robrob74 Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 4 hours ago, lou44291 said: Agreed. It was one of those nights where I feel he took the team on his back and said “follow me”. Got the party started for us for sure. that was probably one of his best games of the year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted March 9, 2020 Report Share Posted March 9, 2020 Looch showed what he can bring to benefit the team last night... It was good to see, and he was a wrecking ball on the ice... So far Looch has 1 more goal than Neal had last season, assists are even at 12... Neals +/- is -21, considerably worse than anyone on the Flames, and more than double the average for the team... Neal is still a liability on the ice, and I still don't miss him a bit... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketdoctor Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted March 19, 2020 Report Share Posted March 19, 2020 No chance. Standard language is you don't prorate games so the only way the Flames are getting a 3rd is if Neal can get 2 more goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted April 7, 2020 Report Share Posted April 7, 2020 Not surprising, but Ken Holland's understanding is the Oilers will not send the Flames a 3rd rounder if season is not resumed. https://www.tsn.ca/ken-holland-edmonton-oilers-to-keep-pick-in-neal-trade-pick-if-season-does-not-resume-1.1464036 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted April 7, 2020 Report Share Posted April 7, 2020 3 hours ago, cross16 said: Not surprising, but Ken Holland's understanding is the Oilers will not send the Flames a 3rd rounder if season is not resumed. https://www.tsn.ca/ken-holland-edmonton-oilers-to-keep-pick-in-neal-trade-pick-if-season-does-not-resume-1.1464036 Well, even though I agree with his assessment, the NHL is the ones who will make the determination of clauses related to the NHL season. It's a tough call either way. The NHL could make the statement that any clauses in contracts are subject to be prorated. Goalie X plays a certain number of games gets bonus Y. A player who plays X games or gets Y points in a season gets bonus Z. Let's put it this way, if the season is decided by the present standings (points percentage first decider), you could make the argument that all other clauses related to the season are prorated. Smith would get his bonus, Flames would get theirs. Players with bonuses in their contracts would get theirs. The flip side is that a team has the right to sit a player to prevent a bonus from kicking in. The letter of the law is any contract (including trades) stipulates what the criteria is. I doubt there is any language about points percentage or games played prorated to a full season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted May 20, 2020 Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1974689 Milan Lucic voted the worst contract in the entire NHL by Agents. Milan Lucic Flames $6M 19% Brent Seabrook Blackhawks $6.875M 14% Erik Karlsson Sharks $11.5M 10% Jeff Skinner Sabres $9M 10% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted May 20, 2020 Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 It's certainly a bad contract, but I wouldn't say it's the worst. Seabrook and Vlasic all have more term and more money on theirs. Neal's is really bad too when you consider EDM is essntially paying him 6.5 with the amount they are retaining on the Lucic deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted May 20, 2020 Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 It certainly belongs in the conversation but i'm a bit surprised it's the worst to be honest. I would rank it behind the Seabrook, Karlsson, Skinner and Neal deals myself. I don't think votes like this give enough credence to the fact that if you want to get out from the Lucic deal it's actually relatively affordable in real dollars and the back end of the structure is team friendly as well. The rest of those deals are much harder to get out from and are not as team friendly in terms of the cash payout. Bit of a futile debate though as all of them are bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted May 20, 2020 Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 Ya what about Shea Weber, Ryan Suter, and Zack Parise? Doesn't count because it's before rule changes to contracts? Those are horrible, at least in terms of cap hit and age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted May 20, 2020 Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 And where is Andrew Ladd or Louis Eriksson? All 3 signed very similar contracts back on that July 1 and Lucic has been the better of all 3 of them. Ladd isn't even in the league right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted May 20, 2020 Report Share Posted May 20, 2020 1 hour ago, cross16 said: And where is Andrew Ladd or Louis Eriksson? All 3 signed very similar contracts back on that July 1 and Lucic has been the better of all 3 of them. Ladd isn't even in the league right now. Oh I forgot about Ladd. Good one. He's 34 with 4 more years at $5.5 and he can't get back to 50% of his old self because of past injuries. Complete dead weight who will struggle to hold a 4th line job in the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 The trade condition on the Lucic/Neal pick is still a topic of discussion. From Treliving yesterday: has heard no update and is looking to see what type of language is in the return to play agreement to see what, if anything, is prorated. Sounded a little frustrated that they would not pro rate it as he felt they were on pace to get the pick. doesn't have a sense one way or another how this will go. According to Frank Seravalli the NHL is looking into the process of setting up an arbitrator to hear sides on this and potentially look at a solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 If I had to guess, I think the NHL will give the Flames a compensatory pick in the 4th or 5th round. That would seem to be fair to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 14 minutes ago, cross16 said: If I had to guess, I think the NHL will give the Flames a compensatory pick in the 4th or 5th round. That would seem to be fair to me. Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing. No way is Holland going to follow anything other that actual totals in his stance. I don't even think he would agree to a lesser pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 2 hours ago, cross16 said: The trade condition on the Lucic/Neal pick is still a topic of discussion. From Treliving yesterday: has heard no update and is looking to see what type of language is in the return to play agreement to see what, if anything, is prorated. Sounded a little frustrated that they would not pro rate it as he felt they were on pace to get the pick. doesn't have a sense one way or another how this will go. According to Frank Seravalli the NHL is looking into the process of setting up an arbitrator to hear sides on this and potentially look at a solution. Just cancel the trade. We get Neal back and Oilers get Lucic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, The_People1 said: Just cancel the trade. We get Neal back and Oilers get Lucic... By this point I suspect Oiler fans soured on Neal as well. He was replaced by a kid for one thing. Even his PP scoring dried up. I can't imagine they want to keep him long term, and buying him out is almost as caustic. Maybe they can trade him to PITTS for Jack Johnson. Or to New York for Strome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 58 minutes ago, The_People1 said: Just cancel the trade. We get Neal back and Oilers get Lucic... This would be hilarious. To be serious for a second though I would not do this. Nice to get the pick but I would still stick with the trade even without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 1 hour ago, cross16 said: This would be hilarious. To be serious for a second though I would not do this. Nice to get the pick but I would still stick with the trade even without it. Oh 110%. This trade is trending into a big win for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABC923 Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 My gut feeling is we are out of luck on the pick. After all, one could argue that Neal easily could have gone the rest of the season without another goal. He could have been injured if we played out the stretch, etc. I hadn't thought about a compensatory pick from the league though. That might be possible, but my gut still says probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, ABC923 said: My gut feeling is we are out of luck on the pick. After all, one could argue that Neal easily could have gone the rest of the season without another goal. He could have been injured if we played out the stretch, etc. I hadn't thought about a compensatory pick from the league though. That might be possible, but my gut still says probably not. The problem is that many contracts around the league have bonus pay based on conditions and if the rest of the regular is cancelled, then that's where the argument has to be made for prorating the stats for the remainder of the season. Otherwise, millions are lost for unfair reasons. And if one contract adjusts to prorated stats, then what about trades with conditions,...the condition on Neal was performance based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABC923 Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, The_People1 said: The problem is that many contracts around the league have bonus pay based on conditions and if the rest of the regular is cancelled, then that's where the argument has to be made for prorating the stats for the remainder of the season. Otherwise, millions are lost for unfair reasons. And if one contract adjusts to prorated stats, then what about trades with conditions,...the condition on Neal was performance based. I would say my gut feeling extends to all those bonus laden contracts. Players may just be out of luck; after all, those bonuses don't get paid out if players miss significant time with injury or get scratched from the line-up either. I think the legal reading would favor the literal wording of the contracts and trades, so the only reason to pay out would be as a gesture of good faith to the players by the owners, which could happen I suppose. I also wonder if stats recorded in the play-in round count as regular season stats, since they are not technically post-season games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, ABC923 said: I would say my gut feeling extends to all those bonus laden contracts. Players may just be out of luck; after all, those bonuses don't get paid out if players miss significant time with injury or get scratched from the line-up either. I think the legal reading would favor the literal wording of the contracts and trades, so the only reason to pay out would be as a gesture of good faith to the players by the owners, which could happen I suppose. I also wonder if stats recorded in the play-in round count as regular season stats, since they are not technically post-season games. No the NHL has already declared the 19-20 season regular season over. I believe I read today they are going to count points collected in the play in round will be counted as playoff stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sak22 Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, ABC923 said: I would say my gut feeling extends to all those bonus laden contracts. Players may just be out of luck; after all, those bonuses don't get paid out if players miss significant time with injury or get scratched from the line-up either. I think the legal reading would favor the literal wording of the contracts and trades, so the only reason to pay out would be as a gesture of good faith to the players by the owners, which could happen I suppose. I also wonder if stats recorded in the play-in round count as regular season stats, since they are not technically post-season games. They do not count towards the regular season, the Richard, Jennings and Art Ross have basically been declared to the winners. I know there were days that the cheap owners would want players sat if they were closing in on bonuses. Players also sometimes go out of there way to hit bonuses, even teammates try harder to help a guy than they should. I think in fairness you prorate to see which ones were likely to hit and count out the ones not to. I think fairness is as suggested with Calgary getting a comp pick in the 4th or 5th but Edmonton not having to give up one of theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 31 minutes ago, ABC923 said: I would say my gut feeling extends to all those bonus laden contracts. Players may just be out of luck; after all, those bonuses don't get paid out if players miss significant time with injury or get scratched from the line-up either. I think the legal reading would favor the literal wording of the contracts and trades, so the only reason to pay out would be as a gesture of good faith to the players by the owners, which could happen I suppose. I also wonder if stats recorded in the play-in round count as regular season stats, since they are not technically post-season games. Ya it would be interesting to see the literal wording of the contract. Would "a season" be defined as "82 games" and if the league/owners shortens the season, then the players could have a case. The other thing is, most of the league has played 70-games so not a huge proration (is that a word?) I guess i also lean towards all players are out of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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