CALGARY FLAMES VS. EDMONTON OILERS: Future, Past and Present

[conundrumed]

I would definitely think Lucic. $2mil retained.

You manage from the Cap up, or the Cap down.

I'm not sure there is a right answer...

[Flyerfan52]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

They were only able to get Strome for a much better player in Eberle.  If Lucic is worse than last year and continues his decline, they would need to retain half his salary just to get someone to listen and that is assuming he agrees to waive his NMC.  Just saying.   

I would happily take Lucic for his full base salary. That means the Oilers pay every signing bonus due July 1 for the remaining 6 years whether there is hockey played that year or not.

[rickross]

On 2017-07-24 at 9:18 AM, redfire11 said:

Another question would be if Edmonton and Calgary both missed the playoffs next year Which GM Chiarelli or Treliving would have a job in 2019.

Edmonton does not have the pipeline or assets to bounce back in 2019 if they miss the playoffs in 2018; where I see Calgary capable of a major bounce back after a bad year.

I would pick Treliving as having the better asset and $ management. 

Good question! Which GM is on the shorter leash? I'd say BT is under more pressure as his mandate is to contend for the cup. Oilers are over the moon just for finally qualifying for the playoffs, Chia has earned a bit of breathing room even if they do regress slightly or miss the playoffs next year. Not to mention with the D corps BT can now tout..this team is going to is under pressure not only to succeed but to excel. 

 

Id take Calgarys prospect pool over Edmontons every time, however BT has handcuffed this teams' draft potential for the next year or 2. We don't have the Oilers ensuing cap issues but so far McMoney has proven his worth. 

[rickross]

Oilers aren't as balanced as the Flames are, should Scrooge McDavid get injured again it will be interesting to see what kind of team they really are. Flames could lose JH or Monny and I don't think the impact would be as significant. 

 

If the Oilers ever did trade Lucic could they even afford to retain any salary?

[travel_dude]

14 hours ago, rickross said:

Good question! Which GM is on the shorter leash? I'd say BT is under more pressure as his mandate is to contend for the cup. Oilers are over the moon just for finally qualifying for the playoffs, Chia has earned a bit of breathing room even if they do regress slightly or miss the playoffs next year. Not to mention with the D corps BT can now tout..this team is going to is under pressure not only to succeed but to excel. 

 

Id take Calgarys prospect pool over Edmontons every time, however BT has handcuffed this teams' draft potential for the next year or 2. We don't have the Oilers ensuing cap issues but so far McMoney has proven his worth. 

 

Chia is as under the gun as BT.  One year of success folllowed by missing the playoffs would be a firing offense.  The expectations are cup or finals at least.  He basically has determined the fate of the team last year, and not enough dramatic change to improve what he had.  Very much what Feaster did; we think we are better than the results showed, so let's let the team take us to the next level as is.

[MAC331]

37 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Chia is as under the gun as BT.  One year of success folllowed by missing the playoffs would be a firing offense.  The expectations are cup or finals at least.  He basically has determined the fate of the team last year, and not enough dramatic change to improve what he had.  Very much what Feaster did; we think we are better than the results showed, so let's let the team take us to the next level as is.

I think both teams had fortunate circumstances that allowed both to reach the playoffs. Funny how we blame our goaltending and EDM wouldn't have made it without Talbot playing as much as he did. I don't see either GM under the gun, both have made some good roster moves to solidify their teams. Coaches and players take it from here.

[travel_dude]

58 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I think both teams had fortunate circumstances that allowed both to reach the playoffs. Funny how we blame our goaltending and EDM wouldn't have made it without Talbot playing as much as he did. I don't see either GM under the gun, both have made some good roster moves to solidify their teams. Coaches and players take it from here.

 

The difference is that EDM ownership views the playoffs now as a given.  Chia made moves that are only acceptable if they return there.  

[MAC331]

41 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

The difference is that EDM ownership views the playoffs now as a given.  Chia made moves that are only acceptable if they return there.  

So if they don't you think he will be fired ? Do you not think that EDM ownership would not like to gain some consistency with management not a revolving door ?

[travel_dude]

40 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

So if they don't you think he will be fired ? Do you not think that EDM ownership would not like to gain some consistency with management not a revolving door ?

 

Considering that EDM media seemed to be the ones demanding an Eberle trade, I think missing the playoffs would be a firing offense.  Pressure from the fans.  Pressure from the media.  Fan polls in the newspaper.  The big reason why the media/fans forgave Chia last year was making the playoffs and McDavid's trophy year.

