What Is Best For Matthew Tkachuk

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

The reported ask from Marner for a 3 year bridge deal is 10m.

That's insane.

That would set him up for an even bigger payday on a long term deal.

TBH, even 5 years at 10m is way too much for a winger.

He's been good to great and their best player in the plyoffs, but let's face it; he's won nothing for the Leafs.

 

The only reason I even bring it up is that this talk filters to the other players.

Tkachuk.

Laine.

Connor.

 

No one is denying thier impact or worth, but the Leafs are screwing up the cap more than the Oilers ever did.

The LTIR issue is due to the Leafs and another couple of teams that use and abuse it.

Compliance buyouts will be needed to save the GM's from themselves at the next CBA.

 

That’s what I’ve been saying, that players should only get paid if they’re winners. What have you done? A lot have won nothing and the leafs can’t evem get out of the first round. 

 

Take for instance, Tkachuk, I think he deserves 6.5-7.5. I am being generous on the upper scale and think the lower scale is my real thought.

 

you're right. The contracts are getting bad and a whole lot of different wrongs in them. Like bonus structure and how much they get. Lockout.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

The reported ask from Marner for a 3 year bridge deal is 10m.

That's insane.

That would set him up for an even bigger payday on a long term deal.

TBH, even 5 years at 10m is way too much for a winger.

He's been good to great and their best player in the plyoffs, but let's face it; he's won nothing for the Leafs.

 

The only reason I even bring it up is that this talk filters to the other players.

Tkachuk.

Laine.

Connor.

 

No one is denying thier impact or worth, but the Leafs are screwing up the cap more than the Oilers ever did.

The LTIR issue is due to the Leafs and another couple of teams that use and abuse it.

Compliance buyouts will be needed to save the GM's from themselves at the next CBA.

 

All eyes are on Marner.

 

Or actually, all eyes are on Dubas because he screwed up Matthews royally and then completely bent over for Nylander.

 

Honestly, no one is looking at Aho, or even Tkachuk, Laine, etc.  Only looking at Marner and Dubas.  Because Dubas is such an All Star GM.

[travel_dude]

43 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

That’s what I’ve been saying, that players should only get paid if they’re winners. What have you done? A lot have won nothing and the leafs can’t evem get out of the first round. 

 

Take for instance, Tkachuk, I think he deserves 6.5-7.5. I am being generous on the upper scale and think the lower scale is my real thought.

 

you're right. The contracts are getting bad and a whole lot of different wrongs in them. Like bonus structure and how much they get. Lockout.

 

I think you might undervalue him a bit.

Somewhere in the middle.

Yes, he didn;t win anything for us.

JH signed a deal for 9.25% of the cap and he didn;t win anything either.

He was as valuable to the team then as Tkachuk is today.

That would be 7.5m today.

And that's not 8 years.

3 years gets him to UFA.

3 more years buying UFA years at that cost is reasonable.

 

Ignoring the noise from other teams, he should get paid his value.

McDavid making 16% at that time is their problem.

Tkachuk being locked up ffor 6 years at 9.25% makes sense to me.

If you get two extra years without a huge impact, then so be it.

 

My beef is with Dubas.  Chia and the Oilers started a lot of the noise, but you could argue their top 2 is wrth it.

 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think you might undervalue him a bit.

Somewhere in the middle.

Yes, he didn;t win anything for us.

JH signed a deal for 9.25% of the cap and he didn;t win anything either.

He was as valuable to the team then as Tkachuk is today.

That would be 7.5m today.

And that's not 8 years.

3 years gets him to UFA.

3 more years buying UFA years at that cost is reasonable.

 

Ignoring the noise from other teams, he should get paid his value.

McDavid making 16% at that time is their problem.

Tkachuk being locked up ffor 6 years at 9.25% makes sense to me.

If you get two extra years without a huge impact, then so be it.

 

My beef is with Dubas.  Chia and the Oilers started a lot of the noise, but you could argue their top 2 is wrth it.

