travel_dude Posted August 9, 2017 Report Share Posted August 9, 2017 3 hours ago, rickross said: Which Alberta team will win the Cup first?? We have the D and the Oilers have McD. They are looking at potential cap troubles for years to come while the Flames should operate with more flexibility to improve their team. If the Oilers can repeat their success from last season they could be considered strong contenders to make it to the finals. The Flames have a bit of a disadvantage with all new goalies and Hamonic still having to adjust to new coaches, systems and teammates not to mention GG isn't as established as Todd is. Overall I think we are better positioned to ice a competitive team for the foreseeable future, therefore we could have a slightly longer window to win not to mention a stronger stable of prospects. If the Oilers fail to do it with their existing group of players in the next 1-2 years they could be facing another rebuild scenario. Thoughts?? 2013-14 - 3rd last 2014-14 - 3rd last Year 1 of McDavid (abbreviated, but still 1/2 a season) and Talbot - 2nd last Year 2 of McDavid and Talbot - 2nd in the Pacific There's a lot of losing history to get over. Have seen it many times where a team goes from zero to hero to zero in the space of a few seasons. Not that I am suggesting a McDavid team doesn;t have a leg up, just that it takes continued improvement to stay a playoff team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted August 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 38 minutes ago, travel_dude said: 2013-14 - 3rd last 2014-14 - 3rd last Year 1 of McDavid (abbreviated, but still 1/2 a season) and Talbot - 2nd last Year 2 of McDavid and Talbot - 2nd in the Pacific There's a lot of losing history to get over. Have seen it many times where a team goes from zero to hero to zero in the space of a few seasons. Not that I am suggesting a McDavid team doesn;t have a leg up, just that it takes continued improvement to stay a playoff team. They invented losing! The interesting thing is the Flames have had more playoff berths in the last 10 years, 2nd round, Game 5 being the deepest they've gone. Technically you could argue the Oilers have had more success off the fact they took their 2nd round exit to game 7...against the same team that ousted us both times we've qualified. Sure they've suffered more losses than any other team for the last 10 years but in reality they've made it just as far as the Flames have...even after all the ineptitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted August 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 Well it's official! Welcome to cap hell Oilers! Leon at $8.85M/year...8 yrs-$68M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted August 16, 2017 Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 1 minute ago, rickross said: Well it's official! Welcome to cap hell Oilers! Leon at $8.85M/year...8 yrs-$68M Waves to the Oilers on the way out of that place!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted August 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 48 minutes ago, travel_dude said: Waves to the Oilers on the way out of that place!! I love it...we're essentially paying Monny, JH, Dougie Hamilton AND Harmonic the same as McLotto Max and Leon combined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted August 16, 2017 Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, rickross said: I love it...we're essentially paying Monny, JH, Dougie Hamilton AND Harmonic the same as McLotto Max and Leon combined. I don't have an issue paying players what they are worth. But to do so, you have to scrimp elsewhere. McDavid's deal is whatever. He gets whatever he wants. Draisaitl is a big risk for a one year top 10 scoring forward. As a center, he hasn't proven to be any better than Monahan. As a winger, he hasn't proven to be any better than Gaudreau. Proven is the key word. The only way the team stays affordable is if they fail to make the playoffs. That will mean that Strome, Nurse, Maroon, Caggiula, Benning, Brossoit, etc. weren't able to have good contract years. Keeps the team cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted August 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 It's overpayment...Sidney Crosby makes $8.7M, it's almost insulting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted August 16, 2017 Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 50 minutes ago, rickross said: It's overpayment...Sidney Crosby makes $8.7M, it's almost insulting It will get interesting in EDM from here on. I can't wait to see how they keep managing the revolving door there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted August 16, 2017 Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 2 hours ago, rickross said: It's overpayment...Sidney Crosby makes $8.7M, it's almost insulting Crosby signed a 12 year contract in 2012 under a lower cap. Malkin is paid 9.5 x 5 remaining. McDavid & Draisaitl will probably prove worth their cap hits but the unmovable Lucic contract will drag them down & the ask on RNH better drop to prospects/picks so they have $s to re-sign Nurse, Benning, Kassian, etc. with only $14 million left to fill a roster of 13 players. Then the next year Talbot comes up UFA . With $8 million in cap left & a full roster Chia better go for it this year but the situation gets tougher with Sekara expected to miss the 1st few months & then have to get in game shape after the surgery on his ACL. Top D are expensive & with the Oilers not being on GMs list of good to deal with RNH won't bring 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cccsberg Posted August 16, 2017 Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 27 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said: Crosby signed a 12 year contract in 2012 under a lower cap. Malkin is paid 9.5 x 5 remaining. McDavid & Draisaitl will probably prove worth their cap hits but the unmovable Lucic contract will drag them down & the ask on RNH better drop to prospects/picks so they have $s to re-sign Nurse, Benning, Kassian, etc. with only $14 million left to fill a roster of 13 players. Then the next year Talbot comes up UFA . With $8 million in cap left & a full roster Chia better go