Glen Gulutzan-16th Flames Coach

[TheFan99]

10 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

Urgency will come after the system is second nature. At least that is the hope. Going through the motions is part of learning. Hopefully it starts to stick and the core starts scoring.

BT wanted his own guy. When BT was hired by Burke he told BT he liked the way the team played and the coach would be staying. BT agreed because he wanted his shot as a GM. BH was a good teacher he helped develop Backs, Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennet. BH made a decision on defense responsibilities and it didn't work out. What's wrong with one bad season (I know it sucks) and come back with a fresh approach defensively? I know BH is gone and it doesn't matter now but the players would be on all the same page right now  if the Flames would just be constant. 2-3 years and your fired won't help any body. Young teams need a sound structure and continuity to flourish. If they don't have that......(Edmonton). Detroit is talked about a modelled franchise because same GM since 1997, Bowman, Babcock. Same draft philosophy. Sound constant structure.

[conundrumed]

While I understand the need for continuity, it isn't the issue, imho.

The players have to play their game, to an extent.

The "system"; the "process" only starts things, but the tenor of the game takes over.

As an aside, that's why I'd keep Frolik with JG and Mony, they need a vet to tell them it's okay to step out of the system if you have a good read.

I'm sure there's been 1 or 2 times where Babcock and Quenneville have muttered, "or, we can do it your way", after a Datsyuk or Kane goal. lol

 

My one wish is that our guys are ready to play like that jersey means something.

I'm a little concerned GG is more about analytics than emotion, but we'll see.

The emotion I've seen most is frustration, and a team reflects it's coach. We've all seen past teams where hockey isn't fun for them.

If we're going to go 1-81, have fun doing it, at least.

 

[MAC331]

11 hours ago, TheFan99 said:

I know he's gone and it's like beating a dead horse but continuity is key and I hope BT and GG re here for a long time. Look what happen to the Oilers with constant change. We're rebuilding too and hope Murray Edwards lets BT and GG stay for a long long haul.

I agree with continuity as a good thing however GG is building a new foundation with some of the same players and some new altogether players. It takes time. I also understand no one wants to lose every game along this learning trail so the quicker they catch on we should see better overall play. Like everyone else I can't believe any system in hockey is that complicated for the players and I thought they played better against STL. ROAD TRIP should bring the player closer together.

[MAC331]

2 hours ago, conundrumed said:

While I understand the need for continuity, it isn't the issue, imho.

The players have to play their game, to an extent.

The "system"; the "process" only starts things, but the tenor of the game takes over.

As an aside, that's why I'd keep Frolik with JG and Mony, they need a vet to tell them it's okay to step out of the system if you have a good read.

I'm sure there's been 1 or 2 times where Babcock and Quenneville have muttered, "or, we can do it your way", after a Datsyuk or Kane goal. lol

 

My one wish is that our guys are ready to play like that jersey means something.

I'm a little concerned GG is more about analytics than emotion, but we'll see.

The emotion I've seen most is frustration, and a team reflects it's coach. We've all seen past teams where hockey isn't fun for them.

If we're going to go 1-81, have fun doing it, at least.

 

WOW lighten up and let them get the system down and in play before you judge their character or heart for the game.

[cross16]

11 hours ago, The_People1 said:

We need to be reminded that the highest paid coach in the league, Mike Babcock, took the Leafs to the worst record last season.  Todd Mclellan, a highly respected coach with some excellent San Jose teams, did no better than his predecessors with the Oilers.  It needs to be said that a coach can only do so much, especially in his first year.

 

So ya, i'm highly critical of our start so far but from what i can gather, the system works.  We need to play the way we play if we want to get to the next level. We can't play BH hockey and think we can win a Cup.  It was never going to happen.  

 

My biggest beef early into the season is that we lack urgency.  We finally saw some life in the team in the 3rd period against the Blues and if we can build on that, then i think the season can be saved.  If not, well... our problem seems to be goals against, again.  We changed the coach, system, and goalies... same results.  Maybe it's time to take a serious look at our D.  It's looking like Hamilton is going the way of Dion Phaneuf and we should cut him loose before he loses all trade value.  Giordano also doesn't have many prime years left and if we don't get anywhere this season with him as our captain, then that's a good reason we should give the C to someone else... and trade Gio.

