MAC331 Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 50 minutes ago, travel_dude said: Regarless of the way they come out next game, they have to do something with the PP. You have to have more than one option for scoring goals. Johnny isn't going to gain the zone every time, nor will his passing options be available exactly the same. Last year we managed a much better PP to end the season. Same people, except for Versteeg. We have tried the 4F 1D top unit for 99% of the season with very sketchy results. The only time we were doing well was when Monahan was scoring on money shots. Last year, we had two different looks on the PP and the 2nd unit became the defacto top unit, even though playing 2nd in rotation. If one didn't work, the other usually did. I didn't understand the last change before the tying goal. You are trying to keep a lead and you dump the puck to get off. You change every single player. All of a sudden, you have to defend a likely EN push by the other team. Wouldn't it have been a good time to send a player like Ferland in and just change up the other forwards? Try to keep the play deep to prevent the push? I also don't understand why Gully hangs onto timeouts like that. From the 5 minute left point onward, the VGK had started to really push. There was at least one opportunity to take a time out before the tying goal. After that goal, there was a perrfect reason to take the timeout and devise a way to keep the game in check and set up for OT. I'll give Vegas the smarts for rolling their lines. They know how to do it, because they have no true #1 line, just a top 20 goal scorer or two. Everyone except Monahan was was struggling to win faceoffs last night. Don't know what you can do about that other than try some other option. Bottom line is this coach needs to figure out line matching. Last change should give you the best chance to win the matchup. Since we don't have that luxury on the road, yet still have a better record, it seems like we have it backwards. Get your application in, there definitely could be an opening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABC923 Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 Gully hangs on to time-outs because he figures they are more useful as potential challenges. I can't remember the last time he called a time-out aside from when we are making an EN push at the end of a game. If you told me he never used a time-out to calm things down in the last 2 seasons, I would believe you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 18 minutes ago, ABC923 said: Gully hangs on to time-outs because he figures they are more useful as potential challenges. I can't remember the last time he called a time-out aside from when we are making an EN push at the end of a game. If you told me he never used a time-out to calm things down in the last 2 seasons, I would believe you. IIRC, scoring plays are reviewed in the last 2 minutes of a game and OT. Same with SO goals. Not all of these end up with a call to the timekeeper's bench. 27 minutes ago, MAC331 said: Get your application in, there definitely could be an opening. Don't have the hairdo for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 19 minutes ago, ABC923 said: Gully hangs on to time-outs because he figures they are more useful as potential challenges. I can't remember the last time he called a time-out aside from when we are making an EN push at the end of a game. If you told me he never used a time-out to calm things down in the last 2 seasons, I would believe you. The players lost that game plain and simple, to try and hang it on GG this time is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 Just now, travel_dude said: IIRC, scoring plays are reviewed in the last 2 minutes of a game and OT. Same with SO goals. Not all of these end up with a call to the timekeeper's bench. Don't have the hairdo for that. Do a Punch Imlach and wear a hat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABC923 Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 1 hour ago, MAC331 said: The players lost that game plain and simple, to try and hang it on GG this time is ridiculous. Ultimately the players always are the ones who win and lose the game. But there is plenty of blame to go around here. Frolik, for obvious reasons. Brodie and Smith, for being unable to adjust on an unexpected play. Hamilton for a bad pinch after the face-off. And GG, for not recognizing his team had been scrambling for several shifts, leading up to an unlucky goal. I highly doubt we get scored on ten seconds later if we take a time-out, calm our players down, and slow-up Vegas's momentum. Could have also used the timeout after the go-ahead goal to draw up plans and again, settle the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted January 31, 2018 Report Share Posted January 31, 2018 1 hour ago, ABC923 said: Ultimately the players always are the ones who win and lose the game. But there is plenty of blame to go around here. Frolik, for obvious reasons. Brodie and Smith, for being unable to adjust on an unexpected play. Hamilton for a bad pinch after the face-off. And GG, for not recognizing his team had been scrambling for several shifts, leading up to an unlucky goal. I highly doubt we get scored on ten seconds later if we take a time-out, calm our players down, and slow-up Vegas's momentum. Could have also used the timeout after the go-ahead goal to draw up plans and again, settle the team. Perhaps it would have made some difference but I don't think so. Hard to fix stupidity on the fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 1 hour ago, MAC331 said: Perhaps it would have made some difference but I don't think so. Hard to fix stupidity on the fly. Then what you’re saying is we are investing in the wrong players. That’s also on the coach because he decides how to use stupidity... the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 1 hour ago, MAC331 said: Perhaps it would have made some difference but I don't think so. Hard to fix stupidity on the fly. Gully couldn't have helped prevent the Frolik/Brodie screw up at that particular small moment in time, but it very well might not have happened if he had called a timeout after the whistle prior to when it happened to give them a chance to have a breather, settle down, and go over "the plan" to come away with 2 points... Gully definitely should have then called a timeout after the