough to keep up, then he'll bring what Ferland brought on that line. It will work. We will just have to accept Gaudreau becomes a 85-point guy rather than a 99-point guy with Lindholm. I get we are just talking about an experiment so it's not like i'm angry or something. I just see no reason to believe this is going to work becuase Lucic has been slow for a while now and "phenomenal" shape or not the likelihood he can reverse that at his age in 1 off-season is very remote. Also just philosophically speaking I hate the idea of putting non skilled players in skilled situation and thinking that is better for the team overall. The thought that we should accept an 85 point Gaudreau is ridiculous to me because you should want to maximize all your players talents, and I don't agree that Lindholm is going to boost others around him as he traditionally has not done that in his career. They are going to try it and it's fine I just don't like the idea at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsman1 Posted August 29, 2019 Report Share Posted August 29, 2019 25 minutes ago, cross16 said: I get we are just talking about an experiment so it's not like i'm angry or something. I just see no reason to believe this is going to work becuase Lucic has been slow for a while now and "phenomenal" shape or not the likelihood he can reverse that at his age in 1 off-season is very remote. Also just philosophically speaking I hate the idea of putting non skilled players in skilled situation and thinking that is better for the team overall. The thought that we should accept an 85 point Gaudreau is ridiculous to me because you should want to maximize all your players talents, and I don't agree that Lindholm is going to boost others around him as he traditionally has not done that in his career. They are going to try it and it's fine I just don't like the idea at all. I couldn't agree with you more Lief..... If Lucic is going to play to give others courage.. then I'm sticking by my original thought of playing him with Jankowski and Czarnik on the fourth line.. everyone roasted me when I suggested Mangiapane as a right winger,, insisting that it be Bennett.. Now because the coach suggests it .. it makes more sense>>>?? i'm still going with Bennett/Ryan/Dube as the third line.. and Tkachuk/Backlund/ Mangiapane asa the second line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted August 29, 2019 Report Share Posted August 29, 2019 51 minutes ago, cross16 said: I get we are just talking about an experiment so it's not like i'm angry or something. I just see no reason to believe this is going to work becuase Lucic has been slow for a while now and "phenomenal" shape or not the likelihood he can reverse that at his age in 1 off-season is very remote. Also just philosophically speaking I hate the idea of putting non skilled players in skilled situation and thinking that is better for the team overall. The thought that we should accept an 85 point Gaudreau is ridiculous to me because you should want to maximize all your players talents, and I don't agree that Lindholm is going to boost others around him as he traditionally has not done that in his career. They are going to try it and it's fine I just don't like the idea at all. Well maybe we don't agree on Lucic's "skills". I think he's got above average hockey awareness and can see the ice with top 6 competence. He's held back by his speed, namely, the game is too fast now. In 2011 when the Bruins won the Cup, guys his speed were still allowed to be successful but no more. He's got to lose about 15 lbs of weight and improve his first stride. Easy to say hard to do i know. I guess in the end, i feel the talent is there and hasn't been lost. Comparably speaking, someone like Hathaway is 100% effort and 0% skillz. Lucic has a decent tool set and decent passing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted August 29, 2019 Report Share Posted August 29, 2019 Just now, The_People1 said: Well maybe we don't agree on Lucic's "skills". I think he's got above average hockey awareness and can see the ice with top 6 competence. He's held back by his speed, namely, the game is too fast now. In 2011 when the Bruins won the Cup, guys his speed were still allowed to be successful but no more. He's got to lose about 15 lbs of weight and improve his first stride. Easy to say hard to do i know. I guess in the end, i feel the talent is there and hasn't been lost. Comparably speaking, someone like Hathaway is 100% effort and 0% skillz. Lucic has a decent tool set and decent passing. To go to an extreme, i think he can be the modern day Chris Simon. He was great for us in the '04 run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted August 29, 2019 Report Share Posted August 29, 2019 9 minutes ago, The_People1 said: Well maybe we don't agree on Lucic's "skills". I think he's got above average hockey awareness and can see the ice with top 6 competence. He's held back by his speed, namely, the game is too fast now. In 2011 when the Bruins won the Cup, guys his speed were still allowed to be successful but no more. He's got to lose about 15 lbs of weight and improve his first stride. Easy to say hard to do i know. I guess in the end, i feel the talent is there and hasn't been lost. Comparably speaking, someone like Hathaway is 100% effort and 0% skillz. Lucic has a decent tool set and