Glen Gulutzan-16th Flames Coach

[robrob74]

4 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Are you serious, this is how you think coaches should still coach today. LOL

How players start or finish games is part of how they should execute what is being taught to them. Blaming GG for poor play by the players themselves is so incorrect as an interpretation of player responsibility. If they can't execute we have the wrong players not the wrong coach.

 

It is the chicken and the egg analogy. Do we have the wrong players because they can’t play or have the ability to execute his system? Or are they tuning him out, have no respect for him and therefore are not playing his system up to 100% because of that?

[MAC331]

11 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

It is the chicken and the egg analogy. Do we have the wrong players because they can’t play or have the ability to execute his system? Or are they tuning him out, have no respect for him and therefore are not playing his system up to 100% because of that?

My honest assessment is there is enough blame to go around starting with the hiring of BB. BB came in trying to address how to compete against the BIG teams in the Western Conference with big bodies and some truculence. BT goes out and gets Bollig and Brouwer. I think BT has done some good but the rest seems to be patch work leaving the team this season with a bad mix. When you go with moves such as Jagr and they don't work they set you back or you rely on someone like Versteeg who can help when on the ice but has a recent injury history. All said I think the mistakes can be put behind us moving into next season with a few savy moves by BT. If it is determined the players tuned out GG or have no respect for him then BT definitely has to make a change. I just don't think this is the situation. I just don't think we have a number of players playing where the should be and this is due to some lack of experience/performances or we don't have the right player yet.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, Cowtownguy said:

I don't think that we can assess whether he is a good communicator or not. Now that he is gone, a few players have piped up about how he was not particularly nice to them. When the cat's away.... Just because he was harsh on some players does not mean that he was unable to get his message out to most of them. 

 

Hartley was old school. Iron Mike would call players up at 5:00am and tell them to immediately arrive at a bag skate or they would not be playing for a while. Pat Burns was known to call players into his office and then destroy such office while ranting at them. Hartley was cruel with some players at times. GG is trying to be sweetness and light with the odd stick being thrown into the stands to show that he means business. He is unable to get the players to start a game with intensity or end a period with intensity. I doubt many players struggle to understand what their coaches want from them. They just obeyed when the coach was able to generate fear among them.

 

Maybe not. But it's not just Calgary players its players throughout Hartley career. 

He was able to get the most out of them , for a short period of time, which also speaks to his communication skills imo. 

 

I also dont think the coach you are deceiving can exist in today's game. I don't think you motivate through fear anymore 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, Cowtownguy said:

GG is trying to be sweetness and light with the odd stick being thrown into the stands to show that he means business. He is unable to get the players to start a game with intensity or end a period with intensity. I doubt many players struggle to understand what their coaches want from them. They just obeyed when the coach was able to generate fear among them.

 

I'm not sure what you base this on.  He regularly calls out player performance in public, and that is all we see.  The stick throwing and 4-letter tirades are in view of the media.  Who knows what he is like in the room or the messages he gives on the bench.  

 

[Cowtownguy]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Maybe not. But it's not just Calgary players its players throughout Hartley career. 

He was able to get the most out of them , for a short period of time, which also speaks to his communication skills imo. 

 

I also dont think the coach you are deceiving can exist in today's game. I don't think you motivate through fear anymore 

Agreed, but I was suggesting that he is also unable to utilize other tools to impact the team.

 

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm not sure what you base this on.  He regularly calls out player performance in public, and that is all we see.  The stick throwing and 4-letter tirades are in view of the media.  Who knows what he is like in the room or the messages he gives on the bench.  

 

I base it on his obvious inability to get the team to start with intensity at the beginning or end of a period. I can understand losing games. I do not understand lack lustre starts and ends.

[Cowtownguy]

3 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Are you serious, this is how you think coaches should still coach today. LOL

How players start or finish games is part of how they should execute what is being taught to them. Blaming GG for poor play by the players themselves is so incorrect as an interpretation of player responsibility. If they can't execute we have the wrong players not the wrong coach.

I am serious and I did not say that coaches should behave that way.

[cross16]

2 hours ago, Cowtownguy said:

I base it on his obvious inability to get the team to start with intensity at the beginning or end of a period. I can understand losing games. I do not understand lack lustre starts and ends.

 

the most interesting thing about this for me, is if you go back and look at Hartley's last season here you had a lot of this. Not as much the unprepared to start games, although you did have a fair share, but you had a lot of lackluster finishes to games. The last season under Hartley, good 60 min efforts were hard to come by. I think the narrative that has developed over time is to only remember the Hartley Flames as the 14-15 versions and forget the other ones but there was some similar struggles. 

