Glen Gulutzan-16th Flames Coach

[CheersMan]

4 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Just for one game I wish we could see a PP not using Brouwer and using Ferly instead.  The guy has some pretty slick mitts.  But what sense would it make to play a guy that can separate a defender from the puck in the O-zone.  Or deflect a puck.  Or be the first guy in the corner on a dump and chase.  Or stick up for a player being roughed up.

Ferland is underrated because he leaves you wanting more.  He gets one goal and almost gets a 2nd.  Next game he may be invisible.  I'm not sure what the cause is.       

We know Ferland can do it all, we've seen it.  It's no fluke.  The coaching staff needs to figure out how to exploit it.  Leaving the kid on the top line would be a good start.

[MAC331]

11 hours ago, stubblejumper1 said:

 

 

I would argue that it is no longer feasible to throw out a guy on the powerplay who is supposed to do nothing more than screen the goalie.  Yes, you need a player in front of the net causing traffic but he needs to be able to tip shots, retrieve pucks and knock in rebounds.  

 

Brouwer, with zero goals in eleven games, is obviously out of his element on the PP.  But, who is a better option?  

 

Tkachuk is a left hand shot, Backlund is a left hand shot, Frolik is a left hand shot, Ferland is a left hand shot and is “filler,”  Bennett is a left hand shot and has zero points in eleven games,  Jankowski is a left hand shot and has zero points, Stajan is a left hand shot and has has zero points and Glass is a left hand shot with zero points

 

Versteeg is not built to stand in front of the net, Lazar has zero goals and F Hamilton has zero goals. 

 

That leaves Jagr.  I hope he can step in soon and excel on the PP.  Even if he does, this team still has a gaping hole on RW and Gulutzan cannot be blamed for that. 

 

 

Brouwer actually scores most of his goals cleaning up the rebounds close in, what did he have last season 12 goals. The team as a whole isn't getting it done so is it really fair to single out the use of Brouwer on the PP. I find myself more upset with Gaudreau, Brodie and Versteeg screwing up the efforts of the PP or Giordano shooting into someone's legs. Let's hope they collectively improve with some good results GOALS.

[MAC331]

10 hours ago, CheersMan said:

I think your "We Group" lost a member or two tonight.  In fact, it may not even be a group at all.

So from this small sample of last night's game are you saying he should have permanent residency at top line RW ? or have you thought this all along ?

[MAC331]

10 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Why is the coaching thing still a discussion? The flames were a top team after a horrendous start last season, and its honestly a good thing most fans arent the gm. The flames have shown many good signs to start this season, and I would say the coaching has been reasonable, I see the flames turning a corner, looked pretty good tonight consistently albeit against a tired washington team. 

Some will always love the Blame Game

[redfire11]

11 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Why is the coaching thing still a discussion? The flames were a top team after a horrendous start last season, and its honestly a good thing most fans arent the gm. The flames have shown many good signs to start this season, and I would say the coaching has been reasonable, I see the flames turning a corner, looked pretty good tonight consistently albeit against a tired washington team. 

I saw GG match lines better in the WSH game and that was good.

But he is still the only coach in the league that uses a 4th line under achiever forward on the #1 PP.

[CheersMan]

3 hours ago, MAC331 said:

So from this small sample of last night's game are you saying he should have permanent residency at top line RW ? or have you thought this all along ?

The sample goes well beyond just last night, it includes last season as well.  I think Ferland is a great fit for JG and SM.  He brings size, speed, hands and physicality, he can also wire a puck as good as anyone.  His stamina and endurance to play top line minutes appears to be there as well.  This trio should only improve with each outing.  Some nights they are going to meet their match, but these three are still on the upswing leading to their prime and I like the way they compliment each other.

[MAC331]

8 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

The sample goes well beyond just last night, it includes last season as well.  I think Ferland is a great fit for JG and SM.  He brings size, speed, hands and physicality, he can also wire a puck as good as anyone.  His stamina and endurance to play top line minutes appears to be there as well.  This trio should only improve with each outing.  Some nights they are going to meet their match, but these three are still on the upswing leading to their prime and I like the way they compliment each other.

Let's see if GG thinks the same way but I think we will see Jagr there as well. He could utilize Jagr there and with Bennett and Jankowski which I think is best.

[redfire11]

25 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

The sample goes well beyond just last night, it includes last season as well.  I think Ferland is a great fit for JG and SM.  He brings size, speed, hands and physicality, he can also wire a puck as good as anyone.  His stamina and endurance to play top line minutes appears to be there as well.  This trio should only improve with each outing.  Some nights they are going to meet their match, but these three are still on the upswing leading to their prime and I like the way they compliment each other.

