2016 Free Agency

[cccsberg]

so we only have 3 hrs until QO's have to be in ..   aside from the obvious ones, (Johnny, Monahan, Wotherspoon, Colborne) 

 

if you had to predict a Surprise yes and a Surprise No. who would it be ?

 

I'll say Joni Ortio will NOT be qualified and Derek Grant WILL be qualified

Surprise No: Agostino

Surprise Yes: Elson

[cross16]

so we only have 3 hrs until QO's have to be in ..   aside from the obvious ones, (Johnny, Monahan, Wotherspoon, Colborne) 

 

if you had to predict a Surprise yes and a Surprise No. who would it be ?

 

I'll say Joni Ortio will NOT be qualified and Derek Grant WILL be qualified

 

Derek Grant isn't an RFA he is a UFA so they can't qualify him.

 

Surprise Yes- Bryce Van Brabrant. Don't think its likely he gets qualified

 

Suprise No - Drew Shore. 

[phoenix66]

Derek Grant isn't an RFA he is a UFA so they can't qualify him.

 

Surprise Yes- Bryce Van Brabrant. Don't think its likely he gets qualified

 

Suprise No - Drew Shore. 

I really gotta stop using HB's  cap central as a reference.. ok , surprise Yes I chance to Bill Arnold

[cross16]

Not a surprise, but Justin Schultz was not qualifed today

 

Frank Seravalli ‏@frank_seravalli  42s42 seconds ago

#Pens did not issue Justin Schultz a qualifying offer, but he could still opt to re-sign in PIT for less than the $3.9M he earned last yr.

 

If the Flames can move Wideman I would absolutely look at Schultz if you can get him 2 mill or less on a 1-2 year deal and see if he wants to try and rebuild his value. Penguins shelterd him in a 5/6 role and used him on their 2nd unit PP and I think he was quite good and IMO is an improvement over Nakladl. I don't mind brinign Nak either, but Schultz gives you more on the PP IMO.

[phoenix66]

Not a surprise, but Justin Schultz was not qualifed today

 

Frank Seravalli ‏@frank_seravalli  42s42 seconds ago

#Pens did not issue Justin Schultz a qualifying offer, but he could still opt to re-sign in PIT for less than the $3.9M he earned last yr.

 

If the Flames can move Wideman I would absolutely look at Schultz if you can get him 2 mill or less on a 1-2 year deal and see if he wants to try and rebuild his value. Penguins shelterd him in a 5/6 role and used him on their 2nd unit PP and I think he was quite good and IMO is an improvement over Nakladl. I don't mind brinign Nak either, but Schultz gives you more on the PP IMO.

that would be an awesome in your face story if it panned out lol

[JTech780]

I still prefer Generalfanager. They also have a protection tool that shows what each team has protected due to NMC's and what players are exempt.

He had a hatty against us. But that was a really bad game. He has numbers in the same range of Bouma's and Jooris' career year, so you have to consider a salary and expectation of no more than that. Certainly not $2.2m.

I don't trust generalfanagers expansion tool, I don't think they have the lists right, for example I don't see how Poirier is exempt.

[travel_dude]

I don't trust generalfanagers expansion tool, I don't think they have the lists right, for example I don't see how Poirier is exempt.

It's one of those things where he played as a 19 year old in pro.  He was eligible because of his birthday, but depends on how the league interprets the 19 year old season.  If they count it as a 18-19 year old season, he would be exempt.  If they count him as being a 20 year old in the year, then he wouldn't be exempt.

 

With Gillies, he didn't actually play in his 1st year, and his 2nd year was less than a full season.

[Flyerfan52]

Not a surprise, but Justin Schultz was not qualifed today

 

Frank Seravalli ‏@frank_seravalli  42s42 seconds ago

#Pens did not issue Justin Schultz a qualifying offer, but he could still opt to re-sign in PIT for less than the $3.9M he earned last yr.

