Glen Gulutzan-16th Flames Coach

[tmac70]

53 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Did you ever stop and think it is you that doesn't get what is happening on the ice ? there has been "dramatic change" on the ice and this was why management brought GG in. They want this team to play a different style, we are seeing some good stuff but also fighting through the mistakes. This has to happen and you better have the stomach for it. You have no idea how the players are relating to GG and is staff, for all you know they may love where all this change will take them. If at first you don't try the only thing you can be guaranteed of is nothing will happen. Mistakes are going to happen, so long as they learn from them they will be in good shape.

What I see is an uninspired team due to over coaching and managing. People who inspire others can get average people to do extraordinary things.  In 2004 average group inspired to do great things. Hartley inspired this club when we went to the play offs, Pen's last year. People will go through a wall if the are inspired by the message they hear. Can you honestly say this is an inspired group? Frankly, 10 minutes is not a change. One bad break and they fold, and you can see they are just waiting for it to happen.

[MAC331]

19 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

What I see is an uninspired team due to over coaching and managing. People who inspire others can get average people to do extraordinary things.  In 2004 average group inspired to do great things. Hartley inspired this club when we went to the play offs, Pen's last year. People will go through a wall if the are inspired by the message they hear. Can you honestly say this is an inspired group? Frankly, 10 minutes is not a change. One bad break and they fold, and you can see they are just waiting for it to happen.

Sorry but that is not what I see at all. I see a team learning on the ice and making a few bad mistakes that are costing them some games. Nobody likes to loses but saying they fold is hardly the truth of the matter especially if you are referring to the add on goals in the last few minutes of the games. Obviously you are a fan that winning every games is all you want to see, you have no patience for the time it takes to iron out the wrinkles of a new system. All this leads to is complaining and the blame game which isn't any kind of answer. People see what they want to see.

[travel_dude]

26 minutes ago, tmac70 said:

What I see is an uninspired team due to over coaching and managing. People who inspire others can get average people to do extraordinary things.  In 2004 average group inspired to do great things. Hartley inspired this club when we went to the play offs, Pen's last year. People will go through a wall if the are inspired by the message they hear. Can you honestly say this is an inspired group? Frankly, 10 minutes is not a change. One bad break and they fold, and you can see they are just waiting for it to happen.

 

What I am trying to figure out is what the breakout is supposed to look like.  I heard a lot about 5 man units skating up the ice with the puck.  Controlled entries.  Battling hard to get the puck.  Retrieving the puck after a faceoff loss.  That's what I heard.  What I see regularly is a much different thing.  A breakout that has the two D within 20 feet of each other and the next player about 50 feet away.  Stretch passes.  Long passes up the boards to the opposing blueline.  Long cross-ice passes.  Attempted carry-ins or dump and chase.  This doesn't change much in-game, and I don't see a lot of it at the start of games.  Is that coaching?  It has to be.  Otherwise, you would see a change at some point.

 

 

[JTech780]

12 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

So... GG.

 

The collective wisdom on here is admirable:  Give the coach time for his system to work.

 

And, we will do just that.

 

But a quick dose of reality:  Teams typically play their best hockey in the first 10-20 games for a New Coach.  Call it adrenaline.  And, we Are seeing that New Coach effort, just not New Coach results.

 

After that point, performance typically drops off.

 

Actually the opposite is true, you might want to read this article.

 

http://www.flamesfrom80feet.ca/2016/10/recurring-issue-slow-starts-for-new-nhl.html?m=1

[MAC331]

12 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

What I am trying to figure out is what the breakout is supposed to look like.  I heard a lot about 5 man units skating up the ice with the puck.  Controlled entries.  Battling hard to get the puck.  Retrieving the puck after a faceoff loss.  That's what I heard.  What I see regularly is a much different thing.  A breakout that has the two D within 20 feet of each other and the next player about 50 feet away.  Stretch passes.  Long passes up the boards to the opposing blueline.  Long cross-ice passes.  Attempted carry-ins or dump and chase.  This doesn't change much in-game, and I don't see a lot of it at the start of games.  Is that coaching?  It has to be.  Otherwise, you would see a change at some point.

 

 

Opposing teams are bunching up the middle zone and don't really fear having us in their zone because we don't compete hard enough for pucks. I think last game was the best I have seen from our defense collectively, especially Brodie and Kulak. GG needs to let these pairings play together more without a bunch of changes, it is the only way to improve. Our forecheck has to vastly improve if we are forced into a dump and chase game by the opposition. We need to start hitting and making life miserable for the opposition's defense. Maybe what we seen out of Ferland and Chiasson last game and the addition of Hathaway we will see more aggressive play.

