2019-20 ROSTER PLANNING

[Horsman1]

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think the problem is we don't have a 2nd line offensive line.

Bennett should have been the start of that, or Tkachuk with an offensive C.

Backlund plays the 2nd most minutes of our C's, so we have to lessen the role to turn Backlund into a 3rd C.

 

I'm all for swapping Backlund for a more offensive guy, but someone needs to trade that to us.

Duchene in FA, followed by Backlund traded for a RW.

Or Schenn for Backlund.

Something like that.

yup except Duchesne is gonna cost 9 mill and we can't afford that.. Schenn I'd try at least

 

[cccsberg]

17 hours ago, Sarasti said:

I think the 9-9.5 is the realistic range we see on his contract. With some of the other numbers we've seen dealt and talked about in the last little while I'd be surprised if it's any lower than 9.

Well, big difference of opinion.  BT will not sign him for more than $7.5mm, and rightly so.  

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cccsberg said:

Well, big difference of opinion.  BT will not sign him for more than $7.5mm, and rightly so.  

 

What we want and what happen may be two different things.

You want term past RFA years, you have to pay for it.

 

[GM_3300]

4 hours ago, Horsman1 said:

I like Backlund.. I really do but his time here in Calgary Has turned him almost exclusively into a third line defensive center .. He is not a second line offensive center,, Unfortunately.. He costs too much for a third line center and we have Dube who is a much better skater and cheaper player for that role.. We don't have the cap room for the luxury of playing backlund in that role and Tkachuk really needs a center more focused on offence to maximize his talents.. Also it looks more and more like neal is going to be here for another year and play right wing on the second line.. if Gaudreau/Monahan/lindholm. is the top line.. Tkachuk/? /neal is the second line.. Bennett/ Dube/ Hathaway  the third line/ mangiapane/Ryan/ Czarnick . the fourth line. with 2 spares.. this fits into trelivings plan of minimal player change.. Change through player growth.. and some expensive contracts to ship out to help our cap situation allowing us to pay a decent price for a top two line center,, And No,, I don't think Duchesne at 9 mill a year is that player

 

Lots of ways to skin a cat and people need to get off this Backlund makes to much to be our 3rd line C. He isn't our 3rd line C and he isn't a handicap when it's time to score (mind you he missed the net a lot this past season). The situation for that line with Frolik on RW was they were similar players which limited them offensively along with Tkachuk 5 on 5. We had a weak 3rd line which also limited Peters in trying to cover the opposition threats so IMO it's restricting the lines wit some new or different talents with better overall players to spread the duties arounds. It isn't the money being paid to Backlund that is the problem is what I am trying to say. Using STL as an example as I did above they spent more money down the middle and made it work. We should be able to as well. Two forward additions.

Gaudreau, Monahan, Neal

Tkachuk, Backlund, Lindholm

Bennett, Kadri, Connolly

Mangiapane, Ryan, Czarnik

[bosn111]

Neal and Monahan together does not work. They are too similar in that they both have high end shots, but neither one pushes the play. You basically have 2 guys who like to set up between the offensive zone face-off dots to receive a pass and snipe the shot. If you want teams to focus entirely on shutting down Johnny and the offense, put both Monahan and Neal on a line with him. Gaudreau / Neal would work if you used a MacKinnon type centre. Someone who fights for the puck, has a good pass, a good shot, will be physical, will drive the net. If you want Gaudreau and Monahan to maximize their skills, you get them a RW who does what MacKinnon would do. That is why Ferland worked well for a bit. As it stands, the Flames aren't confident with using Bennett in that role over Monahan. Nor do they have a RW who plays that style.

 

I don't know who to put in each specific role, or who to trade for, but Monahan and Neal on the same line is asking for disaster.

