Brad Treliving - GM Tracking & Evaluation

[cross16]

I get now is not the time to decide this but I think Treliving has earned himself an extension. Still not without faults and not without his misses, but I think the way the organization is operating right now is the way you want it to run. Sutter no doubt helps but just even looking at the players they are targeting, the fits within the lineup, and then how they stacked their needs going into the TDL, it's all impressive and the sign of a well functioning organization. Yes I know he has to get Gaudreau signed and this post is going to look really silly if he doesn't, but I full expect he will.

 

As long as this team doesn't fall off a cliff he will have delivered 2 of the best seasons in franchise history and on top of that their AHL team leads the league in win %. 

 

Not something that is a rush or has to be done but i'm just saying I think Treliving has earned it.

[The_People1]

10 hours ago, cross16 said:

I get now is not the time to decide this but I think Treliving has earned himself an extension. Still not without faults and not without his misses, but I think the way the organization is operating right now is the way you want it to run. Sutter no doubt helps but just even looking at the players they are targeting, the fits within the lineup, and then how they stacked their needs going into the TDL, it's all impressive and the sign of a well functioning organization. Yes I know he has to get Gaudreau signed and this post is going to look really silly if he doesn't, but I full expect he will.

 

As long as this team doesn't fall off a cliff he will have delivered 2 of the best seasons in franchise history and on top of that their AHL team leads the league in win %. 

 

Not something that is a rush or has to be done but i'm just saying I think Treliving has earned it.

 

Still to early to extend him.  I want to see how he gets both Gaudreau and Tkachuk signed.  I still believe losing Gaudreau to UFA is a fireable offense.

 

I'm already kind of upset he didn't land any big fish this season but all can be forgiven if he knew he could bring back Gaudreau and Tkachuk long term so we have 3 or 4 more cracks at the Cup with this core.  If this was our last chance with Gaudreau and he didn't go all in... 

[conundrumed]

3 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Still to early to extend him.  I want to see how he gets both Gaudreau and Tkachuk signed.  I still believe losing Gaudreau to UFA is a fireable offense.

 

I'm already kind of upset he didn't land any big fish this season but all can be forgiven if he knew he could bring back Gaudreau and Tkachuk long term so we have 3 or 4 more cracks at the Cup with this core.  If this was our last chance with Gaudreau and he didn't go all in... 

Toffoli's a pretty big fish. Then when you add in fit, contract and results Toffoli's looking like a very big fish.

Add in Jarnkrok's fit, results pending, BT did some extremely tidy work.

Also, as cross mentioned, BT saying he didn't want to add depth that wasn't better than what we have is on point.

There are big names, but you add by fit, not name brand. My case in point is likely to be Rakell. If he isn't scoring, he's not good in other areas. I've always viewed him as lazy.

You really just have to look at the NHL and AHL standings to see that we are in a very good place that we haven't been in a loooong time, if ever. Add in our jr prospect watch looks very healthy with Kerins, Poirier, Coronato, Beck, Kuznetzov, Nikolayev, Stromgren, Frances, the goalies...we're looking pretty darn healthy in the system.

[sak22]

5 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Still to early to extend him.  I want to see how he gets both Gaudreau and Tkachuk signed.  I still believe losing Gaudreau to UFA is a fireable offense.

 

I'm already kind of upset he didn't land any big fish this season but all can be forgiven if he knew he could bring back Gaudreau and Tkachuk long term so we have 3 or 4 more cracks at the Cup with this core.  If this was our last chance with Gaudreau and he didn't go all in... 

What more do you expect out of the big fish?  I know Eichel was the biggest one, but the reality is acquiring him should've never been with 2022 in mind and his performance to start in Vegas is indicative of that.  Toffoli has 15 points in 17 games in Calgary, while Eichel has 11 in 17.  More importantly is the Flames are 12-3-2 in that period while Vegas is 6-10-1.  

[cross16]

I don't know what bigger fish was out there to acquire. Eichel sure but the Flames didn't have what the Sabres were looking for and I think that was made pretty clear through the process. What else did he miss on?