 

I don't bring that up to take a shot at Hartley and i'm not trying to turn this into a Hartley vs Gulutzan debate. It's more about pointing the finger at the players and noticing that now 2 very different styles of coaches are having similar results with a similar group. 

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

Agreed, but I was suggesting that he is also unable to utilize other tools to impact the team.

 

I base it on his obvious inability to get the team to start with intensity at the beginning or end of a period. I can understand losing games. I do not understand lack lustre starts and ends.

 

What I am referring to is that you called him a nice guy.  We have no idea if he is or not.  He lost it twice in public at practice.  He's called out the team in pressers.  I would call BH more of a nice guy, if that's what we are basing it on.

 

The results don't necessarily point to a nice guy approach to the team.  

[MAC331]

15 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

the most interesting thing about this for me, is if you go back and look at this last season here you had a lot of this. Not as much the unprepared to start games, although you did have a fair share, but you had a lot of lackluster finishes to games. The last season under Hartley, good 60 min efforts were hard to come by. I think the narrative that has developed over time is to only remember the Hartley Flames as the 14-15 versions and forget the other ones but there was some similar struggles. 

 

I don't bring that up to take a shot at Hartley and i'm not trying to turn this into a Hartley vs Gulutzan debate. It's more about pointing the finger at the players and noticing that now 2 very different styles of coaches are having similar results with a similar group. 

So what is it ?  do we have to many nice guys or a low intelligence level on this team ?

[JTech780]

I think some need to stop romanticizing the Hartley era. I get being frustrated with Gulutzan, but going back to Hartley would be a step backwards. The way Hartley coached might have been successful 20 years ago, but it doesn't work in today's NHL. His system was basically collapse to the net and block as many shots as you can and wingers just wait out at center ice and hope the defenseman can clear it. He rarely talks to his players, if he does he is playing mind games with them.

 

I am fine if people want to move on from Gulutzan, I get it as I would be happy if they could upgrade from him as well, but can we stop bringing up Hartley like was some kind of super coach. I would be willing to bet that Hartley never coaches in the NHL again.  

[Carty]

If Hartley was such a great coach, we would have still have a job somewhere in the NHL, and there are reasons why...   Word gets around...

 

If Gully gets fired, II don't see him getting a job as a head coach next season either...   Maybe as an assistant, and then perhaps he will get a shot as head coach again down the road a couple of seasons if he earns it...

[travel_dude]

Quote from Gully, for what it's worth:

 

Gulutzan says Versteeg is fighting for playing time like all the bottom 6 forwards. "No, not safe to say he's in... He's pretty much ready to go but we have 5 guys now or 4 guys that are healthy that haven't played for a while"

 

Say what?

[travel_dude]

More...

 

#Flames getting intense. Gulutzan "We've got our veteran guys stepping up and there's been some squabbles which is good, meaning that guys are, like, pushing each other on the bench... when you get that push from your top veteran guys that's when your team's going to grow"

[cross16]

2 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

More...

 

#Flames getting intense. Gulutzan "We've got our veteran guys stepping up and there's been some squabbles which is good, meaning that guys are, like, pushing each other on the bench... when you get that push from your top veteran guys that's when your team's going to grow"

 

This is what Gulutzan has wanted for a while. Too bad it took this long to get it....

[Cowtownguy]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

the most interesting thing about this for me, is if you go back and look at Hartley's last season here you had a lot of this. Not as much the unprepared to start games, although you did have a fair share, but you had a lot of lackluster finishes to games. The last season under Hartley, good 60 min efforts were hard to come by. I think the narrative that has developed over time is to only remember the Hartley Flames as the 14-15 versions and forget the other ones but there was some similar struggles. 

 

I don't bring that up to take a shot at Hartley and i'm not trying to turn this into a Hartley vs Gulutzan debate. It's more about pointing the finger at the players and noticing that now 2 very different styles of coaches are having similar results with a similar group. 

That is a very good point. I would be interested in listening to specific players you find have not changed under both coaches. Then, we can consider whether it is because they lack talent, are injured frequently, or just don't exert sufficient energy, other otherwise.

 

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

What I am referring to is that you called him a nice guy.  We have no idea if he is or not.  He lost it twice in public at practice.  He's called out the team in pressers.  I would call BH more of a nice guy, if that's what we are basing it on.

 

The results don't necessarily point to a nice guy approach to the team.  

Ah, point taken TD. I did/do assume that he is a nice guy, but I thought the same of Hartley. Afterwards, players claimed he was less than nice. I am not sure if he picked on specific players or everyone. 