[GM_3300]

8 minutes ago, bosn111 said:

Neal and Monahan together does not work. They are too similar in that they both have high end shots, but neither one pushes the play. You basically have 2 guys who like to set up between the offensive zone face-off dots to receive a pass and snipe the shot. If you want teams to focus entirely on shutting down Johnny and the offense, put both Monahan and Neal on a line with him. Gaudreau / Neal would work if you used a MacKinnon type centre. Someone who fights for the puck, has a good pass, a good shot, will be physical, will drive the net. If you want Gaudreau and Monahan to maximize their skills, you get them a RW who does what MacKinnon would do. That is why Ferland worked well for a bit. As it stands, the Flames aren't confident with using Bennett in that role over Monahan. Nor do they have a RW who plays that style.

 

I don't know who to put in each specific role, or who to trade for, but Monahan and Neal on the same line is asking for disaster.

I disagree, everyone that has ever played with those two has done exceptionally well. Neal is good along the boards and knows how to find open ice. Maybe it's Monahan that as to expand his game and be more of a playmaker or actually do some work along the boards. I think it's time next season to boost the effort with Tkachuk and Backlund which Lindholm will do.

[Thebrewcrew]

I doubt this happens but IMO the Flames need to give Neal 10-15 games to start next season on the top line. He never got that last year. I love Lindholm and Peters should us how brilliant he is by putting him there, but Lindholm is much more versatile than Neal. As we saw this past season it Neal isn’t given an opportunity and linemates to score, he provides nothing. Pair Lindholm with Tkachuk and he will still put up 60+ points. We have Neal for another 4 seasons may as well put him in the best position possible to succeed. 

[Horsman1]

1 hour ago, GM_3300 said:

Lots of ways to skin a cat and people need to get off this Backlund makes to much to be our 3rd line C. He isn't our 3rd line C and he isn't a handicap when it's time to score (mind you he missed the net a lot this past season). The situation for that line with Frolik on RW was they were similar players which limited them offensively along with Tkachuk 5 on 5. We had a weak 3rd line which also limited Peters in trying to cover the opposition threats so IMO it's restricting the lines wit some new or different talents with better overall players to spread the duties arounds. It isn't the money being paid to Backlund that is the problem is what I am trying to say. Using STL as an example as I did above they spent more money down the middle and made it work. We should be able to as well. Two forward additions.

Gaudreau, Monahan, Neal

Tkachuk, Backlund, Lindholm

Bennett, Kadri, Connolly

Mangiapane, Ryan, Czarnik

treliving has been very outspoken on many occasions in many interviews in regards to the fact that there will not be any new contracts coming to the city in terms of top end players The League as a whole is at a stop to much transactions of any type until sept/oct when we may see a bit of movement.. I'm okay with keeping Backlund as our second line center with Tkachuk and Neal until we have room for adjustments...

[Horsman1]

I have a cap question .. All my canadian friends are caught up in something called Basketball fever.. whatever that is.. or watching the Stamps so... Question... Is it possible.. that if Backlund/Frolik/Brodie/Smith/Jankowski/ Stone are not traded before the season starts.. to wave them in the hopes of someone picking up their contracts.. and if not,, sending them to the minors?? Would their contract as a player in the minors still count against the Cap here in Calgary?? If not.. I'd just as soon send them there at full contract price and get their salaries off our major league team and get the proper players needed then to have them here blocking the possibility of improving our team.. Most of those players won't last but a few months down there any way until some team with injuries comes calling

 

[JTech780]

1 hour ago, bosn111 said:

Neal and Monahan together does not work. They are too similar in that they both have high end shots, but neither one pushes the play. You basically have 2 guys who like to set up between the offensive zone face-off dots to receive a pass and snipe the shot. If you want teams to focus entirely on shutting down Johnny and the offense, put both Monahan and Neal on a line with him. Gaudreau / Neal would work if you used a MacKinnon type centre. Someone who fights for the puck, has a good pass, a good shot, will be physical, will drive the net. If you want Gaudreau and Monahan to maximize their skills, you get them a RW who does what MacKinnon would do. That is why Ferland worked well for a bit. As it stands, the Flames aren't confident with using Bennett in that role over Monahan. Nor do they have a RW who plays that style.

