Glen Gulutzan-16th Flames Coach

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

Be careful not to over rate Gawdin, he is about to turn 21 and is still playing in the WHL, his highest point total prior to this season was 59. Most NHL prospects his age are playing pro. While the point totals this year are awesome, don't expect him to put up high point totals in pro.

 

I not overrating him.  It's not like Bennett, Janko, and Hathaway are tearing up the NHL though.  As a 21 year old, he has size and seems to be able to score at a good pace.  As a 19/20 year old he was scoring goals at almost .5/gp.  Even when Steenbergen was out, he still was scoring.

 

Unless we trade Bennett or Brodie for a top 6 RW, we have needs.  

[cross16]

5 hours ago, JTech780 said:

On headlines last night they were talking about how Trotz is in the final year of his contract and his future with the team in uncertain. They also mentioned that Todd Reirden might be their next coach, and how they denied the Coyotes, Sabres and Panthers permission to speak with Reirden in the past.

 

Trotz is an upgrade but boy is he ever a boring hire. Hasn't exactly taken the Cap much further. Pretty safe hire and he'll keep you competitive but I'm not sure trotz Is the guy you want if you want to win a cup. 

Reirdon, if he got the job, will be of interest to flames fans as he was the rumored runner up to Gulutzan. 

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I not overrating him.  It's not like Bennett, Janko, and Hathaway are tearing up the NHL though.  As a 21 year old, he has size and seems to be able to score at a good pace.  As a 19/20 year old he was scoring goals at almost .5/gp.  Even when Steenbergen was out, he still was scoring.

 

Unless we trade Bennett or Brodie for a top 6 RW, we have needs.  

I think a lot could be solved in trading both Brodie and Bennett . We get rid of all Brodie's mistakes and weak defense and with Bennett we quit waiting for him to produce.

We need a top 6 RW with some proven production so the decision can be made where best to play Tkachuk and Ferland with their production.

[JTech780]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Trotz is an upgrade but boy is he ever a boring hire. Hasn't exactly taken the Cap much further. Pretty safe hire and he'll keep you competitive but I'm not sure trotz Is the guy you want if you want to win a cup. 

Reirdon, if he got the job, will be of interest to flames fans as he was the rumored runner up to Gulutzan. 

 

To be fair he never had an owner willing to spend while he was in Nashville, like they do now, and that Washington team has been among the most overrated in the history of the NHL.

 

 

[cross16]

26 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

To be fair he never had an owner willing to spend while he was in Nashville, like they do now, and that Washington team has been among the most overrated in the history of the NHL.

 

 

 

Could be. Like I said not a bad coach just not a great one imo either. Safe, structure but I'm not sure he allows enough freedom for a team to really compete at the high end. I've always found that to be a common theme in his teams. 

 

[robrob74]

Jersey fired their coach going into the playoffs one year. But Lou was a coach so he had more faith in himself. 

[cross16]

16 hours ago, robrob74 said:

Jersey fired their coach going into the playoffs one year. But Lou was a coach so he had more faith in himself. 

 

Did it twice actually. First time was very successful as they gave the job to Larry Robinson and won the cup. 2nd time Lou came down but they only won 1 round and they were well on their way to making the playoffs anyway when Lou fired Julien.

 

Really only works if you have someone in the organization you believe in. Robinson was an assistant for the Devils when they gave him the head job and obviusly Lou as you mentioned has coaching experience. I'd be willing to guarantee Gulutzan is not going to be fired before the off-season because I think the only way the Flmaes would do it is if they believe Cameron, Jarrad or Huska was better. I would not believe that to be the case. 

[ABC923]

There's no point making a change at this point in the season, especially now that we're more or less out of it.  May as well ride it out now.

[redfire11]

1 hour ago, ABC923 said:

There's no point making a change at this point in the season, especially now that we're more or less out of it.  May as well ride it out now.

If the guys can't execute a system in 2 years they sure won't "get" a new one in 16 games.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, redfire11 said:

If the guys can't execute a system in 2 years they sure won't "get" a new one in 16 games.

 

I assume the coaches are reiterating their plans to the players. Is he a broken record?