 

But ya, no way we should change coaches right now, or the next 2 years at least.  We need to keep GG for the long haul, for consistency sake.

 

Bang on. Great post and I agree 100%, except not that Hamilton is heading towards Phaneuf but the rest I am in full agreement with. This is not a systems issue. 

 

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

While I understand the need for continuity, it isn't the issue, imho.

The players have to play their game, to an extent.

The "system"; the "process" only starts things, but the tenor of the game takes over.

As an aside, that's why I'd keep Frolik with JG and Mony, they need a vet to tell them it's okay to step out of the system if you have a good read.

I'm sure there's been 1 or 2 times where Babcock and Quenneville have muttered, "or, we can do it your way", after a Datsyuk or Kane goal. lol

 

My one wish is that our guys are ready to play like that jersey means something.

I'm a little concerned GG is more about analytics than emotion, but we'll see.

The emotion I've seen most is frustration, and a team reflects it's coach. We've all seen past teams where hockey isn't fun for them.

If we're going to go 1-81, have fun doing it, at least.

 

 

This is what I am finding very intersting and purplexing about the "hate" on Gultzan. To me if you are going to criticize him for anything it's for some poor starts, lack of consistancy and lack of intensity. Systems are overrated and you don't struggle like this because of a system, especialy given that the Flames are playing a system that probably at least a third of the league does. If we are going to ask questions about the coaching staff to me it should be in the intensity and preparation not the system.

 

For sure it remains to be seen if he can find the pulse of his team and that to me is the pressing issue, not systems. Players need to wear alot of that too because at some point their pride and their culture as a team has to show up. 

[cccsberg]

On 2016-10-22 at 3:35 PM, phoenix66 said:

all of this would be precisely why i don't put any stock into standings, personal stats  etc until about Christmas. Right now Vancouver and Edmonton are tied for 1st place overall. Anaheim also only has one win, Chicago just 2.

While yes, i have no desire to start off with another 2 for 11 run, I am seeing a lot of good things that tells me we just need to be patient

You're right, even with our terrible start, we're just 3pts out of the playoffs today.  Win tonight, we're right there.

 

As for the team, it seems obvious to my eyes that the team is really working on this "togetherness" theme on the ice, and one of the end products of that is they are visibly slower overall.  They also are producing way fewer "Dangerous" scoring chances, and the combination of the two is one of the reasons for our lack of success.  The other thing is a continuing abundance of ghastly give-aways and an overabundance of penalties.  Its not clear what's the "why?" for the give-aways but they have to stop.  Perhaps? its we are too predictable and teams are laying in wait, perhaps something else but they have been a theme every game.  

 

As for GG, I like some of the changes, but I feel he needs to modify based on who he has to work with rather than regiment everyone into the same things.   That goes for advancing on D, PP entries as well, where our 1-trick pony of Gaudreau drop=back pass then up the middle while everyone else stands at the blue line I could probably defend myself.  It isn't working.  As a positive, the willingness to bench some guys that aren't performing and willingness to move guys around (but not too much, please) has been good, but he needs to settle on some lines and let them work it out between them.  

 

Finally, not sure if Monahan still suffering pain from his injury but he hasn't looked strong on the puck, which admittedly never was his strong suit.  If this continues (I'd put Chiasson or Ferland on that line first...) perhaps GG should look at the possibility of moving Bennett to the 1C and shuffling Monahan to the 2RW position?  You could bring Jankowski in as the 3/4C but that's drastic and not something to consider for at least another couple of months....   Hopefully they can turn it around before then.

 

Final thought:  Seeing as how the Oilers are currently #1OA in the NHL standings, "just" losing to their "powerhouse" twice to start the season maybe isn't the disaster we all consider it to be?  (Just joking, but could be proven wrong if they keep it up.....)

[MAC331]

10 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Bang on. Great post and I agree 100%, except not that Hamilton is heading towards Phaneuf but the rest I am in full agreement with. This is not a systems issue. 

 

 

This is what I am finding very intersting and purplexing about the "hate" on Gultzan. To me if you are going to criticize him for anything it's for some poor starts, lack of consistancy and lack of intensity. Systems are overrated and you don't struggle like this because of a system, especialy given that the Flames are playing a system that probably at least a third of the league does. If we are going to ask questions about the coaching staff to me it should be in the intensity and preparation not the system.