 

I don't know who to put in each specific role, or who to trade for, but Monahan and Neal on the same line is asking for disaster.

 

I agree 100% with this. Part of why I don't like those two together is also their speed, I think having two slower skaters on the same line makes it tough for Gaudreau and it makes it tougher on the defense.

 

I really want to see Bennett on that line for more of prolonged look, I think he can go dig pucks out for those other two and he is also very good at gaining the offensive blue line which would take some pressure off of Gaudreau and mean that teams wouldn't be able to just key in on him through the neutral zone. Bennett also is very good in the faceoff circle so it takes some pressure off of Monahan that way.

 

Lindholm with Backlund and Tkachuk really helps spread the offense and Lindholm can take the strong side faceoffs. 

 

Neal with Mangiapane and Ryan would be my 3rd line, Mangiapane and Ryan can push the defense back with their speed and Neal can be the trailer which will help him get into my shooting positions.

[JTech780]

30 minutes ago, Horsman1 said:

I have a cap question .. All my canadian friends are caught up in something called Basketball fever.. whatever that is.. or watching the Stamps so... Question... Is it possible.. that if Backlund/Frolik/Brodie/Smith/Jankowski/ Stone are not traded before the season starts.. to wave them in the hopes of someone picking up their contracts.. and if not,, sending them to the minors?? Would their contract as a player in the minors still count against the Cap here in Calgary?? If not.. I'd just as soon send them there at full contract price and get their salaries off our major league team and get the proper players needed then to have them here blocking the possibility of improving our team.. Most of those players won't last but a few months down there any way until some team with injuries comes calling

 

 

First of all Backlund isn't going anywhere.

 

Secondly Smith is no longer under contract with Calgary after July 1st.

 

Thirdly only $1.25m comes off the cap if you send a player to the AHL. So you wouldn't be saving much cap space by sending Backlund, Frolik, Brodie or Stone to the minors. What would happen is that nobody would want to sign here because they would see how poorly players would be treated here. 

[Horsman1]

10 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

First of all Backlund isn't going anywhere.

 

Secondly Smith is no longer under contract with Calgary after July 1st.

 

Thirdly only $1.25m comes off the cap if you send a player to the AHL. So you wouldn't be saving much cap space by sending Backlund, Frolik, Brodie or Stone to the minors. What would happen is that nobody would want to sign here because they would see how poorly players would be treated here. 

please list the overwhelming throng of players clamoring to come to Calgary.. Thanks for the other smart Hash Rate remarks.. it was just a fukking question I didn't know about

 

[Sarasti]

How about a top 6 of:
Gaudreau - Bennett - Neal
Tkachuk - Monahan - Lindholm

[JTech780]

3 minutes ago, Sarasti said:

How about a top 6 of:
Gaudreau - Bennett - Neal
Tkachuk - Monahan - Lindholm

 

IMO Tkachuk, Monahan, Neal have to be on seperate lines, just because I don't see having two slower skaters on the same line working.

[Sarasti]

2 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

IMO Tkachuk, Monahan, Neal have to be on seperate lines, just because I don't see having two slower skaters on the same line working.

I'd agree normally, but Tkachuk is our most dynamic player outside Gaudreau. In a more cycle-oriented style I could see this line as effective.

[GM_3300]

1 hour ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I doubt this happens but IMO the Flames need to give Neal 10-15 games to start next season on the top line. He never got that last year. I love Lindholm and Peters should us how brilliant he is by putting him there, but Lindholm is much more versatile than Neal. As we saw this past season it Neal isn’t given an opportunity and linemates to score, he provides nothing. Pair Lindholm with Tkachuk and he will still put up 60+ points. We have Neal for another 4 seasons may as well put him in the best position possible to succeed. 

I agree, let's see what happens. Guaranteed playing Neal on the 3rd = same results. Joe Colborne wasn't a fast skater and he did well with them. Worried about defense have your best defensive pairing playing with them.