 

The same ol' boys club still exists.  Nicholson, Lowe, T-Mac, Gretzky (x2), etc.  As long as the coach remains the same, the GM will be held to a different standard.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Considering that EDM media seemed to be the ones demanding an Eberle trade, I think missing the playoffs would be a firing offense.  Pressure from the fans.  Pressure from the media.  Fan polls in the newspaper.  The big reason why the media/fans forgave Chia last year was making the playoffs and McDavid's trophy year.

 

The same ol' boys club still exists.  Nicholson, Lowe, T-Mac, Gretzky (x2), etc.  As long as the coach remains the same, the GM will be held to a different standard.

Fans don't make decisions. I don't agree with your thinking here.

[Cowtownguy]

41 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Fans don't make decisions. I don't agree with your thinking here.

I am not sure about that one. I think that GMs are relatively autonomous. If pressure from fans and media is intense enough, then I suspect that management will also look at decisions more carefully. The GMs know that controversial decisions will be scrutinized more carefully by those above them, so my guess is that they feel the pressure. So, I think Chia is under the gun. 

[MAC331]

2 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

I am not sure about that one. I think that GMs are relatively autonomous. If pressure from fans and media is intense enough, then I suspect that management will also look at decisions more carefully. The GMs know that controversial decisions will be scrutinized more carefully by those above them, so my guess is that they feel the pressure. So, I think Chia is under the gun. 

Hey I hope he is I really don't think he is that good and want him to stay there. LOL

I guess if mistakes are that obvious to a LOUD majority of fans yes they might influence a decision that is already being contemplated.

There isn't a GM in the world of sports that doesn't screw up and take chances with players.

[conundrumed]

How are you guys going to get through August? lol

[MAC331]

45 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

How are you guys going to get through August? lol

Let's pick on VAN. LOL

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Fans don't make decisions. I don't agree with your thinking here.

 

Funny how it works.  Chia goes on abut how Eberle had a down year as far as points, but said he was in not leaning towards trading him.  Edmonton Journal does a poll and finds an overwhelming majority of fans wanting him traded.  Connected media talk about how he has disappointed.  Then he is traded.

[MAC331]

23 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Funny how it works.  Chia goes on abut how Eberle had a down year as far as points, but said he was in not leaning towards trading him.  Edmonton Journal does a poll and finds an overwhelming majority of fans wanting him traded.  Connected media talk about how he has disappointed.  Then he is traded.

He was always going to be traded.

[Flyerfan52]

On 2017-07-23 at 2:25 PM, rickross said:

For starters how would you grade Brad Treliving vs. Peter Chiarelli? Both have lead their teams back to playoff berths and 2nd round exists. They both have acquired and signed assets that have benefited their respective teams but have also made some questionable and regrettable decisions. If you had to pick which of these GMs would you prefer running your team? 

I check the Oilers board from time to time (I might be banned as some of them really didn't like me a lot & it mentions creating an account which I have no intentions of) & it seems you've been raising a little heck over there.

Keep up the good work.

[redfire11]

3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

How are you guys going to get through August? lol

Cold Beer

[rickross]

1 hour ago, Flyerfan52 said:

I check the Oilers board from time to time (I might be banned as some of them really didn't like me a lot & it mentions creating an account which I have no intentions of) & it seems you've been raising a little heck over there.

Keep up the good work.

Lol! I'm not liked on those boards at all...theyre talking like they've been this competitive team the last decade and now their deserving of a Cup! 

[travel_dude]

12 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said:

I check the Oilers board from time to time (I might be banned as some of them really didn't like me a lot & it mentions creating an account which I have no intentions of) & it seems you've been raising a little heck over there.

Keep up the good work.

 

I posted a comment about on Oilersnation about Yamamoto being similar in some respects to Matt Phillips, and the blog writer basically laughed it off saying there was no comparison between a 1st rounder and a 6th.  No logical argument after I pointed out the stats and the size of the player.  Some of the Oiler blogger are a joke.  Some aere such homers that when they write blogs on FN about the Flames, you can see the Oiler bias coming out.  

 

Somehow the ON people decided that you can't use a FN user account on their site anymore.  Even though it's supposed to be cross site.  That is something new.   

[Flyerfan52]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I posted a comment about on Oilersnation about Yamamoto being similar in some respects to Matt Phillips, and the blog writer basically laughed it off saying there was no comparison between a 1st rounder and a 6th.  No logical argument after I pointed out the stats and the size of the player.  Some of the Oiler blogger are a joke.  Some aere such homers that when they write blogs on FN about the Flames, you can see the Oiler bias coming out.  