 

3 hours ago, JTech780 said:

I think some need to stop romanticizing the Hartley era. I get being frustrated with Gulutzan, but going back to Hartley would be a step backwards. The way Hartley coached might have been successful 20 years ago, but it doesn't work in today's NHL. His system was basically collapse to the net and block as many shots as you can and wingers just wait out at center ice and hope the defenseman can clear it. He rarely talks to his players, if he does he is playing mind games with them.

 

I am fine if people want to move on from Gulutzan, I get it as I would be happy if they could upgrade from him as well, but can we stop bringing up Hartley like was some kind of super coach. I would be willing to bet that Hartley never coaches in the NHL again.  

I don't think that anyone is romanticizing the Hartley era. We lost a lot of games during his time here and he used a lot of gimmicks to win games. It was clearly unsustainable. Having said that, it is useful to compare the various coaches. Sutter was just so long ago, that people are not talking about him.

 

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

Quote from Gully, for what it's worth:

 

Gulutzan says Versteeg is fighting for playing time like all the bottom 6 forwards. "No, not safe to say he's in... He's pretty much ready to go but we have 5 guys now or 4 guys that are healthy that haven't played for a while"

 

Say what?

What scares me is that CFR seemed to imply that Chucky is a hurtin' unit. I really hope that he is not out for a long time. We rely on him so much, and that is a problem. A guy at his age should be mentored, not expected to lead the team so much.

[redfire11]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

More...

 

#Flames getting intense. Gulutzan "We've got our veteran guys stepping up and there's been some squabbles which is good, meaning that guys are, like, pushing each other on the bench... when you get that push from your top veteran guys that's when your team's going to grow"

I think there was a spelling error. and GG introduced the guys to aromatherapy so it should read.

  #Flames getting incense

[Cowtownguy]

4 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

I think there was a spelling error. and GG introduced to the guys to aromatherapy so it should read.

  #Flames getting incense

Too funny. 

[Carty]

22 hours ago, travel_dude said:

#Flames getting incensed.

 

Gulutzan "The  refs gotta start making some  calls, like when   Draisaitl gave a head shot to Hamilton the other night...   Same  thing when Chucky gets  blindsided into the  boards in the game before that against the Isles...   Or I'm going to have to start throwing some  sticks at the  refs"

 

Solved...

[CBTC-FLAMES-EDITION]

I think this is a mote point very soon. He will be gone shortly or half the team will. One is easier then the other 

[tmac70]

One Has to review the year and place responsibily where it needs to be. 1) the systems we play do not work with this group, thats coach 2) the inabity to adapt to the systems after 2 years, some players and coach 3) poor specialty team play, coach 4) lack of intensity, some players and coach. 5) accountabilty, everyone.

 

Is it not the players that Feaster and crew had or acquired the ones that seem to have excelled? Hamilton, Brower, Hamonic, Bennett, Lazar. are all BT choices and seem to struggle. He may be good at contracts but piss poor at player selection. Than there is GG, really when your players can not get up for a game or as he says lose confidance, what the Blockchain has he done to create that. Will repeat i am for a cleansing of all staff, I remove, Brodie, Hamilton, Stone, Frohlick, Verstig, Brower, Stajan and Bennett and re tool this thing. 