I think Ferland was the best player on the ice last night. His fore checking was exactly what the 1st line needed (the whole team needs to do). TD said it best; " Ferland is underrated because he leaves you wanting more.  He gets one goal and almost gets a 2nd.  Next game he may be invisible.  I'm not sure what the cause is." It is frustrating at times but man if he can string a few games together like he played against WSH he could solidify himself on the first line. 

On a side note: I was watching the game streamed with WSH announcers and it was funny when the WSH player slammed JG down on the ice one said "oh here comes Ferland he won't be doing that to JG again".  That is another reason he needs to be on the first line. 

[cross16]

I get why people want Ferland to succeed I really do. I"m one of those people. The story, the skill set, the upside, the fact he is signed cheap....

 

But I think if you are being honest, the reality is he really hasn't' looked very good on the top line. Can he at times? sure. Does he most of the time, not in my opinion. Most of the game this season he's been holding that top line back and pucks have just been dying on his stick. Really hard for a coach to keep putting him out there once he got a better option in Jagr, who immediately made a huge improvement to that line. 

 

For me, Ferland has all the skills you want and as i've said in the past I really think he can be as good as he wants to be. I think the problem is, and i'm skeptial it will ever happen, I don't think HE realizes how good he can be. In the grand scheme of things, the flames need a better option for the first line. 

[MAC331]

16 hours ago, cross16 said:

I get why people want Ferland to succeed I really do. I"m one of those people. The story, the skill set, the upside, the fact he is signed cheap....

 

But I think if you are being honest, the reality is he really hasn't' looked very good on the top line. Can he at times? sure. Does he most of the time, not in my opinion. Most of the game this season he's been holding that top line back and pucks have just been dying on his stick. Really hard for a coach to keep putting him out there once he got a better option in Jagr, who immediately made a huge improvement to that line. 

 

For me, Ferland has all the skills you want and as i've said in the past I really think he can be as good as he wants to be. I think the problem is, and i'm skeptial it will ever happen, I don't think HE realizes how good he can be. In the grand scheme of things, the flames need a better option for the first line. 

I agree but he may also be the better option there if Jagr can't take the pace this season. We need to milk Jagr for all he is worth and that may be in bringing Jankowski and Bennett along. Let Ferland experience all that he can on that line with those guys. Like you I don't think he is the end answer but for now let him have the experience.

[cross16]

5 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I agree but he may also be the better option there if Jagr can't take the pace this season. We need to milk Jagr for all he is worth and that may be I bringing Jankowski and Bennett along. Let Ferland experience all that he can on that line with those guys. Like you I don't think he is the end answer but for now let him have the experience.

 

I agree to a point, but the problem is it's feast or famine. He's either great or not very good so it makes it tough on Gulutzan, or any coach, to just leave him up through thick and thine because if when he's off he can't help the line and you've got to put someone up there. 

I like Jagr with Bennet and Jankowski when he's back but with the idea it's a short leash for ferland and Jagr is there 

[MAC331]

20 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I agree to a point, but the problem is it's feast or famine. He's either great or not very good so it makes it tough on Gulutzan, or any coach, to just leave him up through thick and thine because if when he's off he can't help the line and you've got to put someone up there. 

I like Jagr with Bennet and Jankowski when he's back but with the idea it's a short leash for ferland and Jagr is there 

GG has that option which is always good. Personally I would love to free up Tkachuk for the top line RW and have Ferland do his thing with Backlund and Frolik.

I think it's time and a line of Gaudreau, Monahan and Tkachuk could thrive.

[robrob74]

24 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

GG has that option which is always good. Personally I would love to free up Tkachuk for the top line RW and have Ferland do his thing with Backlund and Frolik.

I think it's time and a line of Gaudreau, Monahan and Tkachuk could thrive.

 

 

I wonder if Tkachuk could thrive with Bennett and Jankowski? A worry could be too many penalties.

[CheersMan]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

I get why people want Ferland to succeed I really do. I"m one of those people. The story, the skill set, the upside, the fact he is signed cheap....

 

But I think if you are being honest, the reality is he really hasn't' looked very good on the top line. Can he at times? sure. Does he most of the time, not in my opinion. Most of the game this season he's been holding that top line back and pucks have just been dying on his stick. Really hard for a coach to keep putting him out there once he got a better option in Jagr, who immediately made a huge improvement to that line. 