 

For sure it remains to be seen if he can find the pulse of his team and that to me is the pressing issue, not systems. Players need to wear alot of that too because at some point their pride and their culture as a team has to show up. 

I think it is a bit of everything right now and everything will settle down allowing the players to play the game.

[MAC331]

Just now, cccsberg said:

You're right, even with our terrible start, we're just 3pts out of the playoffs today.  Win tonight, we're right there.

 

As for the team, it seems obvious to my eyes that the team is really working on this "togetherness" theme on the ice, and one of the end products of that is they are visibly slower overall.  They also are producing way fewer "Dangerous" scoring chances, and the combination of the two is one of the reasons for our lack of success.  The other thing is a continuing abundance of ghastly give-aways and an overabundance of penalties.  Its not clear what's the "why?" for the give-aways but they have to stop.  Perhaps? its we are too predictable and teams are laying in wait, perhaps something else but they have been a theme every game.  

 

As for GG, I like some of the changes, but I feel he needs to modify based on who he has to work with rather than regiment everyone into the same things.   That goes for advancing on D, PP entries as well, where our 1-trick pony of Gaudreau drop=back pass then up the middle while everyone else stands at the blue line I could probably defend myself.  It isn't working.  As a positive, the willingness to bench some guys that aren't performing and willingness to move guys around (but not too much, please) has been good, but he needs to settle on some lines and let them work it out between them.  

 

Finally, not sure if Monahan still suffering pain from his injury but he hasn't looked strong on the puck, which admittedly never was his strong suit.  If this continues (I'd put Chiasson or Ferland on that line first...) perhaps GG should look at the possibility of moving Bennett to the 1C and shuffling Monahan to the 2RW position?  You could bring Jankowski in as the 3/4C but that's drastic and not something to consider for at least another couple of months....   Hopefully they can turn it around before then.

 

Final thought:  Seeing as how the Oilers are currently #1OA in the NHL standings, "just" losing to their "powerhouse" twice to start the season maybe isn't the disaster we all consider it to be?  (Just joking, but could be proven wrong if they keep it up.....)

It's a long season and we didn't have a great camp due to certain players out or not with the team yet. New systems or no new system this team may still be finding itself. Fans that panic in the 1st month of the season bring it on themselves. We are not going to be this bad and the Oilers will not remain having the early success.

One thing I will say about becoming more of a possession type team means more puck battles so I agree with you the muscle needs to be spread around on these lines. I would like to see them try Chiasson with JG/SM. Ferland with SB/TB and Veersteeg with MB/MF. Time to put Bouma back with Stajan.

[JTech780]

Continuity of coaching is great if you have the right coach, Hartley wasn't the right coach. It is yet to be seen if Gulutzan is the right coach, but that doesn't mean you keep running with Hartley, who clearly wasn't getting the job done.

 

It takes about 15-20 games with a new coach before you start to see the players feeling comfortable in the new system. This exacerbated by the fact that Monahan missed most of camp, Gaudreau missed all of camp, Backlund came into camp recovering from a concussion, Versteeg wasn't here for camp, Elliott and Johnson are learning how to play with new defensemen.

 

If after the 20 game mark we don't start to see a turn around than I will be more concerned.

 

To this point though Gulutzan is taking way more of the blame than he should.

[cross16]

3 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

Continuity of coaching is great if you have the right coach, Hartley wasn't the right coach. It is yet to be seen if Gulutzan is the right coach, but that doesn't mean you keep running with Hartley, who clearly wasn't getting the job done.

 

It takes about 15-20 games with a new coach before you start to see the players feeling comfortable in the new system. This exacerbated by the fact that Monahan missed most of camp, Gaudreau missed all of camp, Backlund came into camp recovering from a concussion, Versteeg wasn't here for camp, Elliott and Johnson are learning how to play with new defensemen.

 

If after the 20 game mark we don't start to see a turn around than I will be more concerned.

 

To this point though Gulutzan is taking way more of the blame than he should.

 

Agreed. Easiest thing in pro sports for fans: blame the coach. 