[tmac70]

3 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Sorry but that is not what I see at all. I see a team learning on the ice and making a few bad mistakes that are costing them some games. Nobody likes to loses but saying they fold is hardly the truth of the matter especially if you are referring to the add on goals in the last few minutes of the games. Obviously you are a fan that winning every games is all you want to see, you have no patience for the time it takes to iron out the wrinkles of a new system. All this leads to is complaining and the blame game which isn't any kind of answer. People see what they want to see.

Which is fine, we see things differently. If winning isn't the main purpose why keep score. Your good with losing as long as you see the system, I believe wins enhance belief among your players that the system works. If your rewarded for your efforts you will progress a hell of a lot faster than your not.

[DirtyDeeds]

12 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

So... GG.

 

The collective wisdom on here is admirable:  Give the coach time for his system to work.

 

And, we will do just that.

 

But a quick dose of reality:  Teams typically play their best hockey in the first 10-20 games for a New Coach.  Call it adrenaline.  And, we Are seeing that New Coach effort, just not New Coach results.

 

After that point, performance typically drops off.

 

That's right... there is a very real possibility that things could get worse.   Not many teams fire their Coach of the Year that fast.  Let me say....it sure looks, now, like we fired a Coach of the Year.

Hush.. The pundits around here don't want to hear that stuff.  it would be a slap in the face to everything they have believed in and told us .

[AlbertaBoy12]

13 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

So... GG.

 

The collective wisdom on here is admirable:  Give the coach time for his system to work.

 

And, we will do just that.

 

But a quick dose of reality:  Teams typically play their best hockey in the first 10-20 games for a New Coach.  Call it adrenaline.  And, we Are seeing that New Coach effort, just not New Coach results.

 

After that point, performance typically drops off.

 

That's right... there is a very real possibility that things could get worse.   Not many teams fire their Coach of the Year that fast.  Let me say....it sure looks, now, like we fired a Coach of the Year.

BTW historically teams dont necessarily play their best under a new coach, sometimes they play their worst under a new coach. Look at the history before you start spouting things off as facts.

 

There is plenty of examples of teams not playing well under new coaches, and then turning it around a the 20 game mark ish, ie pittsburgh last season when they won the cup.  Im not saying the flames will do that, but geez give the guys sometime.

 

Also people need to get off this idea that BH was an amazing coach, this team saw no improvement under him, rode ridiculous luck to a playoff spot and then barely won against a crappy canuck team in the first round. It was a cinderella story.

[CheersMan]

56 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Sorry but that is not what I see at all. I see a team learning on the ice and making a few bad mistakes that are costing them some games. Nobody likes to loses but saying they fold is hardly the truth of the matter especially if you are referring to the add on goals in the last few minutes of the games. Obviously you are a fan that winning every games is all you want to see, you have no patience for the time it takes to iron out the wrinkles of a new system. All this leads to is complaining and the blame game which isn't any kind of answer. People see what they want to see.

 

The NHL is the winning league, players are paid handsomely and fans pay big $’s to see their team win………every night.  The learning is done in lesser leagues.  When you get to the NHL you should know how to attack and defend.  From year to year you may see 50% player turnover on this team.  How many games to start each season are you willing to write-off to learning before your season is consider a failure?  20% of the season is now gone and what most fans see is a team that is LAST in most categories including wins (5), goal differential (-17), PP (8.0%), PK (72.1%).  The categories we are FIRST in is nothing to be proud of including Goals Against (55) and Minor Penalties (74).  Those are SIX categories that we are < dismal at.  What is it that you see that keeps you optimistic?     

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

Actually the opposite is true, you might want to read this article.

 

http://www.flamesfrom80feet.ca/2016/10/recurring-issue-slow-starts-for-new-nhl.html?m=1

 

Just my own opinion, but I would personally be embarrased to link to that site.  Seriously no offense...but it's bad.

 

On a more unbiased note, they excluded new coaches on teams that dropped in the standings.   The Wild, the Blue Jackets, etc...nowhere to be found in that list.

 

Had they not done that, I would have to point out that they Cherry-picked different numbers of games for each coach to find the optimal point for their arguement...and a lot of times, it Still didn't really make sense  (Edmonton, Carolina, Toronto, Nashville, Winnipeg, Vancouver, ) etc.

 

My favourite part of the whole thing is how they reached into the 2013-14 season for the ONLY coach out of NINE coaching changes that year that supported their arguement:  Lindy Ruff.   LOL, Classic

 

Anyway...yeah no.  See you at the 20-game mark, I guess.....I've got no problem with that.

