2019 Calgary Flames NHL Draft

[travel_dude]

20 hours ago, travel_dude said:

I don't suggest they package a 1st and Frolik, for Zucker.  Assuming that was the deal.

That is the price you pay at TDL, not the off-season.

2020 2nd rounder + Frolik maybe.

It's a big salary to take on for that many years.

 

There was some suggestion that the 1st was actually a high draft pick, not a 1st.  In other words, a 2nd in 2020.  

[JTech780]

https://www.tsn.ca/kakko-closes-gap-on-hughes-in-tsn-hockey-s-mock-draft-4-0-1.1309174

 

Button's new mock draft has us taking Brett Leason, I would rather trade the pick.

[cccsberg]

Finished watching St Louis obliterate the Sharks, which just reinforced two things.  First, you have to be lucky to get this far and succeed.  That St Louis made it past Dallas in that game 7 double-overtime where Dallas was all over them with many glorious missed opportunities, to say nothing of San Jose's gifted major penalty call and miracle 4-goal PP.  Secondly, this series made it so clear how the NHL's totally new set of rules for the playoffs advantages big, tough, and dirty teams like the Blues.  There were non-calls on so many illegal hits in the series, eventually forcing out multiple top guys like it did for the Sharks.  The NHL has seemingly decided it wants to even the playing field even more than the stupid Bettman points and encourages brutal and very often illegal physical/dirty play to give lessor teams a better shot against higher-skilled teams, and does so by instructing the refs to put their whistles away and "let them play".  How sickening and disappointing.  The NHL plays us all for fools and we fans just go along with it.... St Louis may have won anyways due to their attention to D, better goaltending and very solid forechecking, but it would have been more satisfying if the games were called consistently and correctly.... the same way they are/should be all season long.  

 

So, how does this fit with this thread?  It makes you wonder what should be your priorities as a GM with drafting?  Do you worry most about the regular season or the "new and improved" bs rules for the playoffs?  As a fan looking at all the above, I see no clear answer moving forward, for any team.  Its kind of the luck of the draw, how does the ref feel today and what fluke hit/injry is going to derail your dreams....?  Flames offered a terrific product this year, and continuing on their present course that will likely continue.  

[MAC331]

18 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Finished watching St Louis obliterate the Sharks, which just reinforced two things.  First, you have to be lucky to get this far and succeed.  That St Louis made it past Dallas in that game 7 double-overtime where Dallas was all over them with many glorious missed opportunities, to say nothing of San Jose's gifted major penalty call and miracle 4-goal PP.  Secondly, this series made it so clear how the NHL's totally new set of rules for the playoffs advantages big, tough, and dirty teams like the Blues.  There were non-calls on so many illegal hits in the series, eventually forcing out multiple top guys like it did for the Sharks.  The NHL has seemingly decided it wants to even the playing field even more than the stupid Bettman points and encourages brutal and very often illegal physical/dirty play to give lessor teams a better shot against higher-skilled teams, and does so by instructing the refs to put their whistles away and "let them play".  How sickening and disappointing.  The NHL plays us all for fools and we fans just go along with it.... St Louis may have won anyways due to their attention to D, better goaltending and very solid forechecking, but it would have been more satisfying if the games were called consistently and correctly.... the same way they are/should be all season long.  

 

So, how does this fit with this thread?  It makes you wonder what should be your priorities as a GM with drafting?  Do you worry most about the regular season or the "new and improved" bs rules for the playoffs?  As a fan looking at all the above, I see no clear answer moving forward, for any team.  Its kind of the luck of the draw, how does the ref feel today and what fluke hit/injry is going to derail your dreams....?  Flames offered a terrific product this year, and continuing on their present course that will likely continue.  

I believe the draft is for building the organization and keeping your pipeline healthy with options for the main team. I also believe certain players rise to the challenge within playoffs and some do not. Also some don't need to if their play is steady and consistently good. NHL rules and officiating have been getting steadily worse over the last 5 or 6 years. I'm not sure what the answers are for loading up your team be it for the season vs playoffs. With our Flames and this season in the rear view mirror I would say we have some definite weak spots but overall we could use some additional size, speed and a whole lot more compete from more players.

