Calgary Flames Drafting and Development: Your Analysis

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

I personally believe Brouwer had an influence in Versteeg coming here because Versteeg was offered a contract from the Oilers after his PTO with them.  Versteeg choose to play for the Flames.  If Brouwer goes in the off season, then I don't think Versteeg is coming back next year.  

 

I don't think he is coming back anyways because he will surely want a big raise but especially if we move Brouwer or Brouwer gets selected via the expansion draft.

 

I think once Lazar is healthy, he will get a shot on the top line RW with JG and SM. His speed could prove effective there.  

 

I'm torn on Backlund because Bennett has been so disappointing offensively.    I would consider moving forward with Backlund as our 2nd line Center at $6-mil-per (and keep his line intact long term).  Then run with Jankowski and Lazar as our 3rd and 4th line Centers.  I like Lazar as a C because we have no other RHS C in the lineup.  

 

Bennett would be traded for Noah Hanifin or equivalent.

 

I like Versteeg, but he is a RHS on LW.  I think he sets up for one timers well on the off wng, but is a bit of a liability for setting up Bennett.  If you were going to insert Janko on the 3rd line, then you can choose between playing him at C or playing him on LW.  Either Bennett has a skilled playmaker on wing or a big center to take the draws.  No need to trade Bennett for NH.

[rickross]

Versteeg has been a good utility player, plays a smart game. I wouldn't over pay him but he's a good asset to have. They won't trade Bennett for Hanifin, we're getting deep at the D position not that u can have too many but we need C's and RWs to develop. Hunter Smith, Austin Carroll...I'm not overly excited about their future prospects, maybe BT uses them to recoup some picks this year. We shall see what the expansion draft does to this team. We could land some decent prospects and NHLers this summer once the dust settles

[tmac70]

On 2017-03-06 at 9:09 AM, MAC331 said:

What the H are you going on about ?

Did you not make this comment: " I really wish people would get away from numbering lines and labelling players"... 

[MAC331]

On ‎2017‎-‎03‎-‎06 at 10:55 PM, rickross said:

Versteeg has been a good utility player, plays a smart game. I wouldn't over pay him but he's a good asset to have. They won't trade Bennett for Hanifin, we're getting deep at the D position not that u can have too many but we need C's and RWs to develop. Hunter Smith, Austin Carroll...I'm not overly excited about their future prospects, maybe BT uses them to recoup some picks this year. We shall see what the expansion draft does to this team. We could land some decent prospects and NHLers this summer once the dust settles

The team isn't real dependent on the RW players you mention here and they have a few years yet to develop. Currently I don't think we have a talent problem any longer on our RW especially with picking up Lazar. Pribyl is likely the one RW the organization is hopeful of bringing along and there is now no urgent need. If we got rid of Bouma and Chiasson in the offseason I would look to bring back Versteeg.

[rickross]

On 3/8/2017 at 8:29 AM, MAC331 said:

The team isn't real dependent on the RW players you mention here and they have a few years yet to develop. Currently I don't think we have a talent problem any longer on our RW especially with picking up Lazar. Pribyl is likely the one RW the organization is hopeful of bringing along and there is now no urgent need. If we got rid of Bouma and Chiasson in the offseason I would look to bring back Versteeg.

I'd like to think RW is still our weakest depth position, right now we have Brouwer, Ferland, Chiasson and F. Hamilton as our main RW group. Prospect wise, Poirier can play RW as well as and hopefully Pribyl can make the team next year. I'd believe their still in the market for someone to take the 1st line RW spot permanently.. Ferland has been playing well but he's likely more of a 2/3rd liner moving forward. Its not an emergency but it'd be nice to lock up a foundational RW to complete a true 1st line. 

[MAC331]

3 hours ago, rickross said:

I'd like to think RW is still our weakest depth position, right now we have Brouwer, Ferland, Chiasson and F. Hamilton as our main RW group. Prospect wise, Poirier can play RW as well as and hopefully Pribyl can make the team next year. I'd believe their still in the market for someone to take the 1st line RW spot permanently.. Ferland has been playing well but he's likely more of a 2/3rd liner moving forward. Its not an emergency but it'd be nice to lock up a foundational RW to complete a true 1st line. 

Explain to me what makes Ferland a 2nd or 3rd liner to you. If he works with JG and SM is that not what matters.