 

Somehow the ON people decided that you can't use a FN user account on their site anymore.  Even though it's supposed to be cross site.  That is something new.   

So that's it. I thought they banned me but didn't have the guts to tell me.

[Cowtownguy]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I posted a comment about on Oilersnation about Yamamoto being similar in some respects to Matt Phillips, and the blog writer basically laughed it off saying there was no comparison between a 1st rounder and a 6th.  No logical argument after I pointed out the stats and the size of the player.  Some of the Oiler blogger are a joke.  Some aere such homers that when they write blogs on FN about the Flames, you can see the Oiler bias coming out.  

 

Somehow the ON people decided that you can't use a FN user account on their site anymore.  Even though it's supposed to be cross site.  That is something new.   

I recall having a discussion with a guy on a political website. He asked why people treat politics like sports. That is, some offer unwavering support for their "club" despite hard evidence that what you are supporting is illogical. It was an interesting comparison. My point is that he assumed support for a sports team is purely ideological in nature. I think he was correct to some extent. What I don't understand is why a lot of fans are not up for calm, rational discussions. Why is it so often a bunch of drama queens supportive of their clubs or entirely hostile to their management/roster? 

 

I find the culture of the boards quite interesting. Canucks fans are, by and large, a bunch of angry, spoiled princesses. I would be embarrassed to be a member of that board even if my identity is anonymous. Oiler fans have a slack-jawed, drunken, yokel flavour. This board seems pretty calm to me. Our bashing is rather tame. Heck, even the trolls find us boring. 

[MAC331]

4 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

I recall having a discussion with a guy on a political website. He asked why people treat politics like sports. That is, some offer unwavering support for their "club" despite hard evidence that what you are supporting is illogical. It was an interesting comparison. My point is that he assumed support for a sports team is purely ideological in nature. I think he was correct to some extent. What I don't understand is why a lot of fans are not up for calm, rational discussions. Why is it so often a bunch of drama queens supportive of their clubs or entirely hostile to their management/roster? 

 

I find the culture of the boards quite interesting. Canucks fans are, by and large, a bunch of angry, spoiled princesses. I would be embarrassed to be a member of that board even if my identity is anonymous. Oiler fans have a slack-jawed, drunken, yokel flavour. This board seems pretty calm to me. Our bashing is rather tame. Heck, even the trolls find us boring. 

I think for the most part we as posters stay fairly rational with each other, sometimes challenging with and for more discussion. We have a good forum here.

[jjgallow]

 

Just a general response,

 

I give Calgary GMs a hard time, but it in no way compares to the blunders of the Oilers.   There is no need for a "versus", when we speak of the last 10 years.   The Oilers have been a failure in every way in the last decade.   A complete failure of unimaginable proportions.  The Flames have merely dissapointed me and my lofty expectations.

 

Presently, we are close, only because the Oilers failed so badly (and possibly did other things) to be awarded Connor McDavid.

 

In the future:   I believe Connor McDavid should save the Oilers from further catastrophy.   He will make them "ok".    If he stays.   Meanwhile, the Flames continue to dissapoint me in a number of areas, but not nearly at the same level and only because I see the Stanley cup as the goal.    The Flames should surpass the Oilers, even with McDavid.    But I think it could be close, due to our own failures to reach the next level (see every other thread I've ever posted on).

 

In summary....no Stanley cups in sight for Alberta at this time.   Our teams may be "close", but our "rivaries" may be limited to regular season battles jockying for playoff spots.

 

The next true "Battle Of Alberta", I fear, is a long way off.   I may have seen as many games as Flyerfan by then

[Flyerfan52]

11 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I think for the most part we as posters stay fairly rational with each other, sometimes challenging with and for more discussion. We have a good forum here.

This board reminds me of the Flyers board is it's heyday (except that the fan base there was more diverse with fans from all over Europe. We even had pet trolls that although they admitted they were fans of other teams joined discussions on merit with no rancor. ). A fair bit of back & forth as we do have differing ideas/ideals as to how to build a team but by & large there is respect shown for others.

I don't know if it exists any more but a few years back the Buffalo MB was pretty good.

The Oilers board has always been rah rah Oilers with dissention frowned on. After the glow of the "Golden Boys" wore off with them remaining cellar dwellers you could almost smell hopelessness & dispair but once they were gifted McDavid they started acting like the tank years were just lies spread by opposing fans (fans of all other teams). There are a few shift distrurbers but most of the posters have blocked them for their less vanilla view points.

I've never honored the Canucks board with my presence since what posters here say about it combined with the children from that 1 convinced me it wasn't worth the time.