 

For me, Ferland has all the skills you want and as i've said in the past I really think he can be as good as he wants to be. I think the problem is, and i'm skeptial it will ever happen, I don't think HE realizes how good he can be. In the grand scheme of things, the flames need a better option for the first line. 

For me, it’s not about the story or how much he makes, it’s about the skill set and the upside.  We have all seen it, it’s there, the question is how do you harness it from game to game?  I’m not taking a shot at GG, but the last coach knew how to do it.  He knew what buttons to push to get the best out of players.  Players cashed in under the former because he was tough and pushed you to be your best.  I’m not sure what GG does to motivate, other than shuffle lines, time will tell.  The carrot is there, Ferland has < 2 years to take advantage of the situation.  Under the former coach, I see Ferland cashing in HUGE, under GG, time will tell. 

[CheersMan]

5 hours ago, redfire11 said:

I think Ferland was the best player on the ice last night. His fore checking was exactly what the 1st line needed (the whole team needs to do). TD said it best; " Ferland is underrated because he leaves you wanting more.  He gets one goal and almost gets a 2nd.  Next game he may be invisible.  I'm not sure what the cause is." It is frustrating at times but man if he can string a few games together like he played against WSH he could solidify himself on the first line. 

On a side note: I was watching the game streamed with WSH announcers and it was funny when the WSH player slammed JG down on the ice one said "oh here comes Ferland he won't be doing that to JG again".  That is another reason he needs to be on the first line. 

 

We need someone on that line that will provide a little push back.  Ferly has it and will administer it, if required.  We don't want the opposition forearming little Johnny to the ice, just because they can.  

[cross16]

22 minutes ago, CheersMan said:

For me, it’s not about the story or how much he makes, it’s about the skill set and the upside.  We have all seen it, it’s there, the question is how do you harness it from game to game?  I’m not taking a shot at GG, but the last coach knew how to do it.  He knew what buttons to push to get the best out of players.  Players cashed in under the former because he was tough and pushed you to be your best.  I’m not sure what GG does to motivate, other than shuffle lines, time will tell.  The carrot is there, Ferland has < 2 years to take advantage of the situation.  Under the former coach, I see Ferland cashing in HUGE, under GG, time will tell. 

 

Yet Ferland has been significantly better under Gulutzan he was under Hartley.  Hartley saved Ferlands career so that's not a shot kys just reality. 

I personally think we've seen the most Ferland has to offer but perhaps I'll be proven wrong. I just don't see the inconsistencies being ironed out. 

[travel_dude]

27 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Yet Ferland has been significantly better under Gulutzan he was under Hartley.  Hartley saved Ferlands career so that's not a shot kys just reality. 

I personally think we've seen the most Ferland has to offer but perhaps I'll be proven wrong. I just don't see the inconsistencies being ironed out. 

 

Hartley introduced Ferkland to the Nucks, but he didn't respond the next year.  I felt he only wanted Ferland to hit and fight.  The other players that fared well that year did so because there was less accountability for mistakes.  Crash the car, overrev the engine, just don't bring it back in showroom condition.  That was BH's line, in fact he said almost exactly that.   

 

Ferland is an interesting case.  Too good to be a goon, but not consistent enough to be a top 6 player.  I feel sometimes that Ferland is looking for the line too often, instead of doing what Tkachuk does; pushing the envelope.  He doesn't make dirty hits at all.  He reviews his options before making a hit.  He's a smart player.  I just don;t think he is confident enough in himself.  Maybe it stems a bit from his previous lifestyle. 

 

That's a long way of saying that I think we have seen what he can do, and it's up to the coach to get him to play that way every night.  Rewarding him with the odd PP minute and allowing him to keep the top 3 role may be the best ways to do it.        

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Hartley introduced Ferkland to the Nucks, but he didn't respond the next year.  I felt he only wanted Ferland to hit and fight.  The other players that fared well that year did so because there was less accountability for mistakes.  Crash the car, overrev the engine, just don't bring it back in showroom condition.  That was BH's line, in fact he said almost exactly that.   

 

Ferland is an interesting case.  Too good to be a goon, but not consistent enough to be a top 6 player.  I feel sometimes that Ferland is looking for the line too often, instead of doing what Tkachuk does; pushing the envelope.  He doesn't make dirty hits at all.  He reviews his options before making a hit.  He's a smart player.  I just don;t think he is confident enough in himself.  Maybe it stems a bit from his previous lifestyle. 

 

That's a long way of saying that I think we have seen what he can do, and it's up to the coach to get him to play that way every night.  Rewarding him with the odd PP minute and allowing him to keep the top 3 role may be the best ways to do it.        