[JTech780]

13 minutes ago, GM_3300 said:

I agree, let's see what happens. Guaranteed playing Neal on the 3rd = same results. Joe Colborne wasn't a fast skater and he did well with them. Worried about defense have your best defensive pairing playing with them.

 

If he is played with Jankowski than I would agree, but I think Ryan and Mangiapane are a better fit for his style of play, so no playing Neal on the 3rd line is not a guarantee for the same results.

 

Colborne rarely played with Gaudreau and Monahan.

 

You can play the line with your best defensive pairing but it's still going to be difficult when they are constantly being outnumbered in the defensive zone because two of your forwards can't get back fast enough.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, Horsman1 said:

please list the overwhelming throng of players clamoring to come to Calgary.. Thanks for the other smart Hash Rate remarks.. it was just a fukking question I didn't know about

 

 

Easy there.  You were not attacked but were given answers to questions.

As far as the spelling of the F word, remember this is a NHL site.

Defeating the swear filter is not acceptable here.

 

[ABC923]

So I get Mony is a great shooter, but aren’t we undervaluing his playmaking ability? 34 goals, 48 assists? They aren’t all rebounds.  When that top line was clicking, all three guys were making some great plays.

 

i’m not saying he’s JH good at playmaking, but the narrative on these boards makes him out to be a one-dimensional shooter.  Neal on the other hand is a pure shooter, racking up more goals than assists consistently.  I could actually see him fitting decently on that top line, although the speed worries me.

[GM_3300]

10 hours ago, ABC923 said:

So I get Mony is a great shooter, but aren’t we undervaluing his playmaking ability? 34 goals, 48 assists? They aren’t all rebounds.  When that top line was clicking, all three guys were making some great plays.

 

i’m not saying he’s JH good at playmaking, but the narrative on these boards makes him out to be a one-dimensional shooter.  Neal on the other hand is a pure shooter, racking up more goals than assists consistently.  I could actually see him fitting decently on that top line, although the speed worries me.

Monahan is not our problem, never has been, never will be, he does what he is paid to do. The RW on that line has to be an equal talent of distraction to keep the opposition's defensive efforts off of Gaudreau and Monahan (Lindholm did this). Where this team fell down was within the next two lines not pulling their weight and this is where serious change is required. Peters could tinker with what he has or Treliving could seriously alter the roster to supply Peters the types of players he whats for his style of hockey.

I think we all share the lack of speed especially when it involves 3 players that are or should be some of our best players Monahan, Tkachuk and Neal. There are only going to be so many line variations that will accommodate their lack of speed. This aspect is why I say you trade Neal for whatever it takes because we are not trading Monahan and Tkachuk. First pave the way and in order to do that get the player you need to replace Neal in order to have better line chemistry. This next comment kills me to say but maybe its time to trade Bennett after tis long wait to see some scoring develop out of him. I love is compete but maybe its time to replace him with a similar compete player with proven scoring.

Here is my trade proposal: Bennett, Brodie, Stone and the 2020-1st to TOR for Nylander RW and Kadri C. Treliving needs to find new homes for Frolik and Neal to finish out what we no longer need here.

FORWARD GROUP

Gaudreau, Monahan, Nylander ( good compliment of speed and talent)

Tkachuk, Backlund, Lindholm (good compliment of speed along with a strong offensive and defensive presence)

Mangiapane, Kadri, Connolly (UFA I really think we need this guy)

???????, Ryan, ???????? (decisions are needed here)

Both teams need to move money contracts and rearrange their roster priorities. TOR can use Bennett has a 3rd line C while Brodie and Stone fills in their RD needs on a short term basis. The #1 pick should be adequate compensation for Nylander leaving and the sort term nature of Brodie and Stone. They get to keep Marner as well.

[The_People1]

12 hours ago, ABC923 said:

So I get Mony is a great shooter, but aren’t we undervaluing his playmaking ability? 34 goals, 48 assists? They aren’t all rebounds.  When that top line was clicking, all three guys were making some great plays.

