Flames Defense

[cross16]

Normally I don't care about the Worlds but I think TJ is one of the players who could have really benefited from it. Maybe was never on the radar but I think it would have helped him if he was. 

 

 

[travel_dude]

5 hours ago, cross16 said:

Normally I don't care about the Worlds but I think TJ is one of the players who could have really benefited from it. Maybe was never on the radar but I think it would have helped him if he was. 

 

 

 

I don;t think that Brodie cares much about hockey once the season is over.  He's declined every time there has even been the posibility of an offer to play.

[redfire11]

I think Brodie was fighting too many "demons" this last season. I predict a new attitude along with a new coaching staff Brodie this coming season will be pushing norris CANDIDATE territory. 14 goals 32 assists +9. 

[conundrumed]

On 4/9/2018 at 8:13 PM, travel_dude said:

 

I don;t think that Brodie cares much about hockey once the season is over.  He's declined every time there has even been the posibility of an offer to play.

Whaaat?

[conundrumed]

On 4/9/2018 at 2:42 PM, cross16 said:

Normally I don't care about the Worlds but I think TJ is one of the players who could have really benefited from it. Maybe was never on the radar but I think it would have helped him if he was. 

 

 

Just watching Reaves' hit, I think I did too, lol.

[The_People1]

On 4/9/2018 at 0:42 PM, cross16 said:

Normally I don't care about the Worlds but I think TJ is one of the players who could have really benefited from it. Maybe was never on the radar but I think it would have helped him if he was. 

 

 

 

Let's trade Brodie.

[LouCifer]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Let's trade Brodie.

 

And sign Reaves

[420since1974]

Brodie, Hamonic, and Stone will all be UFAs at the end of 2019/2020.

They'll all be 30 years of age, or very close to it.

I'm going to guess that only one will be re-signed (Brodie or Hamonic), and that the other two will be traded no later than their final season's TDL.

I expect that two of Andersson, Kylington, and Valamaki will be full-time Flame's defense-men by that time.

[robrob74]

14 hours ago, 420since1974 said:

Brodie, Hamonic, and Stone will all be UFAs at the end of 2019/2020.

They'll all be 30 years of age, or very close to it.

I'm going to guess that only one will be re-signed (Brodie or Hamonic), and that the other two will be traded no later than their final season's TDL.

I expect that two of Andersson, Kylington, and Valamaki will be full-time Flame's defense-men by that time.

 

Id hope it’s Hamonic, mostly due to what we paid for him, but also the intangibles he brings that we don’t really have on the team other than Gio, Stone and Prout. But Stone won’t be retained unless he improves a lot. Maybe the coming competition will make them all work harder and improve to make the decision that much harder.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

Id hope it’s Hamonic, mostly due to what we paid for him, but also the intangibles he brings that we don’t really have on the team other than Gio, Stone and Prout. But Stone won’t be retained unless he improves a lot. Maybe the coming competition will make them all work harder and improve to make the decision that much harder.

All 3 of Andersson, Valimaki and Kylington should be full time by the 20/21 season. I expect Andersson to make the team this season however this leaves the team without any quality RHSD in the minors. This scenario becomes much clearer if they move Stone because if they don't we likely see Andersson and Valimaki as a pairing in the AHL to start the season.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

Id hope it’s Hamonic, mostly due to what we paid for him, but also the intangibles he brings that we don’t really have on the team other than Gio, Stone and Prout. But Stone won’t be retained unless he improves a lot. Maybe the coming competition will make them all work harder and improve to make the decision that much harder.

 

I don't care what the cost was, but who brings the bigger return if we trade one of them.

I tend to agree about Hamonic being a guy you would want to keep.

Tough as nails.

Wlll step in when somebody pushes around our guys.

 

Last season was not a good one for him, but I tend to chalk it up to playing for a new team and coaches that weren't the greatest for D-zone coverage, as well as a goalie that limited your options for zone exits.  He can improve.  He's be with a player who understands his role.  I see a big turnaround for Hamonic this year.

