ABC923 Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 Just thought I'd open a separate topic for this trade, rather than clog up the suggested trades thread. Personally, I don't care if there is retained salary (unless it's significant). I'd rather have Neal. I never liked Neal, but given how things have gone, he was definitely more likely to bounce back this year than Lucic. Lucic is going to most likely play on the fourth line and is instantly our slowest player. Now, if we turn this around and get Erikson out of Vancouver at a similar cap hit, then maybe I can wrap my mind around it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABC923 Posted July 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 Just a few notes on the contract we acquired. A high percentage of Lucic's salary is in signing bonuses, which makes his contract virtually buyout proof. If, for example, we buy him out next summer, we will save less than 1 million dollars in cap space that year, about 2 million the next, and 3 million the year after. Hardly worth doing. We would have saved more buying out Neal's contract instead. Lucic also comes with a NMC, which some have voiced concern over as we would be forced to protect him in the expansion draft. However, Lucic's NMC drops to a limited no trade clause in 2021, so if I am not mistaken this means we will not be forced to protect him in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, ABC923 said: Just a few notes on the contract we acquired. A high percentage of Lucic's salary is in signing bonuses, which makes his contract virtually buyout proof. If, for example, we buy him out next summer, we will save less than 1 million dollars in cap space that year, about 2 million the next, and 3 million the year after. Hardly worth doing. We would have saved more buying out Neal's contract instead. Lucic also comes with a NMC, which some have voiced concern over as we would be forced to protect him in the expansion draft. However, Lucic's NMC drops to a limited no trade clause in 2021, so if I am not mistaken this means we will not be forced to protect him in the draft. Lucic has both a modified NTC and a NMC in place so he needs to be protected in the expansion draft. However, there is speculation that he has waived the NMC to facilitate the trade to Calgary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 Again i'm not going to argue this is a good move but I do think something people should understand is the difference between Neal and Lucic is not big..... Neal was the anchor on every line he played on last year and it wasn't close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 1 hour ago, ABC923 said: Just thought I'd open a separate topic for this trade, rather than clog up the suggested trades thread. Personally, I don't care if there is retained salary (unless it's significant). I'd rather have Neal. I never liked Neal, but given how things have gone, he was definitely more likely to bounce back this year than Lucic. Lucic is going to most likely play on the fourth line and is instantly our slowest player. Now, if we turn this around and get Erikson out of Vancouver at a similar cap hit, then maybe I can wrap my mind around it... Treliving snagged the worst contract in the NHL, from Edmonton no less. Gonna be hard looking at Lucic in a Flames jersey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 well its official -- 750K retained, so we save $500K off our cap .. 3rd round conditional https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/flames-acquire-milan-lucic/c-308304944 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 At least he seems pretty excited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 I suppose that Treliving believes that we obtained some grit and lost someone who was not contributing much. We also save a bit of cash. Unless Neal turns things around after a tough season, this is not a bad trade. It just sickens me to think that Lucic is on our team. I find it odd that they would not give Neal the start to the season to see if he turns things around. That makes me wonder if rumours about poor relations with Peters are accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 10 minutes ago, cross16 said: ^ You can be evil Cross. Horrific pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames-fan-in-jets-land Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 13 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said: I suppose that Treliving believes that we obtained some grit and lost someone who was not contributing much. We also save a bit of cash. Unless Neal turns things around after a tough season, this is not a bad trade. It just sickens me to think that Lucic is on our team. I find it odd that they would not give Neal the start to the season to see if he turns things around. That makes me wonder if rumours about poor relations with Peters are accurate. When you add the supposed poor relation with Frolik to the mix you gotta wonder what is there about Peters or his coaching style that rubs some players the wrong way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said: When you add the supposed poor relation with Frolik to the mix you gotta wonder what is there about Peters or his coaching style that rubs some players the wrong way? Fair question. but at the same time I think Neal has to wear a lot of that. he was awful early on, uninspired, didn't play defense, and then pouted when Peters didn't move him up and play him on the top liine despite the fact that the Flames had a much better option in Lindholm. I'm not sure they are many coaches that would have been a fan of Neal last year and the fact that rumors circulated about how much more training he is doing (hinting that perhaps it wasn't enough last year) it adds to that dislike. I'm sure they didn't get along but it looks to me like this is more circumstantial than anything. At the end of the day I just think Neal was a really bad fit. I also don't think its possible for a coach to be universally liked so if it's only 2 that isn't bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames-fan-in-jets-land Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 10 minutes ago, cross16 said: Fair question. but at the same time I think Neal has to wear a lot of that. he was awful early on, uninspired, didn't play defense, and then pouted when Peters didn't move him up and play him on the top liine despite the fact that the Flames had a much better option in Lindholm. I'm not sure they are many coaches that would have been a fan of Neal last year and the fact that rumors circulated about how much more training he is doing (hinting that perhaps it wasn't enough last year) it adds to that dislike. I'm sure they didn't get along but it looks to me like this is more circumstantial than anything. At the end of the day I just think Neal was a really bad fit. I also don't think its possible for a coach to be universally liked so if it's only 2 that isn't bad. From whats being said on sportsnet looks like you're right about Neal not being ready last year. Whats also being said is he's been training with McJesus this summer, I have a heavy sense of dread that he's going to be back to the James Neal of old. RW with McD, 1st PP time, it's gonna look bad. Edit: Stories of Neal working hard in the off season are a couple weeks old now. Has this move been in the works longer than we think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 39 minutes ago, phoenix66 said: well its official -- 750K retained, so we save $500K off our cap .. 