travel_dude Posted September 21, 2016 Report Share Posted September 21, 2016 Burke was a senior advisor, Lombardi and Holmgren were GM/Asst GM and given the players they picked, Tortorella actually fits. Torts is not the reason they lost, they lose becuase they brought a pretty bad team that was way too heavy on size and physicality and lacking in talent. USA reminded me of Canada in the last 90s where we thought that in order to beat the countries we had to be bigger, stronger and more physical to try and beat them up and nullify their skill. Looks to me like Team USA thought they could be big and strong, specifically on the blueline, and slow down the faster Team Canada. as it was for Canada in the 90s its an equally terrible strategy now. There are really no excuses why guys like Kessell, Okposo, and Shanttenkirk are not on this team and guys like Abdelkader where. They picked a very poor team, that is why they are out. I agree with what you say. Lombardi was likely the biggest reason for the choices. I don't think they would have won anything anyway with the way they played Canada. Torts made a bad choice in the played sat. No way Palmieri and Buff should have sat out any games. It's possible that he was the wrong personality to have in the room for that bunch. But I don't think he was responsible for their play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted September 21, 2016 Report Share Posted September 21, 2016 Quote from below from Joe Thornton captures what I was saying in a much better way. The fire coming off this line from @CraigCustance's USA piece burnt my hard drive (Insider) http://es.pn/2cmkrBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted September 21, 2016 Report Share Posted September 21, 2016 I agree with what you say. Lombardi was likely the biggest reason for the choices. I don't think they would have won anything anyway with the way they played Canada. Torts made a bad choice in the played sat. No way Palmieri and Buff should have sat out any games. It's possible that he was the wrong personality to have in the room for that bunch. But I don't think he was responsible for their play. I don't know, Buff looked AWFUL on that Duchene goal. I don't mind scratching Buff, he'd never play in a compeittion like this for me if I was the GM. USA hockey isn't in trouble though and as Canadians we shoudn't look down on them too much. They got really hurt by Team NA, much moreso than Canada, and I think if you put guys like Gaudreau, Eichel, Seth Jones and Brandon Saad on this version of Team USA combined with guys like Kessel and Shanttenkirk I doubt they are going home right now. I also doubt Lombardi would have put them on team but that underlines my take on Team USA. They have a very good hockey program, they just picked a really bad team of the available talent and got caught up in the team North America. Edit: I know people don't like to give McDavid and Matthews too much credit around here, but they both have looked VERY good in this trounament. Both have extremely impressed me and both are going to be studs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted September 21, 2016 Report Share Posted September 21, 2016 ^ ^ ^ Kessel has a broken hand but that didn't stop him from punking Team USA in a tweet. A real team guy there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xstrike Posted September 21, 2016 Report Share Posted September 21, 2016 ^ ^ ^ Kessel has a broken hand but that didn't stop him from punking Team USA in a tweet. A real team guy there. Even better, he said he can't put his finger on it... as in the finger on the broken hand in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted September 22, 2016 Report Share Posted September 22, 2016 I don't know, Buff looked AWFUL on that Duchene goal. I don't mind scratching Buff, he'd never play in a compeittion like this for me if I was the GM. USA hockey isn't in trouble though and as Canadians we shoudn't look down on them too much. They got really hurt by Team NA, much moreso than Canada, and I think if you put guys like Gaudreau, Eichel, Seth Jones and Brandon Saad on this version of Team USA combined with guys like Kessel and Shanttenkirk I doubt they are going home right now. I also doubt Lombardi would have put them on team but that underlines my take on Team USA. They have a very good hockey program, they just picked a really bad team of the available talent and got caught up in the team North America. Edit: I know people don't like to give McDavid and Matthews too much credit around here, but they both have looked VERY good in this trounament. Both have extremely impressed me and both are going to be studs. My only problem with McDavid has nothing to do with the player, He's young and hasn't been able to finish, but looks to be a great player. He hasn't shown in this tournament that he will win the Ross, The Hart and the Rocket Richard. All the hype in the world does not make him the best player in the world. Let him actually earn the title. McDavid will have a harder time this year finding space, so I don't think he will average a point a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted September 22, 2016 Report Share Posted September 22, 2016 JG really dragged the Swedes after him on the OT goal, unreal. He caused panic, is the way I see it. Now when my post gets all reformatted and centered out, I hope it reads okay, and not butchering the art of language to ride the contemptuous coattails of insidious gadgetry. Just sayin'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xstrike Posted September 22, 2016 Report Share Posted September 22, 2016 JG really dragged the Swedes after him on the OT goal, unreal. He caused panic, is the way I see it. Now when my post gets all reformatted and centered out, I hope it reads okay, and not butchering the art of language to ride the contemptuous coattails of insidious gadgetry. Just sayin'... I'm more impressed by the defensive positioning to get the puck from one of the Sedins before he sent it up the ice to the Swede for a breakaway. He pushed the guy aside to get to the puck first then got the puck to MacKinnon for the goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted September 22, 2016 Report Share Posted September 22, 2016 If/When they do this again they really need to consder changing the format. I think its totally unfair that NA won't be in the semis with a 2-1 record. Outside