[7wit]

Well, 9 GA in the first 2 games. Let’s hope it improves. So far it looks wildly inconsistent, but you have new players, an injury, a new coach... takes time to put it all together. Do we expect to see Andersson and Rittich next game?

[ABC923]

Andersson yes, Rittich not yet.  

 

Havent been able to watch the games, but it seems like defense has actually been pretty decent.  Not many shots allowed, chipping in offensively, etc.  Hanifin sounds like he is adjusting pretty well too.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, ABC923 said:

Andersson yes, Rittich not yet.  

 

Havent been able to watch the games, but it seems like defense has actually been pretty decent.  Not many shots allowed, chipping in offensively, etc.  Hanifin sounds like he is adjusting pretty well too.

 

I don’t think that it is necessarily that defence has been good in our own zone though. We play that possession game like last year and the other team waits for the mistakes. They’ve been executing on almost every mistake. 

 

Our possession game is really good, but the other team just makes sure they limit high danger chances and we get a lot of shots from around the perimeter. 

 

I think the the amount of time that we have the puck lulls Smith to sleep.

 

it was the same way for us last year, and the way BP teams played in Carolina. A lot of time with the puck, but a lot of goals scored against.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

I don’t think that it is necessarily that defence has been good in our own zone though. We play that possession game like last year and the other team waits for the mistakes. They’ve been executing on almost every mistake. 

 

Our possession game is really good, but the other team just makes sure they limit high danger chances and we get a lot of shots from around the perimeter. 

 

I think the the amount of time that we have the puck lulls Smith to sleep.

 

it was the same way for us last year, and the way BP teams played in Carolina. A lot of time with the puck, but a lot of goals scored against.

 

In 2 games Smith has given up 8 goals on 42 shots.  Last year, he gave up 8 in 160 shots over 4 games.  21 shots per game versus 40 shots per game average?

Sounds like better defense.  

[Thebrewcrew]

Curious what happens on Tuesday in Nashville. I’d like to see Andersson in but I expect Peters will stick with the “winning lineup” Tuesday. 

[ABC923]

We rag on our defense too much I think, and under appreciate just how bad we were at finishing last season.  Here are the top five teams from last season for generating high danger scoring chances at 5v5, vs how they fared in giving up high danger scoring chances.

1. Rangers (30th) 

2. Oilers (28th)

3. Penguins (25th)

4. Flames (8th)

5. Hurricanes (18th)

 

So the Flames were one of the best teams in generating high danger chances, AND one of the best at limiting them.  In fact, the Flames had the second best ratio in the league last year at 5v5.  So what gives?  Here of the five teams with the worst sh% in high danger chances last season.  League average was held by the Rangers at 12.65%.

1. Coyotes (10.18%)

2. Penguins (10.51%)

3. Flames (11.17%)

4. Sabres (11.19%)

5. Canadiens (11.20%)

The flames also had the tenth worst Sv% in high danger chances.  Not catastrophic, but still points to goaltending rather than poor defense.  If the flames were average last season, they would have potted between 11 and 12 more goals through the season while preventing 3-4 goals.

 

Where things change is on special teams.  The flames were the second most penalized team last season, so unsurprisingly we gave up more high danger scoring chances than most (4th most).  That said, we still gave up fewer pp goals on the year than average, so we got decent goaltending and defense in that game state.  The powerplay on the other hand was atrocious.  Surprisingly, we generated the second most high danger chances on the PP in the league.  Probably because we had more time to generate them, as we couldn't score (penalties end once a goal is scored, so not scoring extends the PP time).  We had the third worst sh% on the PP, and the seventh worst high danger sh%.

 

Long Story short, statistics say our defense is actually pretty good.  We give up fewer chances and high danger chances than most teams.  Our offense was also decent at generating chances.  But the end of the day, it's goals that count, and the flames wiffed on those chances at a much higher rate than most other teams.

 

 

[kehatch]

20 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

In 2 games Smith has given up 8 goals on 42 shots.  Last year, he gave up 8 in 160 shots over 4 games.  21 shots per game versus 40 shots per game average?

Sounds like better defense.  

