What Is Best For Matthew Tkachuk

[MAC331]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

What he has done with such limited minutes is impressive.  Can a young player that plays the physical way he does keep it up for 40 or 80-ish games?  And will his growth be as good playing in limited minutes or better playing 20+ minutes in junior.  Your guess is as good as mine.  It's different being physical against 17-18 year old players than against guys in their 20-30's that make teenagers look like kids. 

 

Let me throw out a hybrid solution for comments:

 

Play Tkachuk between now and the World Juniors.

Allow him to go there to develop his craft and be a big part of the US team.

He comes back to Calgary with a bit of swagger.

Continue to play him and make final decision at 40 game mark.

I think if you go that route you just keep him here. I like the WJ idea for him.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

I hope beyond hope that we don't fall prey to keeping him past 9 games and reduce his minutes/gm to minimal by game 11.

Is it time to draw comparison to what happens with Puljujarvi in Edmonton, who doesn't quite look ready but I believe can go to the A?

I'm on the fence, but there's no reason to get angry zima lol.

In related news, HF board seems to think Chychrun wasn't just a draft steal, he's been ARI's best on the ice in a couple of games and definitely one of their top dmen after OEL. To quote Tippett, "we want to play guys that can help us win, and he is definitely one of them".

Sounds like a lot of crow for NHL scouts to choke down, lol.

 

I wonder about Tippett.  He's been making strange coaching decisions this year (for one).  While I do agree with the assessment of him helping the team win, they aren't exactly winning a lot right now.  

 

I do share your concern about Matt, but I think that BT has his nose in there.  Usage of some players last year was a GM concern.  That's not going to happen this year.  And, there is no line between Puljujarvi and Tkachuk.  They have had different pre-seasons and regular NHL games.  The Oilers don't care if they throw away a development year on the kid; they just get a new set of balls in the summer.  I don't think he is ready for NHL speed.  Tkachuk is not the same style of player, so speed isn't hurting him as much.  HE's also learning a 2 way game with the best pair.  He may not get 20 goals this season (assuming he plays 80), but he will be more NHL ready come next year.

 

Next year, we will likely have a few less vets on the team to learn from.  I am leaning towards keeping him for the year, maybe giving him the WJC to supplement his confidence.

[conundrumed]

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I wonder about Tippett.  He's been making strange coaching decisions this year (for one).  While I do agree with the assessment of him helping the team win, they aren't exactly winning a lot right now.  

 

I do share your concern about Matt, but I think that BT has his nose in there.  Usage of some players last year was a GM concern.  That's not going to happen this year.  And, there is no line between Puljujarvi and Tkachuk.  They have had different pre-seasons and regular NHL games.  The Oilers don't care if they throw away a development year on the kid; they just get a new set of balls in the summer.  I don't think he is ready for NHL speed.  Tkachuk is not the same style of player, so speed isn't hurting him as much.  HE's also learning a 2 way game with the best pair.  He may not get 20 goals this season (assuming he plays 80), but he will be more NHL ready come next year.

 

Next year, we will likely have a few less vets on the team to learn from.  I am leaning towards keeping him for the year, maybe giving him the WJC to supplement his confidence.

Not to disagree with the entirety, but yeah.

Tkachuk and Puljujarvi compare perfectly.

What did I think I drafted: a 30+ goal winger.

Are they that at 18? No.

Will patience help that?

The $1,000,000 question.

[cross16]

I think its pretty safe to say that Tkachuk will play his 10th game becuase they havn't sent him down and so far this is zero indication they will. I personally would send him down to Junior, not because his doesn't deserve to be up here but I do think that is what is best for him. 

 

I'm not really concerend about the 10 game thing though so I have no problem if they want to keep him up a litle longer and wait till the 40 game mark. If he is in the NHL then i think releasing him to the World Juniors only makes sense if they don't plan on bringing him back to the NHL. If he is going to stay in the NHL he stays in the NHL the whole season. 

