2016 Free Agency

[420since1974]

Absolute NO to Schultz.

 

With Agostino, Arnold, Elson, Grant, Shore, & Van Brabant not qualified, Stockton's roster could likely be:

 

Raymond (RW) - Jankowski - Hathaway

 Poirier (RW) - Hamilton (RW) -  Smith

 Mangiapane -  Pribyl (RW) - Carroll

Klimchuk - Pollock (LW) - ?

 

At least one player short, maybe sign Elson to an AHL contract and move Poirier to RW?

Does Shinkaruk stick with the Flames or play LW/C in Stockton?

[kehatch]

If you could get Schultz on a low cost one year deal then sure. But I don't want to invest term and cap in a player thst has to be sheltered to be successful. Not when we have so many D in the system.

[robrob1974]

I think we have enough D for now. Nakladal might not be as good as Schultz at offense, but he is way better at D. I prefer Nakladal's overall game. Pass on Schultz.

[CheersMan]

Im talking about committing to those 3 players. With QO and the threat of arbitration with Joe, he was likely looking around 2.5 for Joe, 1.5 for Jooris and around 1M for Ortio give or take a point here or there, with about 5 M or so left to possibly plug some holes.

Now he has 10m to shop the entire market. Im guessing he can replace all 3, or even resign all 3 for 3 M or less.

So now he has 7 Million

We just became players for the likes of a Ladd, a Lucic, etc...not saying thats his targets, or even if they should be..but bottom line is he now has the freedom to do so

All without moving a contract, which im prett sure is still coming

 

I think it's presently closer to $5M, assuming JH and SM sign long term deals.  With that, we still need to find a back-up GT, plus possibly bring back Colborne and/or Jooris (or similar) to cap friendly deals.  That doesn’t leave a whole bunch for a big FA signing.  But your right in the sense that BT is giving himself much better options.  I think a player like Hathaway has a good chance at making the team next season as well, he has to bump someone.

[travel_dude]

Absolute NO to Schultz.

 

With Agostino, Arnold, Elson, Grant, Shore, & Van Brabant not qualified, Stockton's roster could likely be:

 

Raymond (RW) - Jankowski - Hathaway

 Poirier (RW) - Hamilton (RW) -  Smith

 Mangiapane -  Pribyl (RW) - Carroll

Klimchuk - Pollock (LW) - ?

 

At least one player short, maybe sign Elson to an AHL contract and move Poirier to RW?

Does Shinkaruk stick with the Flames or play LW/C in Stockton?

 

Uggg, Raymond still there....

 

Try this instead and gargle....

 

Mangiapane - Janko - Poirier

?? - Pullock - Pribyl

Klimchuk - Hamilton - Hathaway

Carroll - ?? - Smith

 

If Tuulola shows up in the AHL, then you put him Hamilton and Klimchuk.  Just some ideas.  If we have Raymond, then he plays with Pullock.  

[cross16]

So what do you pay a 5/6 D who you can only play in the right situation with limited minutes?

In that situation he's getting found money as he has no pressure to do anything 95+% of the game until the ideal situation for his limited talents arise.

 

Remember there is a league minimum for what we can pay him.

Pretty much all dman who play on your 5/6 get sheltered minutes. I don't see coaches throwing Derek Engelland out against Crosby. Be definition a 5/6 dman is sheltered. I'm sorry I mispoke earlier. I just mean by sheltered that he is a 5/6 not the top 3 dman who plays all situations like the oilers tried to get him to do.

As I said I'd only want Schultz cheap like 1-1.5. I get people don't like ex oilers but pretty easy to forget this guy put up 8 points in 18 games for the Penguins and has put up over 30 points a season. Puck moving RH dman like him aren't exactly easy to find and if the flames move Wideman they'll have a need there. Schultz can fill a need an do it for cheap.

[MAC331]

Im talking about committing to those 3 players. With QO and the threat of arbitration with Joe, he was likely looking around 2.5 for Joe, 1.5 for Jooris and around 1M for Ortio give or take a point here or there, with about 5 M or so left to possibly plug some holes.

Now he has 10m to shop the entire market. Im guessing he can replace all 3, or even resign all 3 for 3 M or less.

