We are ̶A̶r̶e̶ ̶w̶e̶ a playoff bound team ̶?̶

[420since1974]

Wideman may well retire, he's been paid close to $43M over his 11 seasons in the NHL.

 

Many of the players that the Flames have parted ways with recently are done (or nearly so) in the NHL:

Agostino - AHL.

Colborne - playing poorly in Colorado.

Glencross - retired.

Grant - AHL.

Hiller - Switzerland.

Hudler - doing nothing in Dallas.

Jones - no contract this season.

Orito - Sweden.

Ramo - AHL.

 

Exceptions are:

Baertschi - career year in Vancouver (27 pts in 50 games).

Byron - career year in Montreal (29 pts in 54 games).

Granlund - career year in Vancouver (21 pts in 53 games).

Russell - last minute contract with the Oilers.

[conundrumed]

That's not bad on exceptions, imho.

We've got Bennett and Jankowski at low value next year, time to put a team together.

Bennett needs guys that play his game next year. Tkachuk does and will.

There's a lot to look forward to, imho.

[MAC331]

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

That's not bad on exceptions, imho.

We've got Bennett and Jankowski at low value next year, time to put a team together.

Bennett needs guys that play his game next year. Tkachuk does and will.

There's a lot to look forward to, imho.

Yeah we could look something like this next season.

Gaudreau, Monahan, Brouwer

Tkachuk, Bennett, Pribyl

Klimchuk, Backlund, Frolik

Ferland Jankowski, Chiasson

[conundrumed]

40 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Yeah we could look something like this next season.

Gaudreau, Monahan, Brouwer

Tkachuk, Bennett, Pribyl

Klimchuk, Backlund, Frolik

Ferland Jankowski, Chiasson

So no Bouma and Stajan?

[robrob74]

19 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

So no Bouma and Stajan?

 

Maybe one is picked by Vegas?

[MAC331]

8 hours ago, conundrumed said:

So no Bouma and Stajan?

That would be my preference, yes. I have tossed around a Stajan for Schenn ARZ as a deal for this TDL. ARZ has a young group that could use a vet such as Stajan as they lose Doan. There may be a deal here. Bouma is a player you could have in the line up or not but he isn't playing like a regular much anymore. I would play Ferland over him currently. If I had my preference I would trade Bouma and Hathaway plus to BOS for Jake DuBrusk LW if they would trade him.

I also like either Stone ARZ or Sustr TB as defensemen targets at the TDL. A few moves that would possibly help now and going forward.

[conundrumed]

13 hours ago, MAC331 said:

That would be my preference, yes. I have tossed around a Stajan for Schenn ARZ as a deal for this TDL. ARZ has a young group that could use a vet such as Stajan as they lose Doan. There may be a deal here. Bouma is a player you could have in the line up or not but he isn't playing like a regular much anymore. I would play Ferland over him currently. If I had my preference I would trade Bouma and Hathaway plus to BOS for Jake DuBrusk LW if they would trade him.

I also like either Stone ARZ or Sustr TB as defensemen targets at the TDL. A few moves that would possibly help now and going forward.

I think they're both players a lot a team's would take if we ate half of next years salaries. I have nothing against them. Put it this way, I like Hathaway, but our best 4th line is Ferland-Stajan-Bouma for me. Swap sides, whatev.

I wonder if we could package the 2 and take 2.75mil salary back on a failed venture for a year and say, a 3rd.

They get 2/3rds of a 4th line at the correct payscale, we get half back next year and an outlier pick.

I may be overlooking something, it's just a thought.

But the 2 are 5.3ish next year for 2 4th liners. If we can reclaim half of that I'd be happy, as I'm not optimistic without a buyout on Stajan. I believe we're still paying Raymond 1mil next year too...

At say 2 and 1 respectively, they would have some trade value as NHL-quality cheap fixes/depth.

[MAC331]

10 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I think they're both players a lot a team's would take if we ate half of next years salaries. I have nothing against them. Put it this way, I like Hathaway, but our best 4th line is Ferland-Stajan-Bouma for me. Swap sides, whatev.

I wonder if we could package the 2 and take 2.75mil salary back on a failed venture for a year and say, a 3rd.

They get 2/3rds of a 4th line at the correct payscale, we get half back next year and an outlier pick.

