Troy Brouwer

[travel_dude]

This is one of those moves I didn't support on June 30. Overpaying for depth gets teams into trouble. I am also not a huge fan of the player. His possession numbers are not strong his offensive ability is limited, he lacks speed, and I think he gets too many points for size and the dreaded "intangibles".

I still don't love it on July 1. But I have warmed up to it for a number of reasons.

1) Compared to the other free agency contracts Brouwer's isn't bad.

2) What else were they going to do? We don't have anyone in the system, I don't see better options in free agency, and finding a better solution in trade would have meant targeting a bad contract or paying a high price.

3) He has been buried defensively in Washington and St Louis. Thst tells me coaches trust him. It also excuses some of the possession numbers. Plus, he may see a bump in his numbers playing in Calgary.

4) He is something we really needed. RH RW. Size. Leadership. He makes us a fair bit better immediately.

5) All of our other bad contracts will be gone before he falls off. As long as Treliving doesn't get into the habit of bringing on more questionable contracts then this one won't hurt us.

 

I approve of this post...

 

No way to know if he plays as a 1st or 2nd scoring line RW, but either way it's an improvement over last season's options.  Which ever line he plays on, we still have to fill the other.  Chiasson may be able to fill it.  A lefty prospect may be able to,  The farm has been cleared out a bit, so the guys remaining should be able to stand out more.

 

The cap issue will be a temporary issue.  Expect some wheeling and dealing before the season starts.  Teams can only sign so many FA's without making hockey trades to improve, especially in this year's crop.  I think there will be some interest in Wideman, Bouma, and Stajan, possibly even Engelland.  Wotherspoon was qualified for a reason.  Nakladal is still being worked on.  Jooris is still being looked at.  Not that any of them are that great, but they present opportunity to replace NHL players, or be spares on the roster.

[TrippinVdUb]

I look at this deal in the same light as England,sure the contract looks bad, it's definitely a year and a mill to much but I'll be damned if we didn't get better value out of Derrick's contract then we had expected. When things got rough, players went down, he stepped up and helped keep the kids heads above water and not going full blown like the dudes up north.

He may not lead the scoring or analytic numbers on most nights, but you can bet he will bring steady hand when this team finds itself in tense moments. Having that type of depth and leadership isn't always measured by a stat and I still believe that words like "chemistry" and "Style" have a place in the game.

When you watch a Johnny dangle or an old school Scott Stevens type hit, stats go out the window.

[nevermissashift]

I look at this deal in the same light as England,sure the contract looks bad, it's definitely a year and a mill to much but I'll be damned if we didn't get better value out of Derrick's contract then we had expected. When things got rough, players went down, he stepped up and helped keep the kids heads above water and not going full blown like the dudes up north.

He may not lead the scoring or analytic numbers on most nights, but you can bet he will bring steady hand when this team finds itself in tense moments. Having that type of depth and leadership isn't always measured by a stat and I still believe that words like "chemistry" and "Style" have a place in the game.

When you watch a Johnny dangle or an old school Scott Stevens type hit, stats go out the window.

That is more how my head works. Good for you for voicing that. Analytics and stats, are as useful as a program that tells you when to scratch your behind.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Champions are there to be dethroned.

Let's play hockey.

[AlbertaBoy12]

Brouwer might just end up claimed in the expansion draft next offseason, with the way the rules are and I doubt the flames will protect him.

[TrippinVdUb]

Well I hope that's not the case, have a look at next year's potential crop of potential UFA's, you will be hard pressed to find a right winger I'm the top 25 of that bunch

[DirtyDeeds]

This is one of those moves I didn't support on June 30. Overpaying for depth gets teams into trouble. I am also not a huge fan of the player. His possession numbers are not strong his offensive ability is limited, he lacks speed, and I think he gets too many points for size and the dreaded "intangibles".

I still don't love it on July 1. But I have warmed up to it for a number of reasons.

1) Compared to the other free agency contracts Brouwer's isn't bad.