[DirtyDeeds]

40 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Just my own opinion, but I would personally be embarrased to link to that site.  Seriously no offense...but it's bad.

 

On a more unbiased note, they excluded new coaches on teams that dropped in the standings.   The Wild, the Blue Jackets, etc...nowhere to be found in that list.

 

Had they not done that, I would have to point out that they Cherry-picked different numbers of games for each coach to find the optimal point for their arguement...and a lot of times, it Still didn't really make sense  (Edmonton, Carolina, Toronto, Nashville, Winnipeg, Vancouver, ) etc.

 

My favourite part of the whole thing is how they reached into the 2013-14 season for the ONLY coach out of NINE coaching changes that year that supported their arguement:  Lindy Ruff.   LOL, Classic

 

Anyway...yeah no.  See you at the 20-game mark, I guess.....I've got no problem with that.

I don't see mention of Dallas Eakins and his 33-63-0-14 record. New coach, young team. never did take off....

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, tmac70 said:

Which is fine, we see things differently. If winning isn't the main purpose why keep score. Your good with losing as long as you see the system, I believe wins enhance belief among your players that the system works. If your rewarded for your efforts you will progress a hell of a lot faster than your not.

Sorry tmac, I have been on lots of teams and had to learn a number of systems, you either learn them and execute them or you don't play is my experience. This team is working things through unfortunately you don't have the patience for the positive results and want them now. It doesn't always or rarely happen like that. Their rewards will come as they perfect and execute whatever systems better than they are now. Everyone likes winning and this team will gradually gain wins when they execute better hockey.

[jjgallow]

29 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Sorry tmac, I have been on lots of teams and had to learn a number of systems, you either learn them and execute them or you don't play is my experience. This team is working things through unfortunately you don't have the patience for the positive results and want them now. It doesn't always or rarely happen like that. Their rewards will come as they perfect and execute whatever systems better than they are now. Everyone likes winning and this team will gradually gain wins when they execute better hockey.

 

Ok let's get one thing clear, you have that completely backwards (patience).

 

When Tmac, or myself, or DD dare call things like they are, we're not doing it because we don't have patience.   We're doing it because we are observing reality and we have the Patience to realize that, in life, and sports, the best long term approach is to be realistic.   GG might get fired within a year, and Great, fantastic things could come of that.   The whole team, for that matter, could re-enter a rebuild.   And Great, Amazing, Incredible things could come of that:

http://www.tsn.ca/mckenzie-s-pre-season-ranking-the-nolan-patrick-draft-1.567410

 

Some of us are looking 2, 3 seasons out, or even more.  That is why we are able to objectively observe where things are at without getting our jock straps in a bunch.  Even if GG Does turn things around, the chance of him staying that long are Not fantastic when you look at the Flame's and the NHL's coach firing frequencies.

 

Many of us have Loads, and Loads, and Loads, and Loads of patience.  Which is why we can calmly and matter-of-factly point out the current downward spiral as exactly what it is.   Because we've seen Many of them in the past, will likely see many more in the future, and some of us have even gone through some cup-winning cycles, which means that we know that the downward spirals are Also Part of the Cup Winning process.

 

But one thing anyone who has watched the NHL for any length of time knows:

 

Coaches don't last.

 

they....

 

Don't.

 

You can even....per se...win Coach of the Year, and get fired the next year.

 

To think that this GG guy, who comes from out of nowhere with no mentionable track record, and proceeds to lead the Flames into a downward spiral, will be an exception to that rule, is Not realistic, sorry.   And yes, that Might just mean the Season is Shot.  It could (not saying it definitely will).   But denying that possibility doesn't make you look patient.  At all.

[MAC331]

33 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Ok let's get one thing clear, you have that completely backwards (patience).

 

When Tmac, or myself, or DD dare call things like they are, we're not doing it because we don't have patience.   We're doing it because we are observing reality and we have the Patience to realize that, in life, and sports, the best long term approach is to be realistic.   GG might get fired within a year, and Great, fantastic things could come of that.   The whole team, for that matter, could re-enter a rebuild.   And Great, Amazing, Incredible things could come of that:

http://www.tsn.ca/mckenzie-s-pre-season-ranking-the-nolan-patrick-draft-1.567410

 

Some of us are looking 2, 3 seasons out, or even more.  That is why we are able to objectively observe where things are at without getting our jock straps in a bunch.  Even if GG Does turn things around, the chance of him staying that long are Not fantastic when you look at the Flame's and the NHL's coach firing frequencies.