 

 

[The_People1]

He's done well but he is physically not ready.  He plays on the edge and already 10 games in, it seems it's taking a toll on him.  Compare him now to his first preseason game, he has slowed it down a bit.  

 

I would send him down and get him to add more bulk in his legs and come back next season with an added 10 lbs of muscle and then we're talking.  

[MAC331]

14 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

He's done well but he is physically not ready.  He plays on the edge and already 10 games in, it seems it's taking a toll on him.  Compare him now to his first preseason game, he has slowed it down a bit.  

 

I would send him down and get him to add more bulk in his legs and come back next season with an added 10 lbs of muscle and then we're talking.  

Agree

[robrob74]

I send him down just because of the contract situation. Cap management is just as important. I like him getting 20 minutes a night and bulking up another year. Like others say, he plays on the edge. I want him to fight his own battles and not need Brouwer to bail him out of pickles. 

 

Extra Development won't hurt him. 

[robrob74]

Plus I want to have a winning attitude. The more championships guys have, the more they hate losing. Is London good enough to win again?

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

He's done well but he is physically not ready.  He plays on the edge and already 10 games in, it seems it's taking a toll on him.  Compare him now to his first preseason game, he has slowed it down a bit.  

 

I would send him down and get him to add more bulk in his legs and come back next season with an added 10 lbs of muscle and then we're talking.  

 

He is taking the hardest minutes on the team ans performing as well as Frolik, maybe just not scoring as much.  He's being thrown to the wolves and performing as well as the best players.  He isn't going to add 10 pounds of muscle playing in junior.  Maybe 10 pounds extra from eating junk food.

 

I would play him in California.  Couldn't hurt our chances of ending the Disneyland curse.

[robrob74]

I could go either way with him. For me it's cap management. We aren't winning anything this year and he will be one year better next year as will our young players currently on the team. 

 

 

[AlbertaBoy12]

The negativity on these forums is hilarious.

[robrob74]

They're not scoring. If they can't get goals, then how can they win games? It doesn't matter how well you or your goalie plays, if you are not scoring there are no wins to be had. 

[conundrumed]

39 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

The negativity on these forums is hilarious.

I don't understand why posters are thinking it is overtly negative. I'm not attacking that view, I'm hearing it, I'm listening to it.

Maybe fans are just too greedy, but maybe it's a reflection of the team showing too much frustration that just seems be a thing right now. Too many eyes to the sky, not enough grin, bear it, and get it back. It just seems to snowball.

Why don't we call timeouts? Why not just randomly challenge goals then? If you aren't going to use the timeout anyways?

Sorry to go ot.

 

Tkachuk's only 18. Could be a player we have for another 14 yrs. I wish we could pull back and show more patience.

He'd be rocking 20mins/gm in London right now. At 18, he needs those mins. Here he's at what 12?

He needs more minutes if we keep him, so can we do that?

You can even look at Bennett, he completely lost his 1st post draft year, look at Galchenyuk, lost his draft year.

Conversely, look at Scheifele, developed post-draft in the O.

I want our guys hitting their stride at 21-ish.

I was really on the fence, but I've fallen off and landed in the send him down yard. And there's a big angry dog in a Knights jersey, and he's saying "you think your guy's coming for a holiday"?

That isn't me being negative on Tkachuk. He did not lead that London team last year. Marner did, Dvorak did, Tkachuk got the glory.

He needs a 2nd year in the O with tons of prime ice time. I can't pretend he has nothing to learn there in one of the top franchises in the entire CHL.

If he plays for Flint, I change my tune. And that's Mony. "Really, send him back to blahttawa"??

 

Chychrun update: logged 21+ minutes, 3rd for ARI dmen in their 3-2 win over SJ. Those who know, you know I'm going to terrorize this subject.

From the N. Dakota tourney, it was exhausting with "Fabbro and Quenneville were the best dmen".

Why didn't they give them Chychrun's assignments then? mmhmm

I'll let this go, but it looks like it might be awhile. lol

sorry for the wall 'o text...

