rickross Posted July 23, 2017 Report Share Posted July 23, 2017 Thought it would be fun and interesting to discuss all things Flames/Oilers and explore the differences and similarities between the two storied organizations. It's been awhile since both teams have been not only competitive but legitimate potential contenders. Feel free to discuss anything future, past and presently related to both franchises. Players, drafting and development, management, coaches, contracts, arenas to mascots...lets chop it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted July 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2017 For starters how would you grade Brad Treliving vs. Peter Chiarelli? Both have lead their teams back to playoff berths and 2nd round exists. They both have acquired and signed assets that have benefited their respective teams but have also made some questionable and regrettable decisions. If you had to pick which of these GMs would you prefer running your team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 You said fun, so if I put my foot in my mouth all is forgiven, right? The first thing for me is, you have to take McDavid out of the equation...I'd love to hammer on draft lotteries, but I'll digress. I believe both GM's have a passing grade and have difficulty having a preference, but I'd go with Chiarelli. Chiarelli saw instantly the Oilers had to get tougher. He signed UFA Lucic, sure, bad deal. But adding Sekera, Maroon, Letestu and the Larsson for Hall trade were good moves that do make them a harder, more physical team. He signed Russell, their D was AHL level, Russell fits right in. He traded Schultz for a promise to dance with him at the prom, but what a cancer Edmonton was. He also signed Talbot who has been instrumental in their success. He signed Klefbom longterm for 4.15 per, that's a great signing. That roster needed upheaval, and he did it., when no one else could or would. Let's face it, Chiarelli replaced Lowe and MacT, so it's really easy to heap praise on him based on the median of a gutter, The Bouma signing, Stajan's $ on 4th line and really, Bennett has never been sheltered with good linemates. So in the forward ranks, I believe BT is failing us. He's working on the backend and I believe a team is still from the net out. But his work at forward.... Raymond? Bollig? Chiasson? Versteeg? I'm really excited with the backend, but our front end needs attention (dollars). So at the end of the day, I wonder if BT shouldn't have taken a scorched earth policy like Chiarelli did. And I really lean towards yes, he should have. Make it YOUR team, you can't be everyone's buddy. Too much $ on D and bottom 6 when he got here, imo scorched earth was warranted. But they say hindsight is 20/20, and I'm sure BT had more an overseer, whereas Chiarelli probably just rolled his eyes and they scattered about all a-scared, lol. This is an extremely difficult thread rickross, I'm just trying to be honest imo whether or not it invites me into a world of masochism. I've come here to learn, so everyone, start teaching, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 36 minutes ago, conundrumed said: You said fun, so if I put my foot in my mouth all is forgiven, right? The first thing for me is, you have to take McDavid out of the equation...I'd love to hammer on draft lotteries, but I'll digress. I believe both GM's have a passing grade and have difficulty having a preference, but I'd go with Chiarelli. Chiarelli saw instantly the Oilers had to get tougher. He signed UFA Lucic, sure, bad deal. But adding Sekera, Maroon, Letestu and the Larsson for Hall trade were good moves that do make them a harder, more physical team. He signed Russell, their D was AHL level, Russell fits right in. He traded Schultz for a promise to dance with him at the prom, but what a cancer Edmonton was. He also signed Talbot who has been instrumental in their success. He signed Klefbom longterm for 4.15 per, that's a great signing. That roster needed upheaval, and he did it., when no one else could or would. Let's face it, Chiarelli replaced Lowe and MacT, so it's really easy to heap praise on him based on the median of a gutter, The Bouma signing, Stajan's $ on 4th line and really, Bennett has never been sheltered with good linemates. So in the forward ranks, I believe BT is failing us. He's working on the backend and I believe a team is still from the net out. But his work at forward.... Raymond? Bollig? Chiasson? Versteeg? I'm really excited with the backend, but our front end needs attention (dollars). So at the end of the day, I wonder if BT shouldn't have taken a scorched earth policy like Chiarelli did. And I really lean towards yes, he should have. Make it YOUR team, you can't be