tying goal, same reasons except for then changing "the plan" to go to OT at least giving them 1 point, but hopefully 2... But I suppose it's hard to fix stupidity behind the bench... Especially when a coach keeps repeating the same mistakes... Unless Gully wakes up and smells the coffee, sooner or later it will come to a point when Gully is seen as being just too stubborn to make the appropriate changes to his strategies and "systems", and Treliving will have to have a serious sit down with a few other top brass and discuss replacing Gully along with all, or at least the majority of the coaching staff... Cameron was a huge mistake in the first place, and the PP he is responsible for is proof of that, but in the end, Gully is still responsible for the PP as well... It's getting close to the point where it might be best to just clean house... During an interview a few weeks ago before the winning streak, Gully said something like "it wasn't really a problem until you lost 3 in a row"... Well that was 5... It's a problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 Losing four in a row was ok because we got 4 points. Now it is only 4 out if 10 points. Team looked ok though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carty Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, robrob74 said: Team looked ok though... At some point the question becomes, what would the team look like with better coaching?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 9 minutes ago, Carty said: At some point the question becomes, what would the team look like with better coaching?... I like the idea of next years team already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 7 hours ago, travel_dude said: Regarless of the way they come out next game, they have to do something with the PP. You have to have more than one option for scoring goals. Johnny isn't going to gain the zone every time, nor will his passing options be available exactly the same. Last year we managed a much better PP to end the season. Same people, except for Versteeg. We have tried the 4F 1D top unit for 99% of the season with very sketchy results. The only time we were doing well was when Monahan was scoring on money shots. Last year, we had two different looks on the PP and the 2nd unit became the defacto top unit, even though playing 2nd in rotation. If one didn't work, the other usually did. I didn't understand the last change before the tying goal. You are trying to keep a lead and you dump the puck to get off. You change every single player. All of a sudden, you have to defend a likely EN push by the other team. Wouldn't it have been a good time to send a player like Ferland in and just change up the other forwards? Try to keep the play deep to prevent the push? I also don't understand why Gully hangs onto timeouts like that. From the 5 minute left point onward, the VGK had started to really push. There was at least one opportunity to take a time out before the tying goal. After that goal, there was a perrfect reason to take the timeout and devise a way to keep the game in check and set up for OT. I'll give Vegas the smarts for rolling their lines. They know how to do it, because they have no true #1 line, just a top 20 goal scorer or two. Everyone except Monahan was was struggling to win faceoffs last night. Don't know what you can do about that other than try some other option. Bottom line is this coach needs to figure out line matching. Last change should give you the best chance to win the matchup. Since we don't have that luxury on the road, yet still have a better record, it seems like we have it backwards. Actually they have 6 forwards on pace for 20+ goals. Karlsson alone on pace for 45 goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robrob74 Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 45 minutes ago, Carty said: At some point the question becomes, what would the team look like with better coaching?... I don’t know? I mean, in the overtime show on the fan, all Pat seemed to go on about was how they didn’t look bad, and that they didn’t look fragile, and how they seemed in control. The idea of a timeout, to him, didn’t seem necessary, which I differ. My comment was sarcasm about moral victories and clinging on to something positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 29 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said: Actually they have 6 forwards on pace for 20+ goals. Karlsson alone on pace for 45 goals. Right now they have two top 20 goal scorers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfire11 Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Carty said: At some point the question becomes, what would the team look like with better coaching?... We would be debating how many rounds we would go in the playoffs instead of wondering if we are going to be in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipper14 Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 Before we toss Gulatzan, the coaching staff responsible for running our PP needs to absolutely been fired, and I can't believe they haven't been already. In every single game over this 5 game losing streak, had we not had one of the most inept PP's I have ever seen and actually converted on a PP chance when it mattered, we are probably looking at an 11 game win streak! Let's take the Vegas game for example, we are up 2-1 in the third and get a PP which could put the game away and provide a safety net and we can't convert, had we converted we are probably looking at a different game and most likely take two points. The players need to take some of the blame for not converting on some chances, but in the end the PP systems we are running are just so fricken predictable it's disgusting, player sits on the side boards, back to the point, over to other d man, back to player on half boards, back to point, rinse and repeat until we finally get a shot from the point which either gets blocked or goes wide, other team knows position to be in to scoop up puck and ice it due to our predictable PP. All our opposition needs to do is block shooting lanes and cover Mony and they have a sure kill. We know that Special Teams is just so crucial and we are losing the special teams battle in all of these losses, this is on Treliving to fix this problem because even if we squeak into playoffs, you won't win in the playoffs if you aren't winning the special teams