 

When every mistake goes in the net it makes the team look bad. If Smith makes a few more saves nobody is focused on the mistakes and is instead talking about how the Flames limited shots and kept down chances. But they went in the net so we watch four replays of our defence messing up and that is the focal point. 

 

The Flames do need to clean it up a bit. Stone really struggled game 1 and Prout was a liability game 2. But overall the Flames have done a good job keeping down the chances and D-zone time. Particularly in game 2. Our goalie has by and far been the weak link. 

[cross16]

6 hours ago, ABC923 said:

We rag on our defense too much I think, and under appreciate just how bad we were at finishing last season.  Here are the top five teams from last season for generating high danger scoring chances at 5v5, vs how they fared in giving up high danger scoring chances.

1. Rangers (30th) 

2. Oilers (28th)

3. Penguins (25th)

4. Flames (8th)

5. Hurricanes (18th)

 

So the Flames were one of the best teams in generating high danger chances, AND one of the best at limiting them.  In fact, the Flames had the second best ratio in the league last year at 5v5.  So what gives?  Here of the five teams with the worst sh% in high danger chances last season.  League average was held by the Rangers at 12.65%.

1. Coyotes (10.18%)

2. Penguins (10.51%)

3. Flames (11.17%)

4. Sabres (11.19%)

5. Canadiens (11.20%)

The flames also had the tenth worst Sv% in high danger chances.  Not catastrophic, but still points to goaltending rather than poor defense.  If the flames were average last season, they would have potted between 11 and 12 more goals through the season while preventing 3-4 goals.

 

Where things change is on special teams.  The flames were the second most penalized team last season, so unsurprisingly we gave up more high danger scoring chances than most (4th most).  That said, we still gave up fewer pp goals on the year than average, so we got decent goaltending and defense in that game state.  The powerplay on the other hand was atrocious.  Surprisingly, we generated the second most high danger chances on the PP in the league.  Probably because we had more time to generate them, as we couldn't score (penalties end once a goal is scored, so not scoring extends the PP time).  We had the third worst sh% on the PP, and the seventh worst high danger sh%.

 

Long Story short, statistics say our defense is actually pretty good.  We give up fewer chances and high danger chances than most teams.  Our offense was also decent at generating chances.  But the end of the day, it's goals that count, and the flames wiffed on those chances at a much higher rate than most other teams.

 

 

 

Very well said. I agree that has the Flames even had an average season offensively we would not talk about the D so much. Too many people see things in black and white when the picture is for more complex. Breakdowns are going to happen every game it's just a fact but the standard on here seems to be thst a few breakdowns equals crappy d. Even the best defensive teams will likely have multiple d breakdowns in a game.  Mistakes happen. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, kehatch said:

 

When every mistake goes in the net it makes the team look bad. If Smith makes a few more saves nobody is focused on the mistakes and is instead talking about how the Flames limited shots and kept down chances. But they went in the net so we watch four replays of our defence messing up and that is the focal point. 

 

The Flames do need to clean it up a bit. Stone really struggled game 1 and Prout was a liability game 2. But overall the Flames have done a good job keeping down the chances and D-zone time. Particularly in game 2. Our goalie has by and far been the weak link. 

 

I agree and think that we've actually controlled both games.  I rag on Prout for being the choice in a 5-3, but it really didn;t matter.  A goal was bound to be scored with a goalie playing iffy.  Playing flat-footed will make your defense look worse than it it is.  The Pettersen goal caught Prout looking.  

 

I will say this.  Having a rookie in two games and Stone playing as a 3/4 and Prout as a 6, we still did well to control the play.  Valimaki is already looking like he will stay the year.  Seeing as we gave up Kulak, there is probably no choice right now short of a trade/waiver pickup.  Andersson should get the start this week.  That should help stabilize the D against a bunch of good teams.  Would prefer they pair him with Hanifin to spread out the rookies. 

[JTech780]

When you take a look at our D core it really shouldn't be surprising that we are struggling defensively.