everyone's buddy. Too much $ on D and bottom 6 when he got here, imo scorched earth was warranted. But they say hindsight is 20/20, and I'm sure BT had more an overseer, whereas Chiarelli probably just rolled his eyes and they scattered about all a-scared, lol. This is an extremely difficult thread rickross, I'm just trying to be honest imo whether or not it invites me into a world of masochism. I've come here to learn, so everyone, start teaching, lol. Just a note: BT did not re-sign Stajan. He was signed in Jan 2014 and BT was signed on as GM at the end April 2014. You may find fault with BT for many things but signing Stajan to the high dollar contract was not his doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 17 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said: Just a note: BT did not re-sign Stajan. He was signed in Jan 2014 and BT was signed on as GM at the end April 2014. You may find fault with BT for many things but signing Stajan to the high dollar contract was not his doing. I understand that. But it does support BT should have had a scorched earth policy to burn off players for a 7th and get rid of albatross low minute contracts. But I highly doubt he had a green light like Chiarelli, so it's very difficult to compare the 2. The circumstances are world's apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 My review of Treliving against Chiarelli. Since BT has been on the job since 2014 and Chia was hired in 2015, I will only compare BT's body of work starting in 2015 (Bouma and Raymond signing are off the hook). I will also exclude Chia's history with Boston. Chiarelli Trades http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/trade_list_by_GM/Peter_Chiarelli/284 Drafting: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00005632.html Key signings: Andrej Sekera 5.5x6 Milan Lucic 6x7 Oscar Klefbom 4.1x7 Signed coveted college free agent Drake Caggiula Connor McDavid 12.5x8 Zach Kassian 1.95x3 Mark Letestu 1.8x3 Kris Rusell 4x4 Cam Talbot 4.1x3 Treliving Trades http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/trade_list_by_GM/Brad_Treliving/275 Drafting http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00005090.html Key signings Mark Giordano 6.75x6 Johnny Gaudreau 6.75x6 Sean Monahan 6.37x7 Michael Frolik 4.3x5 Mikael Backlund 3.5x3 Dougie Hamilton 5.75x6 Troy Brouwer 4.5x4 Michael Stone 3.5x3 Micheal Ferland 1.75x2 Signed coveted college free agent Spencer Foo Chiarelli vs Treliving. TRADES Chiarelli- The Good Adam Larsson for Taylor Hall Cam Talbot for 2nd, 3rd and 7th round pick Patrick Maroon for Martin Gernat and 4th round pick Zach Kassian for Ben Scrivens The Bad Justin Schultz for 3rd round pick. I know this seemed like a good move at the time but Schultz has really blossomed into a solid defender since leaving EDM. Griffin Reinhart for a 1st and 2nd round pick Undecided Jordan Eberle for Ryan Strome Treliving- The good Dougie Hamilton for a 1st and 2 2nd round picks A 2nd and 3rd round pick for Curtis Glencross 2nd round pick and 4th round pick for Jiri Hudler Travis Hamonic for a 1st and 2 2nd round picks Michael Stone for a 3rd and 5th round pick Brian Elliott for a 2nd round pick. This move got the Flames into the playoffs Jyrki Jokipakka, Brett Pollock and a 2nd round pick (Dillon Dube) for Kris Rusell 2nd round pick for Sven Baertschi. This allowed the Hamilton trade to happen. The Bad Markus Granlund for Hunter Shinkaruk 3rd round pick for Brandon Bollig Undecided Mike Smith for Brandon Hickey and 3rd round pick Curtis Lazar for 2nd round pick The verdict- Chiarelli. He added a vezina caliber goalie, a top pairing d, a winger who can play a physical game and creates space for 97 and a solid bottom 6 energy forward. This was a very tough decision for me and I like Treliving's moves, but Chiarelli improved F, D and G and gave up fewer assets than BT who primarily addressed his blueline. Also I penalize BT for being unable to find a reliable #1. Drafting- players who I think will/have played (longshot I know lol) Chiarelli 2015- McDavid doesn't count Caleb Jones Ethan Bear 2016: Jesse Puljujarvi Tyler Benson Dylan Wells 2017: Kailer Yamamoto Stuart Skinner Treliving 2015: Rasmus Andersson Oliver Kylington Andrew Mangiapane 2016: Matthew Tkachuk Dillon Dube Tyler Parsons Adam Fox Matthew Phillips 2017 Juuso Valimaki Adam Ruzicka The verdict- Treliving. I have really liked CGY's last few drafts and I also feel their prospect pool is better and deeper than EDM's. Signings Chiarelli The good McDavid signing for 8 years Klefbom for 7 years Talbot for 3 years The bad Signing Sekera for 6 years Signing Lucic for 7 years Signing Russell for 4 years Signing Kassian for 3 years Treliving The good Monahan for 7 years Gaudreau and Gio