Flames Defense

[robrob74]

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Or Edmonton? Or Buffalo? Or NJ? Or Ottawa?

You know as well as anyone that the tank to eventually succeed model is dicey at best. You get the best player for 3 yrs on an ELC, there's your window. Then he's going to need 12-15% of your cap. Now your window is closing. McDavid and Draisaitl easily compare to Crosby and Malkin. But it doesn't matter.

Scrapping everything is not a good plan. I know many want to see it, but in reality, it's a really piss-poor tactic.

Even Ovi didn't put the team on his back. It's easily argued Kuznetzov did just as much. A 26th oa.

Now if we can get over the silly mindset of "bpa-unless he's Russian", that could help a lot. Point's a 3rd rounder, Kucherov's a 2nd rder, Datsyuk was a 6th along with Markov in the same draft. Jamie Benn's a 5th rder. We can do this all day. Don't need to tank for a high pick to get a great player.

We picked Adam Fox...now we should just shoot pucks at his head...

 

ok, so then stop limiting our picks to the safe ones. We pick LW or LSCenter almost every time. Valamaki would be the outlier. We shoot for decent centers. Are we scouting the European leagues well enough when we miss out on a Kuznetsov or Kucherov or others like Pastranak? I get the pastranak was the Bennett draft, but if due diligence was done, maybe you trade into the later round to snag the pick, if you’re that high on a guy… pie in the sky what if. But you said it yourself, we missed out on Point and yet he played very close to Calgary so we should have known better. And they eyed Kucherov but gambled that he would be a later pick and chose Wotherspoon instead…

 

imagine, they almost gambled an extra round on Johnny and if we lost out on him where would we be now? Maybe better maybe worse. I mean maybe it means a few more years of losing because he was the catalyst of the offence on the team since Hudler left.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

ok, so then stop limiting our picks to the safe ones. We pick LW or LSCenter almost every time. Valamaki would be the outlier. We shoot for decent centers. Are we scouting the European leagues well enough when we miss out on a Kuznetsov or Kucherov or others like Pastranak? I get the pastranak was the Bennett draft, but if due diligence was done, maybe you trade into the later round to snag the pick, if you’re that high on a guy… pie in the sky what if. But you said it yourself, we missed out on Point and yet he played very close to Calgary so we should have known better. And they eyed Kucherov but gambled that he would be a later pick and chose Wotherspoon instead…

 

imagine, they almost gambled an extra round on Johnny and if we lost out on him where would we be now? Maybe better maybe worse. I mean maybe it means a few more years of losing because he was the catalyst of the offence on the team since Hudler left.

 

Kucherov was scouted by the Flames but for some reason Feaster decided to wait.

Gotta get Granlund and Wotherspoon....

 

You may not agree, but we are scouting better outsode the WHL.

Not every swing is a hit, especially when you have to wait till later rounds.

We have missed some guys but have giys that are not bad for the position drafted.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Kucherov was scouted by the Flames but for some reason Feaster decided to wait.

Gotta get Granlund and Wotherspoon....

 

You may not agree, but we are scouting better outsode the WHL.

Not every swing is a hit, especially when you have to wait till later rounds.

We have missed some guys but have giys that are not bad for the position drafted.

 

To be fair, that wasn't a Feaster call it was Button's. Feaster had almost no say over the draft he let the scouts do their work. 

 

the reason was that Kucherov was under contract to CSKA in Russia and it was not well known whether or not he ever planned to get out of that contract (I believe it was 2 more years).  Fair to criticize the risk tolerance of the Flames at the time but at the same time passing on a Russian player, again at that time, who also happened to be only slightly bigger than Gaudreau isn't the WTF decision it appears to be in hindsight. 

[jjgallow]

Well lol at least the Defense thread is active now.

 

Again, be it known that this thread was dead the entire summer while we debated Eichel, and when we did bump it, we only talked about forwards on it.

 

This will be quite relevant around trade deadline time.     Not that we exactly have expecations placed on us.  But the Flames also think the all they need to do with defence is say "common guys, remember defense".  Let's see how that goes.

[Horsman1]

13 hours ago, nevermissashift said:

conundrumed: LOL, Who is Adam Fox? What is ELC? What is Uber?

 

Those are the kind of stats we need to be reminded of = lousy odds. 

... and what a BORING 2 to 5 year GAMBLE with no team on the ice, and knowing they are throwing games. WHAT A DRAG! Not worth my time even watching, not to mention a sicK bit of sportsmanship. You think the org doesn't know that?! You think the org would survive in Calg? 

FLAMES TANK, NO TANKS!  

 

PS... and 1 player does not a team make (Connor, still yet to prove). 

 

don't they know.. it's the end of the world.. it ended when you said.. so long

 

 

[Horsman1]

3 hours ago, jjgallow said:

Well lol at least the Defense thread is active now.

 

Again, be it known that this thread was dead the entire summer while we debated Eichel, and when we did bump it, we only talked about forwards on it.

 

This will be quite relevant around trade deadline time.     Not that we exactly have expecations placed on us.  But the Flames also think the all they need to do with defence is say "common guys, remember defense".  Let's see how that goes.

i;ve always wondered who gives the parameters of skill set we want .. Is it the coach?? g.m?? head of scouting?? something seems missing

 

[conundrumed]

10 hours ago, Horsman1 said:

i;ve always wondered who gives the parameters of skill set we want .. Is it the coach?? g.m?? head of scouting?? something seems missing

 

Scouts are like the high school jocks that sit at one table in the high school cafeteria making fun of everyone else.