decent passing. doesn't sound like we are far off actually. I agree on most of what you said about Lucic's strengths and awareness. My "non skilled" components if 2 fold, 1- his shot is terrible and 2 his speed. Speed for me is not jut getting up and down the ice, it's getting in on the forecheck, it's getting to the right spot in the slot, it's getting to the front of the net in time etc etc. You need speed and agility to get there and based on the Lucic i saw the last few years I just do not have faith he can do this anymore. So i don't view him as a top 6 option. Ferland is a really good skater with a good shot and that's why i don't see the comparison or the potential Lucic can do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted August 29, 2019 Report Share Posted August 29, 2019 5 minutes ago, cross16 said: doesn't sound like we are far off actually. I agree on most of what you said about Lucic's strengths and awareness. My "non skilled" components if 2 fold, 1- his shot is terrible and 2 his speed. Speed for me is not jut getting up and down the ice, it's getting in on the forecheck, it's getting to the right spot in the slot, it's getting to the front of the net in time etc etc. You need speed and agility to get there and based on the Lucic i saw the last few years I just do not have faith he can do this anymore. So i don't view him as a top 6 option. Ferland is a really good skater with a good shot and that's why i don't see the comparison or the potential Lucic can do this. So, if you compare him to Neal, you see a similar package of no speed and (last year) no shot. Based on what we saw from Neal, he should not have been 3d line. So, by extension, neither should Lucic. I tend to think we may see Lucic get minutes in role situations. Ones where speed is not as important as size. Screening the goalie in a PP situation. Extra man in a 6 on 5 end of game situation, where we need control of the boards. That may not be a great idea, but I see it as a possibility. Also, limited top line use where Gaudreau is getting man-handled. Throw him there for a few shifts to discourage it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted August 29, 2019 Report Share Posted August 29, 2019 8 minutes ago, travel_dude said: So, if you compare him to Neal, you see a similar package of no speed and (last year) no shot. Based on what we saw from Neal, he should not have been 3d line. So, by extension, neither should Lucic. This conclusion does not make sense. Neal didn't fit in the top 6 for the reasons you stated Neal didn't fit on the 3rd line because he didn't bring the above AND he also is terrible in his own zone with limited awareness plus the issue of Neal didn't want to be outside the top 6. Lucic is above avg defensively with at least avg awareness and seems motivated despite his role. Your conclusions if far too simplistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted August 29, 2019 Report Share Posted August 29, 2019 24 minutes ago, cross16 said: doesn't sound like we are far off actually. I agree on most of what you said about Lucic's strengths and awareness. My "non skilled" components if 2 fold, 1- his shot is terrible and 2 his speed. Speed for me is not jut getting up and down the ice, it's getting in on the forecheck, it's getting to the right spot in the slot, it's getting to the front of the net in time etc etc. You need speed and agility to get there and based on the Lucic i saw the last few years I just do not have faith he can do this anymore. So i don't view him as a top 6 option. Ferland is a really good skater with a good shot and that's why i don't see the comparison or the potential Lucic can do this. Yups, Neal failed because of the lack of footspeed as you've indicated. And maybe Lucic will never get there either. Very possible. We will have to see. If Lucic can't skate then we don't need to debate what skills he has because it all becomes irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 6 hours ago, cross16 said: This conclusion does not make sense. Neal didn't fit in the top 6 for the reasons you stated Neal didn't fit on the 3rd line because he didn't bring the above AND he also is terrible in his own zone with limited awareness plus the issue of Neal didn't want to be outside the top 6. Lucic is above avg defensively with at least avg awareness and seems motivated despite his role. Your conclusions if far too simplistic. It is simplistic. But the point is that Lucic doesn't have two of the three skills necessary to play above the 4th line. Shot and apeed. Maybe 'm wrong, but I didn;t see the wicked shot I thought he was capable of. He won't be much of a threat on the first wave of an attack. Trailer or collect the garbage at the net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 Neal didn't fit into the top 6, in part, because you can't succeed with two slow players on a top 9 line. Monahan and Tkachuk are slower players and they aren't getting demoted to the third. Lucic will have the same issue. Even if he still had the skill to be top 6 (which I don't think he does) he doesn't slot well. It will be the third or forth lines for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted August 30, 2019 Report Share Posted August 30, 2019 2 hours ago, kehatch said: Neal didn't fit into the top 6, in part, because you can't succeed with two slow players on a top 9 