for 6 years Frolik for 5 years Hamilton for 6 years Backlund for 3 years Ferland for 2 years The bad Stone for 3 years Brouwer for 4 years The verdict-Treliving. I know Tre has a history of bad signings, but nothing near as bad as Sekera and Lucic's contracts. Those 2 deals will hamstring EDM in the upcoming seasons. I do give Chia credit for signing McDavid for 8 years though. Ultimately, both guys deserve credit for turning their respective franchises around. Although CGY doesn't have a McDavid, all bias aside, I like the Flames, lineup, prospect pool and upcoming cap situation better than Edmonton's. Thanks for reading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlbertaBoy12 Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 52 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said: TRADES Chiarelli- The Good Adam Larsson for Taylor Hall Cam Talbot for 2nd, 3rd and 7th round pick Patrick Maroon for Martin Gernat and 4th round pick Zach Kassian for Ben Scrivens The Bad Justin Schultz for 3rd round pick. I know this seemed like a good move at the time but Schultz has really blossomed into a solid defender since leaving EDM. Griffin Reinhart for a 1st and 2nd round pick Undecided Jordan Eberle for Ryan Strome Treliving- The good Dougie Hamilton for a 1st and 2 2nd round picks A 2nd and 3rd round pick for Curtis Glencross 2nd round pick and 4th round pick for Jiri Hudler Travis Hamonic for a 1st and 2 2nd round picks Michael Stone for a 3rd and 5th round pick Brian Elliott for a 2nd round pick. This move got the Flames into the playoffs Jyrki Jokipakka, Brett Pollock and a 2nd round pick (Dillon Dube) for Kris Rusell 2nd round pick for Sven Baertschi. This allowed the Hamilton trade to happen. The Bad Markus Granlund for Hunter Shinkaruk 3rd round pick for Brandon Bollig Undecided Mike Smith for Brandon Hickey and 3rd round pick Curtis Lazar for 2nd round pick The verdict- Chiarelli. He added a vezina caliber goalie, a top pairing d, a winger who can play a physical game and creates space for 97 and a solid bottom 6 energy forward. This was a very tough decision for me and I like Treliving's moves, but Chiarelli improved F, D and G and gave up fewer assets than BT who primarily addressed his blueline. Also I penalize BT for being unable to find a reliable #1. Thanks for reading Well in all honesty I dont think you can look at larrsson as a top pairing D man and not include the hamonic trade as both are on par with each other.. I would say trades are awash between the two franchises, although I think the flames beat the oilers by a bit, as the reinhart trade was terrible, especially considering reinhart got taken in the expansion draft. Further it only looks worse when we traded an extra 2nd for hamilton, and the same trade again with an extra 2nd for hamonic. The granlund trade is way too early to tell, and honestly was always a long shot for shinkaruk to make a huge impact. Not to be overly critical on your opinion, as I agree with most of it, just had a couple thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 Oilers got here the dirty way. Tanking. Taking advantage of the system. Unethical. The Flames got here largely with honesty outside of the Monahan draft. Ethical. Moral. So therefore, obviously the Flames are the good guys. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 I think trying to compare Chiarelli to Treliving is a very difficult task. I get you can isolate their moves but one took over a team with 3 1st overal picks and then was handed one of the best prospects in the history of the game who has already turned into one of the games best. Chiarelli has done a couple nice moves but having the calibre of Mcdavid affords you the opportunity to make moves other GMs can't. Sure maroon looks great but play him without Mcdavid and is he a trade we pay any attention to? Imo it's Treliving hands down. Chiarelli has murdered their cap with several bad deals and even some of his wins are pretty overrated. Because if pieces like Mcdavid, drasaitl, klefboom and talbot the Oilers will be very good, but Chiarelli only acquired 1 of those players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 7 hours ago, cross16 said: I think trying to compare Chiarelli to Treliving is a very difficult task. I get you can isolate their moves but one took over a team with 3 1st overal picks and then was handed one of the best prospects in the history of the game who has already turned into one of the games best. Chiarelli has done a couple nice moves but having the calibre of Mcdavid affords you the opportunity to make moves other GMs can't. Sure maroon looks great but play him without Mcdavid and is he a trade we pay any attention to? Imo it's Treliving hands down. Chiarelli has