 

Many of us have Loads, and Loads, and Loads, and Loads of patience.  Which is why we can calmly and matter-of-factly point out the current downward spiral as exactly what it is.   Because we've seen Many of them in the past, will likely see many more in the future, and some of us have even gone through some cup-winning cycles, which means that we know that the downward spirals are Also Part of the Cup Winning process.

 

But one thing anyone who has watched the NHL for any length of time knows:

 

Coaches don't last.

 

they....

 

Don't.

 

You can even....per se...win Coach of the Year, and get fired the next year.

 

To think that this GG guy, who comes from out of nowhere with no mentionable track record, and proceeds to lead the Flames into a downward spiral, will be an exception to that rule, is Not realistic, sorry.   And yes, that Might just mean the Season is Shot.  It could (not saying it definitely will).   But denying that possibility doesn't make you look patient.  At all.

I see, you are one of those realty as you see it people, good for you. People see and hear what they want to and some live delusional lives. I don't see the downward spiral you apparently see, I see a team working through what they need to in order to become better. There are no short cuts and you have to do it in front of everyone. You can have your view of the world, I don't share much of anything you do put on here but that's OK. Carry on.

[jjgallow]

15 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I see, you are one of those realty as you see it people, good for you. People see and hear what they want to and some live delusional lives. I don't see the downward spiral you apparently see, I see a team working through what they need to in order to become better. There are no short cuts and you have to do it in front of everyone. You can have your view of the world, I don't share much of anything you do put on here but that's OK. Carry on.

 

ok....do you think you might be embellishing the subjectiveness just a little?   We're not evaluating a Pollock painting here.

 

Flames in the NHL Standings

2014/15 season:   16th in the NHL

2015/16 season:   26th in the NHL   *We fire the coach and get new goalies

2016/17 season:   28th in the NHL    <---  This.  Us.  Now.

 

If we are not in a downward spiral, when does the downward spiral occur?   29th in the league?  30th?  Maybe 31st next year if there's an expansion??  I realize that there are many ways of looking at things.  Yes, those who believe we "have nowhere to go but up", Certainly have math on their side here.

 

No, those who were expecting us to be "coming out of the rebuild"...probably can't be too happy that we're Below teams going into rebuilds.  I suppose we can all interpret it differently.   the cause, the cure, etc.....but... when we're like "that's bad"....and people are like..."oh, that's subjective"...

 

Like... really?

 

[AlbertaBoy12]

15 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

ok....do you think you might be embellishing the subjectiveness just a little?   We're not evaluating a Pollock painting here.

 

Flames in the NHL Standings

2014/15 season:   16th in the NHL

2015/16 season:   26th in the NHL   *We fire the coach and get new goalies

2016/17 season:   28th in the NHL    <---  This.  Us.  Now.

 

If we are not in a downward spiral, when does the downward spiral occur?   29th in the league?  30th?  Maybe 31st next year if there's an expansion??  I realize that there are many ways of looking at things.  Yes, those who believe we "have nowhere to go but up", Certainly have math on their side here.

 

No, those who were expecting us to be "coming out of the rebuild"...probably can't be too happy that we're Below teams going into rebuilds.  I suppose we can all interpret it differently.   the cause, the cure, etc.....but... when we're like "that's bad"....and people are like..."oh, that's subjective"...

 

Like... really?

 

Do you really believe crap you spew out? or do you just like being a devils advocate? You complain about the "downward spiral of this team", you look at an article and say its not true because they only picked one coach out of a group for a season. You are doing the exact opposite by saying that because 8 coaches had success that season, it must be an issue with one guy, sometimes things dont work right away for whatever reason.

 

It is subjective to say we are "that bad" as you put it, when you look at the team and realize that we have played the best 5 on 5 hockey we have played since before BH, and it could be argued the only reason we are losing hockey games right now is because of special teams, maybe you should look at that.

[conundrumed]

8 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Had a good friday night I see....

 

Hope you can sleep it off, make sure to drink lots of water

I actually meant that to poke fun, not to be an arse, it didn't quite work out for me!!

[jjgallow]

9 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I actually meant that to poke fun, not to be an arse, it didn't quite work out for me!!

 

So did I!  I guess it didn't work out well for me either lol... sorry

[jjgallow]

49 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Do you really believe crap you spew out? or do you just like being a devils advocate? You complain about the "downward spiral of this team", you look at an article and say its not true because they only picked one coach out of a group for a season. You are doing the exact opposite by saying that because 8 coaches had success that season, it must be an issue with one guy, sometimes things dont work right away for whatever reason.

