cross16 Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 1 hour ago, MAC331 said: King's role has been lessened a lot. That depends on who you ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, cross16 said: That depends on who you ask. Just going with my sources. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flames-fan-in-jets-land Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 3 hours ago, cross16 said: I have no beef with Ken King, I just don't think he does a very good job ruining my favorite sports franchise, so yes i'm going to be critical of what he does when I don't agree with it. I think Ken King likes to win games because wining is good for the brand the the business but I don't think King's brand is winning. If you are all about winning you don't: have parades when you lose cup finals hire Jay Feaster. Refuse to rebuild meddle in trades and your GMs business, or flat out be involved in Hockey op decisions when you don't have a hockey background. Not to mention the only reason BT is here is Brian Burke. King didn't want to let feaster go and it's also my understanding the call to hire Burke was a Murray Edwards call, not King. Its not all doom and gloom. I like BT and think he is doing a good job and the flames should win a lot of games in the next few years. But for me culture is a huge piece to winning a championship and I'm skeptical that culture can develop here to push them over the edge. If the players on the ice want to win bad enough the culture is a moot point. Other than a few players the desire to push hard and win was sorely lacking as the season went on. All the players in the league dream of hoisting the cup, and all have been playing on highly competitive teams since the early years (none of the everyone get a prize environment), granted I'm not a pro athlete but if that's isn't motivation enough then no amount of "winning culture" is going to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 42 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said: If the players on the ice want to win bad enough the culture is a moot point. Other than a few players the desire to push hard and win was sorely lacking as the season went on. All the players in the league dream of hoisting the cup, and all have been playing on highly competitive teams since the early years (none of the everyone get a prize environment), granted I'm not a pro athlete but if that's isn't motivation enough then no amount of "winning culture" is going to help. A player can have all of the skill in the world but if they’re not willing to compete then it’s moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 I think BP is the right coach for us. He was rarely satisfied with winning or how we played in a game. As far as round one, I can't tell what happened. We certainly didn't see the best a Flames team could play. Gio-Brodie stunk up the ice, but Gio was motivated and had the right attitude. He just wasn't good. It seemed at times that he was afraid of making mistakes and failed to play aggresively. Smith? Well people said he played his best hockey, but I still saw a lot of goals that should have been stopped. No, he's not the reason we lost, but comparing him to say Mrazek or Rask or Binnington? Not even close. The defense played back, like they expected to have to defend after the players entered the D-zone. They gave up the blueline like it was nothing. It was like they forgot about gaps. Too many times they waited for Smith to decide what he was doing with the puck. The forwards gave up on plays once they turned the puck over. Like they expected it to turn into a goal against. Forget about the man you were covering, and just watch to see if the puck goes in on the first shot. Feel the pressure when you finally get the puck, and blindly pass it. Enter the zone, but either go too deep without any support or stay too shallow, where there are 4 other people. Essentially, we played the last string of games like we played the playoffs. Play to not get hurt. No need to block the shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 1 hour ago, travel_dude said: Essentially, we played the last string of games like we played the playoffs. Play to not get hurt. No need to block the shot. I'm not sure if it's culture problem or players scared to get hurt but that San Jose game after Kane mouthed off at us told us all we needed to know about the character of this team. When the intensity ramped up, we folded like a cheap suit. Frolik said it too after the playoffs. This team lacks toughness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 13 minutes ago, The_People1 said: I'm not sure if it's culture problem or players scared to get hurt but that San Jose game after Kane mouthed off at us told us all we needed to know about the character of this team. When the intensity ramped up, we folded like a cheap suit. Frolik said it too after the playoffs. This team lacks toughness. The Flames almost signed Reaves in the summer. Would they have beat the Avs if Reaves was in the lineup? Doubt it. Fact is the Flames peaked too early and weren’t at their best when they needed it most, they didn’t lose because the Avs man-handled them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 26 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said: The Flames almost signed Reaves in the summer. Would they have beat the Avs if Reaves was in the lineup? Doubt it. Fact is the Flames peaked too early and weren’t at their best when they needed it most, they didn’t lose because the Avs man-handled