[travel_dude]

~~~

Hamilton not doing well?  2nd in scoring the last 2 years by a D.

Hamonic looks chained out there with Brodie.  Not a good pairing.

 

Bennett looked good prior to last year, didn't he?

 

What is the one thing in common with the last two years?  Gully.

Move Brodie to LD at the expense of a good pairing.

Refuse to change up the 3M line when they struggle.  

Refuse to sit a vet even when they have played like crap most of the season.

Decide that the best offensive D-man shouldn;t play on the top PP unit and go woth Brodie for 50 games.

 

I agree the team needs a makeover.  Start with the coaches.  Drop your overpaid 3rd pair or 4th line players.  Make a trade to improve the team's biggest hole - RW depth.

We have very good depth waiting in the wings for spot on defense.  Just go ahead and pull the rip cord.  A defense with Andersson, Kylington, Kulak and Spoon couldn;t do any worse than Brodie, Stone, Kulak and Bart.  Cost about $8m less.  Trade Bennett for a player like Haula - a guy who can skate.   

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

One Has to review the year and place responsibily where it needs to be. 1) the systems we play do not work with this group, thats coach 2) the inabity to adapt to the systems after 2 years, some players and coach 3) poor specialty team play, coach 4) lack of intensity, some players and coach. 5) accountabilty, everyone.

 

Is it not the players that Feaster and crew had or acquired the ones that seem to have excelled? Hamilton, Brower, Hamonic, Bennett, Lazar. are all BT choices and seem to struggle. He may be good at contracts but piss poor at player selection. Than there is GG, really when your players can not get up for a game or as he says lose confidance, what the Blockchain has he done to create that. Will repeat i am for a cleansing of all staff, I remove, Brodie, Hamilton, Stone, Frohlick, Verstig, Brower, Stajan and Bennett and re tool this thing. 

 

But how do you sign Backlund long term and than act like there needs to be major changes?  A decision has to have been made going forward at TDL and it was made.  Rather than trade Backlund for picks and prospects and then have a big summer to revamp the look of the team, don't expect major changes whatsoever now.  We will keep much of the same team for next season and expect different results.  This is basically what BT is saying with his actions.

 

Look at the Blues on the other hand.  They were honest so they traded Stastny.  Next season, they get Fabbri back healthy and will add a piece with the money saved from Stastny.  They going to make a big splash this summer.

 

But the Flames?  Nope.  We are too short sighted.

[tmac70]

7 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

But how do you sign Backlund long term and than act like there needs to be major changes?  A decision has to have been made going forward at TDL and it was made.  Rather than trade Backlund for picks and prospects and then have a big summer to revamp the look of the team, don't expect major changes whatsoever now.  We will keep much of the same team for next season and expect different results.  This is basically what BT is saying with his actions.

 

Look at the Blues on the other hand.  They were honest so they traded Stastny.  Next season, they get Fabbri back healthy and will add a piece with the money saved from Stastny.  They going to make a big splash this summer.

 

But the Flames?  Nope.  We are too short sighted.

I do not disagree with a change but I am fine with Backs right now. Backs is not our issue our glories D in my opinion. Last night is a common trend missed assignment poor coverage and BAM in the net. Granted Smitty did not play well but he has won more for us than lost.

[MAC331]

7 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

But how do you sign Backlund long term and than act like there needs to be major changes?  A decision has to have been made going forward at TDL and it was made.  Rather than trade Backlund for picks and prospects and then have a big summer to revamp the look of the team, don't expect major changes whatsoever now.  We will keep much of the same team for next season and expect different results.  This is basically what BT is saying with his actions.

 

Look at the Blues on the other hand.  They were honest so they traded Stastny.  Next season, they get Fabbri back healthy and will add a piece with the money saved from Stastny.  They going to make a big splash this summer.

 

But the Flames?  Nope.  We are too short sighted.

I don't get this viewpoint at all. The Flames are not near the point of building that they should be trading what good players they have away. STL must have been confident they could over come the loss of Stastny but I don't see them in playoffs. Failing to recognize where this team is truly at in their own building process is why we see all these negative comments. Expectations have to be real and managing expectations as key failures and injuries occur throughout any season will help you.

Having said this I think with a few corrections this team could be way better next season.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, tmac70 said:

I do not disagree with a change but I am fine with Backs right now. Backs is not our issue our glories D in my opinion. Last night is a common trend missed assignment poor coverage and BAM in the net. Granted Smitty did not play well but he has won more for us than lost.

 

The 3M line hasn't been great at preventing goals this year.  More relaiance on scoring and when they aren't doing that, we get scored on and don't score.  Frolik has not been nearly the same as last year.  Tkachuk is more an offensive player now.  I think they really need to take Tkachuk off that line and rebuild a defensive shut-down line.

I don't think we have the right players for that.  If there is a market, I'm leaning towards moving Frolik and Bennett.  Third line is basically just Janko at this point.  Dube might be the right fit for him.  RW?  No idea.  That line should be our 2nd offensive line, but be able to take important draws.  The 4th line is a mess.  At least you can sign UFA's at a reasonable cost to fill it up.  Shore may be a good fit.  Beyond that, maybe some of the farm hands.

 

Since this thread is about Gully, I think it's doubtful he's the right guy to take this team any further.  If the team was set, and we had vets that could take us to the next level, then he might be the right guy.  MIGHT.  Since this team needs a makeover beyond JH, Monahan, Backlund, Tkachuk, Janko, Gio, Hammy and Hammer (yes I include him), I don;t see Gully being able to properly set up lines or pairs.  Or evaluate new talent.  Tkachuk could play anywhere in the lineup and succeed.  JH could make Stajan look like a star. 

 

We have the likes of Dube, Gawdin, Kylington, Andersson, Valimaki becoming options next season.  Possibly Fox as well.  Far too much talent to keep playing scrubs.