of a 4 minute lapse from Murray (and maybe an injury) they were the best team in their group hands down. They should be moving on. Need to either play a tiebreak or have Semis - QF. No more just group play and then straight into Semis. Cut down on the pre tournament games which I thought were too much anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted September 22, 2016 Report Share Posted September 22, 2016 If/When they do this again they really need to consder changing the format. I think its totally unfair that NA won't be in the semis with a 2-1 record. Outside of a 4 minute lapse from Murray (and maybe an injury) they were the best team in their group hands down. They should be moving on. Need to either play a tiebreak or have Semis - QF. No more just group play and then straight into Semis. Cut down on the pre tournament games which I thought were too much anyway. Have to agree with you there. Even if TNA beat Sweden in regulation, they would not have advanced with today's result. My biggest beef about it was that there were any B2B games in a 3 game round robin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted September 23, 2016 Report Share Posted September 23, 2016 If/When they do this again they really need to consder changing the format. I think its totally unfair that NA won't be in the semis with a 2-1 record. Outside of a 4 minute lapse from Murray (and maybe an injury) they were the best team in their group hands down. They should be moving on. Need to either play a tiebreak or have Semis - QF. No more just group play and then straight into Semis. Cut down on the pre tournament games which I thought were too much anyway. I disagree. The only format change should be the top ranked countries play in game 3, i.e. USA v Canada/Russia v Sweden. Team NA had to know that without beating Sweden in regulation that they'd be out. They're out and should be. Russia beat them, what's the problem? Everyone's playing by the same rules.... Sorry your love affair with NA ended, but all of that applies to every team and they know it coming in. Kudos to them for sure. But they weren't...quite...good...enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted September 23, 2016 Report Share Posted September 23, 2016 11 hours ago, conundrumed said: I disagree. The only format change should be the top ranked countries play in game 3, i.e. USA v Canada/Russia v Sweden. Team NA had to know that without beating Sweden in regulation that they'd be out. They're out and should be. Russia beat them, what's the problem? Everyone's playing by the same rules.... Sorry your love affair with NA ended, but all of that applies to every team and they know it coming in. Kudos to them for sure. But they weren't...quite...good...enough. I dont' agree with that. They dominated the Russians and if it weren't for Murray jamming his Thumb and not being able to recover from that there is no question in my mind they win that game. They were clearly the better team against Russia and i'm not sure how you argue otherwise. Team NA was the better team in all 3 of the games they played and I get in pro sports that doesn't matter so i'm not trying to say they should be moving on, but I definetly think they were the best team in that group. I get everyone is playing by the same Rules so i'm not saying what happened isn't the way it shoudln't have happened. I agree NA knew the rules and are out and that is that but for next go around I wuld change it and change it for 2 reasons. 1 if you are only going to play 3 round robin games then yes I will argue there needs to be a QF game to even things out. LIke NA showed us you can have 1 bad period in one of your 3 games and be out, but if you have a QF-SF situation I think you better ensure the best teams keep moving on. Secondly, I would do it to cut down on the pre trounament games which I think are stupid anyway. What do you think people are going to watch more a pre tournmanet game or a QF winner go on, loser go home game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xstrike Posted September 23, 2016 Report Share Posted September 23, 2016 1 hour ago, cross16 said: I get everyone is playing by the same Rules so i'm not saying what happened isn't the way it shoudln't have happened. I agree NA knew the rules and are out and that is that but for next go around I wuld change it and change it for 2 reasons. 1 if you are only going to play 3 round robin games then yes I will argue there needs to be a QF game to even things out. LIke NA showed us you can have 1 bad period in one of your 3 games and be out, but if you have a QF-SF situation I think you better ensure the best teams keep moving on. Secondly, I would do it to cut down on the pre trounament games which I think are stupid anyway. What do you think people are going to watch more a pre tournmanet game or a QF winner go on, loser go home game? I agree with you cross in that how the tiebreaker worked didn't suit my tastes. Maybe that's just me being used to soccer tie-breakers but I liked goal differential better than head-to-head. There is only 4 teams in a bracket, head to head just doesn't agree with me. If I remember right, I don't think NA would have won the other tiebreakers before goal differential though anyway. The exhibition games I think were to help players get ready to start playing again after the summer off. Maybe what could work would be to turn exhibition games into a round-robin seeding round, seed all the teams then start elimination play. To see how that would have looked for this tournament (with some cross-bracket play), it would be Group A (1) USA vs (4) Europe (2) Canada vs (3) Czech Republic Group B (1) Sweden vs (4) Finland (2) North America vs (3) Russia *ROW, then Regulation win used in tiebreakers Obviously, I'd have each team play each other instead of two games between same teams, but using what I have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted September 24, 2016 Report Share Posted September 24, 2016 I like the quality of hockey being played. I do. Canada is playing a stifling brand however.. way too safe. I still don't understand this tournament.. What is it? This a replacement so we can refuse to go to the Olympics? So lets have a preseason tournament when it won't interrupt the regular season? is this the thinking? Isn't this the time when your best players can get hurt easier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted September 24, 2016 Report Share Posted September 24, 2016 21 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said: I like the quality of hockey being played. I do. Canada is playing a stifling brand however.. way too safe. I still don't understand this tournament.. What is it? This a replacement so we can refuse to go to the Olympics? So lets have a preseason tournament when it won't interrupt the regular season? is this the thinking? Isn't this the time when your best players can get hurt easier? You make some good points. The WJC is in January. The Olympics and All Star break are in February. Why does the NHL want to have the best players play up to 7 games even before the season starts. Isn't the season already long enough without adding another 2 weeks. I love hockey, but it seems to be extending too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyerfan52 Posted September 24, 2016 Report Share Posted September 24, 2016 48 minutes ago, travel_dude said: You make some good points. The WJC is in January. The Olympics and All Star break are in February. Why does the NHL want to have the best players play up to 7 games even before the season starts. Isn't the season already long enough without adding another 2 weeks. I love hockey, but it seems to be extending too long. So let's eliminate the most useless thing. The so called all star game that none but the rookies seem to want to attend. It's not hockey as much as a pond game like the old timers in the heritage games (& those are @ least more worth a watch to see the former greats). The WJC is December/January when fans have some holidays & even casual 1s watch & some have a loyalty to a certain player. The idea seems to be to prep the fans for not sending NHL players to Korea. Why would they shut down for that as the location won't add fans & why chance players being hurt in games only NA fans will watch (often the next day after recording it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted September 24, 2016 Report Share Posted September 24, 2016 20 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said: So let's eliminate the most useless thing. The so called all star game that none but the rookies seem to want to attend. It's not hockey as much as a pond game like the old timers in the heritage games (& those are @ least more worth a watch to see the former greats). The WJC is December/January when fans have some holidays & even casual 1s watch & some have a loyalty to a certain player. The idea seems to be to prep the fans for not sending NHL players to Korea. Why would they shut down for that as the location won't add fans & why chance players being hurt in games only NA fans will watch (often the next day after recording it). Interesting suggestion.. however also kind of liked the 3 on 3 part of the All star get together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted September 24, 2016 Report Share Posted September 24, 2016 16 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said: So let's eliminate the most useless thing. The so called all star game that none but the rookies seem to want to attend. It's not hockey as much as a pond game like the old timers in the heritage games (& those are @ least more worth a watch to see the former greats). The WJC is December/January when fans have some holidays & even casual 1s watch & some have a loyalty to a certain player. The idea seems to be to prep the fans for not sending NHL players to Korea. Why would they shut down for that as the location won't add fans & why chance players being hurt in games only NA fans will watch (often the next day after recording it). Yes, meant to ay December/January. If they used the All Star break to play meaningful to fans hockey, players would be whining to play. The All Star game replaced with this format would sell like hot cakes. The rosters would be made up of healthy players mid-season. You wouldn't have the guys recovering in the summer from surgery. And you wouldn't risk losing a guy for the entire season. The players seem to want to go to the Olympics. The NHL doesn't like it because they lose revenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkRaving Posted September 24, 2016 Report Share Posted September 24, 2016 2 hours ago, travel_dude said: Yes, meant to ay December/January. If they used the All Star break to play meaningful to fans hockey, players would be whining to play. The All Star game replaced with this format would sell like hot cakes. The rosters would be made up of healthy players mid-season. You wouldn't have the guys recovering in the summer from surgery. And you wouldn't risk losing a guy for the entire season. The players seem to want to go to the Olympics. The NHL doesn't like it because they lose revenue. Thi$ I$ exactly why the NHL ha$ a World Cup of Hockey and don't want to play in the Olympic$. $imple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 Kudos to team Europe. I was all for hiring Kruger, if only to really stab the North even harder lol. Some kinda coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 14 hours ago, conundrumed said: Kudos to team Europe. I was all for hiring Kruger, if only to really stab the North even harder lol. Some kinda coach. I had no problem with Kruger either, guy is a very good coach who the Oilers should never have fired. Too bad he's got such a great job and apparantly under contract for the next few years. Apparantly he makes pretty crazy $ doing what he does at Southhampton so who knows if we will ever see him coach in the league again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted September 30, 2016 Report Share Posted September 30, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted September 30, 2016 Report Share Posted September 30, 2016 Bravo Team Canada! Bravo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted September 30, 2016 Report Share Posted September 30, 2016 Thank god that is over now we can get back to real hockey. This tournament was boring, the games didn't mean anything. At least there won't be another one for 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulstad Posted September 30, 2016 Report Share Posted September 30, 2016 As much as I'm happy Canada won, Canada didn't deserve this win. Team Europe outplayed them every step of the way for the entire game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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