them If we didn't show up to play then it doesn't matter even if we had McDavid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 23 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said: The Flames almost signed Reaves in the summer. Would they have beat the Avs if Reaves was in the lineup? Doubt it. Fact is the Flames peaked too early and weren’t at their best when they needed it most, they didn’t lose because the Avs man-handled them I honestly don’t think the Flames ever peaked. The first line peaked, but the rest of the team didn’t play along. Then the fourth line peaked in the second half but the first line died. The third line peaked without Neal and then died when he returned. If peaking means playing 2-3 weeks of team hockey then they peaked too early. But they didn’t play as a whole unit for a lot of the season. I think we were lucky to be in first by the end of the year, riding different lines that got hot at the right time in order to get us there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 22 minutes ago, robrob74 said: I honestly don’t think the Flames ever peaked. The first line peaked, but the rest of the team didn’t play along. Then the fourth line peaked in the second half but the first line died. The third line peaked without Neal and then died when he returned. If peaking means playing 2-3 weeks of team hockey then they peaked too early. But they didn’t play as a whole unit for a lot of the season. I think we were lucky to be in first by the end of the year, riding different lines that got hot at the right time in order to get us there. I think you are correct robrob. I think BP is a good coach but I don't think he ever got the chemistry right except for the odd time. I also think some of the players were not fits for him and with some serious discussion he and BT can make changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 Just for the record, we didn't tail off this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted May 11, 2019 Report Share Posted May 11, 2019 19 hours ago, JTech780 said: Just for the record, we didn't tail off this season. The points percentage overstates what we actually played like. January - 9-1-1 February - 8-3-2 March - 8-7-0 April - 1-2-0 The last 10 games were 3 against playoff and 7 non-playoff teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted May 13, 2019 Report Share Posted May 13, 2019 Sometimes things go so well in an 82-game season that there's little urgency to try new things, try different lines, try different strategies, different team structures, different PP/PK, etc. And as a result, the team becomes less adaptive in the playoffs. The team because rigid and inflexible. The Avs made changes after Game 1 and we didn't make a change ourselves. But sad thing is, we didn't use the regular season to try these different setups, different Xs and Os, different zone entries, etc. We played one way so well that we became a one structure team. I hope BP will go into next season with this in mind and put several variations of the team on the ice. Get the team to play two or three ways. If we lack the personnel to play other ways better then BT has to go get those players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted May 13, 2019 Report Share Posted May 13, 2019 3 hours ago, The_People1 said: Sometimes things go so well in an 82-game season that there's little urgency to try new things, try different lines, try different strategies, different team structures, different PP/PK, etc. And as a result, the team becomes less adaptive in the playoffs. The team because rigid and inflexible. The Avs made changes after Game 1 and we didn't make a change ourselves. But sad thing is, we didn't use the regular season to try these different setups, different Xs and Os, different zone entries, etc. We played one way so well that we became a one structure team. I hope BP will go into next season with this in mind and put several variations of the team on the ice. Get the team to play two or three ways. If we lack the personnel to play other ways better then BT has to go get those players. I feel like they played an extension of GG’s system. The team didn’t play much different aside from more consistent scoring throughout the year. Even the PP didn’t change much from coach to coach. I think even that played in the strategies to shut us down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted May 13, 2019 Report Share Posted May 13, 2019 3 hours ago, The_People1 said: The Avs made changes after Game 1 and we didn't make a change ourselves. But sad thing is, we didn't use the regular season to try these different setups, different Xs and Os, different zone entries, etc. We played one way so well that we became a one structure team. I think that is key. With the top line being shut down (or beaten down), we should have moved Neal up there. Useless or not, he was able to at least play on the boards. He's also a little better at playing on RW, moreso than Bennett. That should have been tried for more than a single game. Make it work. At least as a goto option. Bennett-Janko-Neal never really worked this year. Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik didn't do anything well in the playoffs. There was no plan B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted May 13, 2019 Report Share Posted May 13, 2019 37 minutes ago, robrob74 said: I feel like they played an extension of GG’s system. The team didn’t play much different aside from more consistent scoring throughout the year. Even the PP didn’t change much from coach to coach. I think even that played in the strategies to shut us down... The PP was poor execution. They had played well at points through the year, but seemed to fall into a certain rhythm that didn't work. I didn't see a GG game, but I did see a team that forgot what to do without the puck. 50 shots per game? Not even close to the way they played the regular season. The PK had been good when they pressured the puck carrier. They only seemed to back off and try to hold the line on entry. After that, there was nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 On 2019-05-13 at 1:45 PM, travel_dude said: The PP was poor execution. They had played well at points through the year, but seemed to fall into a certain rhythm that didn't work. I didn't see a GG game, but I did see a team that forgot what to do without the puck. 50 shots per game? Not even close to the way they played the regular season. The PK had been good when they pressured the puck carrier. They only seemed to back off and try to hold the line on entry. After that, there was nothing. It’s mind boggling trying to figure out exactly where this team went wrong at seasons end. They came all that way only to forget how they got there, which is the concern. What exactly did Peters implement in this team all year and why couldn’t they recapture it when it mattered most? We were a different team in the playoffs, our game seemed to get worse with each game. How much of that falls on to BP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 1 hour ago, rickross said: It’s mind boggling trying to figure out exactly where this team went wrong at seasons end. They came all that way only to forget how they got there, which is the concern. What exactly did Peters implement in this team all year and why couldn’t they recapture it when it mattered most? We were a different team in the playoffs, our game seemed to get worse with each game. How much of that falls on to BP? I feel like Game 1 came too easy. Colorado was probably relieved to be in and took the game off. Game 2 the Avs adjusted. The Flames didn’t know what hit them and were shocked at the waves they came at them. Forgot to skate, forgot how to play puck support. Game 3 much the same as game 2. Then at the halfway point kind of broke the Avs’ barrier and skated a bit more but still not as good. Game4 much like the 2nd half of game 3, skated but didn’t support well enough, but started getting a few chances. Gsme 5 the Flames actually came and tried to play, it’s where they realized they were in the playoffs. Did some good things but it was too late and it got ugly. Was their best game for effort but didn’t get bounces or calls. Only Starting to play/skate in game 4 is a recipe for disaster and that’s what happened very too little too late. i think a lot of it had to do with “believing the hype.” Winners might believe the hype, but they talk the talk, and they walk and walk... ive always felt this about Monahan, what are you doing without the puck, where’s your all-round game? He gets into position but doesn’t pressure. True #1s take over a game, take over a series. He didn’t find options for Gaudreau. Maybe that’s also on Gaudreau? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 1 hour ago, rickross said: It’s mind boggling trying to figure out exactly where this team went wrong at seasons end. They came all that way only to forget how they got there, which is the concern. What exactly did Peters implement in this team all year and why couldn’t they recapture it when it mattered most? We were a different team in the playoffs, our game seemed to get worse with each game. How much of that falls on to BP? Mind boggling is the truth. The ASG break messed them up royally. The TDL seemed to impact as well. All in all, the team floundered in February thru April. We gave the other Pacific teams a chance to win the division. We barely won it on the back of a few games against non-playoff teams. We saw a lot of bad play in the weeks leading up to the playoffs. Goaltending - everyone praises Smith for his stellar play, but really he didn't get the job done. Top pair D - played without any swagger, they had trouble with all aspects of the game Top line - played very much the way they did to end the season, without a lot of structure 2nd line - unable to do anything well, did not contain and did not provide offense PP - stagnant and predictable PK - allowed the other team to set up Coaching? There was some areas I would like to improve upon, but not wholesale changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 7 minutes ago, robrob74 said: Game 2 the Avs adjusted. By far, the biggest adjustment i saw the Avs make was they didn't allow the Flames to ring the puck around the boards to the D on the far side to keep possession. We had success in Game 1 but then the Avs read the play. They sent a winger to the far boards to intercept. Simple. Yet, effective. That's how we weren't able to pressure in the offensive zone like we were able to do so well all season. The counter move to their counter move... probably send that far D towards the net and sneak in back door. That forces their far winger to give up the ring around to defend the back door play. Did we do this? I dunno but we certainly didn't ring the puck around the far boards with success anymore after Game 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 11 minutes ago, travel_dude said: Mind boggling is the truth. The ASG break messed them up royally. The TDL seemed to impact as well. All in all, the team floundered in February thru April. We gave the other Pacific teams a chance to win the division. We barely won it on the back of a few games against non-playoff teams. We saw a lot of bad play in the weeks leading up to the playoffs. Goaltending - everyone praises Smith for his stellar play, but really he didn't get the job done. Top pair D - played without any swagger, they had trouble with all aspects of the game Top line - played very much the way they did to end the season, without a lot of structure 2nd line - unable to do anything well, did not contain and did not provide offense PP - stagnant and predictable PK - allowed the other team to set up Coaching? There was some areas I would like to improve upon, but not wholesale changes. 