murdered their cap with several bad deals and even some of his wins are pretty overrated. Because if pieces like Mcdavid, drasaitl, klefboom and talbot the Oilers will be very good, but Chiarelli only acquired 1 of those players. What get's me is how can anyone can justify the reasoning for paying McDavid 12.5M the highest in hockey after only 2 years. Hockey GMs never learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 All I will say is that with all these young talented players on both teams the Battle of Alberta is back with some real intensity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 8 hours ago, cross16 said: I think trying to compare Chiarelli to Treliving is a very difficult task. I get you can isolate their moves but one took over a team with 3 1st overal picks and then was handed one of the best prospects in the history of the game who has already turned into one of the games best. Chiarelli has done a couple nice moves but having the calibre of Mcdavid affords you the opportunity to make moves other GMs can't. Sure maroon looks great but play him without Mcdavid and is he a trade we pay any attention to? Imo it's Treliving hands down. Chiarelli has murdered their cap with several bad deals and even some of his wins are pretty overrated. Because if pieces like Mcdavid, drasaitl, klefboom and talbot the Oilers will be very good, but Chiarelli only acquired 1 of those players. Good summary. Chi looks like a genious because they had a breakout season, on the backs of McDavid's multi-point games and Talbot playing > 70 games. Two more wins than the Flames. Larsson is a good player, but they lost a high-scoring winger in the process. We received (arguably) two better D-man for a raft of picks only. Chia traded almost as much for a player they lost for nothing. Thos are the trades that make a huge difference. Trading Eberle for Strome, just so you can afford to spend $4m on Russell is not smart asset management. Signing McDavid first has set expectations for Draisaitl. The actual contract is perplexing. The actual salary for year 1 is $15m. He will be earning that much years before he reaches his prime, or at least that is typical of a forward. Worth it or not, it sets the new bar. In the process it has given EDM little room to manoeuver. Next year they have McDavid's deal, Draisaitl's deal, new RFA's such as Strome, Benning, Nurse, Caggiula, Pakarinen, and pending UFA's like Maroon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfire11 Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 Another question would be if Edmonton and Calgary both missed the playoffs next year Which GM Chiarelli or Treliving would have a job in 2019. Edmonton does not have the pipeline or assets to bounce back in 2019 if they miss the playoffs in 2018; where I see Calgary capable of a major bounce back after a bad year. I would pick Treliving as having the better asset and $ management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 10 hours ago, cross16 said: I think trying to compare Chiarelli to Treliving is a very difficult task. I get you can isolate their moves but one took over a team with 3 1st overal picks and then was handed one of the best prospects in the history of the game who has already turned into one of the games best. Chiarelli has done a couple nice moves but having the calibre of Mcdavid affords you the opportunity to make moves other GMs can't. Sure maroon looks great but play him without Mcdavid and is he a trade we pay any attention to? Imo it's Treliving hands down. Chiarelli has murdered their cap with several bad deals and even some of his wins are pretty overrated. Because if pieces like Mcdavid, drasaitl, klefboom and talbot the Oilers will be very good, but Chiarelli only acquired 1 of those players. Without (tanking to get) McDavid, the Oilers would not be able to make many moves. It was not long ago that players refused to go there. And if people remember, McDavid had the look of a Friday the 13th victim when the Oilers called his name. What is truly staggering is that they managed to ruin so much talent that fell to them. Hall has never quite been what he should have been. RNH and Eberle have been major disappointments. Yakupov is hardly even NHL caliber anymore. Chia simply ran a fire sale of #1 picks, traded away much of their future, and shot up to the cap just to contend. It remains to be seen what comes of it. Give a monkey the picks that fell to the Oilers and he will eventually produce a contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 5 hours ago, MAC331 said: What get's me is how can anyone can justify the reasoning for paying McDavid 12.5M the highest in hockey after only 2 years. Hockey GMs never learn. Becuase he is one of the