line. Monahan and Tkachuk are slower players and they aren't getting demoted to the third. Lucic will have the same issue. Even if he still had the skill to be top 6 (which I don't think he does) he doesn't slot well. It will be the third or forth lines for him. The top line succeeded because they could connect on passes. Monahan has a good release, as does Lindy. Lucic will only be there if they want to send a message with Gaudreau on the ice. It's not going to be "look I can score" as much as "stay away if you know what's good for you". Other than that, I can forsee spending time in the goalie's grill. Provoke and annoy. Tkachuk does that well enough for one PP unit. What I am hopeful for is Lucic having a chat with some of the less classy players out there. Kassian for one. Gudbranson for another. Okay, I respect Gudbranson a bit more than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted October 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2019 That conditional 3rd Rd pick (Neal scores 10+ Goals than Lucic)is looking likely.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted October 8, 2019 Report Share Posted October 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, rickross said: That conditional 3rd Rd pick (Neal scores 10+ Goals than Lucic)is looking likely.... Yup, but if he was still here he wouldn’t have any goals, wasn’t gonna play top 6 here. And we finished 2nd in scoring last year, we didn’t need more scoring 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABC923 Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 19 minutes ago, rickross said: That conditional 3rd Rd pick (Neal scores 10+ Goals than Lucic)is looking likely.... Yeah, I always thought it was a lock, but Neal could well wind up with 30+ goals this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 36 minutes ago, ABC923 said: Yeah, I always thought it was a lock, but Neal could well wind up with 30+ goals this year. Let's slow down his goals have come in two games against LA and Varlamov, and 4 of his 5 goals have come on the PP and that will slow down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 49 minutes ago, ABC923 said: Yeah, I always thought it was a lock, but Neal could well wind up with 30+ goals this year. 12 minutes ago, JTech780 said: Let's slow down his goals have come in two games against LA and Varlamov, and 4 of his 5 goals have come on the PP and that will slow down. Seeing the highlights of the game with Neal getting that hat trick tonight just made me despise him even more... and I didn't think that was possible... He coasted most of last season, and now he looks like someone lit a fire under his Hash Rate... We should start a pool to guess how long it is until he regresses back to the lazy slug on skates we were used to seeing during his time with the Flames... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted October 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 So Neal has 4 goals today...that brings him up to 6 in 3 games. He had what 7 goals for us all of last year? He’s a mofo😤 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 hour ago, JTech780 said: Let's slow down his goals have come in two games against LA and Varlamov, and 4 of his 5 goals have come on the PP and that will slow down. Wasn't one of the 4 tonight a EN goal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronco73 Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 minute ago, travel_dude said: Wasn't one of the 4 tonight a EN goal? no, the Oilers rarely get empty netters. But that being said, they didn't pull their goalie, it was a 3 goal lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 8 minutes ago, travel_dude said: Wasn't one of the 4 tonight a EN goal? May as well have been, the Islanders goalies were terrible, every goal Neal scored tonight was bad and would have been saved by 95% of the goalies in the league. Lucky night for Neal. Even after this start for Neal, I am still happier to have Lucic than Neal on my team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 I dunno. I always felt Neal was going to be better this year. He was pretty embarrassed by last year. I don’t know if it is new team new life, but I think he went into summer on a mission regardless. Was it wrong to trade him? Maybe? But you’re all right that he wasn’t going to play top 6 unless he earned it. We won’t know if he would’ve tried to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 2 hours ago, robrob74 said: I dunno. I always felt Neal was going to be better this year. He was pretty embarrassed by last year. I don’t know if it is new team new life, but I think he went into summer on a mission regardless. Was it wrong to trade him? Maybe? But you’re all right that he wasn’t going to play top 6 unless he earned it. We won’t know if he would’ve tried to. Pretty easy to fit in a top 6 withour having defensive repsonsibilities. On a team where Jurco is a top 6. Playing 20 minutes in a game. So, to put it anothe way, the Oilers do not have a capable shutdown line. Nuge used to be, but they decided they need a 2nd scoring line, hense Neal playing there. TBH, he could have been worse this year. There was no place to go but up. Janko and Bennett both have had 4 goal games, but it means nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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