redfire11 Posted April 13, 2018 Report Share Posted April 13, 2018 24 minutes ago, Carty said: The term 'failed coach' can easily be applied to Gulutzan on a number of levels... and there are just too many failures as a coach to ignore... If he had shown an ability to learn and then adapt his strategies it might be different, but he didn't, and that is perhaps his biggest failure... He has not shown the fans, and more importantly the players on the team enough reasons to believe that he will improve as a coach... and when the lack of faith in a coach that keeps repeating the same mistakes grows, it can only be a detrimental factor regarding the attitude of the players... The Flames can do better for a choice of coaching staff, and that should be the next move... Clean house and start fresh rather that take the high risk of repeating the let downs of this season... Then use the summer to try and get rid of some dead wood and plug some gaping holes in the roster... If Treliving does not do that and next season plays out like this one, he could (should) be on the chopping block next... AND BURKE!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted April 13, 2018 Report Share Posted April 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Carty said: The term 'failed coach' can easily be applied to Gulutzan on a number of levels... and there are just too many failures as a coach to ignore... If he had shown an ability to learn and then adapt his strategies it might be different, but he didn't, and that is perhaps his biggest failure... He has not shown the fans, and more importantly the players on the team enough reasons to believe that he will improve as a coach... and when the lack of faith in a coach that keeps repeating the same mistakes grows, it can only be a detrimental factor regarding the attitude of the players... The Flames can do better for a choice of coaching staff, and that should be the next move... Clean house and start fresh rather that take the high risk of repeating the let downs of this season... Then use the summer to try and get rid of some dead wood and plug some gaping holes in the roster... If Treliving does not do that and next season plays out like this one, he could (should) be on the chopping block next... We are all trying to interpret what the players feel about this coach but it seems no one here is listening to these interviews. I have not detected one negative against how GG and the group went about their season. Mistakes can be corrected, players can be exchanged, holes can be filled and if it is deemed GG didn't do his job then use the offseason to sort it out. If everyone is simply measuring success by the wins and losses or missing the playoffs then I think it is the fans that are off track and ignoring this team isn't ready yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted April 13, 2018 Report Share Posted April 13, 2018 51 minutes ago, MAC331 said: We are all trying to interpret what the players feel about this coach but it seems no one here is listening to these interviews. I have not detected one negative against how GG and the group went about their season. Of course the players didn't't come out and point fingers at Gully to the public... Nor should they... 51 minutes ago, MAC331 said: Mistakes can be corrected, players can be exchanged, holes can be filled That's right... Gully turned out to be a mistake, fire him and then fill the hole... 51 minutes ago, MAC331 said: and if it is deemed GG didn't do his job then use the offseason to sort it out Shouldn't leave it too long as it limits possible choices because other teams will also be looking for a new coach ... Fire Gully before the first round of playoffs end... 51 minutes ago, MAC331 said: If everyone is simply measuring success by the wins and losses or missing the playoffs then I think it is the fans that are off track You already know that is not the case with me, so if you are going to quote me, don't imply it... There is a lot more to it than just losing... It is the how"s and why's a good number of games were lost that bothers me... and I have listed several reasons over time as to how and why Gully has failed and has no doubt contributed heavily to games being lost by making and repeating coaching mistakes... 51 minutes ago, MAC331 said: and ignoring this team isn't ready yet. Hopefully the next coach does a better job of getting them ready... That is yet another example of where Gully failed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted April 13, 2018 Report Share Posted April 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, Carty said: Of course the players didn't't come out and point fingers at Gully to the public... Nor should they... That's right... Gully turned out to be a mistake, fire him and then fill the hole... Shouldn't leave it too long as it limits possible choices because other teams will also be looking for a new coach ... Fire Gully before the first round of playoffs end... You already know that is not the case with me, so if you are going to quote me, don't imply it... There is a lot more to it than just losing... It is the how"s and why's a good number of games were lost that bothers me... and I have listed several reasons over time as to how and why Gully has failed and has no doubt contributed heavily to games being lost by making and repeating coaching mistakes... Hopefully the next coach does a better job of getting them ready... That is yet another example of where Gully failed... No Carty I wasn't pointing any of this at you specifically but I get annoyed with the blame game and all the accusations people dream up to be truth when they just don't know things. I really don't care if they fire GG because I have to think he is a good hockey mind to get this far. Having the job of implementing certain systems that his bosses want take the players buy in and execution of the same. This where I see the major failure, sure GG had his share of in game mistakes but there is nothing to say the team preparation falls on him. IMO Should we have a handful of players that are clowns and don't take