 

 

Ya, I will take that. I don’t buy that he is worth 8m+ 

[Irocke99]

BT made his two best players sweat two years ago SM and JG. Which I think ruins the player relationship a bit.  BT seems more eager in his thoughts regarding Chucky. Money up front and a 7 year deal is worth it. He's 21 and 3 years from now becomes a man savage. I say, 7.7 over 7 years.

[robrob74]

11 minutes ago, Irocke99 said:

BT made his two best players sweat two years ago SM and JG. Which I think ruins the player relationship a bit.  BT seems more eager in his thoughts regarding Chucky. Money up front and a 7 year deal is worth it. He's 21 and 3 years from now becomes a man savage. I say, 7.7 over 7 years.

 

I just think that players are looking at the long term deals of the past and not going for it because they feel their going to end up at the lower end of salary. Subban is one where it backfired but players like Crosby are now worth more. 

 

I thinknit will also ruin team cap in the long run. 

 

Or even Johnny is probably worth 8.5 now, maybe even 9 if you’re giving that or more to Matthews and Marner. So Johnny and Monny are at a very good discount now when you take that into consideration.

 

i feel like they’re about 1-2m overpriced. 

[Irocke99]

48 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I just think that players are looking at the long term deals of the past and not going for it because they feel their going to end up at the lower end of salary. Subban is one where it backfired but players like Crosby are now worth more. 

 

I thinknit will also ruin team cap in the long run. 

 

Or even Johnny is probably worth 8.5 now, maybe even 9 if you’re giving that or more to Matthews and Marner. So Johnny and Monny are at a very good discount now when you take that into consideration.

 

i feel like they’re about 1-2m overpriced. 

So, probably a 5 year deal then.

[The_People1]

Again, i feel if BT can get Tkachuk a high level scoring linemate, like a Nylander for example, then Tkachuk could be more than happy to take less money because he knows he can pad his stats for his next contract.  If we give him Frolik especially, then Tkachuk will be smart to just max out his earning potential while he can right now.

 

Not saying it's easy but i think that's what we are looking at.  

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

Again, i feel if BT can get Tkachuk a high level scoring linemate, like a Nylander for example, then Tkachuk could be more than happy to take less money because he knows he can pad his stats for his next contract.  If we give him Frolik especially, then Tkachuk will be smart to just max out his earning potential while he can right now.

 

Not saying it's easy but i think that's what we are looking at.  

 

He did say the Matthews deal sets the market. 

[Thebrewcrew]

Steinberg, who’s quite plugged in with the Flames, says last he’s heard the Flames and Tkachuk are hardly talking at the moment. I’d say there’s a good chance he misses parts of training camp at minimum

[cross16]

That’s not a surprise. There’s not much to chat about. They know their parameters and until someone signs to raise the bar, or things get close to missing time or paycheques there’s no stress on this 

I think Tkachuk signs before training camp but it’s going to go into September. 

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, cross16 said:

That’s not a surprise. There’s not much to chat about. They know their parameters and until someone signs to raise the bar, or things get close to missing time or paycheques there’s no stress on this 

I think Tkachuk signs before training camp but it’s going to go into September. 

 

Ya agreed.  Likely everything that needs to be said has been said.  Just waiting for one of the other dominoes to fall first.

[phoenix66]

10 hours ago, cross16 said:

That’s not a surprise. There’s not much to chat about. They know their parameters and until someone signs to raise the bar, or things get close to missing time or paycheques there’s no stress on this 

I think Tkachuk signs before training camp but it’s going to go into September. 

Agreed , I'm not too concerned at this point .

BT has stated he's confident he'll sign before camp. He never said that about Johnny, and Toronto certainly isn't saying that about Marner.