[The_People1]

46 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Finished watching St Louis obliterate the Sharks, which just reinforced two things.  First, you have to be lucky to get this far and succeed.  That St Louis made it past Dallas in that game 7 double-overtime where Dallas was all over them with many glorious missed opportunities, to say nothing of San Jose's gifted major penalty call and miracle 4-goal PP.  Secondly, this series made it so clear how the NHL's totally new set of rules for the playoffs advantages big, tough, and dirty teams like the Blues.  There were non-calls on so many illegal hits in the series, eventually forcing out multiple top guys like it did for the Sharks.  The NHL has seemingly decided it wants to even the playing field even more than the stupid Bettman points and encourages brutal and very often illegal physical/dirty play to give lessor teams a better shot against higher-skilled teams, and does so by instructing the refs to put their whistles away and "let them play".  How sickening and disappointing.  The NHL plays us all for fools and we fans just go along with it.... St Louis may have won anyways due to their attention to D, better goaltending and very solid forechecking, but it would have been more satisfying if the games were called consistently and correctly.... the same way they are/should be all season long.  

 

So, how does this fit with this thread?  It makes you wonder what should be your priorities as a GM with drafting?  Do you worry most about the regular season or the "new and improved" bs rules for the playoffs?  As a fan looking at all the above, I see no clear answer moving forward, for any team.  Its kind of the luck of the draw, how does the ref feel today and what fluke hit/injry is going to derail your dreams....?  Flames offered a terrific product this year, and continuing on their present course that will likely continue.  

 

Two groups within one team.

 

One group for the regular season to get you to the playoffs.  The second group for the playoffs (aka effin dirty mofos who will kill unless killed first).

 

If you can't beat them, join 'em.

[The_People1]

54 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

https://www.tsn.ca/kakko-closes-gap-on-hughes-in-tsn-hockey-s-mock-draft-4-0-1.1309174

 

Button's new mock draft has us taking Brett Leason, I would rather trade the pick.

 

What's wrong with Leason?  

[JTech780]

2 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

What's wrong with Leason?  

 

This will be his 3rd time through the draft, he put up ok numbers for a player his age, but nothing spectacular. 

 

I think he will probably play in the NHL, but it will most likely be in a bottom 6 role. I just don't think he is a player I would risk taking in the 1st round, because I just don't see a ton of upside there.

[The_People1]

5 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

This will be his 3rd time through the draft, he put up ok numbers for a player his age, but nothing spectacular. 

 

I think he will probably play in the NHL, but it will most likely be in a bottom 6 role. I just don't think he is a player I would risk taking in the 1st round, because I just don't see a ton of upside there.

 

Oh wow I didn't realize he's already 20.  He posted dominating numbers this year as he should because he's 6'-4" 200lbs playing against 16 year olds.  Against his own age 2 years ago, his numbers are forgettable.  Bottom 6 material.

 

He should be ashamed of himself.  

[JTech780]

4 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Oh wow I didn't realize he's already 20.  He posted dominating numbers this year as he should because he's 6'-4" 200lbs playing against 16 year olds.  Against his own age 2 years ago, his numbers are forgettable.  Bottom 6 material.

 

He should be ashamed of himself.  

 

Don't get me wrong I would still draft him, just not in the 1st round, maybe not in the 2nd either. If he was available in the 3rd I would look at him as an option.