2) What else were they going to do? We don't have anyone in the system, I don't see better options in free agency, and finding a better solution in trade would have meant targeting a bad contract or paying a high price.

3) He has been buried defensively in Washington and St Louis. Thst tells me coaches trust him. It also excuses some of the possession numbers. Plus, he may see a bump in his numbers playing in Calgary.

4) He is something we really needed. RH RW. Size. Leadership. He makes us a fair bit better immediately.

5) All of our other bad contracts will be gone before he falls off. As long as Treliving doesn't get into the habit of bringing on more questionable contracts then this one won't hurt us.

When you belive the possession numbers are the do all be all then it is little wonder you don't like this signing. it is very short sighted to look at it only this way.

 

He brings much more than poor possession numbers. He brings leadership.

He brings grit.

He had great playoffs so is capable of playing when it counts.

 

These intangibles are just as important as your possession stats you cling to.

 

If he brings these qualities to our 1st line or to Bennetts line then he will be worth every penny..

[conundrumed]

For a July 1 signing, it isn't huge overpayment. I believe it's the type of player we need a couple of. One Stajan is Fiddler and Chimera in our bottom 6, that annoys me a whole lot more.

As has been brought up before, our bottom 6 is sketchy at best. Brouwer, Fiddler, Chimera, Hutton were my list, but that's minus Stajan and Smid.

Brouwer isn't a bargain contract, but he's the type of player that will play a solid role for the duration.

It's only .5 mil high imho, we've wasted a whole lot of cap on a lot worse.

Colborne at 2mil less? No thanks. The epitome of everything that was wrong with us imo.

[Going4TheCup]

For a July 1 signing, it isn't huge overpayment. I believe it's the type of player we need a couple of. One Stajan is Fiddler and Chimera in our bottom 6, that annoys me a whole lot more.

As has been brought up before, our bottom 6 is sketchy at best. Brouwer, Fiddler, Chimera, Hutton were my list, but that's minus Stajan and Smid.

Brouwer isn't a bargain contract, but he's the type of player that will play a solid role for the duration.

It's only .5 mil high imho, we've wasted a whole lot of cap on a lot worse.

Colborne at 2mil less? No thanks. The epitome of everything that was wrong with us imo.

I didn't really like Colborne, he seemed to play a lazy game. I was happy that he didn't re-sign with the Flames. As for Brouwer I agree he will play a solid role even though we kind of overpaid for him. As for Stajan and Smid, i wish we could just buy-out their contracts.

[nevermissashift]

Brouwer might just end up claimed in the expansion draft next offseason, with the way the rules are and I doubt the flames will protect him.

Wouldn't that get a dog in the manger howling? When they claim him, they can take his contract with him; end of that discussion.

When you belive the possession numbers are the do all be all then it is little wonder you don't like this signing. it is very short sighted to look at it only this way.

 

He brings much more than poor possession numbers. He brings leadership.

He brings grit.

He had great playoffs so is capable of playing when it counts.

 

These intangibles are just as important as your possession stats you cling to.

 

If he brings these qualities to our 1st line or to Bennetts line then he will be worth every penny..

tinkering likes this

[cross16]

Brouwer might just end up claimed in the expansion draft next offseason, with the way the rules are and I doubt the flames will protect him.

They'll protect him. I highly doubt the gave him a 4 year deal and then plan on not protecting him and they've got the room too.

[phoenix66]

When you belive the possession numbers are the do all be all then it is little wonder you don't like this signing. it is very short sighted to look at it only this way.

 

He brings much more than poor possession numbers. He brings leadership.

He brings grit.

He had great playoffs so is capable of playing when it counts.

 

These intangibles are just as important as your possession stats you cling to.

 

If he brings these qualities to our 1st line or to Bennetts line then he will be worth every penny..

Agreed, I took the time to watch the interviews and look at some of his history.

This guy brings more than just 20 goals and 40 points..hes here to win. He strikes me as the type that will grab an underachiever by the scruff of the neck and tell him to pull up his game, another leader and hell do it by example.