 

If the Flames can move Wideman I would absolutely look at Schultz if you can get him 2 mill or less on a 1-2 year deal and see if he wants to try and rebuild his value. Penguins shelterd him in a 5/6 role and used him on their 2nd unit PP and I think he was quite good and IMO is an improvement over Nakladl. I don't mind brinign Nak either, but Schultz gives you more on the PP IMO.

Best I'd do for Justin Schultz is offer him a PTO. Then we find out if he learned anything in Pitts.

So far he's a detriment to the team whenever he steps on the ice.

 

IF he can earn a spot offer $1 million on a 1 year contract as protection against him resorting to his norm.

*************************************************************************

If a different team signs him he's their reclamation project. Few of those work & I'm not ready to gamble 2 million x 2 on him.

[phoenix66]

http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=887606
 

Quote:

The Calgary Flames announced today that the following four players have received qualifying offers from the club:

Johnny Gaudreau (LW)

Freddie Hamilton ©

Sean Monahan ©

Tyler Wotherspoon (D)

The following players did not receive qualifying offers:

Kenny Agostino (LW)

Bill Arnold ©

Joe Colborne ©

Turner Elson (LW)

Josh Jooris ©

Joni Ortio (G)

Kevin Poulin (G)

Drew Shore ©

Bryce Van Brabant (LW)

Some shockers there !.. Ortio I expected because it leaves their options open to sign either him or a different backup .. Colborne surprises me.. could be they were worried about Arbitration and ths way they can still sign him at a reasonable price if he doesn't get a better offer 

Colborne, Jooris, and Ortio are all being negotiated with further according to Treliving on the Fan right now.

[cccsberg]

Not a surprise, but Justin Schultz was not qualifed today

 

Frank Seravalli ‏@frank_seravalli  42s42 seconds ago

#Pens did not issue Justin Schultz a qualifying offer, but he could still opt to re-sign in PIT for less than the $3.9M he earned last yr.

 

If the Flames can move Wideman I would absolutely look at Schultz if you can get him 2 mill or less on a 1-2 year deal and see if he wants to try and rebuild his value. Penguins shelterd him in a 5/6 role and used him on their 2nd unit PP and I think he was quite good and IMO is an improvement over Nakladl. I don't mind brinign Nak either, but Schultz gives you more on the PP IMO.

Never, Ever, Under Any Circumstances.....

 

One of the primary attributes that the Flames are looking for is character in their players.  Schultz has demonstrated time and time and time again he doesn't have any.  He was willing to skewer the team that gave him his first shot, Anaheim, then how many hundreds of times have we seen him dog it in Edmonton, then he gave up on the team and played so terrible they were forced to trade him, and finally, although better with Pitts I didn't see any dramatic turn-around.  With the D prospects we're looking at ourselves, the ONLY reason people might want him is to throw it back in Edmonton's face, and frankly, it isn't worth it.  Give your heads a shake, NEVER to Schultz!

[bosn111]

The biggest surprises for me are Colborne and Agostino. At the very least, Agostino plays well at the AHL level and could be a short term call up. QO would have at least retained his rights for the ability to use him as a trade piece who still has SOME value.

Colborne would have at least retained his rights, keeping him from signing easily with other teams. I guess this way the Flames offer to match offers to a certain point.

I am not surprised with Ortio or Jooris. The thing is that they can both be re-signed but for lower than their QO, the same as they did with Chiasson.

All of the others were going to be career AHLers with the Flames organization or emergency call ups, but most of them have been long since passed by other players. I would hazard a guess that some of these guys (Agostino, Poulin and Shore at least) are waiver eligible next season so may as well cut them loose now to free up contract spaces which are not waiver eligible.

Shore makes room for Janko at C and Poulin makes room for MacDonald / Rittich I would guess.

Don't really need Schultz unless we move out a whole bunch of Salary as overall benefit at the moment is quite low overall.

[cross16]

Never, Ever, Under Any Circumstances.....