In past cases he always have his stock " it's only down to term and money now " answer 

 

Derek Wills had an opinion that the parameters may already be in place but things like moving money may need to happen first. ( A possibility, not a prediction) 

Yea a team can exceed the cap during offseason but being over would kill any leverage they have to get a good return on guys like Frolik and Brodie for example 

In those cases I'm sure he already has dump offers but won't use them until absolutely necessary

I get no sense from any side that there is any tension or fear of not getting something done in time 

[420since1974]

 

[jjgallow]

8 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

In past cases he always have his stock " it's only down to term and money now " answer 

 

classic 

[The_People1]

Nothing ground breaking but this is the latest from Eric Francis,

 

https://lastwordonhockey.com/2019/08/12/nhl-rumours-calgary-flames-san-jose-sharks-edmonton-oilers/

 

"On the Tkachuk contract front, Francis mentioned that the Flames have offered up two, five, and seven-year deals. Management is also investigating a two-year bridge deal. Tkachuk could possibly not be signed to start the season. That seems to be the way things are going for top flite RFAs who are still not signed. Francis mentioned that Tkachuk more than likely isn’t interested in a seven-year deal. He wants a similar deal length that Auston Matthews was given and that could be difficult. He may be sitting at the start of the season… and where have we heard that before?"

[rickross]

Well with Valimaki out this really makes this an interesting signing. Either we move Frolik and keep Brodie now or sign Tkachuk to a 2 yr at appx $5M?

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Nothing ground breaking but this is the latest from Eric Francis,

 

https://lastwordonhockey.com/2019/08/12/nhl-rumours-calgary-flames-san-jose-sharks-edmonton-oilers/

 

"On the Tkachuk contract front, Francis mentioned that the Flames have offered up two, five, and seven-year deals. Management is also investigating a two-year bridge deal. Tkachuk could possibly not be signed to start the season. That seems to be the way things are going for top flite RFAs who are still not signed. Francis mentioned that Tkachuk more than likely isn’t interested in a seven-year deal. He wants a similar deal length that Auston Matthews was given and that could be difficult. He may be sitting at the start of the season… and where have we heard that before?"

 

Good ole Francis trying to increase his readership.

He's no more connected than Steinberg, who hadn't heard that.

The Flames don't talk to reporters when they are working on a deal.

Nothing to see here, move along.

[phoenix66]

I do feel strongly that this whole thing is out of hand , and some team needs to make a statement by letting one of these players sit .

My biggest issue is with "percentage of cap ".. I'm sorry , guaranteed it was an agent that came up with it , but its a joke that is creating this mess.. as well as this is one of the first true crops of RFA's who grew up getting participation trophies .

 

In no way should any player in this league be getting paid more than Sidney Crosby.. not his biggest fan , but he has won Harts, Scoring Trophies, Stanley Cups , and I believe a Conn Smythe as well?

Not even McDavid is worth it yet .. what has he done ?  ok , scoring and Hart.. but hes nowhere near the credentials of Crosby 

Gio has won a Norris, been in the conversation many times.. Johnny is a true superstar .. they should be our highest paid players , period .. I'm sorry but Matthew hasn't earned it to be our highest paid player .. i could accept equal , but not more.. but he will likely get it 

 

In No world is Marner worth more money that Crosby, or even Tavares for that matter .. hes looked good coming out of his entry deal .. awesome , but hes gonna get over $10 M most likely 

Dubas needed to let Nylander rot on the vine last year , but he caved ..  at some point one of these kids need to be told, here is your offer .. call when you are ready to sign it.

[redfire11]

38 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

this is one of the first true crops of RFA's who grew up getting participation trophies

Nailed this ^

[Thebrewcrew]

1 hour ago, phoenix66 said:

I do feel strongly that this whole thing is out of hand , and some team needs to make a statement by letting one of these players sit .

My biggest issue is with "percentage of cap ".. I'm sorry , guaranteed it was an agent that came up with it , but its a joke that is creating this mess.. as well as this is one of the first true crops of RFA's who grew up getting participation trophies .

 

In no way should any player in this league be getting paid more than Sidney Crosby.. not his biggest fan , but he has won Harts, Scoring Trophies, Stanley Cups , and I believe a Conn Smythe as well?

Not even McDavid is worth it yet .. what has he done ?  ok , scoring and Hart.. but hes nowhere near the credentials of Crosby 

Gio has won a Norris, been in the conversation many times.. Johnny is a true superstar .. they should be our highest paid players , period .. I'm sorry but Matthew hasn't earned it to be our highest paid player .. i could accept equal , but not more.. but he will likely get it 

 

In No world is Marner worth more money that Crosby, or even Tavares for that matter .. hes looked good coming out of his entry deal .. awesome , but hes gonna get over $10 M most likely 

Dubas needed to let Nylander rot on the vine last year , but he caved ..  at some point one of these kids need to be told, here is your offer .. call when you are ready to sign it.