This is why I think he would do well playing with Backlund and Frolik two mature experienced players. He is a good checking forward skates well and can be an opportunist with the puck.

[conundrumed]

On 10/30/2017 at 0:00 AM, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Why is the coaching thing still a discussion? The flames were a top team after a horrendous start last season, and its honestly a good thing most fans arent the gm. The flames have shown many good signs to start this season, and I would say the coaching has been reasonable, I see the flames turning a corner, looked pretty good tonight consistently albeit against a tired washington team. 

It will always be a discussion when the team is failing, which I believe they are, but the disclaimer is it's just my opinion, like everyone, based on what I'm seeing and then I see plenty of others with the same sentiment.

We are digging a pretty deep hole right now with lack of scoring and it can't continue.

As much as GG is a "play within the system" coach, it can't be all that, all the time.

We're seeing players rewarded and others penalized for staying within the plan or not.

There has to be a balance where you take the chains off and let your players play.

"No identity" is getting thrown around a lot and I'd agree.

It's not that we don't have the players to forge it, we're just kinda stuck.

As I've gone back and looked at the last few games, we're flat footed too often staying in our rectangles. So many teams are getting away from highly-structured into tempo-is-everything but we look stuck in structure. We're afraid to make a mistake within the structure.

Is every shift, "gawd, I hope I don't screw up"?

Imho, our guys just don't look loose out there. I think that's why very few can finish, we just look uptight and rigid a lot.

There are only 3 players I see that get passes on my little theory, 2 because I saw enough in jr:

Monahan - he's an elite snipe from the slot, get him the puck there, he's going to score a lot

Tkachuk - you have to be a really smart player to be borderline uncoachable, always felt this way about him. It's a good thing! He plays how he sees fit, and he makes things happen, so you can't really say much to him.

Frolik - always underrated for lack of production, but one of the best 2 way pressure the puck players around. Always has been.

 

So if we are seeing not enough passion, no identity, lack of scoring...that is ball and chain to playing style imho, and every team reads it before they play us.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

It will always be a discussion when the team is failing, which I believe they are, but the disclaimer is it's just my opinion, like everyone, based on what I'm seeing and then I see plenty of others with the same sentiment.

We are digging a pretty deep hole right now with lack of scoring and it can't continue.

As much as GG is a "play within the system" coach, it can't be all that, all the time.

We're seeing players rewarded and others penalized for staying within the plan or not.

There has to be a balance where you take the chains off and let your players play.

"No identity" is getting thrown around a lot and I'd agree.

It's not that we don't have the players to forge it, we're just kinda stuck.

As I've gone back and looked at the last few games, we're flat footed too often staying in our rectangles. So many teams are getting away from highly-structured into tempo-is-everything but we look stuck in structure. We're afraid to make a mistake within the structure.

Is every shift, "gawd, I hope I don't screw up"?

Imho, our guys just don't look loose out there. I think that's why very few can finish, we just look uptight and rigid a lot.

There are only 3 players I see that get passes on my little theory, 2 because I saw enough in jr:

Monahan - he's an elite snipe from the slot, get him the puck there, he's going to score a lot

Tkachuk - you have to be a really smart player to be borderline uncoachable, always felt this way about him. It's a good thing! He plays how he sees fit, and he makes things happen, so you can't really say much to him.

Frolik - always underrated for lack of production, but one of the best 2 way pressure the puck players around. Always has been.

 

So if we are seeing not enough passion, no identity, lack of scoring...that is ball and chain to playing style imho, and every team reads it before they play us.

I wouldn't disagree with your take on the situation however would add this isn't abnormal for a team working out the kinks of some new players and its October. Some say GG isn't a motivator, some coaches are more teachers and fundamentalists maybe he falls into this category which leaves the motivation to others. Smith has been awesome and our D has been slow adapting to each other and sloppy (now showing improvement). On the front end we are back to the same story of no consistency from the constant shuffling of line personal. This IMO is where not just GG but the staff itself has to settle in on who will play best with who. I hear GG in an interview say he doesn't worry about the 3M line and I think to myself, what about team first. Personally I think Tkachuk is going to waste offensively on that line, sure he is learning but this team needs scoring in a big way.

All the over concern surrounding Bennett has to weigh in on the player and I am happy to see the change to wing for him (for now) change the focus to some degree and have him work with Jankowski to be successful together. October has been awkward and SPOOKY but I think we are getting where we need to go.

[cross16]

5 hours ago, conundrumed said:

 

As I've gone back and looked at the last few games, we're flat footed too often staying in our rectangles. So many teams are getting away from highly-structured into tempo-is-everything but we look stuck in structure. We're afraid to make a mistake within the structure.