2 players were very visible as big reasons St Louis went deep and now we have them both.

Youll see Ferland elevate his game trying to be like him, hell create space for Johnny and Monahan to do their thing.

I believe we all get too caught up in salary of individual players when really who cares, we dont pay it. So long as it doesnt cost us core plsyers then pay the guy 10 mill for all we care. I have faith BT knows what numbers to play with so no fear there. I like that BT yas issued a statement essentially that the rebuild is over, you need to make the team now..no free rides, no excuses..anything short of playoffs is failure.no more "overachieving"

This is going to be one hard team to play against this season, and Brouwer will be a big part of that.

[kehatch]

When you belive the possession numbers are the do all be all then it is little wonder you don't like this signing. it is very short sighted to look at it only this way.

He brings much more than poor possession numbers. He brings leadership.

He brings grit.

He had great playoffs so is capable of playing when it counts.

These intangibles are just as important as your possession stats you cling to.

If he brings these qualities to our 1st line or to Bennetts line then he will be worth every penny..

In a 300 word post about 6 of them was speaking about low possession numbers. The bulk of the post was listing 5 positives of the signing, many of them the same ones your listing.

Not sure how I was clinging to possession stats.

[MAC331]

In a 300 word post about 6 of them was speaking about low possession numbers. The bulk of the post was listing 5 positives of the signing, many of them the same ones your listing.

Not sure how I was clinging to possession stats.

LOL exactly. The entire team needs to improve their possession stats and hopefully under GG we see improvement. Yesterday was a positive one for the Flames picking up Brouwer and Johnson.

[jjgallow]

Troy is easily the best RWer we have had in years. Sure Hudlers point were higher but he had a few great years with great line mates. Brouwer bring a physical game to the top 6 that teams are forced to pay for.

 

 

There is no comparing Brower and Hudler.  I would debate whether Hudler is a RW, to be honest....or just a highly skilled player that can morph into many different roles as needed.

 

Brower could be 8 feet tall, and they still wouldn't compare.

 

No amount of size advantage or physicality will make up for what Hudler brought to the rink.   I would hope that this is actually something we Don't need to debate.  

 

 

That said, Brower IS going to add to this team in a big way this year.

 

The question is....will he for four years?   I don't personally see it (with that salary).

[zima]

So we give up on a speedy Colburn for an aging slow Brouwer, Colburn 2.5 per and Brouwer over 4 mil per how crazy is that. I think Colburn is just starting to come into his own I think he will end up biting us in the behind if we meet in the playoffs. Now instead of getting younger we just got a little older in some ways might as well of kept David Jones. Before the season is over everyone here will be wanting his contract gone so I'm on as saying bad choice BT failed miserably this yr in the FA game.

[phoenix66]

So we give up on a speedy Colburn for an aging slow Brouwer, Colburn 2.5 per and Brouwer over 4 mil per how crazy is that. I think Colburn is just starting to come into his own I think he will end up biting us in the behind if we meet in the playoffs. Now instead of getting younger we just got a little older in some ways might as well of kept David Jones. Before the season is over everyone here will be wanting his contract gone so I'm on as saying bad choice BT failed miserably this yr in the FA game.

 

 

Thats a little harsh and short sighted.  I get it, you liked Joe.. i liked him too, great guy, but if it was all about the individual  we'd never make the playoffs.

That "slow and old" player you mention was having a Conn Smythe worthy playoff run. Joe is what he is, a tall, soft, depth forward who can put up a few points. Not too shabby, a definitely NHL quality forward who can earn his keep.

Does he make his linemates better ?  No was he the guy you want out there in tough situations with games on the line ?  No 

did he bring it , each and every time he was on the ice?  No.. he was essentially a taller , slightly more productive version of Mason Raymond.

If this were a trade, instead of free agency , no way we get Troy Brouwer in a 1-1 trade with Joe.. we'd be raving about what a steal we just got ..but that's basically what we did .