 

I also struggle with this idea he didn't go all in. How do you justify that when he went after players to fill all the needs he had. What more did you want him to do?

 

Honestly I think this "all in" idea is just fan speak. Concept doesn't really have meaning to me. 

[tmac70]

I am in the camp he did his job. For me as we don't know what went on behind close doors, the decision to hire Sutter has changed this club's idenity and culture. Tre is good at contracts, draft choices have been much bettter, he has improved at adding the right pieces, bonuses but thats your role as a GM. However, the pendulm shift doesn't happen with out Sutter, no matter how you paint this.  For me similar to Peeps, from the outside looking in, its the JG, MT , MAGS and Kylinton situations that require being dealt with.  The decision to hire Sutter and where that came from trumps everything else. This organization has been terrible at brining in below grade coaching hoping the talent on the ice succeeds. As fans we have seen it for decades it just nice to see them try a seasoned coach and the results it brought. 

[travel_dude]

I don't think we did bad overall this year in trades.  Got Toffoli, who will be here for a few years.  Got Jarnkrok who we can re-sign if the cost is right.  I don't expect him to get any big raise, and that's assuming he fits.  The big thing for me is we didn't go after Giroux, which is not a bad thing.  Steep cost.  Not much time to affect the team.  I would have like Namestnikov, but whatevs.  He's a UFA as well.  Domi turned out to be a weird deal.  As much as he could be an impact player, there's parts of his game I hate.  The available D were all seeming to go for 2nd rounders.  I wasn't hoping to get Braun, so that's good.

 

Get the team signed this summer.  Fix any problems with cap.  Position us for next season.  This season is all on the players and coach to make some noise.

[The_People1]

Failing to land a big fish is not a fireable offense guys.  I was just expressing how it adds to disappointment if we also lose Gaudreau this summer.

 

Anyways, if BT can extend both Gaudreau and Tkachuk, then he's effectively extended our window for the next 3+ years so we will have many more opportunities to land that big fish eventually.  His extension should be tied to how Gaudreau is handled this summer. 

[travel_dude]

3 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

Failing to land a big fish is not a fireable offense guys.  I was just expressing how it adds to disappointment if we also lose Gaudreau this summer.

 

Anyways, if BT can extend both Gaudreau and Tkachuk, then he's effectively extended our window for the next 3+ years so we will have many more opportunities to land that big fish eventually.  His extension should be tied to how Gaudreau is handled this summer. 

 

I don't think there is any question that the summer fish are more important to validate the GM.  I like most of the decisions made this summer and the trades completed this year.  Some turned out a lot better than we ever expectd.  Some of the drafting this year a little suspect, as we missed out on guys we should have gone for, but that's not all on the GM.

 

One would expect that the Gaudreau re-signing is going to get done.  It will cause some sleepless nights for (some) fans and likely the GM, but I have no reason to believe it isn't happening.  It will cost what it costs and we might complain, but we will have him.  Tkachuk is more of a issue for term and dollars, but I think there is understanding that he's as much a part of the future as Gaudreau.  

 

[rocketdoctor]

Personally I will be happy of he trades Tkachuk for a good return.  Signs Mange and Gaudreau.

 

As good as Tkachuk can be I do not think he is worth 9M+      Also in current level cap world having 2 players earning 9M+ each will just be an anchor round the rest of the team.   Would prefer Tkachuks proposed salary to be split between two more contracts like Lindholms!!

[robrob74]

8 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Toffoli's a pretty big fish. Then when you add in fit, contract and results Toffoli's looking like a very big fish.

Add in Jarnkrok's fit, results pending, BT did some extremely tidy work.

Also, as cross mentioned, BT saying he didn't want to add depth that wasn't better than what we have is on point.

There are big names, but you add by fit, not name brand. My case in point is likely to be Rakell. If he isn't scoring, he's not good in other areas. I've always viewed him as lazy.

You really just have to look at the NHL and AHL standings to see that we are in a very good place that we haven't been in a loooong time, if ever. Add in our jr prospect watch looks very healthy with Kerins, Poirier, Coronato, Beck, Kuznetzov, Nikolayev, Stromgren, Frances, the goalies...we're looking pretty darn healthy in the system.