One of the primary attributes that the Flames are looking for is character in their players. Schultz has demonstrated time and time and time again he doesn't have any. He was willing to skewer the team that gave him his first shot, Anaheim, then how many hundreds of times have we seen him dog it in Edmonton, then he gave up on the team and played so terrible they were forced to trade him, and finally, although better with Pitts I didn't see any dramatic turn-around. With the D prospects we're looking at ourselves, the ONLY reason people might want him is to throw it back in Edmonton's face, and frankly, it isn't worth it. Give your heads a shake, NEVER to Schultz!

I didn't realize you were such a close firend of Schulz and had such good insight into his character.

90% of what you hear is overblown IMO and I will never fault a player for trying to maxmize his value. Careers are short and that move paid off financially for Schultz. If that is a character problem for you fine, but it isn't for me and for a guy with such poor character he seems to fit in just fine with the Stanley Cup champs.

I actually want him because he is skilled and when used properly in Pittsburgh was a help to that team. I don't care if he played in Edmonton, Toronot, Pittsburgh or Russia before hand. He's a skilled player and if the Flames lose Wideman having a RH shot that can help on the PP will become a need. Schultz would fit that need but again only if they end up moving Wideman. If they don't, then they have no room for him.

Criticize the player or debate his skill set is fine, disagree with me is fine too but I think it's a little much to question someone character with such little, or really no, insight as to who he is. I don't care if people don't like ideas hit insulting players or posters who are presenting ideas is a bit much.

[travel_dude]

The biggest surprises for me are Colborne and Agostino. At the very least, Agostino plays well at the AHL level and could be a short term call up. QO would have at least retained his rights for the ability to use him as a trade piece who still has SOME value.

Colborne would have at least retained his rights, keeping him from signing easily with other teams. I guess this way the Flames offer to match offers to a certain point.

I am not surprised with Ortio or Jooris. The thing is that they can both be re-signed but for lower than their QO, the same as they did with Chiasson.

All of the others were going to be career AHLers with the Flames organization or emergency call ups, but most of them have been long since passed by other players. I would hazard a guess that some of these guys (Agostino, Poulin and Shore at least) are waiver eligible next season so may as well cut them loose now to free up contract spaces which are not waiver eligible.

Shore makes room for Janko at C and Poulin makes room for MacDonald / Rittich I would guess.

Don't really need Schultz unless we move out a whole bunch of Salary as overall benefit at the moment is quite low overall.

 

Colborne and Ortio are to remove arbitration rights.  BT didn't like the result from Bouma's.  All of these can still be signed to the Flames until July 1st, and packaged in any deals.  Not much value in most of those guys, though.

 

 

...

 

I actually want him because he is skilled and when used properly in Pittsburgh was a help to that team. I don't care if he played in Edmonton, Toronot, Pittsburgh or Russia before hand. He's a skilled player and if the Flames lose Wideman having a RH shot that can help on the PP will become a need. Schultz would fit that need but again only if they end up moving Wideman. If they don't, then they have no room for him. 

 

Still have Nakladal for a PP option, assuming he is re-signed.  Jultz was not very smart defensively, but has good offense.  Maybe he would be better suited as a RW.  He got a bad rap from EDM, but I don't think he is any better a D-man than a lot of guys available for $2m or less.

[cross16]

Colborne and Ortio are to remove arbitration rights. BT didn't like the result from Bouma's. All of these can still be signed to the Flames until July 1st, and packaged in any deals. Not much value in most of those guys, though.

Still have Nakladal for a PP option, assuming he is re-signed. Jultz was not very smart defensively, but has good offense. Maybe he would be better suited as a RW. He got a bad rap from EDM, but I don't think he is any better a D-man than a lot of guys available for $2m or less.

He is a fair bit better than Nak, that is what prompted the idea. I'm fine wth Nak as a fallback of if we are talking about a 5/6 Dman with pp upside, Schiulzt is a pretty big upgrade there again for the right price.