So now he has 7 Million

We just became players for the likes of a Ladd, a Lucic, etc...not saying thats his targets, or even if they should be..but bottom line is he now has the freedom to do so

All without moving a contract, which im prett sure is still coming

These were smart moves which takes these players out of the arbitration process and makes their agents come back to BT if they want jobs with the Flames. Let's not forget BT hasn't moved any of the players most of us feel are redundant going forward which could be an indication he has no takers. Lots will happen yet with the roster shaping.

[travel_dude]

These were smart moves which takes these players out of the arbitration process and makes their agents come back to BT if they want jobs with the Flames. Let's not forget BT hasn't moved any of the players most of us feel are redundant going forward which could be an indication he has no takers. Lots will happen yet with the roster shaping.

 

I think it's a little premature to say he has no takers.  The trade market really  just opened a few weeks ago.  Very little happened before expansion and between that and the draft.  Only one or two players have even been bought out.  The Wideman type markets are going to be just before FA or after teams fail to get their guys.

 

I think the initial discussions were held already.

[kehatch]

Pretty much all dman who play on your 5/6 get sheltered minutes. I don't see coaches throwing Derek Engelland out against Crosby. Be definition a 5/6 dman is sheltered. I'm sorry I mispoke earlier. I just mean by sheltered that he is a 5/6 not the top 3 dman who plays all situations like the oilers tried to get him to do.

As I said I'd only want Schultz cheap like 1-1.5. I get people don't like ex oilers but pretty easy to forget this guy put up 8 points in 18 games for the Penguins and has put up over 30 points a season. Puck moving RH dman like him aren't exactly easy to find and if the flames move Wideman they'll have a need there. Schultz can fill a need an do it for cheap.

I don't agree that all thirf pairing guys are sheltered. Sure Engelland doesn't play against Crosby, but he does take a lot of defensive zone starts and covers a lot of PK time. He also steps into a top 4 role when you have injury giving you depth.

Schultz needs to be sheltered like we used to shelter Babchuck. That means offensive starts, light competition, and PP time. Thst means your top 4 is buried, loses out on PP time, and no longer has as many offensive zone starts to take advantage of. He also isn't a guy you want stepping into the top 4 when someone gets hurt.

If the Flames were top heavy with defensive only D then I could see the point. But I would rather give Giordano, Brodie, Hamilton, etc the offensive zone starts and PP time. We don't need to waste that on a one dimensional guy like Schultz.

Plus, I don't want to waste minutes on him period. We have enough kids close to ready there is no reason to clog up the bottom pair. Better to sign guys like Nakladal and Jokipakka that are arguably better theb Schultz anyway but who can be had for budget contracts with short term.

[MAC331]

I think it's a little premature to say he has no takers.  The trade market really  just opened a few weeks ago.  Very little happened before expansion and between that and the draft.  Only one or two players have even been bought out.  The Wideman type markets are going to be just before FA or after teams fail to get their guys.

 

I think the initial discussions were held already.

Let me rephrase that, in the event he has no takers he has now created some room for other options.

[cccsberg]

Pretty much all dman who play on your 5/6 get sheltered minutes. I don't see coaches throwing Derek Engelland out against Crosby. Be definition a 5/6 dman is sheltered. I'm sorry I mispoke earlier. I just mean by sheltered that he is a 5/6 not the top 3 dman who plays all situations like the oilers tried to get him to do.

As I said I'd only want Schultz cheap like 1-1.5. I get people don't like ex oilers but pretty easy to forget this guy put up 8 points in 18 games for the Penguins and has put up over 30 points a season. Puck moving RH dman like him aren't exactly easy to find and if the flames move Wideman they'll have a need there. Schultz can fill a need an do it for cheap.

Its hard to believe you have such a short memory of his many failings as an Oiler.  Although I agree puck moving RH men are a scarce commodity, I have to wonder why the Oilers were so quick to dump him for peanuts after his 4 years of great service for them when that is EXACTLY what they are desperately seeking themselves?  And a few points on a stacked Penguins team/PP?  You could float a blow-up Michelin man out there on their PP and it would get some points before it touched the ice.... No, no, and again no, and like others have also stated, Nakladal is WAY better than him on defence and will also score points for the Flames.