Right now in counting Ferland as a RW you have Frolik, Brouwer, Lazar, Chiasson, Versteeg, Pribyl, Hamilton, all can play RW and play it well. I wouldn't say we are weak down the R-side at all. Going into next season may be a different story but I think BT has done a good job building up or RS.

[AlbertaBoy12]

5 hours ago, rickross said:

I'd like to think RW is still our weakest depth position, right now we have Brouwer, Ferland, Chiasson and F. Hamilton as our main RW group. Prospect wise, Poirier can play RW as well as and hopefully Pribyl can make the team next year. I'd believe their still in the market for someone to take the 1st line RW spot permanently.. Ferland has been playing well but he's likely more of a 2/3rd liner moving forward. Its not an emergency but it'd be nice to lock up a foundational RW to complete a true 1st line. 

Crosby has not foundational wingers for years and hes been just fine. You dont need 3 all starts to make a line anymore, look around the league almost every big name scorer is either paired or solo, theres very few threesomes. Alot of big name players will play together on the powerplay but their 5 on 5 time is usual seperate. All the johnny/mony line needs is a guy who can crash and bang consistently, has enough skill to not be a liabiliy, and let them go about their business.  

 

I could go team by team and list off all the lines to prove this point, but I dont think thats necessary. The pittsburgh penguins do it right spreading out malkin, kessel, and crosby on 3 lines, bringing them together for the pp and finding the right players to compliment them 5 on 5. 

[cross16]

Irregardless of my views of the talent level of RW, I think the cap prevents them from doing anything unless something falls in their lap. Need to address G and D first and once you do there will be limited resources available to bring in a "first line" RW. A foundational player likely isn't coming unless the steal one in the draft so for now I think you are best to save the money and try and match skill sets. Ferland doesn't have to be a true top like forward but if he helps that line maximize their potential, he fits just fine. 

[MAC331]

8 hours ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Crosby has not foundational wingers for years and hes been just fine. You dont need 3 all starts to make a line anymore, look around the league almost every big name scorer is either paired or solo, theres very few threesomes. Alot of big name players will play together on the powerplay but their 5 on 5 time is usual seperate. All the johnny/mony line needs is a guy who can crash and bang consistently, has enough skill to not be a liabiliy, and let them go about their business.  

 

I could go team by team and list off all the lines to prove this point, but I dont think thats necessary. The pittsburgh penguins do it right spreading out malkin, kessel, and crosby on 3 lines, bringing them together for the pp and finding the right players to compliment them 5 on 5. 

I think this takes us back to the line pairings conversation and matching up talent that works well together. I think GG has found this now with JG, SM and MF and with Tkachuk, Backlund and Frolik. The other two lines are OK but not quite clicking however are contributing.

[MAC331]

8 hours ago, cross16 said:

Irregardless of my views of the talent level of RW, I think the cap prevents them from doing anything unless something falls in their lap. Need to address G and D first and once you do there will be limited resources available to bring in a "first line" RW. A foundational player likely isn't coming unless the steal one in the draft so for now I think you are best to save the money and try and match skill sets. Ferland doesn't have to be a true top like forward but if he helps that line maximize their potential, he fits just fine. 

Agreed

[MAC331]

8 hours ago, cross16 said:

Irregardless of my views of the talent level of RW, I think the cap prevents them from doing anything unless something falls in their lap. Need to address G and D first and once you do there will be limited resources available to bring in a "first line" RW. A foundational player likely isn't coming unless the steal one in the draft so for now I think you are best to save the money and try and match skill sets. Ferland doesn't have to be a true top like forward but if he helps that line maximize their potential, he fits just fine. 

Agreed

[rickross]

The draft is still months from now and the focus is playoffs right now but anyone have an idea who the Flames could target with their 1st Rd pick? Do they even bother keeping the pick at all ? The 2nd Rd pick doesn't bother me because we did get an NHL ready prospect in Lazar and Stone was worth a 3rd IMO..but only if we resign him!

[AlbertaBoy12]

7 hours ago, rickross said:

The draft is still months from now and the focus is playoffs right now but anyone have an idea who the Flames could target with their 1st Rd pick? Do they even bother keeping the pick at all ? The 2nd Rd pick doesn't bother me because we did get an NHL ready prospect in Lazar and Stone was worth a 3rd IMO..but only if we resign him!