No question he want very good defensivly in Edm but i actually think he started to make progress but he was totally misused. He isn't a top 3 o top 4 Dman he is a 5/6 Dman you need to shelter. When you do that he suddenly isn't sk bad defensivly.

[Cowtownguy]

I would target Weise as long as you can get for $2m or under and 3 years or less.

I am not a fan of Weise. He was lame in Chicago and I was put off by his Scarlett O'Hara moment when Lucic got in his face during the 2014 playoffs. I acknowledge that Lucic can be irritating. I did not like the way he whined to the media about Lucic being so mean. Weise should go play for the London Sillynannies.

[Flyerfan52]

Colborne and Ortio are to remove arbitration rights.  BT didn't like the result from Bouma's.  All of these can still be signed to the Flames until July 1st, and packaged in any deals.  Not much value in most of those guys, though.

 

 

 

Still have Nakladal for a PP option, assuming he is re-signed.  Jultz was not very smart defensively, but has good offense.  Maybe he would be better suited as a RW.  He got a bad rap from EDM, but I don't think he is any better a D-man than a lot of guys available for $2m or less.

He was touted for his offense but never showed it in the NHL. In college & the AHL he did but the most offensive thing about him in the big league was his lack of doing anything a D is expected to do.

He is a fair bit better than Nak, that is what prompted the idea. I'm fine wth Nak as a fallback of if we are talking about a 5/6 Dman with pp upside, Schiulzt is a pretty big upgrade there again for the right price.

No question he want very good defensivly in Edm but i actually think he started to make progress but he was totally misused. He isn't a top 3 o top 4 Dman he is a 5/6 Dman you need to shelter. When you do that he suddenly isn't sk bad defensivly.

If you need to shelter him that much & only use him is certain very limited situations he's a waste of a roster spot.

[cccsberg]

I didn't realize you were such a close firend of Schulz and had such good insight into his character.

90% of what you hear is overblown IMO and I will never fault a player for trying to maxmize his value. Careers are short and that move paid off financially for Schultz. If that is a character problem for you fine, but it isn't for me and for a guy with such poor character he seems to fit in just fine with the Stanley Cup champs.

I actually want him because he is skilled and when used properly in Pittsburgh was a help to that team. I don't care if he played in Edmonton, Toronot, Pittsburgh or Russia before hand. He's a skilled player and if the Flames lose Wideman having a RH shot that can help on the PP will become a need. Schultz would fit that need but again only if they end up moving Wideman. If they don't, then they have no room for him.

Criticize the player or debate his skill set is fine, disagree with me is fine too but I think it's a little much to question someone character with such little, or really no, insight as to who he is. I don't care if people don't like ideas hit insulting players or posters who are presenting ideas is a bit much.

No particular insights other than what was apparent to everyone looking.  Actions speak louder than words, and evolve out of character/habits but if you want to ignore that its your prerogative.  Also, don't think he "fit in" with Pittsburg.  He was a scratch for many games and hardly contributed when in.  Not interested.

[CBTC-FLAMES-EDITION]

Problem with Colborne is he is one of those guys that has a career year in a contract year. If he wants to stay in Calgary, take the discount. Maybe he wants a contract that says he will be protected in the expansion draft and Treliving doesn't want to give it in case next season doesn't work out as well.

[phoenix66]

The more I dissect this, I think its genius. BT essentially opened up realistically close to 5M to play with in free agency. He can use it to re sign one or all 3 of them (colborne, ortio, jooris) or replace them with better options but most importantly at the proper cost.

Somebody wants to overpay them? Have at it

I would not be surprised to see all 3 come back. Colborne im almost positive will be resigned but at likely around 1.5

Ortio if back will be on a 2 way deal again and he will roll the dice on another possible back up. Jooris I have a feeling may not be.

But bottom line is he has around 10M to go shopping with on july 1

[cross16]

He was touted for his offense but never showed it in the NHL. In college & the AHL he did but the most offensive thing about him in the big league was his lack of doing anything a D is expected to do.

If you need to shelter him that much & only use him is certain very limited situations he's a waste of a roster spot.