 

We have 2 rookies playing key minutes in Andersson and Valimaki and as good as they have been, they are going to make mistakes and they are going to struggle defensively. Both tend to be a little over aggressive in trying to create offense at times and either pinch at the wrong times or leave the defensive zone trying to join the rush before the puck has cleared. 

 

We also have a 21 year old Hanifin playing 2nd pairing minutes, it's his first year in Calgary and he is still learning the game. There are going to be ups and downs with him.

 

Then you look at the vets in the lineup Brodie isn't overly strong in his own zone, and Stone is what he is a 6th defenseman who isn't fleet of foot and is limited with what he can do with the puck.

 

As it stands right now our defense isn't built to play in our own end it's built to play in the other teams zone, the problem is we can't get the puck going the other way because we bleed scoring chances when the puck does get to our own end. 

 

This team needs Hamonic back in the lineup just to get a stabilizing factor on the back end and they need more help from the forwards in the defensive zone.

[cross16]

3 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

When you take a look at our D core it really shouldn't be surprising that we are struggling defensively.

 

We have 2 rookies playing key minutes in Andersson and Valimaki and as good as they have been, they are going to make mistakes and they are going to struggle defensively. Both tend to be a little over aggressive in trying to create offense at times and either pinch at the wrong times or leave the defensive zone trying to join the rush before the puck has cleared. 

 

We also have a 21 year old Hanifin playing 2nd pairing minutes, it's his first year in Calgary and he is still learning the game. There are going to be ups and downs with him.

 

Then you look at the vets in the lineup Brodie isn't overly strong in his own zone, and Stone is what he is a 6th defenseman who isn't fleet of foot and is limited with what he can do with the puck.

 

As it stands right now our defense isn't built to play in our own end it's built to play in the other teams zone, the problem is we can't get the puck going the other way because we bleed scoring chances when the puck does get to our own end. 

 

This team needs Hamonic back in the lineup just to get a stabilizing factor on the back end and they need more help from the forwards in the defensive zone.

 

I agree with pretty much all of this, but I also think it's not just the D core too it's team D. I don't see a lot of forwards very engaged in the D zone, and a lot of soft clearing attempts or sometimes flying the zone too quick and not giving the D man an outlet pass. Outside of the Backlund line, Flames need more help from their forwards in the d zone too. Team has done a good job thinking offense and that makes sense given their season last year but they've just lost their details on the defensive side which is not all the surprising. 

[JTech780]

1 minute ago, cross16 said:

 

I agree with pretty much all of this, but I also think it's not just the D core too it's team D. I don't see a lot of forwards very engaged in the D zone, and a lot of soft clearing attempts or sometimes flying the zone too quick and not giving the D man an outlet pass. Outside of the Backlund line, Flames need more help from their forwards in the d zone too. Team has done a good job thinking offense and that makes sense given their season last year but they've just lost their details on the defensive side which is not all the surprising. 

 

Oh absolutely, we need more from the forwards defensively for sure especially with this young of a D core.

 

I haven't really seen Monahan grow his defensive game to where he is up there with the top centers in the league, in fact at times he can be very one dimensional, and if this team wants to be competitive in the post season he needs to be more of a two way threat.

 

One forward that I don't think gets enough credit for how good he is defensively is Bennett. He is very dogged on the puck this year especially, but he always comes back hard and is willing to battle for pucks. With our depth on the wing this year I do wonder if this is the year to let him center his own line with skilled players and let him be a Kadri type center.

[travel_dude]

I think JH is working on his D-zone game.  HE makes smart plays, but he's just too small to contain anyone.

He often lets players get position on him, but is looking big picture.  HE's nit going to be able to get the puck out from the boards if he's being hammered there.

[CheersMan]

Oliver Kylington is showing well at times. The way he skates and razzal dazzals in traffic with the puck at times reminds me of Scott Neidermayer and Erik Karlsson. Last evening vs Jets there were at least two occasions where he reminded me of such players. At 21.5yrs, the sky is the limit for this kid. With Hanifin, Valimaki, Andersson and now Kylington, our defence is shaping up nicely for natural progression within the Org as our veteran dmen age. I think our defense is in fine shape.