Flames Defense

[Thebrewcrew]

I think Kylington's time with the Flames is done. I think he's either a piece to get a deal across the finish line, or you're talking about swapping him for another young player looking for a change. Mason Appleton, Joey Anderson come to mind

 

I could definitely see Hanifin becoming available, but it creates a hole. You'd need 2 top 4 D in that case. Valimaki can likely be a top 4 guy, but it's a big assumption for him to immediately be ready for it after the injury. 

[cross16]

I'm not as optimistic they can move Kylington so I think he may actually stick around as a depth or 7th dman. He may be in a deal as a package but on his own I don't see any value given his wavier status next year but I do agree they view him as being passed. Not a bad option to keep him for depth as you won't want Mackey sitting in the pressbox. 

 

I don't see Hanifin becoming available unless the deal really blew them away or if it was a top 4 RS dman. I think between them not knowing what they have in Mackey yet, Valimaki coming off a major injury, Gio's age, and the fact that some still think Hanifin could break out, I think they will hold onto him. While it is good to be excited about Mackey I take that comment to refer to his NHL readiness and less about his upside. I think the upside of Mackey is still very much a question and until they know more they won't take that big of a risk on their D by moving Hanifin. 

 

I'd like to see Hanifin shopped but I don't suspect it's the way the Flames will go. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

I'm not as optimistic they can move Kylington so I think he may actually stick around as a depth or 7th dman. He may be in a deal as a package but on his own I don't see any value given his wavier status next year but I do agree they view him as being passed. Not a bad option to keep him for depth as you won't want Mackey sitting in the pressbox. 

 

I don't see Hanifin becoming available unless the deal really blew them away or if it was a top 4 RS dman. I think between them not knowing what they have in Mackey yet, Valimaki coming off a major injury, Gio's age, and the fact that some still think Hanifin could break out, I think they will hold onto him. While it is good to be excited about Mackey I take that comment to refer to his NHL readiness and less about his upside. I think the upside of Mackey is still very much a question and until they know more they won't take that big of a risk on their D by moving Hanifin. 

 

I'd like to see Hanifin shopped but I don't suspect it's the way the Flames will go. 

 

I think the Flames expected and expect to see some progression by Hanifin.

The playoffs could determine his fate, especially if they feel Gustafsson can provide similar stats at a lower price.

Now if they happened to sign Pietrangelo, I think Hanifin will be shopped.

That gives us a plan to replace Gio over time.

Of the existing prospects, only Valimaki has the potential to replace him.

In theory, we would have LD depth of Gio, Valimaki, Gustafsson, possibly Kylington and Mackey.

RD depth would consist of Pietrangelo, Ras, possibly Kylington and Yelesin.

With that, I could easily see Hanifin traded.

Especially if Gustafsson could provide the same for less.

 

[The_People1]

2 hours ago, cross16 said:

the fact that some still think Hanifin could break out, I think they will hold onto him.

 

I don't have the stats but i remember someone said Hamonic has made every D partner he played with worse.  I mean, even Giordano couldn't defense anymore after pairing with Hamonic.  That's pretty serious.  Perhaps, we have been too critical of Hanifin because he has had to single handedly carry dead weight with him for two years.

 

If there are RD and RW offers for Hanifin, then i think we have to look seriously at moving Hanifin.  Otherwise, we probably hang onto him.

[Thebrewcrew]

I think you hold onto Hanifin for one more season. As it stands, it might be hard to find one top 4 D, let alone 2. If Valimaki has a great season next year, then maybe they explore a Hanifin move. 

 

I don't like the idea of replacing Hanifin with Gustafsson. I think of Gustafsson as a left-handed Shattenkirk. 

[travel_dude]

32 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

I think you hold onto Hanifin for one more season. As it stands, it might be hard to find one top 4 D, let alone 2. If Valimaki has a great season next year, then maybe they explore a Hanifin move. 

 

I don't like the idea of replacing Hanifin with Gustafsson. I think of Gustafsson as a left-handed Shattenkirk. 

 

By his own admission, Gustafsson played a little too safe.

Paired with Forbort, it wasn;t exactly a win.

He closer to Hanifin than he is Shatty.

But that's a personal opinion.

What I do know is that he will be a lot cheaper than Hanifin.

 

I don't blame Hanifin for struggling with Hammer.

What I did see in him that I don't like is a tendency to get left behind when the play transitions the other way.

His skating is good, but not Brodie good.

He can carry the puck, but gets lost a bit after he enters the zone.

A decent enough player, maybe just not worth $5m.

If he isn't growing, he's not worth it.

[cross16]

16 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

I don't have the stats but i remember someone said Hamonic has made every D partner he played with worse.  I mean, even Giordano couldn't defense anymore after pairing with Hamonic.  That's pretty serious.  Perhaps, we have been too critical of Hanifin because he has had to single handedly carry dead weight with him for two years.

 

If there are RD and RW offers for Hanifin, then i think we have to look seriously at moving Hanifin.  Otherwise, we probably hang onto him.

the numbers are not great on Hamonic as a Flame there is no question,especially this year. I don’t think it’s quite into “dragging around dead weight” category but Hanifins numbers do look better away from hamonic but it’s also not drastic either. 
 

with Hanifin it’s more what I see with my eyes and I just don’t see anything that makes me think a breakout is coming. I still like him and think he’s a slightly above  avg top 4 dman so it’s not like this has to be negative. The only rationale I’ve had for putting Hanifin out there is can you capitalize on some hype. If some think there is another gear there they may overpay but if that is not the case then trading him probably isn’t worth it. 