 

sometimes my biggest problem with coaches were getting different messages every time they talked. I know these guys are pros, but look at Ferland over the years, how they toned him down.  

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, redfire11 said:

If the guys can't execute a system in 2 years they sure won't "get" a new one in 16 games.

 

When you throw out the playbook, sometimes the natural skills of the players take over.

Probably more scoring.

Could they get any more goals against?

Smith was the reason why it was low, not the "system".

[rickross]

The Gulutzan experiment is effectively over IMO. This team has already peaked under his tutelage. Mike Smith has literally " padded" the deficiencies of this team. Flames have played a more structured possession game under GG but he's not the coach to take this team to the next level. Flames have taken a clear step back this year and now can't even balance this season out with a strong draft. I don't see much reason to keep him for year 3.

[The_People1]

I don't put all the blame on GG because too many games have been single handedly lost by Brodie and Hamonic who couldn't hockey at critical times.  You can X's and O's all day long but when players don't execute then there is nothing a coach can do.

[cross16]

I agree with People here. GG needs to wear blame for sure but I put a majority of it on the players personally. Players and a lack of depth are the primary reason the Flames are where they are, not coaching. 

 

I'm not tied to him coming back. I would lean that way now mostly because who are you going to replace him with? For me I don't like any of the available veteran coaches or the ones rumored to be available. I don't think Quneville goes anywhere and I don't like the idea of Sutter, Tippett, Trotz, Vigneault, Ruff, Bylsma or anyone like that. I think if you wanted to move on from GG you are going to go a similar route and hire a coach who is short on experience and whose resume won't wow you. Doesn't mean that coach won't be better but also means they could be the same or worse. Just not sure it's the slam dunk decision a lot of people do. 

 

I'd lean more towards replacing Cameron and/or Jarrard with a coach who has a little more experience. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

I don't put all the blame on GG because too many games have been single handedly lost by Brodie and Hamonic who couldn't hockey at critical times.  You can X's and O's all day long but when players don't execute then there is nothing a coach can do.

 

I don't think anyone has said that Gully is the only reason.  

There are too many.

Right now we are experiencing the reality of playing two AHL callups.  Rittich should have had more net while Smith was healthy.

The players are wound too tightly to execute simple plays when they get a meager lead.  

The shots are delayed until a "perfect" one is available.  Opportunities missed to ensure you have the perfect angle or lane.

Where is the leadership for this team?  Our guys get creamed on the ice and we don't plaster Crosby to the boards?  Or remind Landeskog about his illegal check? 

You have a good opportunity to build on a solid game by Bennett, but you insert Stewart there for no good reason.  You play Glass because NY is in town.

The D pairs are not working out some nights, yet you don't ask the GM to bring in Andersson.  Is the coach seeing something I don't?

 

Rant over.  I don't expect much to happen before the end of summer, after good coaches are fired and hired.  It would do well to have those decisions made now and executed in June.  Give him the support and make roster decisions or fire the lot.

[cross16]

7 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I don't think anyone has said that Gully is the only reason.  

 

 

You must not be on Twitter 

[travel_dude]

Just now, cross16 said:

 

You must not be on Twitter 

 

I meant here.  But even Twitter balances out the coaches with the players.

Most have been calling for Cameron's head since day 1.

[The_People1]

24 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I'm not tied to him coming back. I would lean that way now mostly because who are you going to replace him with? For me I don't like any of the available veteran coaches or the ones rumored to be available. I don't think Quneville goes anywhere and I don't like the idea of Sutter, Tippett, Trotz, Vigneault, Ruff, Bylsma or anyone like that. I think if you wanted to move on from GG you are going to go a similar route and hire a coach who is short on experience and whose resume won't wow you. Doesn't mean that coach won't be better but also means they could be the same or worse. Just not sure it's the slam dunk decision a lot of people do. 

 

I'd lean more towards replacing Cameron and/or Jarrard with a coach who has a little more experience. 

 

I think it's a must to replace Cameron at the very least.  

 

I'm thinking Vigneault would be a good hire.  He's done well when given a good roster and I think we can have that here after one good summer.

 

Why no Sutter?  Maybe his tactics just won't work on young players?