best players in the game already after 2 years and barring injury will be for the duration of the deal. McDavid contract is not their problem. That was a slam dunk deal for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipper14 Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 From a straight hockey perspective, the BOA is back in full force and games are going to be INTENSE! Both teams on the rise and expectations are in place for both teams. It is going to be like our games vs the Nucks a few years ago where the rivalry was heated, and we had to try and slow down an in their prime Sedins, Nucks had to slow down Iggy and Co. Only now it is Mcdavid/Draisaitl vs Mony/Johnny It is obvious Treliving sent a CLEAR message stocking up on D, we need to be able to defend against McDavid, Draisaitl and company, after having gotten swept against the Coilers last season it had to be done.I also think Tre was looking at the possibility of a possible matchup with Edmonton I think playoffs are expected from us. We are going to need our forward groups to step up in the games vs the Oil this year, our defense and goaltending should be good enough to where we are in the games, our big guns are going to have to put the puck in the net. Season opener in Edmonton is going to be a stressful one! haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 56 minutes ago, cross16 said: Becuase he is one of the best players in the game already after 2 years and barring injury will be for the duration of the deal. McDavid contract is not their problem. That was a slam dunk deal for them. Yeah well I will never agree with that type of thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 3 hours ago, MAC331 said: Yeah well I will never agree with that type of thinking. You have to consider how much merch the Oilers push with McDavid also. He's a huge draw. If the Oilers weren't willing to do 12.5 per I guarantee 30 other teams would. It's big business and he is top of the box office. You can't argue he takes up too much cap, because Nashville says hello. They have a full roster now, could add McDavid and still be a million under the cap. Not bad for last year's SC Finalists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, conundrumed said: You have to consider how much merch the Oilers push with McDavid also. He's a huge draw. If the Oilers weren't willing to do 12.5 per I guarantee 30 other teams would. It's big business and he is top of the box office. You can't argue he takes up too much cap, because Nashville says hello. They have a full roster now, could add McDavid and still be a million under the cap. Not bad for last year's SC Finalists. How much leverage did the Oilers really have in this deal. Please McDavid, don't make us pay $15m per year. We give you a high signing bonus in case there is a strike/lockout. You can have a NMC in the last 4 years, but really that's really just preventing us from doing anything. You can ask to be traded anytime you get too PO'd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted July 24, 2017 Report Share Posted July 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, travel_dude said: How much leverage did the Oilers really have in this deal. Please McDavid, don't make us pay $15m per year. We give you a high signing bonus in case there is a strike/lockout. You can have a NMC in the last 4 years, but really that's really just preventing us from doing anything. You can ask to be traded anytime you get too PO'd. That's no different than signing any superstar, the team has no leverage. Jamie Benn was happy to sit, then they had to sign him or he'll sit all year and play AGAINST you next year. On his next contract, bang, $9.5, and he started threatening that it better get done early because of the bad feelings from the last contract. Leverage is on lesser players, not the stars with the NHLPA watching them closely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 3 hours ago, conundrumed said: That's no different than signing any superstar, the team has no leverage. Jamie Benn was happy to sit, then they had to sign him or he'll sit all year and play AGAINST you next year. On his next contract, bang, $9.5, and he started threatening that it better get done early because of the bad feelings from the last contract. Leverage is on lesser players, not the stars with the NHLPA watching them closely. Whatever so all the Drasaitl talk for 9.5M does he get that deal ? He wouldn't get it in Calgary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted July 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 On July 23, 2017 at 6:10 PM, conundrumed said: You said fun, so if I put my foot in my mouth all is forgiven, right? The first thing for me is, you have to