 

 

I like this. IMO, players are far more accountable for what its going on right now than coaching. Blaming the coaching is letting them off the hook which you can't do. 

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Agreed. Easiest thing in pro sports for fans: blame the coach. 

 

 

I like this. IMO, players are far more accountable for what its going on right now than coaching. Blaming the coaching is letting them off the hook which you can't do. 

 

The obvious things to blame the coach for are lines, pairs, and special teams.  The lines are somewhat unavoidable; we only have so many players to try out in situations.  But, you can't keep lines together if they are doing squat.  From what I have seen, Bouma is not working with Backlund.  Ferland is ok with Stajan, but getting limited minutes.  The other lines seem to be ok, except for finding that elusive top RW.  

 

I can't figure out whether the PP is execution or design.  Brouwer has not shown much chemistry with Johnny, but they keep forcing it.  How many units are we deploying?  I count 3.  The players seem lost and can't do anything that looks like a system when they gain the zone.  Maybe they just need to simplify it and work from the successes,.

[conundrumed]

4 hours ago, cross16 said:

This is what I am finding very intersting and purplexing about the "hate" on Gultzan. To me if you are going to criticize him for anything it's for some poor starts, lack of consistancy and lack of intensity. Systems are overrated and you don't struggle like this because of a system, especialy given that the Flames are playing a system that probably at least a third of the league does. If we are going to ask questions about the coaching staff to me it should be in the intensity and preparation not the system.

 

For sure it remains to be seen if he can find the pulse of his team and that to me is the pressing issue, not systems. Players need to wear alot of that too because at some point their pride and their culture as a team has to show up. 

I agree and that's what I was getting at. I don't get the hate for GG so early, my issue is the lack of intensity from the players and they are way too fast to show frustration which I believe only makes it harder for them to focus, e.g. Gio tackles a player from behind in an outright penalty and then gets an extra 2 for lipping the ref.

It's not so much the "things not going our way" that gets me, it's how frustrated they look and I wish they take the revenge route rather than the low road.

Could it be everyone is just too worried about making a mistake so they're all tentative and nervous?

Are the D worried the forwards aren't helping/covering them well enough?

I don't know, just throwing it out there.

[travel_dude]

26 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I agree and that's what I was getting at. I don't get the hate for GG so early, my issue is the lack of intensity from the players and they are way too fast to show frustration which I believe only makes it harder for them to focus, e.g. Gio tackles a player from behind in an outright penalty and then gets an extra 2 for lipping the ref.

It's not so much the "things not going our way" that gets me, it's how frustrated they look and I wish they take the revenge route rather than the low road.

Could it be everyone is just too worried about making a mistake so they're all tentative and nervous?

Are the D worried the forwards aren't helping/covering them well enough?

I don't know, just throwing it out there.

 

The way it looks is the players not knowing what they are going to do next.  Johnny gaining the zone with zero options for passing because nobody is open; pass to the point.  Defense taking so long to come out because they have a forechecker in their face; long pass along the boards.  Every play seems forced.

 

Some things I would like the team to try, but may not fit with GG's playbook:

• criss-crossing upon entering the zone; mixes up the defenders
• when we get control on the PP, keep the puck down low
• passes inside the O-zone that have the defenders going in different directions
• center carries the puck with speed to the blue line, then dishes off inside the blueline
• a shot from the point is tipped instead of shot directly at the goalie (needs practice - Frolik is good at it)  

[cross16]

41 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I agree and that's what I was getting at. I don't get the hate for GG so early, my issue is the lack of intensity from the players and they are way too fast to show frustration which I believe only makes it harder for them to focus, e.g. Gio tackles a player from behind in an outright penalty and then gets an extra 2 for lipping the ref.

It's not so much the "things not going our way" that gets me, it's how frustrated they look and I wish they take the revenge route rather than the low road.

Could it be everyone is just too worried about making a mistake so they're all tentative and nervous?

Are the D worried the forwards aren't helping/covering them well enough?

I don't know, just throwing it out there.

 

I agree with this and think this is  large part of what is happening. I think they put alot of pressure on themselves to get off to a good start. I still ton' thinkt he first 3-4 games were that bad but I do think they got a bit unlucky there too. Couple bad turnovers, couple bad goals but they were doing some good things but that gets forgotten when you lose. Now I think they are to the point where they feel they "have" to win almost at cost and that conflicts with learning a style of play. 