[The_People1]

I think Brodie is going to be paired with Giordano on the top pair.  It's worked so well in the past, i don't see Gulutzan messing with it.  Only problem is Wideman has to play the off hand on the left side and he's horrible there. After that, we've got Engellend RHS RD on the bottom pair and RHS RD Nakladal as the 7th D.

 

You talk about a team that does NOT have a shortage of RHS RD, that's the Flames.  To bring up Justin Schultz in this conversation makes no sense.  We actually need to trade Wideman away and bring in a LHS LD for insurance behind Jokkipakka on the left side.

[kehatch]

I think Brodie is going to be paired with Giordano on the top pair. It's worked so well in the past, i don't see Gulutzan messing with it. Only problem is Wideman has to play the off hand on the left side and he's horrible there. After that, we've got Engellend RHS RD on the bottom pair and RHS RD Nakladal as the 7th D.

You talk about a team that does NOT have a shortage of RHS RD, that's the Flames. To bring up Justin Schultz in this conversation makes no sense. We actually need to trade Wideman away and bring in a LHS LD for insurance behind Jokkipakka on the left side.

I agree. I have very little interest in splitting up Brodie and Giordano. I also have very little interest in playing Engelland or Wideman in the top four (plus Hamilton is a RH shot).

That leaves you with Engelland and Wideman playing together or one of them on the bench.

The other issue is I want to keep Nakladal.

Ideally Wideman is gone. But barring thst moving Engelland is another option. With 1 year left I think you can move him. Giordano-Brodie, Jokipakka-Hamilton, Nakladal-Wideman isn't terrible.

[travel_dude]

I think Brodie is going to be paired with Giordano on the top pair.  It's worked so well in the past, i don't see Gulutzan messing with it.  Only problem is Wideman has to play the off hand on the left side and he's horrible there. After that, we've got Engellend RHS RD on the bottom pair and RHS RD Nakladal as the 7th D.

 

You talk about a team that does NOT have a shortage of RHS RD, that's the Flames.  To bring up Justin Schultz in this conversation makes no sense.  We actually need to trade Wideman away and bring in a LHS LD for insurance behind Jokkipakka on the left side.

 

Nakladal is probably as close to signing as Spoon is.  So, we have 7D without keeping Wideman and Smid, or signing Jultz. 4LD and 3RD.  Plenty of RD and LD on the farm too.  At forward, we have a few holes.  Lost Hudler and Jones.  Brought in Chiasson.  Signed Pribyl.  

• Shinkaruk could be ready for the NHL on LW.
• Tkachuk could get 9 games this season on LW.
• Poirier is an option for RW.
• Pribyl may be ready to see some NHL this year on RW.

It's a bit of a transition year.  Some very promising prospects are playing in Stockton.  Have some vets that really haven't done much. FA could see us go after a winger, but I don't really see it being a high-end one.  We don't really have to find that illusive top line RW this summer.  Choices are limited as it is.  Could use internal players to fill the void.  Or you sign a Stempniak type.

 

I know that Backlund-Frolik is like peas and carrots, but Frolik s also more than a defensive specialist.  He could fit on the top line and you replace him with Poirier on Backlund's line.  Poirier's 200 foot game improved this year, so pairing him with Backlund could be the right move.  Besides, most players play well with Backlund.  Chiasson goes to Bennett's RW.  

 

With Stempniak:

 

   Johnny-Monahan-Frolik

   Shinkaruk-Bennett-Chiasson

   Ferland-Backlund-Stempniak 

   Colborne-Stajan-Jooris

 

Without Stempniak:

 

   Johnny-Monahan-Frolik

   Shinkaruk-Bennett-Chiasson

   Ferland-Backlund-Poirier 

   Colborne-Stajan-Jooris

[MAC331]

I think Brodie is going to be paired with Giordano on the top pair.  It's worked so well in the past, i don't see Gulutzan messing with it.  Only problem is Wideman has to play the off hand on the left side and he's horrible there. After that, we've got Engellend RHS RD on the bottom pair and RHS RD Nakladal as the 7th D.

 

You talk about a team that does NOT have a shortage of RHS RD, that's the Flames.  To bring up Justin Schultz in this conversation makes no sense.  We actually need to trade Wideman away and bring in a LHS LD for insurance behind Jokkipakka on the left side.