 

[travel_dude]

^^^^^

 

I agree about the timeouts.  We never challenge anything and only use the time out when we are losing and Cameron needs to fashion together a EN strategy that falls through.  It's usually longer for a goal review, so if they get one on us that is changing the momentum, then call for a review.  

[MAC331]

9 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I don't understand why posters are thinking it is overtly negative. I'm not attacking that view, I'm hearing it, I'm listening to it.

Maybe fans are just too greedy, but maybe it's a reflection of the team showing too much frustration that just seems be a thing right now. Too many eyes to the sky, not enough grin, bear it, and get it back. It just seems to snowball.

Why don't we call timeouts? Why not just randomly challenge goals then? If you aren't going to use the timeout anyways?

Sorry to go ot.

 

Tkachuk's only 18. Could be a player we have for another 14 yrs. I wish we could pull back and show more patience.

He'd be rocking 20mins/gm in London right now. At 18, he needs those mins. Here he's at what 12?

He needs more minutes if we keep him, so can we do that?

You can even look at Bennett, he completely lost his 1st post draft year, look at Galchenyuk, lost his draft year.

Conversely, look at Scheifele, developed post-draft in the O.

I want our guys hitting their stride at 21-ish.

I was really on the fence, but I've fallen off and landed in the send him down yard. And there's a big angry dog in a Knights jersey, and he's saying "you think your guy's coming for a holiday"?

That isn't me being negative on Tkachuk. He did not lead that London team last year. Marner did, Dvorak did, Tkachuk got the glory.

He needs a 2nd year in the O with tons of prime ice time. I can't pretend he has nothing to learn there in one of the top franchises in the entire CHL.

If he plays for Flint, I change my tune. And that's Mony. "Really, send him back to blahttawa"??

 

Chychrun update: logged 21+ minutes, 3rd for ARI dmen in their 3-2 win over SJ. Those who know, you know I'm going to terrorize this subject.

From the N. Dakota tourney, it was exhausting with "Fabbro and Quenneville were the best dmen".

Why didn't they give them Chychrun's assignments then? mmhmm

I'll let this go, but it looks like it might be awhile. lol

sorry for the wall 'o text...

 

Before the draft I remember hearing Burke say the top 3 picks are NHL ready, past that everyone was 2 to 3 years away. This was their own scouting talking not just Burke. Tkachuk has come in and shown everyone the raw talent he has but you can see that talent needs some refining. Another year of developing in one of the best Junior organization will help him to return even better for us next year. Also the 2017/18 Flames will be a year more experienced and in a better position to support his addition.

[cross16]

10 hours ago, conundrumed said:

 

Chychrun update: logged 21+ minutes, 3rd for ARI dmen in their 3-2 win over SJ. Those who know, you know I'm going to terrorize this subject.

From the N. Dakota tourney, it was exhausting with "Fabbro and Quenneville were the best dmen".

Why didn't they give them Chychrun's assignments then? mmhmm

I'll let this go, but it looks like it might be awhile. lol

sorry for the wall 'o text...

 

 

I think all NHL scouting departments should look at Chychrun and see the dangers of over scouting. I somewhat, but not completely, understand the argument that he wasn't the best Dman in the draft but to let him slide out of the top 10 and treat him like he was some overrated prospect was just so silly. I'm glad to see he is proving teams wrong. I would have taken Tkahcuk 10/10 over him but i'm really happy to see Chychrun prove he is a very good prospect and likely going to be a good NHL dman. 

 

And the fact the Canucks took Joelivi over him is just icing on the cake 

[xstrike]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

Before the draft I remember hearing Burke say the top 3 picks are NHL ready, past that everyone was 2 to 3 years away. This was their own scouting talking not just Burke. Tkachuk has come in and shown everyone the raw talent he has but you can see that talent needs some refining. Another year of developing in one of the best Junior organization will help him to return even better for us next year. Also the 2017/18 Flames will be a year more experienced and in a better position to support his addition.