[Horsman1]

1 hour ago, cccsberg said:

Finished watching St Louis obliterate the Sharks, which just reinforced two things.  First, you have to be lucky to get this far and succeed.  That St Louis made it past Dallas in that game 7 double-overtime where Dallas was all over them with many glorious missed opportunities, to say nothing of San Jose's gifted major penalty call and miracle 4-goal PP.  Secondly, this series made it so clear how the NHL's totally new set of rules for the playoffs advantages big, tough, and dirty teams like the Blues.  There were non-calls on so many illegal hits in the series, eventually forcing out multiple top guys like it did for the Sharks.  The NHL has seemingly decided it wants to even the playing field even more than the stupid Bettman points and encourages brutal and very often illegal physical/dirty play to give lessor teams a better shot against higher-skilled teams, and does so by instructing the refs to put their whistles away and "let them play".  How sickening and disappointing.  The NHL plays us all for fools and we fans just go along with it.... St Louis may have won anyways due to their attention to D, better goaltending and very solid forechecking, but it would have been more satisfying if the games were called consistently and correctly.... the same way they are/should be all season long.  

 

So, how does this fit with this thread?  It makes you wonder what should be your priorities as a GM with drafting?  Do you worry most about the regular season or the "new and improved" bs rules for the playoffs?  As a fan looking at all the above, I see no clear answer moving forward, for any team.  Its kind of the luck of the draw, how does the ref feel today and what fluke hit/injry is going to derail your dreams....?  Flames offered a terrific product this year, and continuing on their present course that will likely continue.  

actually.. The road to the cup hasn't changed in many many years.. What has changed however is the salary cap.. Let me explain.. Previous to the cap being implemented.. (As A Bruins fan this is hard to admit)Sam Pollock of the habs was one of the smartest g/m.s the league ever had.. He did not get emotionally vested in the personalities of his players..He would swap players at the right time.. the height of their career.. he would also swap players to teams to take out his competition teams.. amongst other very smart moves... The Salary cap era has put some restrictions on inter league trades as they rarely happen anymore.. But... There are two seasons in the NHL.. The regular season and the playoffs.. It is almost impossible to win both with the same players... The real good G/m/s understand that an 84 game schedule keeps your fan base.. The playoffs is where teams make their money for the year.. The solution??? Smart salary cap usage for the regular season that leads you to have enough room to manipulate your roster to that of playoff hockey at the trade deadline..This gives your team enough time to readjust to some minor player/roster adjustments and sets your new roster for the second season.. Use the draft following the playoffs to re manipulate your next season roster for a successful regular season

[JTech780]

I disagree with this idea that you need big physical players to win in the playoffs, St. Louis isn't a big team, the have a few big players and that helps, but their best player in the playoffs is 5'9" Jaden Schwartz and Lady Byng Award winner Ryan O'Reilly.

 

What you need in the playoffs is players with elite compete level, which what they have with Schwartz, O'Reilly and Schenn. 

 

That's an area that I think that Treliving needs to focus on in the draft. Rating compete as high as skill and skating, when assessing players.

[The_People1]

7 minutes ago, Horsman1 said:

... There are two seasons in the NHL.. The regular season and the playoffs.. It is almost impossible to win both with the same players... 

 

The same players but two groups within one roster.  Understand some players need to incubate in a 10-min-per-game role during the regular season.  Once playoffs roll around, play them 18-mins-per-game (Bennett, Mike Smith).  Scale back the minutes for the "regular season" crew (Monahan, Gaudreau, Jankowski, Brodie, and I'm sorry but Backlund too).

 

There are only so many Jarome Iginla's who can perform in both "seasons".  Who wouldn't want a Nathan MacKinnon but there's only a few of those guys.

 

Tkachuk, it's his first playoffs so cut him some slack.  He was dragged down by Backlund who got pwned all over the ice by MacKinnon.

 

Etc, etc.

 

It's a tricky balancing act because you don't want too many "playoff guys" because you risk missing the playoffs.  You don't want too many "regular season guys" because you risk repeating the Flames playoff performance.

[The_People1]

6 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

I disagree with this idea that you need big physical players to win in the playoffs, St. Louis isn't a big team, the have a few big players and that helps, but their best player in the playoffs is 5'9" Jaden Schwartz and Lady Byng Award winner Ryan O'Reilly.

 

What you need in the playoffs is players with elite compete level, which what they have with Schwartz, O'Reilly and Schenn. 

 

That's an area that I think that Treliving needs to focus on in the draft. Rating compete as high as skill and skating, when assessing players.