for it this year but the situation gets tougher with Sekara expected to miss the 1st few months & then have to get in game shape after the surgery on his ACL. Top D are expensive & with the Oilers not being on GMs list of good to deal with RNH won't bring 1. You never know what Vegas might be willing to do. RNH would probably look pretty darn good there as their #1C and I've heard they still have a glut of pretty good D available and likely need to trade one. Of course, that would subtract RNH from the Oilers with no one to replace him..... and so it goes. Pretty crazy number for Draisatl. For that matter, same can be said for Mcdavid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted August 16, 2017 Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 15 minutes ago, cccsberg said: You never know what Vegas might be willing to do. RNH would probably look pretty darn good there as their #1C and I've heard they still have a glut of pretty good D available and likely need to trade one. Of course, that would subtract RNH from the Oilers with no one to replace him..... and so it goes. Pretty crazy number for Draisatl. For that matter, same can be said for Mcdavid. No real reason to trade Nuge this year. Vegas might be willing to give up some later picks for him in 2018, not a 1st (lotto ticket). They only have a 1st, 2nd and PITTS 4th before you get into the later rounds. Not many teams are going to want a $6m with 3-4 years left, especially with his career highs of 24 goals and 56 points. And that was 3 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted August 16, 2017 Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 3 hours ago, rickross said: It's overpayment...Sidney Crosby makes $8.7M, it's almost insulting That's misleading. First of all Crosby signed his deal when the cap was at 64.3 ( was actually less but it kicked it at this point) and that was 13.5% of the cap. Draistil's is 11% of the cap. Second, Crosby was able to sign a now illegal back diving contract. Crosby is actually being paid 10.9 million this season and made 12 million his first 4 seasons but it drops to 3 million in his last 3 seasons. So not only can you no longer sign a contract for a 12 year term (8 is the max) you cannot structure it the way Crosby and the Pens did. Under today's CBA Crosby's contract would have been a 8 year deal, worth 86.4 million and be a cap hit of 10.8 Million per season. Under a 64.3 million cap that would be 17% of the cap which is more than both McDavid and Draistil signed for. Crosby is a really bad contract comparison due to all the changes in the CBA and the fact that you can't sign a deal like his anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted August 16, 2017 Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 It is a lot of money no doubt and it's more than I would have said 2 months ago but the Kunetsov and Ryan Johansen's deals it moved the needle to the 8.5 range so it's a market value deal. I thought maybe they would go more the 3-4 year bridge route and try and make a run of it with some of the other contracts they've got but I also understand there is a lot of risk in that strategy so not a bad one to lock him up when you can. While it is a risk, all deals are, shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the Oilers just locked up one of the best 1-2 Center combos in the league (now and potentially THEE best in 3-4 years) for the next 8 years. Sure depth is depth, but that kind of high end talent will keep you competitive for year's to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted August 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 34 minutes ago, cross16 said: That's misleading. First of all Crosby signed his deal when the cap was at 64.3 ( was actually less but it kicked it at this point) and that was 13.5% of the cap. Draistil's is 11% of the cap. Second, Crosby was able to sign a now illegal back diving contract. Crosby is actually being paid 10.9 million this season and made 12 million his first 4 seasons but it drops to 3 million in his last 3 seasons. So not only can you no longer sign a contract for a 12 year term (8 is the max) you cannot structure it the way Crosby and the Pens did. Under today's CBA Crosby's contract would have been a 8 year deal, worth 86.4 million and be a cap hit of 10.8 Million per season. Under a 64.3 million cap that would be 17% of the cap which is more than both McDavid and Draistil signed for. Crosby is a really bad contract comparison due to all the changes in the CBA and the fact that you can't sign a deal like his anymore. Fully aware of the CBA changes and taking when Crosby signed in to account. I'm just saying regardless of the time and CBA differences its still crazy that Leon Draisatl is earning the same annual income as Sydney Crosby especially based off one 70+ pts season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted August 16, 2017 Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, rickross said: Fully aware of the CBA changes and taking when Crosby signed in to account. I'm just saying regardless of the time and CBA differences its still crazy that Leon Draisatl is earning the same annual income as Sydney Crosby especially based off one 70+ pts season. He isnt. Crosby earns almost 11 and Drasitl earns 8.5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted August 16, 2017 Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 McDavid and Draisaitl at $21mil per? I'd do it. It makes me sad as a Flames fan. So let's focus on the next $21.5 for the next 4 players: $6 Lucic $6 RHN $5.5 Sekera $4 Russell rofl... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted August 16, 2017 Report Share Posted August 16, 2017 I figure it's a bad omen for the Leafs when they have to re-up Matthews & company. Doesn't bode well for the Jets either with Elhers next year & Laine the year after. Agents don't care about Scheifele having a ca[p friendly contract as that doesn't put $s in their pocket. Pastrnak can now ask for about 7.5 & justify it & I can't imagine what Eichel will ask to re-sign in Buffalo. Between this & the way UFA contracts are signing bonus laden either the best 3rd liners play for minimum & accept that as their lot or they speal up & we have another stoppage but this time with players wanting top salaries capped @ say 10% of the cap & limited to 2-3 players per team. There are only so many $s to fill out a team under a cap so when 2 take 28% while another 2 forwards take 12 off the remainer followed by the top 4 D eating 18 (& those are good contracts except for Russell) with a bargain in goal @ 4 that's 51 leaving 20 million for 12 players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