battles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 I am only going to comment on the need to get the PP going. Lack of goal scoring there has probably been the difference between being outside looking in and 2nd in the division. Every single 2-1 loss had some opportunities that were not exploited: WGP - 0 for 4 on the PP LA - 0 for 5 on the PP Buff - 1 for 3, but after the PP goal was scored, CGY went on the PP twice before the first period ended EDM - 0 for 4 against the worst PK in history at home VGK - 0 for 3 Those games alone left 6 points on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 8 minutes ago, travel_dude said: I am only going to comment on the need to get the PP going. Lack of goal scoring there has probably been the difference between being outside looking in and 2nd in the division. Every single 2-1 loss had some opportunities that were not exploited: WGP - 0 for 4 on the PP LA - 0 for 5 on the PP Buff - 1 for 3, but after the PP goal was scored, CGY went on the PP twice before the first period ended EDM - 0 for 4 against the worst PK in history at home VGK - 0 for 3 Those games alone left 6 points on the table. Agreed, it's imperative this PP starts to contribute. The rest of the team's game has improved IMO outside of the injuries (maybe in spite of them). We can't keep giving points away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_People1 Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 In regards to the PP, we have a big shot in Stone but for whatever reason, don't use him much. It's clear we want to create everything down low and off the side boards but in order to make room, you have to make the other team respect your shot from the point. You have to stretch out their PK box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 23 minutes ago, The_People1 said: In regards to the PP, we have a big shot in Stone but for whatever reason, don't use him much. It's clear we want to create everything down low and off the side boards but in order to make room, you have to make the other team respect your shot from the point. You have to stretch out their PK box. One of the big problems I have with the PP is just that. Gio is a great guy, but he's ineffective at getting the shot through. How many times have we seen him his a player's shins less than 10 feet away and it end up going the other way? Of those times how many times has Gio taken a penalty because of it? Brodie is basically playing like a forward when he's on the PP. He's lucky when he doesn't turnover the puck at the blueline. We take enough penalties to give Gio and Brodie more than 20 minutes of ice. Since neither of them seems to be providing much positive play, why not go elsewhere? Hammy for the top unit and Gio-Stone or even Kulak-Stone for the 2nd unit. Hammy is one of the best zone-entry and shot producers we have, yet he gets 2nd unit time at best. Suggesting Kulak-Stone only because they play together rasonably well. Kulak is fast enough to recover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABC923 Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 Here are the flames D, in order of getting shots through. Hamilton: 48.9% Bartkowski: 47.6% Brodie: 44.6% Giordano: 44.3% Kulak: 39.5% Hamonic: 39% Stone: 38.4% Stone isn't just the worst defender at getting shots through, he's the worst on the team, full stop. He has a booming shot, but I doubt he would add much to our PP, given those numbers. Hamilton, on the other hand, has the highest success rate getting shots through, leads the defense in points, is one of the top possession drivers on the team, has the second highest shooting % for flames defenders, and plays about 40 seconds less per game on the PP than Brodie or Giordano. If any defender should get more time, it's probably him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 35 minutes ago, ABC923 said: Here are the flames D, in order of getting shots through. Hamilton: 48.9% Bartkowski: 47.6% Brodie: 44.6% Giordano: 44.3% Kulak: 39.5% Hamonic: 39% Stone: 38.4% Stone isn't just the worst defender at getting shots through, he's the worst on the team, full stop. He has a booming shot, but I doubt he would add much to our PP, given those numbers. Hamilton, on the other hand, has the highest success rate getting shots through, leads the defense in points, is one of the top possession drivers on the team, has the second highest shooting % for flames defenders, and plays about 40 seconds less per game on the PP than Brodie or Giordano. If any defender should get more time, it's probably him. That's a flawed stat. It's overall, not PP. Suggesting that 5v5 shots are the same as PP shots is flawed. Very rarely do you have time or space to set up in the O-zone the way you can on a PP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 Personally, I believe we run a high risk PP. So often I see one dman at the middle of the blueline and the box down lower. Personally, again, 4 forwards on the PP is a bad idea, imho. Gio-Brodie should be the 1st PP D. It doesn't seem like rocket science to me, but here we are. Why put Brouwer out? Heck, even Lomberg can disturb the front of their net better, and that's all we want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted February 1, 2018 Report Share Posted February 1, 2018 15 minutes ago, conundrumed said: Personally, I believe we run a high risk PP. So often I see one dman at the middle of the blueline and the box down lower. Personally, again, 4 forwards on the PP is a bad idea, imho. Gio-Brodie should be the 1st PP D. It doesn't seem like rocket science to me, but here we are. Why put Brouwer out? Heck, even Lomberg can disturb the front of their net better, and that's all we want. I'm fine with the 3F 2D units, assuming that one of them can get a shot through. Maybe it's just Gio in the center that creates the problem. If we are running 4F 1D, then Hammy is a better choice. But that 2nd guy that fills in at the point has to be someone other than Johnny. He gets bowled over under pressure. I would rather see JH on the right half-board. He's much more deadly there because he has a bigger target to shoot to. That puts Monahan in the slot and Tkachuk in the crease, lol. The extra forward is between the half-board and the blueline. The 2nd unit could just be the traditional one with Bennett-Backlund-RW and the two best D-men at getting a shot through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.