Flames Defense

[JTech780]

13 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Pretty minute on Shinkaruk (who is going to command upwards of 6.5-7million as a FA) but I do think Stone is a real possiblity. I see Stone similar to Cody Franson in that I don't think the league will compeltely buy him into him as a top 4 blueliner despite some advanced stats being in his favor. He is also coming off a major knee injury so there may be a possiblity that he could be had on a shorter term deal for 4mill or less and with Treivling and Maloney here, maybe they work the familiary concept. He is a great fit for what they need.

 

I personally think Brodie is taking too much heat from fans this year. Sure he was terrible for the first month or so but since the pairings were solidifed he's been playing very well IMO. Could play better yes, but for a veteran dman to be learning a new side, learning new coach/new system and doing it with a pretty so/so defensive partner I think more focus should be on the positives with Brodie and not the negatives. Too early for me to say he has to be a Right side dman next year. 

 

What would it take to get Stone for the remainder of this year? I think he would really solidify the pairings as we make a push for the playoffs. He would give Brodie some stability on the 2nd pairing.

 

I have always questioned Brodie's hockey IQ, he has a ton of tools that make up for his inability to think the game at times. He still tries to force plays that aren't there, take shots where there isn't shooting lanes, make passes in high risk areas. His skating ability masks a lot of it, and playing with Gio covered up a lot of things as well, but playing with lesser talent kind of shows his weaknesses.

[cross16]

19 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

What would it take to get Stone for the remainder of this year? I think he would really solidify the pairings as we make a push for the playoffs. He would give Brodie some stability on the 2nd pairing.

 

I have always questioned Brodie's hockey IQ, he has a ton of tools that make up for his inability to think the game at times. He still tries to force plays that aren't there, take shots where there isn't shooting lanes, make passes in high risk areas. His skating ability masks a lot of it, and playing with Gio covered up a lot of things as well, but playing with lesser talent kind of shows his weaknesses.

 

I think something along the lines of Shinkaruk and a 2nd/3rd rounder. ie a younger prospect/roster player (that they wouldn't have to protect) plus a pick in the 2nd or 3rd round range depending on how his season goes and how the interest league wide is. I view him in the same light as guys like Polak and Liles who moved last year for around that cost and a step down from Kris Russell who obviously got more. He'd have to really pick up his play to approach Russell territory IMO. I don't think ever team is going to consider him a true/legit top 4 guy as he is more of a bubble top 4 guy IMO. I agree though, the fit is great.

 

I don't quite see it that way as I think Brodie has a very high hockey iQ i just think he is a risk taker and he likes to create plays. Brodie in junior was a very high end offensive player and his ability to create plays is what jumped off the page. I'm actualy impressed he has become the defensive dman he is becuase when I saw him in junior I saw more of a pure offensive guy. I agree to a certain extent that Gio covered up some of that but I think the bigger issue is when you have a dman that is learning a new side, new partner, new coach etc you tend to go back to your old habits and try to hard.  

[MAC331]

24 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

What would it take to get Stone for the remainder of this year? I think he would really solidify the pairings as we make a push for the playoffs. He would give Brodie some stability on the 2nd pairing.

 

I have always questioned Brodie's hockey IQ, he has a ton of tools that make up for his inability to think the game at times. He still tries to force plays that aren't there, take shots where there isn't shooting lanes, make passes in high risk areas. His skating ability masks a lot of it, and playing with Gio covered up a lot of things as well, but playing with lesser talent kind of shows his weaknesses.

BT might try for Stone at the TDL but their is no urgency. I agree with your assessment of Brodie although he has got better with experience. Wideman and him haven't been terrible but you kind of hold your breath for the next gaff by either one. I like him on the LS and my hope is BT can find him a better partner like Stone.

[JTech780]

20 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

I think something along the lines of Shinkaruk and a 2nd/3rd rounder. ie a younger prospect/roster player (that they wouldn't have to protect) plus a pick in the 2nd or 3rd round range depending on how his season goes and how the interest league wide is. I view him in the same light as guys like Polak and Liles who moved last year for around that cost and a step down from Kris Russell who obviously got more. He'd have to really pick up his play to approach Russell territory IMO. I don't think ever team is going to consider him a true/legit top 4 guy as he is more of a bubble top 4 guy IMO. I agree though, the fit is great.