 

its not even like Troy is cashing in on one great season ,, hes been the same player year in year out. like i said earlier, is it too  much $ and term ?. sure, but welcome to July 1

 

we dont even know that 2.5 was getting it done here.. Joe himself said he left money on the table , BT alluded to that not being the number they were discussing..but at 2.5 i think Joe is earning his potential talent / play ceiling . Thats just who he is  

[zima]

Perhaps I am short sighted but I still think by end of Feb this forum will be asking to trade Brouwer because he is to slow and not playing the type of game they thought he would. I hope I'm wrong but it just seem that way every yr we were happy with DJ then it was move him  happy with Huds then it was move him it will be the same with Brouwer. I think Colburn was just starting play the type of production game we wanted him to play and wouldn't give him a small 2 yr contract to prove himself. But saying that maybe BT and BB have a another player in mind perhaps G Hathaway I like his play and I do believe he could take Colburns place and be meaner.

[kehatch]

So we give up on a speedy Colburn for an aging slow Brouwer, Colburn 2.5 per and Brouwer over 4 mil per how crazy is that. I think Colburn is just starting to come into his own I think he will end up biting us in the behind if we meet in the playoffs. Now instead of getting younger we just got a little older in some ways might as well of kept David Jones. Before the season is over everyone here will be wanting his contract gone so I'm on as saying bad choice BT failed miserably this yr in the FA game.

 

I don't agree with your assessment on Colborne, but even if I did the Flames not signing him has very little to do with the decision to sign Brouwer.  They don't even play the same position and they certainly don't fill the same role.  

 

As for Brouwer, he was a highly sought after player even before he went to free agency.  The Blues traded TJ Oshie to acquire him one year ago.  He was good in St Louis last season and arguably their best forward in the playoffs.  He isn't speedy, but he isn't slow.  He has a great combination of offense, defense, and physical play. 

[zima]

Like I said perhaps I'm short sighted and Col does not play any where or anything like Brouwer. I am for sure not knowledgeable when it comes to players like most of you are. I did like what Col brought to the table at season end and I know it was a doesn't matter any more end of season but he was scary good towards the end and if he brings it like that this season we will be saying lets trade for him I have seen it before. I just thought 2.5 is nothing any more for a show me contract 2 yrs oh well time to move on. Hope they bring up shankurak or G Hathaway was going to say GH but that is already taken. Of course you never know even Jank or polack can come in some where the sky is the limit right now.

[kehatch]

Like I said perhaps I'm short sighted and Col does not play any where or anything like Brouwer. I am for sure not knowledgeable when it comes to players like most of you are. I did like what Col brought to the table at season end and I know it was a doesn't matter any more end of season but he was scary good towards the end and if he brings it like that this season we will be saying lets trade for him I have seen it before. I just thought 2.5 is nothing any more for a show me contract 2 yrs oh well time to move on. Hope they bring up shankurak or G Hathaway was going to say GH but that is already taken. Of course you never know even Jank or polack can come in some where the sky is the limit right now.

 

If you believe the last 25 games were a reflection of Colborne's future production then the Flames dropped the ball big time.  Absolutely.  But I don't think the Flames (or most of the fans here) believe that.  I showed the breakdown in another thread, but his average production combined with average games played point to him as being a 30-point forward.  

 

There were 200 forwards last season that put up 30-points.  If you are a 30-point forward you better bring more to the table then production or (and preferably and) you better do it at a bargain cap hit.  Treliving is (correctly IMO) rebuilding the bottom half of the roster.  Giving Colborne a big raise didn't fit with that.  

[The_People1]

For a July 1 signing, it isn't huge overpayment. I believe it's the type of player we need a couple of. One Stajan is Fiddler and Chimera in our bottom 6, that annoys me a whole lot more.

As has been brought up before, our bottom 6 is sketchy at best. Brouwer, Fiddler, Chimera, Hutton were my list, but that's minus Stajan and Smid.

Brouwer isn't a bargain contract, but he's the type of player that will play a solid role for the duration.