420since1974 Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 It appears that the current market is willing to pay big time for the Top line players. If this trend continues, the guys on the 2nd & 3rd lines could have a much tougher time getting decent dollars & term. Many of the bottom 9 forwards will need to be on ELCs or value contracts. I agree that this could become a large issue when negotiating the next CBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 3 hours ago, cross16 said: While it is a risk, all deals are, shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the Oilers just locked up one of the best 1-2 Center combos in the league (now and potentially THEE best in 3-4 years) for the next 8 years. Sure depth is depth, but that kind of high end talent will keep you competitive for year's to come. If that is what they have, then yeah it's a good 1-2 punch. What I tend to think they have is the best top line, with Draisaitl playing wing. He has to take a step forward to be a top center. He did well in the playoffs, but not so much in the regular season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted August 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 1 minute ago, travel_dude said: If that is what they have, then yeah it's a good 1-2 punch. What I tend to think they have is the best top line, with Draisaitl playing wing. He has to take a step forward to be a top center. He did well in the playoffs, but not so much in the regular season. That's the challenge they face...do they stack their top line by placing Leon on the wing? Or spread the wealth around by putting him as the 2nd line Center?He'll obviously be more productive playing on McDs wing but their offense would really start to thin out after their top line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted August 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 2 hours ago, cross16 said: He isnt. Crosby earns almost 11 and Drasitl earns 8.5. Yeah Crosby is making $10.9M while Leon will earn $9m...only $1.9M difference between the two...it's crazy Leon is THAT close to Sid already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 2 hours ago, travel_dude said: If that is what they have, then yeah it's a good 1-2 punch. What I tend to think they have is the best top line, with Draisaitl playing wing. He has to take a step forward to be a top center. He did well in the playoffs, but not so much in the regular season. I dont recall draisital playing much center in the playoffs, he was tried there when things werent going great and I personally didnt think he looked that great. As I asked in another thread the draisital vs bennett comparison is an interesting one, because I wonder how they would do if they were swapped, ie draisital centering our 3rd line and bennett on mcdavids wing. Draisital has not looked great at center, and has only been successful on mcdavids wing, so I wonder how good he will be at center. But it also shows you how hard it is to be a NHL center and drive your own line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 14 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said: I figure it's a bad omen for the Leafs when they have to re-up Matthews & company. Doesn't bode well for the Jets either with Elhers next year & Laine the year after. Agents don't care about Scheifele having a ca[p friendly contract as that doesn't put $s in their pocket. Pastrnak can now ask for about 7.5 & justify it & I can't imagine what Eichel will ask to re-sign in Buffalo. Between this & the way UFA contracts are signing bonus laden either the best 3rd liners play for minimum & accept that as their lot or they speal up & we have another stoppage but this time with players wanting top salaries capped @ say 10% of the cap & limited to 2-3 players per team. There are only so many $s to fill out a team under a cap so when 2 take 28% while another 2 forwards take 12 off the remainer followed by the top 4 D eating 18 (& those are good contracts except for Russell) with a bargain in goal @ 4 that's 51 leaving 20 million for 12 players. Lucic and RNH at 6M are a bargain now. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 Our future challenge should Bennett and Tkachuk break out and demand more money than what is being paid to JG and SM. Crazy stuff but I hope it happens as it will mean we have a darn good team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted August 17, 2017 Report Share Posted August 17, 2017 13 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said: I dont recall draisital playing much center in the playoffs, he was tried there when things werent going great and I personally didnt think he looked that great. As I asked in another thread the draisital vs bennett comparison is an interesting one, because I wonder how they would do if they were swapped, ie draisital centering our 3rd line and bennett on mcdavids wing. Draisital has not looked great at center, and has only been successful on mcdavids wing, so I wonder how good he will be at center. But it also shows you how hard it is to be a NHL center and drive your own line. To be fair, he took the 2nd most faceoffs, behind Nuge (1st) and ahead of McDavid (4th) and Letestu (3rd). Nuge was the leader by about 30 more. In the post-season, Draisaitl was 3rd. You would see Drai taking faceoffs with McDavid on the ice, especially during PP. Overall, he was 49%, which is quite good for a young guy. His size definitely helps. Monahan was 51.5%, Bennett 46.5% and Backlund 48.1%. Monahan and Backlund took about 50% more of the faceoffs than Bennet and Ragin' Stajan. As a team the Oilers were last in the NHL at 47%. The Flames wer 19th at 48.9% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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