 

No one said "big physical" per se.  Brad Marchand is not big and physical.  Small and physical is just fine.  Dat sandpaper and grit tho.

[Thebrewcrew]

No to Leason for me, not at 26th. Kinda reminds me of Hunter Smith, which went oh, so great.

 

 

I wouldn’t take him top 45 honestly. But good for him for making hockey’s life’s career.

 

 

 

[JTech780]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

No one said "big physical" per se.  Brad Marchand is not big and physical.  Small and physical is just fine.  Dat sandpaper and grit tho.

 

I think we are more or less saying the same thing. I call it compete and you call sandpaper and grit. Though if you look at Jaden Schwartz and Logan Couture, who are arguably the 2 best players so far in these playoffs, their games are about being smart, skilled and working harder than anyone else on the ice. 

 

We need more of that, that's why I really like Nils Hoglander and if we could get an early 2nd I would like to see us pick Nathan Legare. 

 

Legare hits like a truck has a big shot and works hard. He does need to work on his skating, it's pretty average to slightly below average right now, so if he could improve that, he could be similar to Timo Meier.

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, Horsman1 said:

actually.. The road to the cup hasn't changed in many many years.. What has changed however is the salary cap.. Let me explain.. Previous to the cap being implemented.. (As A Bruins fan this is hard to admit)Sam Pollock of the habs was one of the smartest g/m.s the league ever had.. He did not get emotionally vested in the personalities of his players..He would swap players at the right time.. the height of their career.. he would also swap players to teams to take out his competition teams.. amongst other very smart moves... The Salary cap era has put some restrictions on inter league trades as they rarely happen anymore.. But... There are two seasons in the NHL.. The regular season and the playoffs.. It is almost impossible to win both with the same players... The real good G/m/s understand that an 84 game schedule keeps your fan base.. The playoffs is where teams make their money for the year.. The solution??? Smart salary cap usage for the regular season that leads you to have enough room to manipulate your roster to that of playoff hockey at the trade deadline..This gives your team enough time to readjust to some minor player/roster adjustments and sets your new roster for the second season.. Use the draft following the playoffs to re manipulate your next season roster for a successful regular season

 

Actually, the Flames did that with Reinhart when they traded him to the Nucks, to help steal a win or two away from Edm, allowing the Flames to win the league. Although the Canucks almost knocked em out, it was a move to help the Flames win the div.

[robrob74]

51 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I think we are more or less saying the same thing. I call it compete and you call sandpaper and grit. Though if you look at Jaden Schwartz and Logan Couture, who are arguably the 2 best players so far in these playoffs, their games are about being smart, skilled and working harder than anyone else on the ice. 

 

We need more of that, that's why I really like Nils Hoglander and if we could get an early 2nd I would like to see us pick Nathan Legare. 

 

Legare hits like a truck has a big shot and works hard. He does need to work on his skating, it's pretty average to slightly below average right now, so if he could improve that, he could be similar to Timo Meier.

 

I think the Flames team in 04 was better than any Flames team since then, only because they came to play. They ended up trading in some of them, not signing but replacing them for more skilled guys and the compete level dropped. 

 

The will to win is seemingly beating out the skill!

[JTech780]

40 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I think the Flames team in 04 was better than any Flames team since then, only because they came to play. They ended up trading in some of them, not signing but replacing them for more skilled guys and the compete level dropped. 

 

The will to win is seemingly beating out the skill!

 

What's the old saying...

 

Hard work beats skill if skill isn't willing to work hard.

 

I think you need to be skilled but you need your skill to work harder than anyone else. 

 

That's why guys like Toews and Crosby have been so successful. They are two of the most skilled players around, but they are also two of the hardest workers in the league.

 

If we want to take that next step Monahan has to be willing to go to that level of work ethic.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

What's the old saying...

 

Hard work beats skill if skill isn't willing to work hard.

 

I think you need to be skilled but you need your skill to work harder than anyone else. 

 

That's why guys like Toews and Crosby have been so successful. They are two of the most skilled players around, but they are also two of the hardest workers in the league.