 

I don't quite see it that way as I think Brodie has a very high hockey iQ i just think he is a risk taker and he likes to create plays. Brodie in junior was a very high end offensive player and his ability to create plays is what jumped off the page. I'm actualy impressed he has become the defensive dman he is becuase when I saw him in junior I saw more of a pure offensive guy. I agree to a certain extent that Gio covered up some of that but I think the bigger issue is when you have a dman that is learning a new side, new partner, new coach etc you tend to go back to your old habits and try to hard.  

 

See I don't think Brodie has played much different this year compared to previous years, he just doesn't have Gio covering up for him this year. I don't see high end offensive ability with Brodie and I think he would be far more effective if he played a safer offensive game. If there isn't a shooting lane just throw it into the corner instead of shooting it off the wingers shin pads. One scout described Brodie has having tunel vision when he gets in the offensive zone.

[MAC331]

16 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

 

See I don't think Brodie has played much different this year compared to previous years, he just doesn't have Gio covering up for him this year. I don't see high end offensive ability with Brodie and I think he would be far more effective if he played a safer offensive game. If there isn't a shooting lane just throw it into the corner instead of shooting it off the wingers shin pads. One scout described Brodie has having tunel vision when he gets in the offensive zone.

I know what you are saying here and have noticed a real reluctance to shoot when he does have a good shot. This usually indicates the player is fighting his own confidence and that could be the changes. Brodie is very capable and I think his play is improving but not the greatest pairing when both could use the "covering up" aspect by their partner. Giordano is just as bad for shooting into a defenders shin pads, maybe this is where Brodie picked it up. LOL

[flames for life]

I struggle to accept the flak that Brode is taking.  I recall when he was placed with Bowmeester, he actually appeared to be the better player.  Nobody questioned his hockey IQ then.  Even now, when we are talking of stabilizing a struggling player, the two defencemen mentioned are always Gio and Bodie.   He's like the Swiss army knife of the Flames defence;  used when a specific job is needed, or always on hand for another job.  Keep in mind that neither He nor Gio is playing the game as they had been the previous 2 years; hence, their numbers won't  be the same.  BH's expectation of the defensive game is not the same as GG's.  If Bodie is usually put with a partner that needs stabilizing, or a solid back up, how could we ever expect Brodie to ever do anything more than what he is doing right now.  Half of his game is ensuring that his partner's not going to screw up and having his back if he does.  as with any other human, he is going to make mistakes, but I think he is playing the game well with the hand he's been dealt.

[cross16]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

 

See I don't think Brodie has played much different this year compared to previous years, he just doesn't have Gio covering up for him this year. I don't see high end offensive ability with Brodie and I think he would be far more effective if he played a safer offensive game. If there isn't a shooting lane just throw it into the corner instead of shooting it off the wingers shin pads. One scout described Brodie has having tunel vision when he gets in the offensive zone.

 

I get part of what you are saying and don't disagree with all of it but I do think Brodie has struggled a fair bit to start the year. We've seen him play with other partners before, not just Gio, and look much better. I do get it's not the massive drop off some people are arguing so I see wehre you are coming from but I so think for the first month of the season he was pretty bad but the last month he's been very good, IMO. 

 

I dont' disagree he can still do things like that and simplify his game more and that can come with future learning. I think its easy to forget that he only has 3 full NHL season (excluding lockout) under his belt so its not like he can't get better. But this year I think you've seen alot of overthinking in his game and not just reacting, which is what has made him so good the last couple seasons. 

[kehatch]

I don't understand why people suggest Brodie doesn't have high end offensive skills. He doesn't have a great shot, but he is an elite passed and puck mover. The guy put up 40 points in each of the last two season, last season he put up 45 in 70 games and was fifth in team scoring (second in the NHL for even strength assists among D). 

 

He has struggled this season. Part of it I think is the system. Part of it is playing on the left side. Some if it is being stuck with Wideman. Maybe he is being impacted by personal issues as some have indicated.  But I am confident he will turn it around at some point.  

[JTech780]

After watching Philippe Myers in a couple WJC pre tournament games, I wonder if Calgary's management team is regretting not signing him after attending development camp a few years back. He left our camp and went to Philly's development camp and they promptly signed him.