Funny, I was thinking GG may be the one coach that sees value in splitting them up now. Defensively I would like to see Brodie with Hamilton because he can cover up for some of Hamilton's slow of foot moves up ice. For the life of me I don't want Wideman to remain but if he does I feel we need the stability of Giordano to go with him. If they move him I wouldn't mind seeing Anderson getting an opportunity to play with Giordano.

[cross16]

I know this won't be popular, but If I were Gulutzan I would try splitting up Gio-Brodie. I think the upside to the overal team play of basically always being able to have a top dman on the ice outweights the benefit of 1 power pairing. I know they tried it, but I really think the failure of Gio-Hamilton had more to do with cirumstance than anything else. Gio was coming off an injury Hamilton in a brand new system. I think those 2 factors had more to do with the failure then a lack of compatability. 

 

So if it were me I would try it and just be prepared to abandoned it if I had to but i'm just personally a huge fan of the idea of being able to matchup with Gio/Brodie on the ice for almost the entire game. Much tougher on the opposition IMO. 

[FueltheFlames1075]

According to Sportsnet, Calgary could very well be in on the Lucic sweepstakes. I am not sure how I feel about giving the term and dollars to Lucic, that he is looking for. I do know that I dislike the alternative of him going to Edmonton or Vancouver. That is not the reason you would sign him, but it would be a side benefit to keep him away from our rivals.

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-trade-rumours-free-agent-milan-lucic-jason-demers-edmonton-oilers-steven-stamkos-bernier-shattenkirk/

[JTech780]

Just out of curiosity what does everyone think the following players will get on the open market:

 

Kyle Okposo

Loui Eriksson

Milan Lucic

Mikael Boedker

Andrew Ladd

Joe Colborne

 

With most of them I am less concerned with the cap hit and more concerned with term. I like Okposo, Eriksson and Lucic but they are going to get a lot of term, all three of them are going to get $6m+. I think we could handle $6m+ with any of them it is 6+ years in term that is hard to stomach.

[Flyerfan52]

Pretty much all dman who play on your 5/6 get sheltered minutes. I don't see coaches throwing Derek Engelland out against Crosby. Be definition a 5/6 dman is sheltered. I'm sorry I mispoke earlier. I just mean by sheltered that he is a 5/6 not the top 3 dman who plays all situations like the oilers tried to get him to do.

As I said I'd only want Schultz cheap like 1-1.5. I get people don't like ex oilers but pretty easy to forget this guy put up 8 points in 18 games for the Penguins and has put up over 30 points a season. Puck moving RH dman like him aren't exactly easy to find and if the flames move Wideman they'll have a need there. Schultz can fill a need an do it for cheap.

RD Zach Redmond can do what Justin Schultz does & play defense. He's also UFA & his last contract was 0.75 x 2.

A few years back when the Jets had most of their D injured (so they moved Buff back to D) Redmond stepped up as a capable fill-in playing 19 minutes average. J Schultz would scare the heck out of me if he had to move off the 3rd pairing/spare part situation.

[Redslinger]

I think 6 years for Okposo would probably be okay, since he's a little younger.  I agree about the other guys though.

[cross16]

Just out of curiosity what does everyone think the following players will get on the open market:

 

Kyle Okposo

Loui Eriksson

Milan Lucic

Mikael Boedker

Andrew Ladd

Joe Colborne

 

With most of them I am less concerned with the cap hit and more concerned with term. I like Okposo, Eriksson and Lucic but they are going to get a lot of term, all three of them are going to get $6m+. I think we could handle $6m+ with any of them it is 6+ years in term that is hard to stomach.

 

I agree with you, Term to me is more important that actual $. I'm not a huge Okposo fan so while he is younger and I can understand a longer term deal its still not something I would do. I personally think Okposos is a bit overrated. Big guy and has size but doens't play to it so i'm not sure its the natural fit here that alot of people do. He's also struggled with injuries in the past and that can alway pop back up when you go past 30. 