 

It is subjective to say we are "that bad" as you put it, when you look at the team and realize that we have played the best 5 on 5 hockey we have played since before BH, and it could be argued the only reason we are losing hockey games right now is because of special teams, maybe you should look at that.

 

Irreconcilable differences, you and I.   At least there's no custody battle.

[tmac70]

1 hour ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Do you really believe crap you spew out? or do you just like being a devils advocate? You complain about the "downward spiral of this team", you look at an article and say its not true because they only picked one coach out of a group for a season. You are doing the exact opposite by saying that because 8 coaches had success that season, it must be an issue with one guy, sometimes things dont work right away for whatever reason.

 

It is subjective to say we are "that bad" as you put it, when you look at the team and realize that we have played the best 5 on 5 hockey we have played since before BH, and it could be argued the only reason we are losing hockey games right now is because of special teams, maybe you should look at that.

Perception Vs Reality (28th in the league). 

[tmac70]

3 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Sorry tmac, I have been on lots of teams and had to learn a number of systems, you either learn them and execute them or you don't play is my experience. This team is working things through unfortunately you don't have the patience for the positive results and want them now. It doesn't always or rarely happen like that. Their rewards will come as they perfect and execute whatever systems better than they are now. Everyone likes winning and this team will gradually gain wins when they execute better hockey.

As have I as well as coached/taught and train High level athletes.  From what I have watched 2/3 rd's of this club would be riding the pine cause nobody is executing.  Right there is the point I was making earlier (bolded). Nobody likes to be managed they need to be lead and inspired to achieve higher levels.  Play my way or sit worked in the 70 - 80's .....coach and teach in a dictatorship in today's society you go no where quick.

[conundrumed]

5 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Also people need to get off this idea that BH was an amazing coach, this team saw no improvement under him, rode ridiculous luck to a playoff spot and then barely won against a crappy canuck team in the first round. It was a cinderella story.

There is no indication that Gulutzan is an amazing coach either. We're awfully close to the gutter.

2 different philosophies, one has had success, one has yet to have any.

No point in harping about BH when GG has yet to show anything which resembles success.

Total lack of emotion on display is concerning.

[CBTC-FLAMES-EDITION]

While I hate the lack of emotion GG shows during every interview, we do live in a very PC world. Some of the stories I've heard makes it seem like he can be intense when he needs to be with his players. I'm not sure why so often this season we have seemed to play with little emotion and urgency. A great coach can inspire but players need internal motivation too. To be honest I didn't like when Gaudreau said during the 2nd intermission last game that his two goals probably doesn't happen without Ferlands huge check on Seguin and subsequent fight and the intensity that brought. I get things like that can inspire a team and I love when they happen but adults playing a game for a living making millions should be inspiration enough. With the exception of a couple of poor penalties and a couple of poor plays by Bennett, I thought we were a lot more competitive last game then our first of the season. I do see improvements, just not enough to win regularly in this league.  

[cross16]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

There is no indication that Gulutzan is an amazing coach either. We're awfully close to the gutter.

2 different philosophies, one has had success, one has yet to have any.

No point in harping about BH when GG has yet to show anything which resembles success.

Total lack of emotion on display is concerning.

 

 

Succes? Where the flames pick last year? Where did they pick in 3 of his 4 season?

 

for sure gulutzan has yet to show he is an amazing coach and for sure it remains to be seen if treliving made the right call hiring him but I do agree we need to get past this idea that Hartley was a good coach. 

[robrob74]

1 minute ago, cross16 said:

 

 

Succes? Where the flames pick last year? Where did pick in 3 of his 4 season?

 

for sure gulutzan has yet to show he is an amazing coach and for sure it remains to be seen if treliving made the right call hiring him but I do agre we need to get past this idea that Hartley was a good coach. 

 

In a big rebuild though. I get the dislike for Hartley, but the fact is he was in a rebuild and coached a team that was heading into a rebuild his first (shortened) season here. I am not saying Hartley is a great coach, but you can't just say he has a horrible record when it was all in a rebuild. I get stats don't care, but that is a huge reason for the lack of success. And, he ended up coaching a team that was picked to be last place and made it to the 2nd round against all odds. 

 

His biggest problem was he didn't coach the 2015/16 team the same way he coached the 2014/15 one. He got a lot out of the players in year one of the rebuild, but, they were in year one of a rebuild. 

 

GG has a way better crop to work with in terms of depth and isn't getting any better results. A lot on here picked us to make the playoffs this year. I thought we were about a year away still. It could even be two by the looks of it, if they don't develop.