I

Shelter is a bad word on my part. He needs to play as a 5/6 dman. Limited minutes and in the right situation 5 on 5. He isn't s top 4 guy you can play wherever that's all I mean.

[Flyerfan52]

The more I dissect this, I think its genius. BT essentially opened up realistically close to 5M to play with in free agency. He can use it to re sign one or all 3 of them (colborne, ortio, jooris) or replace them with better options but most importantly at the proper cost.

Somebody wants to overpay them? Have at it

I would not be surprised to see all 3 come back. Colborne im almost positive will be resigned but at likely around 1.5

Ortio if back will be on a 2 way deal again and he will roll the dice on another possible back up. Jooris I have a feeling may not be.

But bottom line is he has around 10M to go shopping with on july 1

It doesn't. BT still has the same 20 million less the cost of re-signing Gaudreau & Monahan he did before. He just has less contracts counting against the maximum. @ General Fanager & all other cap sites the amount committed doesn't include unsigned players.

 

Colbourne @ 1.5 is higher than his QO of 1.4 would have been Taken @ 10% although over 1 million it's 5% so only needed 1.34in that case).

[Flyerfan52]

I

Shelter is a bad word on my part. He needs to play as a 5/6 dman. Limited minutes and in the right situation 5 on 5. He isn't s top 4 guy you can play wherever that's all I mean.

So what do you pay a 5/6 D who you can only play in the right situation with limited minutes?

In that situation he's getting found money as he has no pressure to do anything 95+% of the game until the ideal situation for his limited talents arise.

 

Remember there is a league minimum for what we can pay him.

[travel_dude]

It doesn't. BT still has the same 20 million less the cost of re-signing Gaudreau & Monahan he did before. He just has less contracts counting against the maximum. @ General Fanager & all other cap sites the amount committed doesn't include unsigned players.

 

Colbourne @ 1.5 is higher than his QO of 1.4 would have been Taken @ 10% although over 1 million it's 5% so only needed 1.34in that case).

 

I didn't expect Joe to come in under $2m.  He's better all round than Bouma.  I just don't think he is worth more than Bouma $$.  He needed to score when it mattered.  He also wasted a lot of PP time without getting anything.

 

Other than that, I don't have a beef.  Take away his arbitration rights and he should be motivated to just make a deal, assuming he is interested in the team and the city.

 

And, I adhere to the notion of only going after players in FA that help long term at a reasonable cost or help short term at a bargain cost.  I think we only have enough cap this year  to go after the latter.

[CheersMan]

So what do you pay a 5/6 D who you can only play in the right situation with limited minutes?

In that situation he's getting found money as he has no pressure to do anything 95+% of the game until the ideal situation for his limited talents arise.

 

Remember there is a league minimum for what we can pay him.

 

That’s a $0.9-$1.0M position on a properly balanced team.  I suspect Shultz is still a little tender from the 4 year beating he took in EDM, can’t see him coming back to AB offering a 75% discount.

[phoenix66]

It doesn't. BT still has the same 20 million less the cost of re-signing Gaudreau & Monahan he did before. He just has less contracts counting against the maximum. @ General Fanager & all other cap sites the amount committed doesn't include unsigned players.

 

Colbourne @ 1.5 is higher than his QO of 1.4 would have been Taken @ 10% although over 1 million it's 5% so only needed 1.34in that case).

Im talking about committing to those 3 players. With QO and the threat of arbitration with Joe, he was likely looking around 2.5 for Joe, 1.5 for Jooris and around 1M for Ortio give or take a point here or there, with about 5 M or so left to possibly plug some holes.

Now he has 10m to shop the entire market. Im guessing he can replace all 3, or even resign all 3 for 3 M or less.

So now he has 7 Million

We just became players for the likes of a Ladd, a Lucic, etc...not saying thats his targets, or even if they should be..but bottom line is he now has the freedom to do so

All without moving a contract, which im prett sure is still coming