take McDavid out of the equation...I'd love to hammer on draft lotteries, but I'll digress. I believe both GM's have a passing grade and have difficulty having a preference, but I'd go with Chiarelli. Chiarelli saw instantly the Oilers had to get tougher. He signed UFA Lucic, sure, bad deal. But adding Sekera, Maroon, Letestu and the Larsson for Hall trade were good moves that do make them a harder, more physical team. He signed Russell, their D was AHL level, Russell fits right in. He traded Schultz for a promise to dance with him at the prom, but what a cancer Edmonton was. He also signed Talbot who has been instrumental in their success. He signed Klefbom longterm for 4.15 per, that's a great signing. That roster needed upheaval, and he did it., when no one else could or would. Let's face it, Chiarelli replaced Lowe and MacT, so it's really easy to heap praise on him based on the median of a gutter, The Bouma signing, Stajan's $ on 4th line and really, Bennett has never been sheltered with good linemates. So in the forward ranks, I believe BT is failing us. He's working on the backend and I believe a team is still from the net out. But his work at forward.... Raymond? Bollig? Chiasson? Versteeg? I'm really excited with the backend, but our front end needs attention (dollars). So at the end of the day, I wonder if BT shouldn't have taken a scorched earth policy like Chiarelli did. And I really lean towards yes, he should have. Make it YOUR team, you can't be everyone's buddy. Too much $ on D and bottom 6 when he got here, imo scorched earth was warranted. But they say hindsight is 20/20, and I'm sure BT had more an overseer, whereas Chiarelli probably just rolled his eyes and they scattered about all a-scared, lol. This is an extremely difficult thread rickross, I'm just trying to be honest imo whether or not it invites me into a world of masochism. I've come here to learn, so everyone, start teaching, lol. It's a very difficult topic of discussion! There are many intricate variables that have shaped these 2 teams and the history between them is intertwined and looks to be repeating itself. Oilers had Gretzky and Messier now it's McDavid and Draisatl, Flames had Nieuwendyk and Fleury now it's Monny and Johnny. Both teams suffered game 7 Stanley Cup losses, fast forward a decade and both teams have undergone a rebuild(s) with berths to the playoffs. As abysmal as the Oilers have been all these years they've achieved the same playoff success as the Flames, that being a 2nd round berth. Both teams now appear to be in a position to compete even though they've gone about it in completely different ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickross Posted July 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 On July 23, 2017 at 7:29 PM, Thebrewcrew said: My review of Treliving against Chiarelli. Since BT has been on the job since 2014 and Chia was hired in 2015, I will only compare BT's body of work starting in 2015 (Bouma and Raymond signing are off the hook). I will also exclude Chia's history with Boston. Chiarelli Trades http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/trade_list_by_GM/Peter_Chiarelli/284 Drafting: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00005632.html Key signings: Andrej Sekera 5.5x6 Milan Lucic 6x7 Oscar Klefbom 4.1x7 Signed coveted college free agent Drake Caggiula Connor McDavid 12.5x8 Zach Kassian 1.95x3 Mark Letestu 1.8x3 Kris Rusell 4x4 Cam Talbot 4.1x3 Treliving Trades http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/trade_list_by_GM/Brad_Treliving/275 Drafting http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00005090.html Key signings Mark Giordano 6.75x6 Johnny Gaudreau 6.75x6 Sean Monahan 6.37x7 Michael Frolik 4.3x5 Mikael Backlund 3.5x3 Dougie Hamilton 5.75x6 Troy Brouwer 4.5x4 Michael Stone 3.5x3 Micheal Ferland 1.75x2 Signed coveted college free agent Spencer Foo Chiarelli vs Treliving. TRADES Chiarelli- The Good Adam Larsson for Taylor Hall Cam Talbot for 2nd, 3rd and 7th round pick Patrick Maroon for Martin Gernat and 4th round pick Zach Kassian for Ben Scrivens The Bad Justin Schultz for 3rd round pick. I know this seemed like a good move at the time but Schultz has really blossomed into a solid defender since leaving EDM. Griffin Reinhart for a 1st and 2nd round pick Undecided Jordan Eberle for Ryan Strome Treliving- The good Dougie Hamilton for a 1st and 2 2nd round picks A 2nd and 3rd round pick for Curtis Glencross 2nd round pick and 4th round pick for Jiri Hudler Travis Hamonic for a 1st and 2 2nd round picks Michael Stone for a 3rd and 5th round pick Brian Elliott for a 2nd round pick. This move got the Flames into the playoffs Jyrki Jokipakka, Brett Pollock and a 2nd round pick (Dillon Dube) for