3rd round conditional https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/flames-acquire-milan-lucic/c-308304944 Article is a bit ambiguous. 12% retained annually or of the total remaining contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 There’s been talk for sometime that the Flames were waiting until this week passed as Lucic was owed $3M, which Oilers have already paid. We get Lucic at $5.25M now, hopefully they modified his NTC/NMC clause too...i still don’t like the trade, it’s so lateral it’s coming off as unnecessary. I guess time will tell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said: From whats being said on sportsnet looks like you're right about Neal not being ready last year. Whats also being said is he's been training with McJesus this summer, I have a heavy sense of dread that he's going to be back to the James Neal of old. RW with McD, 1st PP time, it's gonna look bad. I doubt that they would put him with McDavid. There is no way Neal is keeping up with him. Perhaps he moves to their second line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, rickross said: There’s been talk for sometime that the Flames were waiting until this week passed as Lucic was owed $3M, which Oilers have already paid. We get Lucic at $5.25M now, hopefully they modified his NTC/NMC clause too...i still don’t like the trade, it’s so lateral it’s coming off as unnecessary. I guess time will tell... So the Oiler hacks reported that his bonus was paid July 1st, not 17th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 47 minutes ago, cross16 said: At least he seems pretty excited. The Oilers have Chiasson, Granlund, Russell, Smith, and now Neal. Might as well call them the Edmonton Flames. I still like the RNH idea around Brodie. Maybe there's more Oilers/Flames trades to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 1 minute ago, The_People1 said: The Oilers have Chiasson, Granlund, Russell, Smith, and now Neal. Might as well call them the Edmonton Flames. I still like the RNH idea around Brodie. Maybe there's more Oilers/Flames trades to come. No thanks! We don’t need anymore of their damaged goods. Ken Holly is polishing poop up there and shipping it downstream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames-fan-in-jets-land Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Two conditions have to be met for Oilers to send 3rd round pick to Calgary - James Neal has to record at least 21 goals and Lucic scores at least 10 fewer goals than Neal.</p>— Mark Spector (@SportsnetSpec) <a href="https://twitter.com/SportsnetSpec/status/1152378270995738626?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 20, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> So if either condition is not met the Flames get nothing? This gets better and better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames-fan-in-jets-land Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 I dont know what I'm doing. /obviously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 I understand that getting Lucic is less than desirable, but moving Neal was imperative. Neal isn't a top 6 player and he wasn't a top 6 player when we signed him, I think it is funny that the Oilers think he can be a top 6 player. Everybody watched Neal play last year right? He was one of, if not the worst players in the entire league last year. Lucic actually out preformed Neal in just about every way last year. Lucic put up slightly better numbers in P/60 and P1/60 (Primary points per 60 minutes). After watching Neal last year I just don't see how he bounces back, he was so bad, quite possibly the worst season I have ever seen from a player in a Flames uniform. He contributed nothing to this team last year. Lucic at least fills a role for this team, he is grossly overpaid, but so is Neal, he is very slow, I would say from what I seen last year Neal is slower. I just really don't think this trade is as bad as people are making it out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, JTech780 said: I understand that getting Lucic is less than desirable, but moving Neal was imperative. Neal isn't a top 6 player and he wasn't a top 6 player when we signed him, I think it is funny that the Oilers think he can be a top 6 player. Everybody watched Neal play last year right? He was one of, if not the worst players in the entire league last year. Lucic actually out preformed Neal in just about every way last year. Lucic put up slightly better numbers in P/60 and P1/60 (Primary points per 60 minutes). After watching Neal last year I just don't see how he bounces back, he was so bad, quite possibly the worst season I have ever seen from a player in a Flames uniform. He contributed nothing to this team last year. Lucic at least fills a role for this team, he is grossly overpaid, but so is Neal, he is very slow, I would say from what I seen last year Neal is slower. I just really don't think this trade is as bad as people are making it out to be. This time next year I think Oiler fans will want done with Neal as much as they wanted done with Lucic. Contract sucks but so did Neal’s and honestly I’m not so sure the flames didn’t get the better player here. I hate the contract and I don’t like the trade but I don’t hate it. I do think this makes the flames better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 8 minutes ago, cross16 said: This time next year I think Oiler fans will want done with Neal as much as they wanted done with Lucic. Contract sucks but so did Neal’s and honestly I’m not so sure the flames didn’t get the better player here. I hate the contract and I don’t like the trade but I don’t hate it. I do think this makes the flames better. Who is faster? Does Lucic at least have the ability to keep up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 1 minute ago, robrob74 said: Who is faster? Does Lucic at least have the ability to keep up? Overall, Neal but I’m not sure that’s a selling feature when you consider the benchmark. But it this is more about role. Problem Neal was his lack of speed meant he wasn’t productive in the top 6 and his subpar play is his own zone made him a bad fit in the bottom 6. Lucic is actually good in his own zone. Speeds not really a factor IMO. Role is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted July 20, 2019 Report Share Posted July 20, 2019 I was just looking at Neal and Lucic's totals over the last 3 years and some might be surprised that Neal only has produced 1 more point than Lucic at 5v5 in the last 3 years. All the while Lucic has been a much better possession player over that time frame while playing on the Oilers, while Neal played on good teams like Nashville, Vegas and Calgary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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