 

It sure would be nice to have another defenseman in the mold of Dougie Hamilton.

[MAC331]

On ‎2016‎-‎12‎-‎13 at 5:53 PM, kehatch said:

I don't understand why people suggest Brodie doesn't have high end offensive skills. He doesn't have a great shot, but he is an elite passed and puck mover. The guy put up 40 points in each of the last two season, last season he put up 45 in 70 games and was fifth in team scoring (second in the NHL for even strength assists among D). 

 

He has struggled this season. Part of it I think is the system. Part of it is playing on the left side. Some if it is being stuck with Wideman. Maybe he is being impacted by personal issues as some have indicated.  But I am confident he will turn it around at some point.  

I think Brodie has been getting much better over the last few weeks. He isn't one I worry about to much just wish he would shoot more when there is a shot there rather than look to pass off. In watching SJ last night their defensemen are always throwing the puck at the net because they know their forwards are working down the lanes. We need more of this action and it starts with the defensemen.

[TheFan99]

On 2016-12-12 at 9:39 AM, JTech780 said:

 

What would it take to get Stone for the remainder of this year? I think he would really solidify the pairings as we make a push for the playoffs. He would give Brodie some stability on the 2nd pairing.

 

I have always questioned Brodie's hockey IQ, he has a ton of tools that make up for his inability to think the game at times. He still tries to force plays that aren't there, take shots where there isn't shooting lanes, make passes in high risk areas. His skating ability masks a lot of it, and playing with Gio covered up a lot of things as well, but playing with lesser talent kind of shows his weaknesses.

TJ is having in off year so far. It happens in the pros where it's tiresome to be consistent. I guess he's finally hit his ceiling? Off years happen?

[TheFan99]

11 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I think Brodie has been getting much better over the last few weeks. He isn't one I worry about to much just wish he would shoot more when there is a shot there rather than look to pass off. In watching SJ last night their defensemen are always throwing the puck at the net because they know their forwards are working down the lanes. We need more of this action and it starts with the defensemen.

In recent years he's used his skating to negate offensive pushes from other teams? Give him the benefit of the doubt. He's human maybe has issues outside of the game? Dmen this year don't seem as involved as last year. I agree would be nice to see them push more offensively.

[TheFan99]

46 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

After watching Philippe Myers in a couple WJC pre tournament games, I wonder if Calgary's management team is regretting not signing him after attending development camp a few years back. He left our camp and went to Philly's development camp and they promptly signed him.

 

It sure would be nice to have another defenseman in the mold of Dougie Hamilton.

The mould of DH would add more team salary to the Defense. Are we strapped for money on defense? Would be a huge beneficial element though.

[TheFan99]

On 2016-12-12 at 9:20 AM, cross16 said:

 

Pretty minute on Shinkaruk (who is going to command upwards of 6.5-7million as a FA) but I do think Stone is a real possiblity. I see Stone similar to Cody Franson in that I don't think the league will compeltely buy him into him as a top 4 blueliner despite some advanced stats being in his favor. He is also coming off a major knee injury so there may be a possiblity that he could be had on a shorter term deal for 4mill or less and with Treivling and Maloney here, maybe they work the familiary concept. He is a great fit for what they need.

 

I personally think Brodie is taking too much heat from fans this year. Sure he was terrible for the first month or so but since the pairings were solidifed he's been playing very well IMO. Could play better yes, but for a veteran dman to be learning a new side, learning new coach/new system and doing it with a pretty so/so defensive partner I think more focus should be on the positives with Brodie and not the negatives. Too early for me to say he has to be a Right side dman next year. 

Shinkaruk getting 6.5 a year? 

[TheFan99]

On 2016-12-13 at 5:53 PM, kehatch said:

I don't understand why people suggest Brodie doesn't have high end offensive skills. He doesn't have a great shot, but he is an elite passed and puck mover. The guy put up 40 points in each of the last two season, last season he put up 45 in 70 games and was fifth in team scoring (second in the NHL for even strength assists among D). 

 

He has struggled this season. Part of it I think is the system. Part of it is playing on the left side. Some if it is being stuck with Wideman. Maybe he is being impacted by personal issues as some have indicated.  But I am confident he will turn it around at some point.  