Who were the top 3 picks to the flames though? Was Pulj number 3; was Tkachuk?

[travel_dude]

17 minutes ago, xstrike said:

Who were the top 3 picks to the flames though? Was Pulj number 3; was Tkachuk?

 

Exactly.  Puljujarvi does not look NHL ready.  Most shifts you don't even notice him.  I haven't seen the speed of Laine or the grit of Matthews.

[Flyerfan52]

Some may remember that I wasn't real happy we drafted Tkachuk (I wanted Chychrun) but since we did I'll chime in.

If I thought it was worth it to burn a year of his ELC I'd keep him past 10 games & wait to see how he is by American Thanksgiving. Short of 40 but giving him lots of chances to stick. But that doesn't look likely.

Unlike Monahan sending him back to junior doesn't mean sending him down to a loser. Back in London he's on a winner & he'd be a lock for the USA team in the WJC so he'll get a year of winning rather than just putting in time while not really helping the Flames. Let him log big important minutes, grow in body so he's more ready against men & maturity so he learns to pick his spots. When he reports to camp next year he should be 1 year more mature in body & mindset while regaining more of a winner's strut than likely to gain by sticking around. Hopefully by playing that extra year against kids his own age he comes in as a top 6 next year.

[JTech780]

I wouldn't send him back, he looks fine to me. He is doing a lot of little things that are helping this team. Most of his mistakes are junior type mistakes that he probably won't get out of his system playing in junior.

 

My other concern is that last year he played on a dominating line, he won't have that same type of talent to play with this year in London. So if he goes back to junior and doesn't put up 100+ points is that considered him taking a step backwards?

 

He has 3 points in his last 4 games and has started to show more offensively in each game. I really don't see a need for him to go back to junior at this point.

[zima]

They should put him with the top line he could give them some much needed enthusiasm and grit. he can play either wing and is just what the doctor ordered for the slumping JH Mono line. Doesn't hurt to mix it up a bit like very one keeps saying he flourishes on a line with high quality skill. He has proven as far as im concerned that he is NHL ready and can play in most situations to this point and does it very well. Why not give him some more tests and see how he fairs with the first line can't hurt. I haven't seen any news to this point that he will be sent down but have not seen any where about line combo's yet? 

[travel_dude]

He will be playing in his 10th game.  That answers the first part.

He has to get a lot better on offense to be able to stay.  Playing the balance of 40 games makes sense now, so continue to challenge him in different ways.  Play on the PP.  Play on different lines.  Give him specific goals.  I believe he is staying with Monahan right now, so that is better than living with his parents.  He has to learn the pro life.  Monahan is at least a mature guy to be with.

[Carty]

      

[zima]

Well I have to Admit finally we can put that to rest and see how he fairs in the next 40 games. I have faith in the guy he is exactly what this team needs and as the season progress I hope can progress with it . What I like about him is he has put to rest most of the issues ppl have put on him he stays away from the drama as much as he can he has gotten smarter knowing when to push he is playing in all situations and has a at least a B-B+ grade in my mind for a rookie any way. I think what I like most is he is always smiling and loves the gritty part of the game never backs down and always striving to learn and implament what he is taught. Good going Chuky play hard and play smart  .

[travel_dude]

25 minutes ago, zima said:

Well I have to Admit finally we can put that to rest and see how he fairs in the next 40 games. I have faith in the guy he is exactly what this team needs and as the season progress I hope can progress with it . What I like about him is he has put to rest most of the issues ppl have put on him he stays away from the drama as much as he can he has gotten smarter knowing when to push he is playing in all situations and has a at least a B-B+ grade in my mind for a rookie any way. I think what I like most is he is always smiling and loves the gritty part of the game never backs down and always striving to learn and implament what he is taught. Good going Chuky play hard and play smart  .

 

You are missing something.  40 games total is the limit before the RFA year kicks in.  He has up to 30 after tonight to give the GM reason to keep him the rest of the year.