conundrumed Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 12 minutes ago, cross16 said: Not terrible, but not exactly the greatest decision. It burnt a year on his ELC so he is an RFA after this season. Had they sent him down after the 9 games he woudln't be RFA until the following season. However, they didn't burn a year as it relates to his UFA status. Last year was his first year accuring towards UFA status so he still has another 6 years to go (including this one) before he qualifies for UFA status. That's why they senr him down when they did. They had burnt the 9 games, but didn't accure a year to UFA status. So not terrible, but not ideal like I said. Thanks cross. I could have not been lazy but then it would have been convoluted and not as easy understand as you just made it. Cheers. Not that it's something I want us to do with Tkachuk, but nice to know the implications of that option. As you said and I agree, not a great option, but not an atrocity either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Two comments today from the Flames about Tkachuk. Brian Burke said that Tkachuk was making the decision very difficult. BT said that he is more concerned about the games relayed to burning a UFA year more than he is about the 9 game limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 It seems to me that what is important is whether he gets in proper playing time, whether he fits in with the club, if he can compete, and if he is mature enough (physically and psychologically) to handle the pressure. He seems to be doing well from what I can gather. I see no problems with keeping him up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zirakzigil Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Unless the Flames start playing well I dont think he stays up. The lines are a mess and the team is not playing well. Having him go back down and light up the CHL is not necessary a bad thing with the way the team is playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 On 2016-10-17 at 1:33 PM, conundrumed said: Can someone explain to me the Oilers keeping Draisatl up for 40 odd games before sending him back down? How does that work in terms of contract, and was that a terrible move? Draisatl was lost playing in the NHL his first year and it took the Coil 37 gms to figure it out. They finally decided to send him back to salvage and reinforce his confidence. With respect to the contract, it did in fact burn a year of RFA and UFA. 10 games played per year counts towards one year of professional experience. On 2016-10-17 at 1:56 PM, cross16 said: Not terrible, but not exactly the greatest decision. It burnt a year on his ELC so he is an RFA after this season. Had they sent him down after the 9 games he woudln't be RFA until the following season. However, they didn't burn a year as it relates to his UFA status. Last year was his first year accuring towards UFA status so he still has another 6 years to go (including this one) before he qualifies for UFA status. That's why they senr him down when they did. They had burnt the 9 games, but didn't accure a year to UFA status. So not terrible, but not ideal like I said. Cross16, you are correct about many things, but I believe you are incorrect with your above statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 46 minutes ago, Zirakzigil said: Unless the Flames start playing well I dont think he stays up. The lines are a mess and the team is not playing well. Having him go back down and light up the CHL is not necessary a bad thing with the way the team is playing. I don't think a year in Stockton would be terrible either. Given his demonstrated talent, I would be concerned that he might get a little bored by not being challenged. It could adversely impact his development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 10 hours ago, Cowtownguy said: I don't think a year in Stockton would be terrible either. Given his demonstrated talent, I would be concerned that he might get a little bored by not being challenged. It could adversely impact his development. You don't think he would be challenged in London ? you do know who the coach is there right ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 10 hours ago, CheersMan said: Draisatl was lost playing in the NHL his first year and it took the Coil 37 gms to figure it out. They finally decided to send him back to salvage and reinforce his confidence. With respect to the contract, it did in fact burn a year of RFA and UFA. 10 games played per year counts towards one year of professional experience. Cross16, you are correct about many things, but I believe you are incorrect with your above statement. The 40-game mark. This is when the clock starts ticking on a player's free agent status. Under the 2005 collective agreement, a player are eligible for unrestricted free agency after seven years in the NHL. But if he returns to junior hockey before playing 40 NHL games, the season does not count as an "accrued season," which means it doesn't count towards free agency eligibility. So an 18-year-old rookie who plays at least 40 NHL games can become an unrestricted free agent at the age of 25. An 18-year-old who is returned to junior hockey before game 40 will not be eligible for free agency until he's 26. (Assuming both go on to become NHL regulars every season after that.) Note also that a junior-aged player with an NHL contract cannot be sent to a minor pro league like the AHL unless he has already played four seasons of junior hockey. He must either stay on the NHL roster or return to junior Bob MacKenzie's take on the subject (from 2014): If a player plays in his 40th game of the season, it counts as an accrued year of service counting towards the seven years required to become an unrestricted free agent. Put more in terms us laymen can understand: if your favourite team's underage junior plays in 40 games this season, the clock starts ticking on his seven-year countdown to unrestricted free agency. So a team may very well be prepared to "burn" that first year by allowing its underage junior to play 10 games but, depending on how the player is faring at mid-season, won't permit the player to get into that 40th game, secure in the knowledge the young prospect is eight, not seven, years away from UFA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 11 hours ago, CheersMan said: Cross16, you are correct about many things, but I believe you are incorrect with your above statement. No, it is accurate. This gets tricky because of the definition of Free agency. NHL gratns UFA status at age 27 or 7 Accrued seasons. Below is the definition of what an accrued season is. Quote "Accrued Season" means any League Year during which a Player was on a Club's Active Roster for 40 (30 if the Player is a goalie) or more Regular Season Games, provided that, for the purposes of calculating an Accrued Season under this Agreement, games missed due to a hockey-related injury incurred while on a Club's Active Roster shall count as games played for purposes of calculating an Accrued Season but only during the League Year in which the injury was incurred and a maximum of one additional season. http://www.nhl.com/nhl/en/v3/ext/CBA2012/NHL_NHLPA_2013_CBA.pdf The 10 games mark refers to the "Slide Rule" of whether or not you can slide a contract to the following season. That rule is seperate and not linked to how the NHL defines Unrestricted Free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Thanks for the clarification gents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zima Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Yep better send him back to the J's after all he sucked last game a goal and 2 huge hits even though he is getting worse every game they keep him up I don't get it. The Kid sucks send him back can learn way more playing with kids why play against men how rude. I bet those fools in management keep him up maybe for 39 games and ruin his chance at top scorer in the J's I feel for him. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 7 hours ago, MAC331 said: You don't think he would be challenged in London ? you do know who the coach is there right ? Normally, I am in favour of a player getting more junior/AHL time. I would have likely put Bennett down for a year. By contrast, Monahan was old and mature enough to remain in the NHL. I am concerned that Tkachuk could grow bored of playing against inferior opponents. I do not think that any coach can successfully teach or motivate a player in those circumstances. You could get Zig Ziglar or Tony Robbins to make me feel good about repeating grade ten, but it is unlikely to actually work at this point in my life. If the NHL is too difficult for him, and he loses ice time etc., then send him to the AHL. He can work on his skill set while playing among equals with a chance to be called up. He strikes me as quite similar to his father. If so, then I suspect that he feeds off of his emotions big time, and playing in junior for another year might suck his soul dry. Don't know the kid, and I have never met him. This is just my speculation. ETA: Then I read TD's post saying that a junior-aged player with an NHL contract cannot be sent to the AHL unless he has four years at the junior level. Oh well. I still think he should stay in the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 18 hours ago, Cowtownguy said: I don't think a year in Stockton would be terrible either. Given his demonstrated talent, I would be concerned that he might get a little bored by not being challenged. It could adversely impact his development. He can't be sent to Stockton. It is back to Junior hockey or the Flames. You have to be 20 years or older to play in AHL unless you come from the US development league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 4 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said: He can't be sent to Stockton. It is back to Junior hockey or the Flames. You have to be 20 years or older to play in AHL unless you come from the US development league. Yeah, I realized that too late. So, I will say, at this point, he should remain in the NHL barring any serious unforeseen problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBTC-FLAMES-EDITION Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Realistically I see a 4 year window with the players we have right now, including Frolik, Brouwer and Brodie's contracts and Giordano's age. I doubt another year in junior helps Tkachuk get better toward us being contenders over the next 3 years so I feel he should stay. I feel/hope we will be nowhere near top 10 picks the next few years either so play the high picks now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 I see a lot of people are thinking that he should go back to Jr as he would more there. Well consider this option he won't find in Junior hockey. A good NHL mentor.... An NHL vet to take him under his wing and teach him the NHL game and how to be a pro... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Tkachuk looked pretty good last game... He's been building a pretty good case to stay so far... He also brings an element of tenacity that could hopefully be contagious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 If the Flames were truly open to keeping him with the club this year (dependent upon his performance in the 9 games), I fail to think of what he could have done to impress them more. It would be hypocritical to say that his play would dictate his NHL status, and then send him back down after playing well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 5 minutes ago, Carty said: Tkachuk looked pretty good last game... He's been building a pretty good case to stay so far... He also brings an element of tenacity that could hopefully be contagious... HE was like a smaller version of Ferland out there. PLay 10 minutes, hit everything you can to change momentum, score an important goal. He has more goals than most of the team. I don't think the Flames are worried about the 9 game limit. I think they want to see what he can do. He has looked like a NHL player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zima Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 Wow Finally Yes I bet he stays he does it all he hits he scores and he is an agitator another lucic only younger and I think smarter. I could be pushing it and yes I am totally an armchair Manager but Im usually but with him I think I'm right About him I was right about JH and Mono I just feel they have what it takes from the start of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zima Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 It should have said I'm usually Wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 Tkachuk has a great situation waiting for him in junior. He has been good and I the future looks bright. But he isn't getting the ice time or having the impact to justify keeping him up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFan99 Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 He has the size and strength to be a pro now. He dominated junior last year so I can't see a benefit in him playing in Ohl again? NHL is a massive learning, curve but I think he will be alright. He has a pro shot and, hands but just needs the experience to help him along. He defitnely isn't afraid to throw his body around at the pro level. NHL and CHL need an agreement to let under 20 players play in AHL if it benefits a player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 6 minutes ago, TheFan99 said: He has the size and strength to be a pro now. He dominated junior last year so I can't see a benefit in him playing in Ohl again? NHL is a massive learning, curve but I think he will be alright. He has a pro shot and, hands but just needs the experience to help him along. He defitnely isn't afraid to throw his body around at the pro level. Well he was part of the one of, possibly thee best, line the OHL has ever seen so I think its fair to question how much HE dominated. That's why i see value in sending him back. Being the best player on your team, even in junior, holds value to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFan99 Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 4 minutes ago, cross16 said: Well he was part of the one of, possibly thee best, line the OHL has ever seen so I think its fair to question how much HE dominated. That's why i see value in sending him back. Being the best player on your team, even in junior, holds value to me. I do agree with you but would Marner and Dvorak of been that good without his work down low? Hard to say? I think let Ferland and Bouma hold the fort and send him back for time being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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