Kris Rusell 2nd round pick for Sven Baertschi. This allowed the Hamilton trade to happen. The Bad Markus Granlund for Hunter Shinkaruk 3rd round pick for Brandon Bollig Undecided Mike Smith for Brandon Hickey and 3rd round pick Curtis Lazar for 2nd round pick The verdict- Chiarelli. He added a vezina caliber goalie, a top pairing d, a winger who can play a physical game and creates space for 97 and a solid bottom 6 energy forward. This was a very tough decision for me and I like Treliving's moves, but Chiarelli improved F, D and G and gave up fewer assets than BT who primarily addressed his blueline. Also I penalize BT for being unable to find a reliable #1. Drafting- players who I think will/have played (longshot I know lol) Chiarelli 2015- McDavid doesn't count Caleb Jones Ethan Bear 2016: Jesse Puljujarvi Tyler Benson Dylan Wells 2017: Kailer Yamamoto Stuart Skinner Treliving 2015: Rasmus Andersson Oliver Kylington Andrew Mangiapane 2016: Matthew Tkachuk Dillon Dube Tyler Parsons Adam Fox Matthew Phillips 2017 Juuso Valimaki Adam Ruzicka The verdict- Treliving. I have really liked CGY's last few drafts and I also feel their prospect pool is better and deeper than EDM's. Signings Chiarelli The good McDavid signing for 8 years Klefbom for 7 years Talbot for 3 years The bad Signing Sekera for 6 years Signing Lucic for 7 years Signing Russell for 4 years Signing Kassian for 3 years Treliving The good Monahan for 7 years Gaudreau and Gio for 6 years Frolik for 5 years Hamilton for 6 years Backlund for 3 years Ferland for 2 years The bad Stone for 3 years Brouwer for 4 years The verdict-Treliving. I know Tre has a history of bad signings, but nothing near as bad as Sekera and Lucic's contracts. Those 2 deals will hamstring EDM in the upcoming seasons. I do give Chia credit for signing McDavid for 8 years though. Ultimately, both guys deserve credit for turning their respective franchises around. Although CGY doesn't have a McDavid, all bias aside, I like the Flames, lineup, prospect pool and upcoming cap situation better than Edmonton's. Thanks for reading Great post! That's how you do it! Very in depth review of both GMs, Conundrumed had a great break down as well. You do have to respect what both GMs have done for their teams. It's a tough comparison with both GMs having inherited very different teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 On 7/24/2017 at 0:02 AM, cross16 said: I think trying to compare Chiarelli to Treliving is a very difficult task. I get you can isolate their moves but one took over a team with 3 1st overal picks and then was handed one of the best prospects in the history of the game who has already turned into one of the games best. Chiarelli has done a couple nice moves but having the calibre of Mcdavid affords you the opportunity to make moves other GMs can't. Sure maroon looks great but play him without Mcdavid and is he a trade we pay any attention to? Imo it's Treliving hands down. Chiarelli has murdered their cap with several bad deals and even some of his wins are pretty overrated. Because if pieces like Mcdavid, drasaitl, klefboom and talbot the Oilers will be very good, but Chiarelli only acquired 1 of those players. I think we also need to remember what we all laughed at Edmonton for, in that they had all of these highly-touted guys but they couldn't get any supporting role players or dmen. While I agree Chiarelli is going to have to be really doing a lot of cap massage, he got better support players and their D is better. He can't account for a Sekera injury, but it's $5.5 (if I remember right) to LTIR to buy him some time. There are always a few teams that will take Lucic, err, a god awful contract away to either meet the floor or get some nice sweeteners in a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 20 minutes ago, conundrumed said: I think we also need to remember what we all laughed at Edmonton for, in that they had all of these highly-touted guys but they couldn't get any supporting role players or dmen. While I agree Chiarelli is going to have to be really doing a lot of cap massage, he got better support players and their D is better. He can't account for a Sekera injury, but it's $5.5 (if I remember right) to LTIR to buy him some time. There are always a few teams that will take Lucic, err, a god awful contract away to either meet the floor or get some nice sweeteners in a deal. They were only able to get Strome for a much better player in Eberle. If Lucic is worse than last year and continues his decline, they would need to retain half his salary just to get someone to listen and that is assuming he agrees to waive his NMC. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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