I may be overlooking something, it's just a thought.

But the 2 are 5.3ish next year for 2 4th liners. If we can reclaim half of that I'd be happy, as I'm not optimistic without a buyout on Stajan. I believe we're still paying Raymond 1mil next year too...

At say 2 and 1 respectively, they would have some trade value as NHL-quality cheap fixes/depth.

I wouldn't want to see us subsidize Stajan if he is going to ARZ, if they want I'm it will be for his experience qualities. We could throw in someone like Wotherspoon who might even get a chance to play there,

On the DuBrusk suggestion, I just think he would thrive here in Calgary. We need better players than Bouma and Hathaway (who is from that area). Rather than subsidize Bouma's salary I would hope BT could sweeten any deal in some other way.

[travel_dude]

On 2/9/2017 at 8:09 AM, MAC331 said:

That would be my preference, yes. I have tossed around a Stajan for Schenn ARZ as a deal for this TDL. ARZ has a young group that could use a vet such as Stajan as they lose Doan. There may be a deal here. Bouma is a player you could have in the line up or not but he isn't playing like a regular much anymore. I would play Ferland over him currently. If I had my preference I would trade Bouma and Hathaway plus to BOS for Jake DuBrusk LW if they would trade him.

I also like either Stone ARZ or Sustr TB as defensemen targets at the TDL. A few moves that would possibly help now and going forward.

 

Just wanted to ask this, as I have heard Stone's name thrown around a lot.  What is it about that player that excites you?  Here is a chart from another source, which shows one concerning things; relative cosri.   The X-axis is relative zone starts, the Y-axis is quality of competition based on the opponent's ice time, and the bubbles' colours are relative corsi. The zone starts and usage show he isn't sheltered, however.  Ignoring that for a minute, what doe the player bring to the Flames?

 

[MAC331]

7 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Just wanted to ask this, as I have heard Stone's name thrown around a lot.  What is it about that player that excites you?  Here is a chart from another source, which shows one concerning things; relative cosri.   The X-axis is relative zone starts, the Y-axis is quality of competition based on the opponent's ice time, and the bubbles' colours are relative corsi. The zone starts and usage show he isn't sheltered, however.  Ignoring that for a minute, what doe the player bring to the Flames?

 

All this aside I don't think you ever know what you have in a player until you have him in the situation YOU want him in. Will he be a solid partner for Brodie ? I don't know this for sure however I do know that Brodie needs someone more defensively orientated than himself so he can have the confidence to play his best. A GM has to look around and take stock of who is available to him for any need. If the Flames want a strong defensive first type partner for Brodie that is a RHS and cost 4M or less then he should be a target. Same for Sustr with TB possibly. Maybe Schenn would work well with Brodie, you definitely won't figure this out from any charts.

[JTech780]

 

Our playoff hopes may come down to how we play in these 7 games.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Just wanted to ask this, as I have heard Stone's name thrown around a lot.  What is it about that player that excites you?  Here is a chart from another source, which shows one concerning things; relative cosri.   The X-axis is relative zone starts, the Y-axis is quality of competition based on the opponent's ice time, and the bubbles' colours are relative corsi. The zone starts and usage show he isn't sheltered, however.  Ignoring that for a minute, what doe the player bring to the Flames?

 

 

With Stone it would come down to the pro scouts and how he has played recently. He's having a bad year because he had a pretty bad Knee injury late last season and generally I find a knee injury takes a while to recover from.  When healthy, I think he is exactly what the Flames need. RH shot, big body who can play physical but still move the puck, but you are right you do need to ask the question of what is he going to bring if he isn't 100%.

 

but, he's still better than Wideman IMO. Also I don't think its fair to judge Stone on Corsi. Pheonix is terrible so naturally their Corsi is going to be brutal. 

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

With Stone it would come down to the pro scouts and how he has played recently. He's having a bad year because he had a pretty bad Knee injury late last season and generally I find a knee injury takes a while to recover from.  When healthy, I think he is exactly what the Flames need. RH shot, big body who can play physical but still move the puck, but you are right you do need to ask the question of what is he going to bring if he isn't 100%.

 

but, he's still better than Wideman IMO. Also I don't think its fair to judge Stone on Corsi. Pheonix is terrible so naturally their Corsi is going to be brutal. 