 

I think it is kind of funny. Over the years I’d complain about the AHL team and not doing well, and a lot on here would point out that it wasn’t a big deal, but when it is going well, it’s a great thing. I just wonder what we are allowed to think? 
 

I am not saying I’m not happy with what the prospects are doing because I used to and still do believe that success down there might translate to winning here. Winning and having the taste for it can’t be undersold. You need to win to acquire the taste and the hate to lose. This is why I liked guys like M. Jordan. Winning is the most important.

 

i hope that BT didn’t mortgage the future with these trades. I think if we go deep they re-sign BT. If he’s out in the first round, he gutted the future and might not sign JG and can only sign MT to the qualifying offer, in which case he is forced to trade him. Then we’ve traded picks that would’ve helped in a rebuild, extending that process… 

 

but In saying that, I’m happy with the trades. We needed depth and it’s a lot better depth than last year. Too bad Monahan didn’t go on IR last year and Bennett moved up the lineup. I don’t know if SK would have taken Monahan instead of Gio. But having Bennett would be nice right now. 
 

although, I like the mix. I’ve liked what I’ve seen in Jarnkrok so far. Toffoli, had a good start, he does other things well but I’d like to see more? Maybe being moved up is good for him. Players go in and out of consistency and he does do the other stuff well. 

[robrob74]

6 hours ago, cross16 said:

I don't know what bigger fish was out there to acquire. Eichel sure but the Flames didn't have what the Sabres were looking for and I think that was made pretty clear through the process. What else did he miss on?

 

I also struggle with this idea he didn't go all in. How do you justify that when he went after players to fill all the needs he had. What more did you want him to do?

 

Honestly I think this "all in" idea is just fan speak. Concept doesn't really have meaning to me. 

All in to us doesn’t mean traded everything. I think he traded a lot to get the pieces that fit though. So if we don’t get passed the first round it’s a lot to pay. Like i said in my previous post, I liked the effort and adds, I’m just looking at it in the other perspective. There’s danger and it could be the future if we lose first round and Johnny doesn’t sign.
But I think we can win at least a round or two, and the 2nd or 3rd rounds depending on who we play and if there are injuries. But he’s done a lot to add pieces that can enable success. It’s the closest we’ve been to playoff ready as a team ever, since 2004. 

[robrob74]

6 hours ago, tmac70 said:

I am in the camp he did his job. For me as we don't know what went on behind close doors, the decision to hire Sutter has changed this club's idenity and culture. Tre is good at contracts, draft choices have been much bettter, he has improved at adding the right pieces, bonuses but thats your role as a GM. However, the pendulm shift doesn't happen with out Sutter, no matter how you paint this.  For me similar to Peeps, from the outside looking in, its the JG, MT , MAGS and Kylinton situations that require being dealt with.  The decision to hire Sutter and where that came from trumps everything else. This organization has been terrible at brining in below grade coaching hoping the talent on the ice succeeds. As fans we have seen it for decades it just nice to see them try a seasoned coach and the results it brought. 

I kind of think the depth guys they targeted last off-season were on Sutter. They’re Sutter guys. In every season offseason, BT was only ever able to sign players that were tweeners that were supposed to be good depth but might have extra to give without real evidence that they would. Ryan was decent. Hathaway was a good signing. Neal sucked, Raymond sucked, Brouwer sucked and all of the other reclamation projects. He’s been a bargain shopper until Sutter and I don’t know if Coleman also would’ve been a Sutter target. Ritchie is a tweeners but for some reason brings something they’ve liked.
 

the Lindholm/Hanifin deal could’ve also been a Peter’s add.  Intel. He’s good at listening to the ones who know. 
 

I guess he still needs to be able to make the deals. But something tells me Sutter contacted the new adds to let them know their roles and why they’d fit before signing. 

 

[conundrumed]

55 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I think it is kind of funny. Over the years I’d complain about the AHL team and not doing well, and a lot on here would point out that it wasn’t a big deal, but when it is going well, it’s a great thing. I just wonder what we are allowed to think? 
 