[rocketdoctor]

Perhaps that guy in Montreal called Kulak could fill a spot.   😜

[robrob74]

39 minutes ago, rocketdoctor said:

Perhaps that guy in Montreal called Kulak could fill a spot.   😜

 

is he doing well there?

[rocketdoctor]

I've caught a couple of Montreal games and he looks a lot better than I remember in a Falmes uniform.

[Heartbreaker]

I've thought that Fantenberg has looked pretty good in Vancouver, too. They're out there! 

 

Love. 

[cross16]

Kulak has been solid in Montreal yes. He does play top 4 over there, but it's a bit below avg doing it. But again keep this in mind:

 

Gio

Brodie

Hanifin

Valimaki

Kylington

 

Was, and still is, the current LS depth on the Flames. You can't keep everyone and sometimes you need to give players a chance to play elsewhere. 

[travel_dude]

One thing is certain.

Defense wins playoffs games.

TOR, CGY, EDM, WPG all had less than effective defense.

Ours was not able to provide much scoring.

5 goals in 10 games rom the D.

And we looked like crap in about 50% of the games.

Forget about trading the forwards, how about an actual NHL defense.

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

One thing is certain.

Defense wins playoffs games.

TOR, CGY, EDM, WPG all had less than effective defense.

Ours was not able to provide much scoring.

5 goals in 10 games rom the D.

And we looked like crap in about 50% of the games.

Forget about trading the forwards, how about an actual NHL defense.

 

and that’s how I’ve felt for years. When other teams decide to put the pressure on the D caves and it has for years. It’s also the fact the team waits to start playing, getting a feel for the game instead of playing their game. But the D just isn’t strong enough.

[jjgallow]

[LouCifer]

I like our D this year JJ! 😁🤘🏻

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, lou44291 said:

I like our D this year JJ! 😁🤘🏻

 

Between Tanev's selfless blocks (and toughness)...

And Nessy's wicked hockey smarts...

And Ras' general Boom-iness.....

And Valimaki leanrning to be a full time NHL player, but looks like he belongs....

 

I too like our D.

None of the pairs have a glaring weakness.

The older playing with the young.

The two Euros playing together.

The Captain learning from the young star.

The long haired beast helping the guy that had to play with Hamonic.

 

Too much?

 

[LouCifer]

22 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Between Tanev's selfless blocks (and toughness)...

And Nessy's wicked hockey smarts...

And Ras' general Boom-iness.....

And Valimaki leanrning to be a full time NHL player, but looks like he belongs....

 

I too like our D.

None of the pairs have a glaring weakness.

The older playing with the young.

The two Euros playing together.

The Captain learning from the young star.

The long haired beast helping the guy that had to play with Hamonic.

 

Too much?

 

Not at all! I see it the same way TD. It’s nice to be optimistic about our D pairings this year. 😄

[JTech780]

It's a small sample size but Tanev has been rock steady for this team, through the first few games I think you can make a pretty compelling argument that he has been our best defenseman.

 

Add in the leadership he brings. IMO this is the type of leadership this team needs. A guy who is willing to take the young guys under his wing and help them grow.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

It's a small sample size but Tanev has been rock steady for this team, through the first few games I think you can make a pretty compelling argument that he has been our best defenseman.

 

Add in the leadership he brings. IMO this is the type of leadership this team needs. A guy who is willing to take the young guys under his wing and help them grow.

 

I think the teachings of a defensive D-man is nothing but a positive.  Forget about the leadership aspect for a minute, it shows a team approach to a game.  Get people on the same page.  Talk about strategy.  Explain positioning to guys that haven't been in the NHL full time (recently).

 

Tanev easily replaces Hamonic.  That shutdown guy we thought we had and really needed from Gio in the playoffs.  His committment is infectious.  If he can show the value of a good blocked shot, it will inspire more.  Have that mentality when the playoffs come.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

It's a small sample size but Tanev has been rock steady for this team, through the first few games I think you can make a pretty compelling argument that he has been our best defenseman.

 

Add in the leadership he brings. IMO this is the type of leadership this team needs. A guy who is willing to take the young guys under his wing and help them grow.

At the risk of sounding like a total downer but the team has a veteran Norris winning captain for years, did Gio do anything like this?

[robrob74]

16 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

At the risk of sounding like a total downer but the team has a veteran Norris winning captain for years, did Gio do anything like this?

 

I think so. Andersson said he tries to mimic his approach and game as Giordano. Hanifin isnt Giordano’s partner, but probably easier to mentor when playing directly with each other. 
 

it is hard to say because this team’s attention to details has been Satoshi Nakamoto. And that, I think, is what I think is keeping them from becoming a good team. 

[JTech780]

1 hour ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

At the risk of sounding like a total downer but the team has a veteran Norris winning captain for years, did Gio do anything like this?

 

I think Giordano is more of a leader by example. I think he just goes out works hard, and everyone else or expected to follow suit.

 

[jjgallow]

Can't say I love our D.

 

but....  I am glad we've started talking about them again lol

[conundrumed]

7 hours ago, jjgallow said:

Can't say I love our D.

 

but....  I am glad we've started talking about them again lol

Why?

You have to be willing to give it time.

I see nothing wrong with any of the pairings and the season is young.

Nobody's being gifted a spot due to lacking a better option, that's why Kylington is expendable now. He will never crack our top 6 so you should view that as a positive.

The RW needs a scorer though, is really what we've always lacked.

I'm glad it's not Lindstrom this year, he's got way more value as a 1C.

Need a selfish RW that loves to shoot and drive the net though.

Iggy, we finally have the right team build for you now. 😂😂😂