I would not be suprised to see the flames trade the first if we can pick up a young #4 dman that would fit with finishing up our D corp or a young winger to solidify our top 9, otherwise I would assume we make the pick.

[cross16]

I think they will keep the pick. I dont' think the value of what you are going to get in trade for your first rounder is going to be very good because this is such a softer draft. Plus I also don't see Treliving wanting to be without any picks in the first 3 rounds.

 

cliche, but they'll target the best player on their board. With how wide open the draft is looking like that could be anyone.  It's really hard to pinpoint becuaes I think the first round is going to be all over the place. I think there are going to be many surprises both in terms of players who "slip" and who go much higher because teams are going to be so over the map with how they rate prospects this year. Huge lack of consensus. 

[conundrumed]

11 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I think they will keep the pick. I dont' think the value of what you are going to get in trade for your first rounder is going to be very good because this is such a softer draft. Plus I also don't see Treliving wanting to be without any picks in the first 3 rounds.

 

cliche, but they'll target the best player on their board. With how wide open the draft is looking like that could be anyone.  It's really hard to pinpoint becuaes I think the first round is going to be all over the place. I think there are going to be many surprises both in terms of players who "slip" and who go much higher because teams are going to be so over the map with how they rate prospects this year. Huge lack of consensus. 

As much as this coming draft is tabbed as, "not very good", I believe that's just for real high end players.

The depth looks great. I agree it will be an unpredictable draft, there are a lot of players that are good.

Our scouting is going to have to be great.

[rickross]

I can't recall the last time a draft was this wide open, especially after the projected top 3. I agree, I think they'll be some hidden gems in this draft but like cross16 was saying draft picks appear to have been devalued as currency this year. The Avs, Nucks and Knights( still feels weird saying that) will get good players. Maybe not the most ideal draft to base a rebuild on but things could get interesting come June. 

[conundrumed]

12 minutes ago, rickross said:

I can't recall the last time a draft was this wide open, especially after the projected top 3. I agree, I think they'll be some hidden gems in this draft but like cross16 was saying draft picks appear to have been devalued as currency this year. The Avs, Nucks and Knights( still feels weird saying that) will get good players. Maybe not the most ideal draft to base a rebuild on but things could get interesting come June. 

Great, now an NHL team with that name. Somehow, I can see me cheering for a 4-78 season.

[cross16]

There is for sure talent there (also why I advocate keeping the pick) its' just not as good as previous years that's all. I think there are probably around 20 players or maybe less than I've seen so far that I would give a first round grade to. so in the back half of the first round I think you'll be picking players that would normally go in the 2nd round in a typical draft. 

 

I think its going to resemble 1999. Few good players at the top, some steals later that you didn't see coming, surprises all over the place, but a good chance a good chunk of the first round never sees the NHL. 

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

I think its going to resemble 1999. Few good players at the top, some steals later that you didn't see coming, surprises all over the place, but a good chance a good chunk of the first round never sees the NHL. 

 

I generally agree with your first paragraph.   Would disagree with the above, simply because in 1999, there were only 3 first rounders who never saw the NHL.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl1999e.html

 

I would go with similarity to 2004 (Ovechkin fans would disagree with me but he's never ranked that well with me).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_NHL_Entry_Draft

 

Granted, a toned down 2004.

 

You have one or two guys who rank to potentially turn out to be superstars or stars.

 

You have an ok top 5.  Your top 10 is thin, and it gets thinner from there.   The draft is generally considered weak.

 

HOWEVER, the prior year (2003), you had one of the all-time best crops ever (2015-2016, were two unusally strong years), and as a result they received a disproportionate amount of ice and development time.   Leaving the 2004 crop a bit under-developed, underachieving, and under-rated.  

 

In hindsight, and this is where I go back to agreeing with cross's first paragraph, there is the potential for a greater number of later-picked surprises.   Including goaltenders and D (cause hey...if the forwards aren't performing well enough, maybe there's a reason for that)  Ie., in 2004, Devan Dubnyk, Cory Schneider, Mike Green, Alex Edler, Mark Streit, Pekka Rinne.

 

 

 

[rickross]

What prospect should the Flames drop next year and which ones should be granted extensions?? Hathaway, Kulak,Culkin, Morrison, Wotherspoon are all up after this season, Bennett, Gillies, Lazar are obvious resigns. That's a ton of D prospects to consider and I can't see Treliving letting them all walk. 