I am not saying I’m not happy with what the prospects are doing because I used to and still do believe that success down there might translate to winning here. Winning and having the taste for it can’t be undersold. You need to win to acquire the taste and the hate to lose. This is why I liked guys like M. Jordan. Winning is the most important.

 

i hope that BT didn’t mortgage the future with these trades. I think if we go deep they re-sign BT. If he’s out in the first round, he gutted the future and might not sign JG and can only sign MT to the qualifying offer, in which case he is forced to trade him. Then we’ve traded picks that would’ve helped in a rebuild, extending that process… 

 

but In saying that, I’m happy with the trades. We needed depth and it’s a lot better depth than last year. Too bad Monahan didn’t go on IR last year and Bennett moved up the lineup. I don’t know if SK would have taken Monahan instead of Gio. But having Bennett would be nice right now. 
 

although, I like the mix. I’ve liked what I’ve seen in Jarnkrok so far. Toffoli, had a good start, he does other things well but I’d like to see more? Maybe being moved up is good for him. Players go in and out of consistency and he does do the other stuff well. 

I'm certain that you've never seen me excited about our prospects. It's always been a black hole. Once we drafted Dube, Andersson, Kylington, I started hoping that we're finally getting guys we should. Guys like Baertschi, Poirier, Gawdin etc I was pretty whatever about. Even Mangiapane didn't excite me. I was pretty apathetic about the whole thing.

If Van took Tkachuk I wonder....if we took Juolevi over Chychrun/Keller I'd have been done. I didn't realize McAvoy's awesomeness at the time. It's always been a giant mess.

So it's not really what to think, so much as we've drafted a lot better, brought in goalie depth that we sadly lacked and overall have simply drafted much better. So I'm excited about what I see now whether or not they have a great record.

Compared to only a few short years ago when all I saw was junk.

So the, "well it's just the farm" is due to apathy. It was lousy.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

I think it is kind of funny. Over the years I’d complain about the AHL team and not doing well, and a lot on here would point out that it wasn’t a big deal, but when it is going well, it’s a great thing. I just wonder what we are allowed to think? 
 

 

Despite the record in the AHL, the Flames have graduated Mang, Dube, Andersson and Kylington from their AHL team.  Not to mention Ruzicka looks like a future option and they've also brought up options like Hathaway, Rittich or Gawdin in the past. Not to mention the flow of good coaches.  Despite the record the talent pipeline has been steady and good so that is why it wasn't a big deal. The only reason it's better now is all that would indicate is there is potential that talent pipeline could be even better. 

 

Can obviously believe whatever you want but iMO it's not a binary argument. AHL winning doesn't equally good, nor does losing in the AHL equal bad it matters more about the pipeline and if you feel that is good then the record should be secondary. What is impressive about the AHL this year is they are not carried by tweeners, they are carried by legit prospects the most important being Wolf. 

[sak22]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

I think it is kind of funny. Over the years I’d complain about the AHL team and not doing well, and a lot on here would point out that it wasn’t a big deal, but when it is going well, it’s a great thing. I just wonder what we are allowed to think? 

We're allowed to think whatever we want to think, people will agree or disagree its why we come here.  As far as the AHL goes there were years in the 2000's where they were winning but were only mediocre for developing, then around when the team went to Abbotsford it seemed that winning was the priority and development was secondary they did pretty good in the standings most years but were giving a lot of the prospects the backseat to career minor leaguers.  Since Treliving took over his main philosophy of the farm team is to get players ready to play in the NHL.  The results in Stockton haven't been overwhelming in his 8 years, but have graduated both Huska and MacLean into assistant coaches in the NHL and Andersson, Mangiapane, Kylington, Rittich, Dube and Hathaway have graduated into full time NHLers with Ruzicka getting an extended look this year.  What makes this year more special is that the results are there, and it's looking like several players can make the jump to the Flames in the next couple seasons.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

I think it is kind of funny. Over the years I’d complain about the AHL team and not doing well, and a lot on here would point out that it wasn’t a big deal, but when it is going well, it’s a great thing. I just wonder what we are allowed to think? 
 