 

Not a fan of Boedker on any deal so I pass there but if Eriksson, Lucic, or Ladd were willing to discuss 4 year deal I would be open to that even if meant paying them around 6 million. If I had to guess:

 

Okposo 6 year deal 6.5 AAV

Eriksson - 5 year deal 6 Mill AAV

Lucic - 7 year deal 6.5 AAV

Boedker - 3 year deal 4.75AAV

Ladd - 6 year deal 5.75 mill AAV

Colborne - 3 year deal 3 mill AAV. 

 

That is me guessing and I woudn't give any of those players those deals but I suspect that's what they'll get. 

[travel_dude]

Just out of curiosity what does everyone think the following players will get on the open market:

 

Kyle Okposo

Loui Eriksson

Milan Lucic

Mikael Boedker

Andrew Ladd

Joe Colborne

 

With most of them I am less concerned with the cap hit and more concerned with term. I like Okposo, Eriksson and Lucic but they are going to get a lot of term, all three of them are going to get $6m+. I think we could handle $6m+ with any of them it is 6+ years in term that is hard to stomach.

 

Okposo - $6.25m

Eriksson - $5.5m

Lucic - $7m

Boedker - $3.5m

Ladd - $5.75m

Colborne - $3m

[CheersMan]

I agree with you, Term to me is more important that actual $. I'm not a huge Okposo fan so while he is younger and I can understand a longer term deal its still not something I would do. I personally think Okposos is a bit overrated. Big guy and has size but doens't play to it so i'm not sure its the natural fit here that alot of people do. He's also struggled with injuries in the past and that can alway pop back up when you go past 30. 

 

Not a fan of Boedker on any deal so I pass there but if Eriksson, Lucic, or Ladd were willing to discuss 4 year deal I would be open to that even if meant paying them around 6 million. If I had to guess:

 

Okposo 6 year deal 6.5 AAV

Eriksson - 5 year deal 6 Mill AAV

Lucic - 7 year deal 6.5 AAV

Boedker - 3 year deal 4.75AAV

Ladd - 6 year deal 5.75 mill AAV

Colborne - 3 year deal 3 mill AAV. 

 

That is me guessing and I woudn't give any of those players those deals but I suspect that's what they'll get. 

 

I like Lucic better at 5 years but I would take the Colborne credit and give to Lucic.  You know Burkie is salivating while working his abacus.  With the Elliott acquisition we can now get this done, just need another subtraction or two.

[JTech780]

I agree with you, Term to me is more important that actual $. I'm not a huge Okposo fan so while he is younger and I can understand a longer term deal its still not something I would do. I personally think Okposos is a bit overrated. Big guy and has size but doens't play to it so i'm not sure its the natural fit here that alot of people do. He's also struggled with injuries in the past and that can alway pop back up when you go past 30.

Not a fan of Boedker on any deal so I pass there but if Eriksson, Lucic, or Ladd were willing to discuss 4 year deal I would be open to that even if meant paying them around 6 million. If I had to guess:

Okposo 6 year deal 6.5 AAV

Eriksson - 5 year deal 6 Mill AAV

Lucic - 7 year deal 6.5 AAV

Boedker - 3 year deal 4.75AAV

Ladd - 6 year deal 5.75 mill AAV

Colborne - 3 year deal 3 mill AAV.

That is me guessing and I woudn't give any of those players those deals but I suspect that's what they'll get.

I think your numbers are pretty close. I think whomever signs Lucic is going to have an albatross of a contract in a couple of years, I see him as a player who is going to slow down in short order.

I like Eriksson and I think I could almost stomach that deal for him.

I think Colborne might be the best value of the bunch though. I think people are making too big of a deal over the fact he put a bunch of his points at the end of the season. Most of Monahan's points this season came in February and March as well, is his 63 points not worth that much because of when he scored them.

[MAC331]

I think your numbers are pretty close. I think whomever signs Lucic is going to have an albatross of a contract in a couple of years, I see him as a player who is going to slow down in short order.

I like Eriksson and I think I could almost stomach that deal for him.

I think Colborne might be the best value of the bunch though. I think people are making too big of a deal over the fact he put a bunch of his points at the end of the season. Most of Monahan's points this season came in February and March as well, is his 63 points not worth that much because of when he scored them.

I'm not sure we see any UFAs in the planning for this season. The only one I would like is Brouwer at 4.5M per and a 3 year deal.