 

If we want to take that next step Monahan has to be willing to go to that level of work ethic.

A couple years ago Mark Schiefle was being questioned about his development. It was his third year and people were wondering if he was going to be one of those career underachievers. In the off season he went to that Gary Roberts camp and worked his Hash Rate off on conditioning and skill tuning, and it paid off the next season. That was hard work brought on by the player himself. When the best conditioned players at the start of camp are two of your senior players is it too much to ask that maybe the rest take notice? I'm not saying guys like Johnny, Mony, and Janko aren't working out in the off season but what are guys like Gio and Fro doing different?

[The_People1]

5 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

I think we are more or less saying the same thing. I call it compete and you call sandpaper and grit. Though if you look at Jaden Schwartz and Logan Couture, who are arguably the 2 best players so far in these playoffs, their games are about being smart, skilled and working harder than anyone else on the ice. 

 

We need more of that, that's why I really like Nils Hoglander and if we could get an early 2nd I would like to see us pick Nathan Legare. 

 

Legare hits like a truck has a big shot and works hard. He does need to work on his skating, it's pretty average to slightly below average right now, so if he could improve that, he could be similar to Timo Meier.

 

Ya I think we are basically saying the same thing.

 

Size let's a team absorb the dirty stuff better, that's all.  But we need the aggressors on our team. 

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

A couple years ago Mark Schiefle was being questioned about his development. It was his third year and people were wondering if he was going to be one of those career underachievers. In the off season he went to that Gary Roberts camp and worked his Hash Rate off on conditioning and skill tuning, and it paid off the next season. That was hard work brought on by the player himself. When the best conditioned players at the start of camp are two of your senior players is it too much to ask that maybe the rest take notice? I'm not saying guys like Johnny, Mony, and Janko aren't working out in the off season but what are guys like Gio and Fro doing different?

 

I'm curious, has anyone gone to Gary Roberts camp and didn't succeed?  There has to be right?  

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

I think the Flames team in 04 was better than any Flames team since then, only because they came to play. They ended up trading in some of them, not signing but replacing them for more skilled guys and the compete level dropped. 

 

The will to win is seemingly beating out the skill!

 

Ya man.  The 04 team was out to prove something.

 

After that, we believed our own hype and all was lost.  I felt this season, we came out the gates with something to prove.  Then after we won our conference, we drank our own hype and that was the end of us.  

 

Maybe our problem as a franchise is we celebrate the little things, like, winning a conference.  We lost focus.  Didn't keep the eyes on the prize.

[The_People1]

9 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

Don't get me wrong I would still draft him, just not in the 1st round, maybe not in the 2nd either. If he was available in the 3rd I would look at him as an option.

 

5 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

No to Leason for me, not at 26th. Kinda reminds me of Hunter Smith, which went oh, so great.

 

 

I wouldn’t take him top 45 honestly. But good for him for making hockey’s life’s career.

 

How does Leason compare to Lawson Crouse?

[Thebrewcrew]

22 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

 

How does Leason compare to Lawson Crouse?

Crouse entered his draft year with a higher pedigree than Leason, who’s an older player. But I think best case scenario is Leason develops into the mould of Crouse

 

Lots out there link Leason to Pearson, whom had a similar career path as a late bloomer. I just don’t think Leason will score as often at the NHL level as Pearson 

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya man.  The 04 team was out to prove something.

 

After that, we believed our own hype and all was lost.  I felt this season, we came out the gates with something to prove.  Then after we won our conference, we drank our own hype and that was the end of us.  

 

Maybe our problem as a franchise is we celebrate the little things, like, winning a conference.  We lost focus.  Didn't keep the eyes on the prize.

 

That could be the biggest problem. We made the playoffs, and next year after we have hype and miss. Then make then miss, then make, then...? But every time this team has gained any hype it’s too big to handle. I’d say it’s the wrong kind of swagger. 

 

You want swagger, but when we get it, we turn to pond hockey. 

 

Next year could very well be a down year.