winning seriously enough ferret them out and get rid of them. I'm not so sure GG is the main problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebrewcrew Posted April 13, 2018 Report Share Posted April 13, 2018 Friedman on the Fan this morning mentioned Peters has an opt out of his contract. He also mentioned BT is “wrestling” with what to do with his coaching staff. Also went on to conclude that BT is a huge supporter of Peters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtownguy Posted April 13, 2018 Report Share Posted April 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Carty said: Of course the players didn't't come out and point fingers at Gully to the public... Nor should they... That's right... Gully turned out to be a mistake, fire him and then fill the hole... Shouldn't leave it too long as it limits possible choices because other teams will also be looking for a new coach ... Fire Gully before the first round of playoffs end... You already know that is not the case with me, so if you are going to quote me, don't imply it... There is a lot more to it than just losing... It is the how"s and why's a good number of games were lost that bothers me... and I have listed several reasons over time as to how and why Gully has failed and has no doubt contributed heavily to games being lost by making and repeating coaching mistakes... Hopefully the next coach does a better job of getting them ready... That is yet another example of where Gully failed... I agree with you in terms of the timing. Don't wait too long or you risk losing the best choices. I believe that the problems with this team are many. We don't have chemistry, some players are just not talented enough, there may have been insufficient effort at important times, confidence etc. I do believe the coaching is problematic. One of the main reasons that I believe this is that when combinations were not working, there were few changes made, or made fast enough. The writing was on the wall early into the season. I don't see GG growing with the team at all. He seems stuck on certain ways of doing things, and if they don't work, try harder. I hardly believe it is all GG's fault. He had to implement a system with the players that he inherited. I just don't see him improving much next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted April 14, 2018 Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 I'm of the opinion that if GG isn't fired this week, he won't be. It's easily a month long process on hiring new staff, so it's not something to contemplate for a long time. You'd want to get the coaching in place to get familiar and provide some opinions to move "the process" along and grow a strategy. Time waits for no one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted April 14, 2018 Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 Hitchcock announced his retirement yesterday, so add the Stars to the list of teams looking for a coach... If the Flames fire Gully, I doubt that the Stars would offer him the job.. The question the Flames brass needs to ask themselves is what other team would hire Gully as head coach?... I don't think Gully would get any offers... and that brings up the question ;If Gully isn't good enough to get the job with another team, why should the Flames keep him as their coach?'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted April 14, 2018 Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 16 hours ago, MAC331 said: We are all trying to interpret what the players feel about this coach but it seems no one here is listening to these interviews. I have not detected one negative against how GG and the group went about their season. Mistakes can be corrected, players can be exchanged, holes can be filled and if it is deemed GG didn't do his job then use the offseason to sort it out. If everyone is simply measuring success by the wins and losses or missing the playoffs then I think it is the fans that are off track and ignoring this team isn't ready yet. I'm not sure what things you think Gully did well. He's supposed to be a player's coach, yet he can't understand whats wrong with them when they fall apart. He can't even motivate them. He's supposed to understand analytics, yet makes decisions that fly in the face of them. If something doesn't work for 20 games, try it for another 20. A handful of player performed above expectations. Those players are stars. They would do that just based on natural progression. It's like taking credit for McDivot's year. Some developed in spite of their usage and coaching. Very few other players developed. The top two things needed to be fixed. Bottom half of the roster. Coaching staff. No point in fixing one and not the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted April 14, 2018 Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Carty said: Hitchcock announced his retirement yesterday, so add the Stars to the list of teams looking for a coach... If the Flames fire Gully, I doubt that the Stars would offer him the job.. The question the Flames brass needs to ask themselves is what other team would hire Gully as head coach?... I don't think Gully would get any offers... and that brings up the question ;If Gully isn't good enough to get the job with another team, why should the Flames keep him as their coach?'