It's only .5 mil high imho, we've wasted a whole lot of cap on a lot worse.

Colborne at 2mil less? No thanks. The epitome of everything that was wrong with us imo.

 

Paying bottom 6 over $2.5-mil-per is in itself, a bad idea in a salary cap era (except a good 3rd line Center should make as much as $4-mil-per).

 

Sure, I really like the sound of a third line made up of Frolik - Backlund - Brouwer but man, that's not leaving a lot of money elsewhere.

[zima]

Well now that he is gone to our nemesis in the other Rockies I hope your right which you probably are I am 1 of those ppl that still think we should try and get Iggy back. Perhaps even Huds,at the same time I think we should be given the kids a good look see I guess you can't do both not enough contracts or cash flow. Like I said time to move on and watch our future do there stuff. Hoping Mang or maybe even Poirier become a main stay in the NHL Just naming a few just hoping we have a diamond in the ruff like JH would be cool.    

[travel_dude]

Well now that he is gone to our nemesis in the other Rockies I hope your right which you probably are I am 1 of those ppl that still think we should try and get Iggy back. Perhaps even Huds,at the same time I think we should be given the kids a good look see I guess you can't do both not enough contracts or cash flow. Like I said time to move on and watch our future do there stuff. Hoping Mang or maybe even Poirier become a main stay in the NHL Just naming a few just hoping we have a diamond in the ruff like JH would be cool.    

 

I don't think Colorado will ever be serious competition for the Flames.  They go younger, then go older, then go younger, then go older.  They had one season in the playoffs and regressed to where they belonged; in the basement.  They have good players, but have not been able to figure out their identity.

[Flyerfan52]

Like I said perhaps I'm short sighted and Col does not play any where or anything like Brouwer. I am for sure not knowledgeable when it comes to players like most of you are. I did like what Col brought to the table at season end and I know it was a doesn't matter any more end of season but he was scary good towards the end and if he brings it like that this season we will be saying lets trade for him I have seen it before. I just thought 2.5 is nothing any more for a show me contract 2 yrs oh well time to move on. Hope they bring up shankurak or G Hathaway was going to say GH but that is already taken. Of course you never know even Jank or polack can come in some where the sky is the limit right now.

A "show me" contract is normally less than 2.5 x 2. Mostly they are 1 step above a training camp invite.

 

Colorado obviously wanted him although I'm glad the Flames let him walk. He's another of a very long list of players that didn't reach anything resembling their potential. I think Boston, TML & Flames all had thoughts of a power forward dancing in their heads @ 1st but found out he's never going to be that. Now it's Colorado's turn to realize that.

 

Playing well @ the end of the season matters little. It just means you play better with no pressure after the playoffs are just a dream. Did you notice that the Oilers seem to play better after being numerically eliminated?

[nevermissashift]

Well now that he is gone to our nemesis in the other Rockies I hope your right which you probably are I am 1 of those ppl that still think we should try and get Iggy back. Perhaps even Huds,at the same time I think we should be given the kids a good look see I guess you can't do both not enough contracts or cash flow. Like I said time to move on and watch our future do there stuff. Hoping Mang or maybe even Poirier become a main stay in the NHL Just naming a few just hoping we have a diamond in the ruff like JH would be cool.    

Don't put yourself down too far. You made a lot of good points. Comparing JCol and TBro across the board is a difficult thing to attempt. JCol could very well have the season/s of his career now. He is tall and lanky and everybody develops at different speeds. It will be interesting to see. I like him too. He was throwing his weight around in the playoffs two years ago, and the refs thought they should stop him; that cheesed me off. Let's follow Joe next season to see how he does.

 

All players drop back at a certain point but BT seems to think TBro has good years ahead of him. I hope that is the case. It would be great to see him become even better than he was last season. It's a renewed team with new forwards, defense, goaltending, and coaches. Many people wanted a rebuild, well here we go!!

I don't think Colorado will ever be serious competition for the Flames.

Now that is sticking your neck out a ways