You make several really good points, but how’s a guy supposed to feed his family making ****only**** 6 million a season ?

[cccsberg]

36 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

You make several really good points, but how’s a guy supposed to feed his family making ****only**** 6 million a season ?

Although inflation is a natural price inflator, I generally agree with what you are saying.  To me, let them all sit, or sign a season-proportional salary when you’re ready to play.  Hey, if they all sit the Flames may actually come out ahead because the impact of missing Tkachuk is quite often less than other strong teams (e.g. COL, TBL, TOR...).  

 

In this whole discussion where do the fans come in?  Why should we be paying $100-$250/pp/game, plus $20 parking, plus $12 beers and $6 hot dogs just to take the kids out to a game a couple times a year?  Talk about ridiculous?!

[sak22]

3 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

I do feel strongly that this whole thing is out of hand , and some team needs to make a statement by letting one of these players sit .

My biggest issue is with "percentage of cap ".. I'm sorry , guaranteed it was an agent that came up with it , but its a joke that is creating this mess.. as well as this is one of the first true crops of RFA's who grew up getting participation trophies .

 

In no way should any player in this league be getting paid more than Sidney Crosby.. not his biggest fan , but he has won Harts, Scoring Trophies, Stanley Cups , and I believe a Conn Smythe as well?

Not even McDavid is worth it yet .. what has he done ?  ok , scoring and Hart.. but hes nowhere near the credentials of Crosby 

Gio has won a Norris, been in the conversation many times.. Johnny is a true superstar .. they should be our highest paid players , period .. I'm sorry but Matthew hasn't earned it to be our highest paid player .. i could accept equal , but not more.. but he will likely get it 

 

In No world is Marner worth more money that Crosby, or even Tavares for that matter .. hes looked good coming out of his entry deal .. awesome , but hes gonna get over $10 M most likely 

Dubas needed to let Nylander rot on the vine last year , but he caved ..  at some point one of these kids need to be told, here is your offer .. call when you are ready to sign it.

Keep in mind Crosby signed a 12 year deal that was front loaded it was worth 104m and he's already earned the majority of that money, he's made far more money than his cap hit indicates and the cap was almost 20m lower.  I do agree that the best should be the highest, but thats just not how pro-sports work.  I don't know what these players are asking for, but I have a feeling that the issue is that the players are wanting to follow Matthews and take the deals that don't eat up 2 or 3 UFA years.

[cccsberg]

11 hours ago, sak22 said:

Keep in mind Crosby signed a 12 year deal that was front loaded it was worth 104m and he's already earned the majority of that money, he's made far more money than his cap hit indicates and the cap was almost 20m lower.  I do agree that the best should be the highest, but thats just not how pro-sports work.  I don't know what these players are asking for, but I have a feeling that the issue is that the players are wanting to follow Matthews and take the deals that don't eat up 2 or 3 UFA years.

I'd bet that is an issue.  Thanks, Dubas!  I believe Meier did essentially the same with SJS, having a $10mm final year salary so the team would not be able to give him a reasonable qualifying offer his last RFA year.  And of course many of these new contracts are very heavily-weighted with annual signing bonuses so the player is unaffected with a strike.  You have to wonder what the vast majority of players are feeling towards the elite handful at the top?  

[travel_dude]

31 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

I'd bet that is an issue.  Thanks, Dubas!  I believe Meier did essentially the same with SJS, having a $10mm final year salary so the team would not be able to give him a reasonable qualifying offer his last RFA year.  And of course many of these new contracts are very heavily-weighted with annual signing bonuses so the player is unaffected with a strike.  You have to wonder what the vast majority of players are feeling towards the elite handful at the top?  

 

The QO is meaningless if the player re-signs before the end of the season.

The structire of his next deal will depend on the new CBA, SJS's future, and Meier's stats line.

 

The salary cap system was put in place to help out the GM's but they ruined the system.  Again.

Some know how to play, some don't.