... Kind of like trying to trade a player at low value after a bad season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted April 14, 2018 Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 33 minutes ago, travel_dude said: I'm not sure what things you think Gully did well. He's supposed to be a player's coach, yet he can't understand whats wrong with them when they fall apart. He can't even motivate them. He's supposed to understand analytics, yet makes decisions that fly in the face of them. If something doesn't work for 20 games, try it for another 20. A handful of player performed above expectations. Those players are stars. They would do that just based on natural progression. It's like taking credit for McDivot's year. Some developed in spite of their usage and coaching. Very few other players developed. The top two things needed to be fixed. Bottom half of the roster. Coaching staff. No point in fixing one and not the other. Here we go again with you, same song sheet for 1000 posts. I coached high school football with one of the most successful coaches that had his playbook and systems that never changed. There were seasons where you have all the elements required to execute and win and there are seasons where the parts just are not there. GG was brought in to implement systems that would form a fundamental foundation for this team but none of you want recognzie this takes time. I'm not going to bother answering your points because they are mostly assumptions on your part. You have no idea what is being worked on from a team perspective game in and game out. I think there were a number of progressions and would choose to build on those because that is what's going on with this team. I will keep saying it, this team is a work in progress and not a finished product. Even with your what needs to be fixed. I think the roster from top to bottom needs rethinking with respect to who should play with who along with any needed additions. Coaching I have said if there is a better option go for it but if there isn't, drop Cameron and carry on with GG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted April 14, 2018 Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 15 hours ago, Cowtownguy said: I agree with you in terms of the timing. Don't wait too long or you risk losing the best choices. I believe that the problems with this team are many. We don't have chemistry, some players are just not talented enough, there may have been insufficient effort at important times, confidence etc. I do believe the coaching is problematic. One of the main reasons that I believe this is that when combinations were not working, there were few changes made, or made fast enough. The writing was on the wall early into the season. I don't see GG growing with the team at all. He seems stuck on certain ways of doing things, and if they don't work, try harder. I hardly believe it is all GG's fault. He had to implement a system with the players that he inherited. I just don't see him improving much next year. You don't even know what the choices are yet so I see no reason to hurry any decision unless BT has already made his mind up. Usually there are only a few situations that need changing not "many" for a team to move forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted April 14, 2018 Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 33 minutes ago, MAC331 said: Here we go again with you, same song sheet for 1000 posts. I coached high school football with one of the most successful coaches that had his playbook and systems that never changed. There were seasons where you have all the elements required to execute and win and there are seasons where the parts just are not there. GG was brought in to implement systems that would form a fundamental foundation for this team but none of you want recognzie this takes time. I'm not going to bother answering your points because they are mostly assumptions on your part. You have no idea what is being worked on from a team perspective game in and game out. I think there were a number of progressions and would choose to build on those because that is what's going on with this team. I will keep saying it, this team is a work in progress and not a finished product. Even with your what needs to be fixed. I think the roster from top to bottom needs rethinking with respect to who should play with who along with any needed additions. Coaching I have said if there is a better option go for it but if there isn't, drop Cameron and carry on with GG. Continue on with your insulting posts if you care to. It's what you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted April 14, 2018 Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 7 minutes ago, travel_dude said: Continue on with your insulting posts if you care to. It's what you do. Only with you it seems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stubblejumper1 Posted April 14, 2018 Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 1 hour ago, MAC331 said: Here we go again with you, same song sheet for 1000 posts. I coached high school football with one of the most successful coaches that had his playbook and systems that never changed. There were seasons where you have all the elements required to execute and win and there are seasons where the parts just are not there. GG was brought in to implement systems that would form a fundamental foundation for this team but none of you want recognzie this takes time. I'm not going to bother answering your points because they are mostly assumptions on your part. You have no idea what is being worked on from a team perspective game in and game out. I think there were a number of progressions and would choose to build on those because that is what's going on with this team. I will keep saying it, this team is a work in progress and not a finished product. Even with your what needs to be fixed. I think the roster from top to bottom needs rethinking with respect to who should play with who along with any needed additions. Coaching I have said if there is a better option go for it but if there isn't, drop Cameron and carry on with GG. Correct - nobody on this board has any idea what is being worked on from a team perspective. Every comment on this website worth reading is full of speculation and/or assumptions. If I recall correctly, this is a fan website not an NHL player/coach/GM chat room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted April 14, 2018 Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 16 minutes ago, stubblejumper1 said: Correct - nobody on this board has any idea what is being worked on from a team perspective. Every comment on this website worth reading is full of speculation and/or assumptions. If I recall correctly, this is a fan website not an NHL player/coach/GM chat room. Unfortunately you are correct, it would be good if we could get