 

Out of the bunch I think Kulak, Hathaway and Wotherspoon have earned extensions, Morrison could be replaced by the new college kid Healey and Culkin seems to have hit a wall with his development. 

[420since1974]

I think that the main reason that Morrison is still in the organization is that he plays as a RHRD.

Aside from Andersson, there's definitely a lack of quality prospects at that position.

[MAC331]

4 hours ago, rickross said:

What prospect should the Flames drop next year and which ones should be granted extensions?? Hathaway, Kulak,Culkin, Morrison, Wotherspoon are all up after this season, Bennett, Gillies, Lazar are obvious resigns. That's a ton of D prospects to consider and I can't see Treliving letting them all walk. 

 

Out of the bunch I think Kulak, Hathaway and Wotherspoon have earned extensions, Morrison could be replaced by the new college kid Healey and Culkin seems to have hit a wall with his development. 

I would say Culkin and Wotherspoon have ran their course here and will be let go. Kulak and Hathaway likely get new contracts. Morrison ???

[rickross]

Culkin and Morrison are gone . No surprises there, Flames looked like they were hoping to catch a diamond in the rough after Valamaki, it'll be some time before we  see the results of this years draftees. We've used draft picks to acquire, Hamilton, Lazar, Elliot, Stone, Hamonic and Smith. I love the fact Hamonic is apart of the team but our scouts have fewer chances to land NHLers moving forward. 

 

If Janko makes the team next year it's guys like Klimchuk, Mangiapane, Dube, Poirier and Shink that we'd need to see step up in a big way, we don't have a very deep forward group but our goalies and D prospects hold most of the promise. Hopefully there are some pleasant surprises that come out of training camp. I'm curious to see if a guy like Pribyl can do enough to make the jump, Hathaway and Kulak seem like the logical choices and we'll see how the goalies shape up in camp. Flames have a good bevy of prospects but not enough blue chips to go about saying the cupboards are stacked to the reserves. Flames could always rely more on college and international UFAs but we'll see who BT trades down the line to acquire more picks, assets. 

 

[AlbertaBoy12]

7 hours ago, rickross said:

Flames have a good bevy of prospects but not enough blue chips to go about saying the cupboards are stacked to the reserves. Flames could always rely more on college and international UFAs but we'll see who BT trades down the line to acquire more picks, assets. 

We dont need a ton of blue chip prospects just waiting in the wings in the AAA to say the cupboards are full. I get what youre saying but that really doesnt make sense, if we had loads of blue chippers it would be a bonus for sure, but they wouldnt have spots and would be used as trade bait. At this point it would be nice to maybe have another guy or two in the system, but im happy with having Dube and Janko, among other guys who havent signed contracts yet, like Lindstrom, Mattson, Phillips or even Ruzicka this year. Those guys are all decent to have in the system for the forward group. Also I guess it depends how you feel about Mangiapane(he had a good first year), Pribyl(the flames seem high on him), and Tuulola(although not sure things are looking great for him)

[MAC331]

7 hours ago, rickross said:

Culkin and Morrison are gone . No surprises there, Flames looked like they were hoping to catch a diamond in the rough after Valamaki, it'll be some time before we  see the results of this years draftees. We've used draft picks to acquire, Hamilton, Lazar, Elliot, Stone, Hamonic and Smith. I love the fact Hamonic is apart of the team but our scouts have fewer chances to land NHLers moving forward. 

 

If Janko makes the team next year it's guys like Klimchuk, Mangiapane, Dube, Poirier and Shink that we'd need to see step up in a big way, we don't have a very deep forward group but our goalies and D prospects hold most of the promise. Hopefully there are some pleasant surprises that come out of training camp. I'm curious to see if a guy like Pribyl can do enough to make the jump, Hathaway and Kulak seem like the logical choices and we'll see how the goalies shape up in camp. Flames have a good bevy of prospects but not enough blue chips to go about saying the cupboards are stacked to the reserves. Flames could always rely more on college and international UFAs but we'll see who BT trades down the line to acquire more picks, assets. 

 

We have a young core group which will make it tougher for prospects to crack the line up. The draft picks used both the past few years and now have negated a pressing need to have all those picks available to us. We seem to be building some quality surplus at LW and LHLS defense which provides a position of trade possibilities for areas of lack.