This is why they're wrong, a lot. They lead consensus. Yet they're too dumb to understand why it goes wrong.

They have a "pack-mentality". I'd love to be a director of scouting.lol

The riot act would be read. First order of business. I would be angry. A lot. They aren't very open-minded, more like high school jocks pretending to be smart.

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Scouts are like the high school jocks that sit at one table in the high school cafeteria making fun of everyone else.

This is why they're wrong, a lot. They lead consensus. Yet they're too dumb to understand why it goes wrong.

They have a "pack-mentality". I'd love to be a director of scouting.lol

The riot act would be read. First order of business. I would be angry. A lot. They aren't very open-minded, more like high school jocks pretending to be smart.

 

I have seen that some of the scouting agencies now hire millenials who have never played hockey and actually do writeups across hockey, baseball, basketball lol.   It won't be long before we start to shore up our defence and running out powerplays with point guards.

[zima]

On 9/11/2021 at 8:57 AM, robrob74 said:

sutter is going to wonder why Valamaki isn’t good enough because he’s going to be covering for EG all the time and failing to do what what he’s good at, thus stifling his offensive side. Sure Valamaki needs to play good D, but…

Sounds like we should put Val down and let Poirier play in the N and sit instead of Val sounds like they play the same way?

[robrob74]

18 hours ago, zima said:

Sounds like we should put Val down and let Poirier play in the N and sit instead of Val sounds like they play the same way?

 

ya, I am not sure. 
 

i think with Valamaki he had a bit of a developmental break and we are seeing it, due to his injuries. Hoping those injuries are past him and he gets back to developing.

[conundrumed]

56 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

ya, I am not sure. 
 

i think with Valamaki he had a bit of a developmental break and we are seeing it, due to his injuries. Hoping those injuries are past him and he gets back to developing.

He should be in line for some PP looks. Good vision, great passer.

[travel_dude]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

ya, I am not sure. 
 

i think with Valamaki he had a bit of a developmental break and we are seeing it, due to his injuries. Hoping those injuries are past him and he gets back to developing.

 

Not all players have a llinear devlopment.

I think Valimaki was NHL ready last year, but like Ras was played with the wrong D.

He should have played with Tanev.

Hanifin with Ras.

Gio with Stone or Kylington or Nesterov or Mackey.

But that was determined by minutes to be played.

 

Sure, there are many ways to use Zadorov.

Bruiser for Ras.

Big body for Tanev.

Two bruisers with Gudbranson.

 

I would prefer the following:

Hanifin-Ras

Valimaki-Tanev

Zadorov-Gudbranson/Mackey

 

I'm a bit leery with that last pair, but I just don't know how to use Guddy.

He's not anything more than a 3rd pairing guy.

I don't think it helps Valimaki at all.

Could be wrong, but I just don't see it. 

 

[jjgallow]

28 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Not all players have a llinear devlopment.

I think Valimaki was NHL ready last year, but like Ras was played with the wrong D.

He should have played with Tanev.

Hanifin with Ras.

Gio with Stone or Kylington or Nesterov or Mackey.

But that was determined by minutes to be played.

 

Sure, there are many ways to use Zadorov.

Bruiser for Ras.

Big body for Tanev.

Two bruisers with Gudbranson.

 

I would prefer the following:

Hanifin-Ras

Valimaki-Tanev

Zadorov-Gudbranson/Mackey

 

I'm a bit leery with that last pair, but I just don't know how to use Guddy.

He's not anything more than a 3rd pairing guy.

I don't think it helps Valimaki at all.

Could be wrong, but I just don't see it. 

 

 

I would agree with this lineup and I would agree that Ras is ready.   If anyone is going to Really surprise this year I think it would be him.

 

Saying that, I don't think even a best case scenario is enough.  But it's something.

[sak22]

 

Too bad at 24 yrs old he is past his prime, and undrafted obviously means no good.

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, sak22 said:

 

Too bad at 24 yrs old he is past his prime, and undrafted obviously means no good.

 

Too bad 24 year old Dmen shouldn't be in the NHL according to Sutter.

[nevermissashift]

Haz der flams gaught eny super tuff dee men diss yeer? Kick butt rib bustin concussion kind? 

[conundrumed]

8 hours ago, nevermissashift said:

Haz der flams gaught eny super tuff dee men diss yeer? Kick butt rib bustin concussion kind? 

Kinvall can be a suspension call up.lol

[sak22]

13 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Too bad 24 year old Dmen shouldn't be in the NHL according to Sutter.

His track record suggests he's had young defensemen at every stop and given prominent roles to young defensemen. every stop.

[robrob74]

46 minutes ago, sak22 said:

His track record suggests he's had young defensemen at every stop and given prominent roles to young defensemen. every stop.

I doughty it?

[sak22]

2 hours ago, robrob74 said:

I doughty it?

I've had phaneuf of this discussion

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, sak22 said:

I've had phaneuf of this discussion

In Lewis of your comment, We Muzzin talk about this anymore.

[jjgallow]

WhyNot?

[robrob74]

Voynov gonna serve Martinez?

[nevermissashift]

Wutz Bufflin doon? Iz he too olt? Yew no yew git weeker eech day after 24.

[sak22]

On 9/18/2021 at 11:37 PM, robrob74 said:

Voynov gonna serve Martinez?

No more inter-ference, We need a fresh stuart.  Lets just enjoy the commodores