I agree off years happen. He deserves the benefit of the doubt. It's beyond me how NHL pros put their issues in life to the side and be consistent? 

[MAC331]

12 hours ago, TheFan99 said:

In recent years he's used his skating to negate offensive pushes from other teams? Give him the benefit of the doubt. He's human maybe has issues outside of the game? Dmen this year don't seem as involved as last year. I agree would be nice to see them push more offensively.

I think good defensemen pick their spots for adding to the offense. GG has them playing a smart positional system, the recent lapses have been from a lack of discipline. Wideman as an example should be taking less chances to create offense because he is to slow to get himself back into position. I would say even Giordano has lost a step or two and needs to play smarter positionally but he is very good at picking his spots offensively. Brodie and Hamilton should be the movers and shakers to create more offense from the back end and have been. Even Engelland with his experience has been good at picking his spots to push some offense and always seems to get back in good time. The weal links IMO are Jokipakka because he is learning and Wideman when he gets running around trying to do to much at both ends.

[cross16]

15 hours ago, TheFan99 said:

Shinkaruk getting 6.5 a year? 

 

Sorry, meant to say Kevin Shattenkirk. 

[TheFan99]

7 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

Sorry, meant to say Kevin Shattenkirk. 

Oh ok I was kind of wondering there lol!! KS will get those dollars for sure.

[TheFan99]

10 hours ago, MAC331 said:

I think good defensemen pick their spots for adding to the offense. GG has them playing a smart positional system, the recent lapses have been from a lack of discipline. Wideman as an example should be taking less chances to create offense because he is to slow to get himself back into position. I would say even Giordano has lost a step or two and needs to play smarter positionally but he is very good at picking his spots offensively. Brodie and Hamilton should be the movers and shakers to create more offense from the back end and have been. Even Engelland with his experience has been good at picking his spots to push some offense and always seems to get back in good time. The weal links IMO are Jokipakka because he is learning and Wideman when he gets running around trying to do to much at both ends.

Gio does look a step behind this year. I agree about DW too. Might of been why GG made him a healthy scratch a bit ago? DW doesn't even know who too, hit besides poor linesman lol! had to say it.

[kehatch]

Grossman (on paper) appears to be one of the worst players on his team in the Swedish Hockey League. I am still not sure how the coaches played this dude for 4 games on the NHL. Just an interesting tidbit that doesn't impact the team going forward. 

[AlbertaBoy12]

2 hours ago, kehatch said:

Grossman (on paper) appears to be one of the worst players on his team in the Swedish Hockey League. I am still not sure how the coaches played this dude for 4 games on the NHL. Just an interesting tidbit that doesn't impact the team going forward. 

I have a feeling they made a deal with him that if they signed him, he would get in games I don't think it had anything to do with the coaching staff.

[AlbertaBoy12]

Just an interesting article I found linked on flames nation in the comments, according to a new advanced stats metric gio is #3 in the league for D men and gaudreau is in the top 10 where as corsi isent so happy with them, an interesting read for everyone, dont know if I agree with him on russell though.

 

http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/analytics-expert-says-kris-russell-of-edmonton-oilers-is-underrated-and-one-of-nhls-top-defensive-d-men

[robrob74]

I think I can get on a lot of what the article is saying. I always had a problem with the shots for against argument most anal-ytics cling to.

 

Russell is a decent D. When paired with Wideman, what do you expect? Plus, remember the first year he was in Calgary? We suffered really bad without him and then he came off injury and there was a noticeable difference. I think he is tops, a #4 D guy. But he'd be a great #5... but he will probably get paid as a #4... 

[The_People1]

On 1/1/2017 at 10:46 AM, kehatch said:

Grossman (on paper) appears to be one of the worst players on his team in the Swedish Hockey League. I am still not sure how the coaches played this dude for 4 games on the NHL. Just an interesting tidbit that doesn't impact the team going forward. 

 

I believe you said something along the lines of "don't be afraid of PTOs, they don't mean anything."

 

I'm going to be afraid of PTOs next season.  Thanks.

[Carty]

Hamilton is tied with Tkachuk for most assists (19), leads with 4 game-winning goals and 128 shots...   4th in scoring with 7 goals and 26 points...   13 points in the last 14 games...