 

His is the worst on the team, so worst of the worst.  Just about anyone is an upgrade to Wideman.

 

The question that needs to be answered is whether Stone makes this team better,  I can;t say I watch enough ARI games to give a fair appraisal, which is why I asked what people saw in him.  

[Cowtownguy]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

His is the worst on the team, so worst of the worst.  Just about anyone is an upgrade to Wideman.

 

The question that needs to be answered is whether Stone makes this team better,  I can;t say I watch enough ARI games to give a fair appraisal, which is why I asked what people saw in him.  

I just don't understand why the Flames give him so many minutes. Reduce the minutes, play a young 'un half of his minutes or so, and wait until we can bring up Kylington or Andersson. Maybe he sucks less if he plays less. 

[AlbertaBoy12]

32 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

I just don't understand why the Flames give him so many minutes. Reduce the minutes, play a young 'un half of his minutes or so, and wait until we can bring up Kylington or Andersson. Maybe he sucks less if he plays less. 

Which young  guy is going to step in and play top 4 minutes? Kulak is not ready and neither is wotherspoon. Its not just the minutes you have to think about its the quality of competition that I would worry about. As much as I want to replace wideman, there isent anyone to step into that role.  

[conundrumed]

16 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Which young  guy is going to step in and play top 4 minutes? Kulak is not ready and neither is wotherspoon. Its not just the minutes you have to think about its the quality of competition that I would worry about. As much as I want to replace wideman, there isent anyone to step into that role.  

Be that as it may, if Wideman is giving the other team 3-4 prime scoring chances/game, it's neither here nor there to keep saying younger guys aren't ready.

Wideman isn't ready and he's a vet.

I'm a big fan of Rhett's take, that younger guys will make mistakes and learn from them, Wideman just keeps making them...

 

As for the Stone chatter, how much do you think a 26(?)yo coming off of a $4mil per deal will want? A paycut?? Hjalmmarson is a 4.1 guy and I'm okay with that.

ARI has a lot of freed up cash next year, they can re-sign him. Do they want to?

Why not target a DeAngelo instead? I don't like him from Sting days, but I'll be fair that he's a puck mover. That turns it into an inexpensive prospects move that I'd be more in favour of.

[AlbertaBoy12]

3 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Be that as it may, if Wideman is giving the other team 3-4 prime scoring chances/game, it's neither here nor there to keep saying younger guys aren't ready.

Wideman isn't ready and he's a vet.

I'm a big fan of Rhett's take, that younger guys will make mistakes and learn from them, Wideman just keeps making them...

 

As for the Stone chatter, how much do you think a 26(?)yo coming off of a $4mil per deal will want? A paycut?? Hjalmmarson is a 4.1 guy and I'm okay with that.

ARI has a lot of freed up cash next year, they can re-sign him. Do they want to?

Why not target a DeAngelo instead? I don't like him from Sting days, but I'll be fair that he's a puck mover. That turns it into an inexpensive prospects move that I'd be more in favour of.

Not really the point. It doesnt do any good to throw a young dman under the bus and hope he develops by burying him, especially when I dont really think kulak/wotherspoon have top 4 potential. 

 

 Theres no gurantee that stone will want a huge raise, if he took 3.75 on a 3 year deal I dont think that would be unreasonable. How many D men have we seen go to free agency in the past few years thinking they would get top dollar and then getting nothing. Id prefer franson or kulikov over stone but thats just me.

 

 

[MAC331]

12 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Be that as it may, if Wideman is giving the other team 3-4 prime scoring chances/game, it's neither here nor there to keep saying younger guys aren't ready.

Wideman isn't ready and he's a vet.

I'm a big fan of Rhett's take, that younger guys will make mistakes and learn from them, Wideman just keeps making them...

 

As for the Stone chatter, how much do you think a 26(?)yo coming off of a $4mil per deal will want? A paycut?? Hjalmmarson is a 4.1 guy and I'm okay with that.

ARI has a lot of freed up cash next year, they can re-sign him. Do they want to?

Why not target a DeAngelo instead? I don't like him from Sting days, but I'll be fair that he's a puck mover. That turns it into an inexpensive prospects move that I'd be more in favour of.