 

Leads to alot of frustration and panic and thats what I see in their game right now. I really thougth they were getting somewhere with the Buffalo game, but it seems like once they lost the next once they started panicking. 

[cross16]

Was going to do this myself, but Darren Haynes beat me too it.

 

Hopefully this breaths some sanity into Flames fans. Darren Haynes wrote an article and summarized recent coaching hires. Spoiler alert: the sky isn't falling. 

 

http://www.flamesfrom80feet.ca/2016/10/recurring-issue-slow-starts-for-new-nhl.html

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

The way it looks is the players not knowing what they are going to do next.  Johnny gaining the zone with zero options for passing because nobody is open; pass to the point.  Defense taking so long to come out because they have a forechecker in their face; long pass along the boards.  Every play seems forced.

 

Some things I would like the team to try, but may not fit with GG's playbook:

•  

Skate like hockey is a love, not a task. Take the offside on a PP because you're standing still at their blue line. The puck carrier deserves it.

Just play like it matters, I'll buy in.

Am I asking too much?

[JTech780]

• http://www.msgnetworks.com/videos/vallys-view-the-true-value-of-blocking-shots/

 

Great video here explaining when to block shots and when not too. I love that we aren't relying on blocking shots as much this year.

[cross16]

So after 9 games Flames are at .500 and trending in the right direction. Last year they were .500 after their 2nd game but didn't get back to .500 again until December 19th and their 32nd game of the year. 

 

Suffice to say, they are off to a better start this year. 

[robrob74]

I am glad things are turning around. Gaudreau and Monahan should start going soon as well. I hear, from the flames radio broadcasters that Monahan looks slow and Gaudreau is still finding his game. Both are due to missing the TC. 

 

Bennett plays well even when he isn't scoring and doesn't get credit for that play enough. We think because he isn't scoring he isn't doing enough or regressing. But who really scores consistently other than super stars? 

 

The lines are starting to shape up snd apparently Ferland with Stajan has been a great reunion so far (linemates vs Canucks/playoffs). I wanted Ferland up in the lineup, but I also wondered why Hartley went away from lines that worked.

 

GG is finding his way. Hope it continues. 

[MAC331]

Does this page work its way down automatically with anyone else's computer ??????

[Carty]

3 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Does this page work its way down automatically with anyone else's computer ??????

 

Like this ?...      Did you accidentally click your scroll wheel ?...   If so, just click it again...

 

      

[conundrumed]

Is it just me, or are there more "comments" coming out of practices now?

First was, his yelling about turnovers. The 2nd, GG reported they had a crap practice Thursday.

Hope that ends like a week ago.

[DirtyDeeds]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Is it just me, or are there more "comments" coming out of practices now?

First was, his yelling about turnovers. The 2nd, GG reported they had a crap practice Thursday.

Hope that ends like a week ago.

Seems somewhat like that.

 

I was more concerned with the optional morning practices especially when trying to teach a new system. If you want to point a finger at a major  reason for a slow start then look at those optional practices first.

[Kulstad]

Moved Defensemen talk to the Flames Defense thread (linky-poo --> http://fans.flames.nhl.com/community/topic/21053-flames-defense/?page=47)

 

[CheersMan]

The 10 game mark would seem fitting for a 10 game specialty team summary.

-We are the most undisciplined team in the entire league with 51 minor penalties, bad sign. 

-While short handed, our PK is 28^th, bad sign.

-We are drawing lots of penalties, 3^rd most, good sign.

-Our PP is 27^th, 0.1% from 29^th, bad sign.

--------------------

The PP is about getting possession of the puck and controlling it in the ozone, I’m seeing a team that struggles to get into the ozone, leaving little hope for the rest. 

In our early games I watched our PK skate and apply continual pressure.  Last game I see a PK sit back and form a box (Hartley style). 

I’m starting to get tired of the excuses of “no training camp” or “new system” or “new coach” or “that was a really good team we just played”.  Times up boys!  Its time to start out-working the other team on the PP and PK.

Team Canada played a total of 9 games (including preseason) at the World Cup with all new team-mates, new coach, new system.  We play game 11 tomorrow.