👍🏼👍🏼 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 59 minutes ago, travel_dude said: Mind boggling is the truth. The ASG break messed them up royally. The TDL seemed to impact as well. All in all, the team floundered in February thru April. We gave the other Pacific teams a chance to win the division. We barely won it on the back of a few games against non-playoff teams. We saw a lot of bad play in the weeks leading up to the playoffs. Goaltending - everyone praises Smith for his stellar play, but really he didn't get the job done. Top pair D - played without any swagger, they had trouble with all aspects of the game Top line - played very much the way they did to end the season, without a lot of structure 2nd line - unable to do anything well, did not contain and did not provide offense PP - stagnant and predictable PK - allowed the other team to set up Coaching? There was some areas I would like to improve upon, but not wholesale changes. Very true! All Star break did halt our momentum for the remainder of the season. Now this is part of my concern, what team falls apart simply because of extended time off? I hope we’re not THAT fragile of a team. You’d also think the coaches would have planned on how to manage the team over the break to avoid any fall off in play. From everything u mentioned regarding the goalies, top lines performances and stagnant PP, you’d think BP would have been more active in making adjustments. I know he juggled lines near the end of the year but it was already too late, the spark just wasn’t there anymore. All in all I’m just trying to figure out if we were that bad or were the Avs just that good? Did Bednar simply out coach BP, or do we still not have the right group here in Calgary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 12 hours ago, rickross said: Very true! All Star break did halt our momentum for the remainder of the season. Now this is part of my concern, what team falls apart simply because of extended time off? I hope we’re not THAT fragile of a team. You’d also think the coaches would have planned on how to manage the team over the break to avoid any fall off in play. From everything u mentioned regarding the goalies, top lines performances and stagnant PP, you’d think BP would have been more active in making adjustments. I know he juggled lines near the end of the year but it was already too late, the spark just wasn’t there anymore. All in all I’m just trying to figure out if we were that bad or were the Avs just that good? Did Bednar simply out coach BP, or do we still not have the right group here in Calgary? Responding to you and Travel; I think the Flames could be fragile but I think it is a matter of our best players not being able to compete when games get tougher - which coincides with the ASG break. Two years in a row the team’s best had been shut down. If Monahan’s injury held him back that much then it’s still his fault for playing through the injury. I think regardless of the injury, Monahan didn’t help create space and didn’t again this year while healthy. We blame Ferland but the same result happened with Lindholm, yet Monahan had injuries while Ferland was on... I just think they can’t play when the going gets tough. They did it with Hudler but the league is onto them now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Tribal Chief Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 I Think One of the major Problems aswell is personally It is Great that we clinched first but once we did Clinch first Bill peters Sat alot of the top line players so There was no Motivation going into the playoffs cause they werent winning going in cause a majority of there top line was snoring at home Honestly i dont think we Should of rested players i think we should of played Full throttle Going in To the playoffs as we did to clinch so that we had that Swagger and Motivation from winning Games going in even if they didnt Matter to us Now i Maybe wrong but this is just my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 I see it differnetly. While I agree that there should have been more tinkering with line combos/pp, the Flames did make multiple system adjustment throughout the year. A huge reason they struggle out of the break is they switched their system, and it was also a key reason the top line went cold. The Flames stopped being such a rush team and tried to become a more dump and chase grind away team, and they made some adjustments with their D to stop giving up all the odd man rushes they gave up in the first half of the year. I don't think it was a case of they weren't ready or needing to adjust, they simply needed a better game plan and better execution when it mattered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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