[JTech780]

I certainly wouldn't put all the blame on Gulutzan for the way this season has gone, I would go as far to say he isn't even the main reason this season has been disappointing. That being said he does deserve some of the blame. As this season crawls to an end for the Flames I am leaning more and more to Gulutzan being replaced at the end of the season.

 

I think this team needs someone mentality wise in between the harsh and overbearing style of Hartley and the more positive, upbeat style of Gulutzan. I don't think the systems or style of play is the issue with this team, I think what you saw last night was the style of play Gulutzan has been trying to implement all season, fast and with lots of pressure, the team either doesn't have the pieces or flat out doesn't execute that game plan on too many nights.

 

I think the young guys on this team need a coach that can demand a certain level of respect and accountability from the players, I think that is the main ingredient missing at this point. I also think this team needs a coach that knows when to lean on his players and when to back off. In this league you can't be constantly barking at your team or they will start to tuning you out.

 

If Barry Trotz becomes available he is the ideal coach to me, he seems to be tough on his players and ask a lot, but at the same time he is honest and fair with them. It is concerning that he has never gotten a team past the 2nd round.

 

Alain Vigneault seems to have the same qualities as Trotz and I am guessing he will be available. He has had more playoff success, getting to the finals twice and to the 3rd round once in the last 11 seasons. The concerning thing with him is that he has a reputation for being difficult with young players and really leaning on his vets.

 

Kevin Dineen is a guy that is interesting to me. He has been an assistant to Quenneville for the last 4 seasons, so he has been learning from one of the best. He didn't have much success with Florida in his first go around as a head coach, but he deserves another shot.

 

Darryl Sutter is a fantastic coach and has the Cup rings to prove it. My biggest issue with him, is his grinding style of coach can wear on players, he is constantly on players and his style of game takes away a lot of creativity from the players. All that is fine when you are winning, but if you don't have success the players will turn on him quickly.

[cross16]

20 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

I'm thinking Vigneault would be a good hire.  He's done well when given a good roster and I think we can have that here after one good summer.

 

Why no Sutter?  Maybe his tactics just won't work on young players?

 

I could stomach Vigneault I just wouldn't be thrilled. not sure he is the guy to get more out of the young players and I think he's part of the reason the Rangers have fallen off. Rangers are still pretty talented but he seems pretty set in his ways. 

 

For me with Sutter it's part I want someone better with young players but mostly I don't want his system. Plays too conservative a branch of hockey for me and I don't think that wins anymore. I don't think that fits very well with what the Flames are building. 

[redfire11]

I am on the Kevin Dineen bandwagon. He is a PP specialist and has a good track record with the younger players. The only problem is I see Chi promoting him to head coach next year.

[travel_dude]

Whatever happens, the decisions need to be made early enough to have options.

That goes to both players and coaches.

I don't know if Trotz will get the boot, but if he did he would be high on my list.

I don't think a coach with little experience in a winning organization makes sense.

Gully came from two teams that were not winning.

Cameron was responsible for a putrid PP.

Jerrard has links going back to the Stars with Gully.  Funny how he served under Gully until they were both fired.

[JTech780]

10 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

I am on the Kevin Dineen bandwagon. He is a PP specialist and has a good track record with the younger players. The only problem is I see Chi promoting him to head coach next year.

 

Quenneville is set to make $6m for the next 2 seasons, I can't see Chicago eating $12m to promote Dineen next year.

[cross16]

4 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

I am on the Kevin Dineen bandwagon. He is a PP specialist and has a good track record with the younger players. The only problem is I see Chi promoting him to head coach next year.

 

Blackhawks currently have the 28th ranked PP in the league. 

 

Maybe he deserves another chance but when you lose a team after 1 season that scares the crap out of me. I know when his name came up the last go around Warrener commented that he has friends on that Florida team and they all hated him. Dineen is a step back IMO. 

[tmac70]

When Gully was 1st hired many were excited about the style of play he preached. Which was great if we had those type of players, this was why I believed the hire was wrong to begin with. He has watered down so many players, taken the edge of this team and has the attitude that if you play well and lose its satisfactory, its about winning and the hatred for defeat.  Give me a ribbon and pat me on the back for trying is a recipe for what we have failure.