I'm not sure you ever get the perfect player for your team at the TDL. I would like to see a move or two that addresses some help now and helps for a longer period. This is why I favor a deal with ARZ for Schenn using Stajan, throw in Wotherspoon if required. Schenn can play with Brodie for the rest of this season and replace Engelland leaving at the end of this season. Addressing our so called need for a RHS "top 4" as a partner for Brodie is a move that can happen in the offseason. Internally the question becomes is Andersson going to be good enough in a year or two to be that partner for Brodie ?

[MAC331]

45 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I'm not sure you ever get the perfect player for your team at the TDL. I would like to see a move or two that addresses some help now and helps for a longer period. This is why I favor a deal with ARZ for Schenn using Stajan, throw in Wotherspoon if required. Schenn can play with Brodie for the rest of this season and replace Engelland leaving at the end of this season. Addressing our so called need for a RHS "top 4" as a partner for Brodie is a move that can happen in the offseason. Internally the question becomes is Andersson going to be good enough in a year or two to be that partner for Brodie ?

Just another thought only because I am not real familiar what ARZ has in the pipe for defensemen. If we wanted to hang onto Stajan for a layoff push would ARZ consider Wotherspoon and Morrison for Schenn ? It doesn't appear these two will ever get a real opportunity here but could possibly in ARZ.

[JTech780]

28 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Just another thought only because I am not real familiar what ARZ has in the pipe for defensemen. If we wanted to hang onto Stajan for a layoff push would ARZ consider Wotherspoon and Morrison for Schenn ? It doesn't appear these two will ever get a real opportunity here but could possibly in ARZ.

 

I am not sure Arizona would give up an NHL defenseman for two guys who will probably never be full time NHLers.

[JTech780]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

I'm not sure you ever get the perfect player for your team at the TDL. I would like to see a move or two that addresses some help now and helps for a longer period. This is why I favor a deal with ARZ for Schenn using Stajan, throw in Wotherspoon if required. Schenn can play with Brodie for the rest of this season and replace Engelland leaving at the end of this season. Addressing our so called need for a RHS "top 4" as a partner for Brodie is a move that can happen in the offseason. Internally the question becomes is Andersson going to be good enough in a year or two to be that partner for Brodie ?

 

If we were to acquire Schenn I don't think he would be a good fit with Brodie. I think moving Engelland up to play with Brodie and have Schenn play with Kulak makes more sense. Schenn is an upgrade over Wideman, but not over Engelland.

[MAC331]

8 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

I am not sure Arizona would give up an NHL defenseman for two guys who will probably never be full time NHLers.

I disagree, I think either of these two with playing time at the NHL level can be 5 thru 7 useful to a team like ARZ. You know I watch Wotherspoon and he may be boring but I don't him make a lot of mistakes. Morrison you could be right about but what I saw at camp I liked that he was aggressive and there standing up for team mates.

[MAC331]

10 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

If we were to acquire Schenn I don't think he would be a good fit with Brodie. I think moving Engelland up to play with Brodie and have Schenn play with Kulak makes more sense. Schenn is an upgrade over Wideman, but not over Engelland.

Whatever, I think you are splitting hairs here and Engelland as been playing with all the younger defensemen all season. Give Brodie someone reliable enough to have the confidence to do his thing.

[JTech780]

24 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I disagree, I think either of these two with playing time at the NHL level can be 5 thru 7 useful to a team like ARZ. You know I watch Wotherspoon and he may be boring but I don't him make a lot of mistakes. Morrison you could be right about but what I saw at camp I liked that he was aggressive and there standing up for team mates.

 

Wotherspoon has had lots of chances, but he can't crack our terrible bottom 3, that isn't a good sign for his NHL future.

[cross16]

Schenn isn't a top 4 dman so i agree if you are acquring him to play with Brodie you will be very dissapointed and likely not make the D core any better. Schenn is a good physical dman who is very sound in his own zone but really struggles moving the puck effectively and that's not a good match in a top 4 blueline. 

 

problem with tring to acquire him as a bottom pairing dman is you shouldn't give up much in trade to get a bottom pairing dman and why would Arizone deal him for next to nothing? Their D core is pretty bad as it is, so i don't see them moving him unless you give them some value and that doesn't make sense for the Flames.