all the coaches, players and GMs on here. Speculation, assumption and opinions will reign as always which gives us all reasons to participate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted April 14, 2018 Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 19 hours ago, MAC331 said: No Carty I wasn't pointing any of this at you specifically but I get annoyed with the blame game and all the accusations people dream up to be truth when they just don't know things. I really don't care if they fire GG because I have to think he is a good hockey mind to get this far. Having the job of implementing certain systems that his bosses want take the players buy in and execution of the same. This where I see the major failure, sure GG had his share of in game mistakes but there is nothing to say the team preparation falls on him. IMO Should we have a handful of players that are clowns and don't take winning seriously enough ferret them out and get rid of them. I'm not so sure GG is the main problem. I know you’re not naming names but no one can say Sam Bennett doesn’t care because there are a lot of games where he was the only one who was trying. But it’s possible he is losing confidence that it will work in Calgary. Stajan will be gone so he’s an anchor that will be replaced. Who else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted April 14, 2018 Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 6 minutes ago, robrob74 said: I know you’re not naming names but no one can say Sam Bennett doesn’t care because there are a lot of games where he was the only one who was trying. But it’s possible he is losing confidence that it will work in Calgary. Stajan will be gone so he’s an anchor that will be replaced. Who else? I think Bennett improved his game this season and would see his best advantage to breakout on LW with Backlund and Frolik. I would be only guessing who the trouble spots are amongst the players. I think Hamilton was one of them but with moving his brother out I think he was read the riot act for his play to improve because it did from there. I would like to see BT take advantage of Stajan leaving with the moving of Brouwer and Stone so we can up the quality of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted April 14, 2018 Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 4 hours ago, conundrumed said: I'm of the opinion that if GG isn't fired this week, he won't be. It's easily a month long process on hiring new staff, so it's not something to contemplate for a long time. You'd want to get the coaching in place to get familiar and provide some opinions to move "the process" along and grow a strategy. Time waits for no one. Trouble is there will be another round of coaches on hot seat become available if they lose in first round. BT took until early May to fire BH and you have to think that he will take longer to fire "his choice" in GG. BT already used his "get out of jail card" with the BH firing(quote from Cheers). If he makes a change now he has to get it right. This is why he can use his "we support GG and we won't fire the coach for the teams mistakes card". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted April 14, 2018 Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 10 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said: This is why he can use his "we support GG and we won't fire the coach for the teams mistakes card". If Treliving plays that one, doesn't he automatically also have to play the "We are just going to ignore all the basic coaching mistakes that Gully made and kept repeating all season " card?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted April 14, 2018 Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, Carty said: If you play that one, don't you automatically also have to play the "We are just going to ignore all the basic coaching mistakes that Gully made and kept repeating all season " card?... Yes you do that next but... If you play that card you can't play another "fire the coach because you can't fire all the team cards" again. He used that when he fired BH. Next card to play will be the BB card "GM must go card" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted April 14, 2018 Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 25 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said: Next card to play will be the BB card "GM must go card" If Treliving doesn't deliver on an actual grade for RW this summer, we might see that card get played after next season no matter who is coach... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartbreaker Posted April 14, 2018 Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 3 hours ago, travel_dude said: Continue on with your insulting posts if you care to. It's what you do. 3 hours ago, MAC331 said: Only with you it seems Love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted April 14, 2018 Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 58 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said: Trouble is there will be another round of coaches on hot seat become available if they lose in first round. BT took until early May to fire BH and you have to think that he will take longer to fire "his choice" in GG. BT already used his "get out of jail card" with the BH firing(quote from Cheers). If he makes a change now he has to get it right. This is why he can use his "we support GG and we won't fire the coach for the teams mistakes card". I agree there may be more coaches become available, shouldn’t matter to a firing though. I’m doubtful GG will be fired for the reasons you’ve listed. I don’t know what BT has in mind for changes overall, but my own senses tell me BT will be gone next year. This team is a very hard fix right now imho. Not a lot in FA, not much at F on the farm, no picks. Maybe I’m wrong, hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted April 14, 2018 Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, Heartbreaker said: Love. Wow has Ringo ever aged badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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