I am not saying I’m not happy with what the prospects are doing because I used to and still do believe that success down there might translate to winning here. Winning and having the taste for it can’t be undersold. You need to win to acquire the taste and the hate to lose. This is why I liked guys like M. Jordan. Winning is the most important.

 

i hope that BT didn’t mortgage the future with these trades. I think if we go deep they re-sign BT. If he’s out in the first round, he gutted the future and might not sign JG and can only sign MT to the qualifying offer, in which case he is forced to trade him. Then we’ve traded picks that would’ve helped in a rebuild, extending that process… 

 

but In saying that, I’m happy with the trades. We needed depth and it’s a lot better depth than last year. Too bad Monahan didn’t go on IR last year and Bennett moved up the lineup. I don’t know if SK would have taken Monahan instead of Gio. But having Bennett would be nice right now. 
 

although, I like the mix. I’ve liked what I’ve seen in Jarnkrok so far. Toffoli, had a good start, he does other things well but I’d like to see more? Maybe being moved up is good for him. Players go in and out of consistency and he does do the other stuff well. 

 

We used to sign career AHL players to round out the farm, mostly because we had guys that didn't pan out or jumped into the NHL soon.  I mean less than 2 years in the AHL.  Nothing exciting there and nothing to hope for.  Compounded by the lean years of the idiot GM, the Burkie impact, and the years giving up a lot of picks for Hammy and Hanny.  

 

But I do think we have got to the point where we need guys to stay in the AHL because we have too good a team in the NHL.  More coming next year.  We still have a young NHL team by some standards, so we can afford to wait.  When they do get here, we will have to accept a minor trending down until they are comfortable.  Guys like Mackey and Valimaki will push people out, like 3rd pairing guys.  Ruzie, Pelts and maybe Zary are the next F wave.  They aren't blocked.  We will only use them if the are NHL calibre.

 

We gave up a lot in the 2022 draft, but one year isn't going to set us back that much.  Resolving the Monahan situation is key to success next year.  At least for keeping the best players from the current team.  

[cross16]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

All in to us doesn’t mean traded everything. I think he traded a lot to get the pieces that fit though. So if we don’t get passed the first round it’s a lot to pay. Like i said in my previous post, I liked the effort and adds, I’m just looking at it in the other perspective. There’s danger and it could be the future if we lose first round and Johnny doesn’t sign.
But I think we can win at least a round or two, and the 2nd or 3rd rounds depending on who we play and if there are injuries. But he’s done a lot to add pieces that can enable success. It’s the closest we’ve been to playoff ready as a team ever, since 2004. 

 

IMO if the Flames don't get out of the first round it shouldn't negatively reflect on Treliving. He did his job now it's up to the players to perform. 

 

What he paid to get there is no longer relevant I don't believe.  

[robrob74]

57 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

IMO if the Flames don't get out of the first round it shouldn't negatively reflect on Treliving. He did his job now it's up to the players to perform. 

 

What he paid to get there is no longer relevant I don't believe.  

i can agree with you, but at the same time, I think the arguments around the draft capital spent will be different if we do lose, for some fans. I think we know which ones.  

[robrob74]

@cross16

@conundrumed

@sak22

@travel_dude

 

those are all good points on the AHL comments. 
 

id like to hear more about Conundrum’S take on the previous drafts that you mentioned. What you thought of the players and who you thought could’ve been better alternatives?

 

It is great that some go to those jr games. I guess I could go to the Giants? Too bad they’ve moved out to Langley. 

[conundrumed]

Like Robert Thomas instead of Valimaki?lol

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Like Robert Thomas instead of Valimaki?lol

 

Really, Valimaki is an example of what can happen to a prospect with injuries.

The funny thing about Val is that last year he had 2 points less than Hanfin in 7 less games.

 

[robrob74]

That should have been a penalty 

[travel_dude]

20 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

That should have been a penalty 

 Wrong thread perhaps?  LOL

[jjgallow]

Fireable offense, IMHO.

 

Always afraid to make the unpopular and obviously necessary moves to ensure a strong future for the franchise.