 

i’m not saying he’s JH good at playmaking, but the narrative on these boards makes him out to be a one-dimensional shooter.  Neal on the other hand is a pure shooter, racking up more goals than assists consistently.  I could actually see him fitting decently on that top line, although the speed worries me.

 

"make plays" is not always linked with assists.  

 

Like, if Johnny is carrying the puck on a 2-on-2, get ready for something creative.  He's going to try and make something happen.  If Monahan is carrying the puck on a 2-on-2, get ready for him passing to Johnny to make something happen.  Monahan is not great at making plays.  He is not that good at creating something that doesn't already exist.  That's not to say it's black or white like level 10 or level 0... but Monahan is like level 5 or 6 when it comes to making plays and Johnny is a level 10.

[GM_3300]

5 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

"make plays" is not always linked with assists.  

 

Like, if Johnny is carrying the puck on a 2-on-2, get ready for something creative.  He's going to try and make something happen.  If Monahan is carrying the puck on a 2-on-2, get ready for him passing to Johnny to make something happen.  Monahan is not great at making plays.  He is not that good at creating something that doesn't already exist.  That's not to say it's black or white like level 10 or level 0... but Monahan is like level 5 or 6 when it comes to making plays and Johnny is a level 10.

Do you see anything wrong with that for this line ?

[The_People1]

9 minutes ago, GM_3300 said:

Do you see anything wrong with that for this line ?

 

It's a good combo.  Natural fit.  One is a passer/playmaker and the other is a finisher.

 

But to say Monahan is underrated play maker because of assists... He is what he is, don't you agree?  Monahan is an average play maker.

 

I get why ABC wants to defend Monahan because we make it sound like Monahan is a total fail at play making which is not true.  Just saying, he's not what #1 Centers typically are.  It's almost like Johnny should be the Center and Monahan is the winger.

[GM_3300]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

It's a good combo.  Natural fit.  One is a passer/playmaker and the other is a finisher.

 

But to say Monahan is underrated play maker because of assists... He is what he is, don't you agree?  Monahan is an average play maker.

 

I get why ABC wants to defend Monahan because we make it sound like Monahan is a total fail at play making which is not true.  Just saying, he's not what #1 Centers typically are.  It's almost like Johnny should be the Center and Monahan is the winger.

I do agree he is an average playmaker at best and weak in the corners but he is strong in tight scoring spots and finding open ice in order to score. When he does carry the puck he can also be very effective. Gaudreau IMO could help himself and the line if he would actually shoot more like he was doing early last season. It's when he starts seeing himself as only a feeder that the opposition zeroes in on him. I believe it important that any line have the essential ingredients to create success so whether Gaudreau as a Winger or Monahan as a C makes it happen that is all that matters. The bonus on that line is when you have an equally talented RW such as Lindholm or if we could get Nylander the opposition can't zero in on shutting Gaudreau down. If the only negative on Nylander is he is soft, take a look at his assists and I see a player we want on our team.

[The_People1]

1 minute ago, GM_3300 said:

I do agree he is an average playmaker at best and weak in the corners but he is strong in tight scoring spots and finding open ice in order to score. When he does carry the puck he can also be very effective. Gaudreau IMO could help himself and the line if he would actually shoot more like he was doing early last season. It's when he starts seeing himself as only a feeder that the opposition zeroes in on him. I believe it important that any line have the essential ingredients to create success so whether Gaudreau as a Winger or Monahan as a C makes it happen that is all that matters. The bonus on that line is when you have an equally talented RW such as Lindholm or if we could get Nylander the opposition can't zero in on shutting Gaudreau down. If the only negative on Nylander is he is soft, take a look at his assists and I see a player we want on our team.

 

Agreed.  Good lines is about putting strengths together and offsetting weaknesses.  You can't have 3 playmakers and no finishers, for example.  There's going to be a whole bunch of moving the puck around the perimeter and nobody is shooting.