 

 

I'm not sure I agree here. What top team do you know of that doesn't play within a structure and a pretty rigid structure? Pens just won 2 cups and are about as structured a team as you will see in the league. To me the teams that get away form the structure are the ones that wind up picking in the lottery, see 15-16 Calgary Flames.

Also is that a problem with the structure or is that the players lack of intensity? I tend to link players standing alot more to motivation/execution then I do an issue with the system. 

 

For me the lack of offence comes down to 3 factors and it's not coaching.

1. Flames don't have great team speed so they don't transition through the neutral zone well and thus rely more on dump ins/methodical passes to gain the zone. When they gain the zone they have to stop up because they can't drive wide so it's challenging for them to generate odd man rushes. 

2. They lack snipers or guys that can really shoot the puck. Lots of missed shots too. 

3. They do a below average job of getting to high traffic scoring areas, front of the net, slot area as most of the players on the team I would say prefer to play more of a permiter game. They lack the power forward types who like to drive the net and create opportunities and instead would prefer to keep the puck and try to set up a play. 

[The_People1]

I feel our scoring woes are the result of a bad bottom 6.  Bennett is still hands of stone right now.  Then, Versteeg - Stajan - Brouwer is never going to score.  Not even a threat.

 

We focus on first line RW but chemistry in our bottom 6 is really bad.

[JTech780]

http://www.tsn.ca/13-potential-nhl-head-coaching-candidates-1.901777

 

Here is a list of top coaching candidates, the only 1 I would consider a clear upgrade over GG is Tippett. The other name that apparently is on the hot seat I would be interested in is Alain Vigneault. I am not saying we should fire GG, just pointing out that there isn't too many "great" coaches out there. If we do replace GG, I think it needs to be a veteran coach that knows how to handle players, I think Tippet and AV are both very good coaches.

 

At the end of the day I still believe that this team has a player issue not a coaching issue. 

[travel_dude]

40 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

I feel our scoring woes are the result of a bad bottom 6.  Bennett is still hands of stone right now.  Then, Versteeg - Stajan - Brouwer is never going to score.  Not even a threat.

 

We focus on first line RW but chemistry in our bottom 6 is really bad.

 One can hope that Jagr playing with Bennett and Janko is the answer getting scoring from the bottom 6.  It's not a long-term answer, but at least it's not adding a player that brings down the other two.  

 

The bottom line is a drag.  Versteeg only scores when he plays in the top 3 or PP.  I would suggest that we make a trade to move Stajan or Brouwer.  Barring that, we start sitting players (waiver may be needed) and bring in some effective players.  Mangiapane is lighting up the AHL.  Hrivik is playing at least at the level of a very good AHL player.  We need something other than what the 4th line looks like right now.

 

Consider Mangiapane-Vesteeg-Brouwer.  Stajan and Lazar sit.  Glass and Freddie are waived.

Play whoever is playing well.  If we were able to trade Brouwer, then we could insert Lazar and actually build a functional 4th line.  

[cross16]

28 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

http://www.tsn.ca/13-potential-nhl-head-coaching-candidates-1.901777

 

Here is a list of top coaching candidates, the only 1 I would consider a clear upgrade over GG is Tippett. The other name that apparently is on the hot seat I would be interested in is Alain Vigneault. I am not saying we should fire GG, just pointing out that there isn't too many "great" coaches out there. If we do replace GG, I think it needs to be a veteran coach that knows how to handle players, I think Tippet and AV are both very good coaches.

 

At the end of the day I still believe that this team has a player issue not a coaching issue. 

 

I would even challenge Tippett being a clear upgrade. While I complete understand that his Arizona teams lacked a lot of talent they were a mess from top to bottom and literally did nothing right. I really question if Tippet's message works anymore and I'm not sure he would be an upgrade moving forward. If you want to fix scoring Tippett is the last guy you would want to bring in. I'd see it as backwards personally.

 

I still think even talking about changing coaches is insane. Gulutzan did a great job last year  and i'm really surprised people are willing to ditch him 12 games into the next season when you are seeing many other teams that thought they were contenders getting off to slow starts. Look at some of the company the Flames have in the standings and I think you see this is a league issue. I think with the changes in training camp over the last couple CBA the game has changed and really the first 15-20 games is almost an extension of the preseason. I don't quite understand why people get so paranoid about a slow start but to each his own. If this is still happening in Game 25 by all means let's talk about but I have a ton of faith that the flames are going to continue to get better but are still not a contender and no coach is going to change that contender status.