Official Sam Bennett Discussion Thread

[The_People1]

4 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

wow ..BT strikes again .. I had him at least 2.4 per  

 

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1367208-flames-sign-bennett-to-2-year-3-9m-contract

 

Maybe he promised him Jagr as a signing bonus  

 

Brilliant.

 

Everyone nailed it. The fake news that he was heading to Europe was nothing but a last minute desperate move to squeeze out more from BT.  And looks like it didn't work.

[phoenix66]

BT:  "$1.9 per for 2 years "

SB: "are you nuts !  thats insulting !  I'm going to Europe!.. $3M and not a penny less"

BT: " Ok , but you get to play with Brouwer again and some plug from the farm"

SB: "$1.9 eh?  Got a pen ?"

[DHT]

That is a great news. I like SB and in two years, he will get his big deserved contract. Hope he stay as a Flames for a long time.

[redfire11]

7 hours ago, MAC331 said:

LOL you can't be serious, "Bennett needs to be negotiating with GG and his agent with BT". You obviously have no idea how contract negotiations work. As far as you "guaranteeing" GG will be not compromise lines that have worked in the past you know very little about coaching and building our team for success.

Maybe consider 1 size up on the tighty whiteys

[MAC331]

10 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

Maybe consider 1 size up on the tighty whiteys

Quit wearing your hat so tight.

[conundrumed]

Holy crap, under 2 per? Wow.

I am literally astonished.

We were low-balling and hardlining, WOW.

Apparently BT knows agents and will starve out anyone.

Unreal.

[AlbertaBoy12]

2 hours ago, redfire11 said:

Maybe consider 1 size up on the tighty whiteys

Real question does anyone still wear tighty whiteys?

[redfire11]

22 minutes ago, AlbertaBoy12 said:

Real question does anyone still wear tighty whiteys?

"oooh OH oh oooh OH oh

 You gotta keepem seperated"

[travel_dude]

Come on guys.  Leave it outside.  We have every Flames player signed that was an RFA, plus Versteeg.

Let's wait till the regular season starts before we get at each other's throats.

 

 

 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Holy crap, under 2 per? Wow.

I am literally astonished.

We were low-balling and hardlining, WOW.

Apparently BT knows agents and will starve out anyone.

Unreal.

 

BT is good with RFA's agents, but he is elbowing with UFA's agents.

Too bad...

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

BT is good with RFA's agents, but he is elbowing with UFA's agents.

Too bad...

 

Bouma was a RFA - bad.

Versteeg an UFA - good.

Frolik an UFA - neutral (very good player slightly overpaid for his prime years)

Brouwer an UFA - bad.

Stone an UFA - neutral (made $4m last season, but is still a young dman)

Did I miss anyone?

 

Would you prefer Russel 4 x $4m?

[LouCifer]

21 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Would you prefer Russel 4 x $4m?

 

Agreed. 

 

No GM is perfect. Sure BT has a few warts, but I'd say he comes out on top more often than not. I'd rather have him than most of the GMs out there

[robrob74]

32 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Bouma was a RFA - bad.

Versteeg an UFA - good.

Frolik an UFA - neutral (very good player slightly overpaid for his prime years)

Brouwer an UFA - bad.

Stone an UFA - neutral (made $4m last season, but is still a young dman)

Did I miss anyone?

 

Would you prefer Russel 4 x $4m?

 

You missed Raymond. 

[cccsberg]

6 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Bouma was a RFA - bad.

Versteeg an UFA - good.

Frolik an UFA - neutral (very good player slightly overpaid for his prime years)

Brouwer an UFA - bad.

Stone an UFA - neutral (made $4m last season, but is still a young dman)

Did I miss anyone?

 

Would you prefer Russel 4 x $4m?

Its been interesting to watch BT evolve over time.  I would say pretty much all of those signings were good to excellent, if you just focus on what the players did the season prior and assumed it would continue.  Unfortunately, whether its our high mountain air, coaching and systems or just the variability of seasons, several of them fell flat on their faces after the deals were signed.  Starting with Monahan, then Gaudreau and others on up to this Bennett deal BT seems to have changed his philosophy as far as deals goes, putting way more value on consistency of performance versus just the year previous, and certainly not paying much for unverified potential.  He's also developed an internal team maximum for the top players and so far has been able to keep everyone at or under the Gio cap.  In this day and age of gross, I'd say negligent contracts thrown around by other teams this is a refreshing trend.  It may limit our abilities to pick off the superstars out there, when they rarely become available, but I'd think really advances the whole team concept amongst the Flames players.

[travel_dude]

8 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

You missed Raymond. 

 

That one hurt.  There is something about ex-Nucks that are Kryptonite for us.  BMo was fine for one year, but MayRay was only fine before he played for us.  I will give BT a bit of a pass that first year.  Hiller wasn't too bad for one year. 

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, cccsberg said:

Its been interesting to watch BT evolve over time.  I would say pretty much all of those signings were good to excellent, if you just focus on what the players did the season prior and assumed it would continue.  Unfortunately, whether its our high mountain air, coaching and systems or just the variability of seasons, several of them fell flat on their faces after the deals were signed.  Starting with Monahan, then Gaudreau and others on up to this Bennett deal BT seems to have changed his philosophy as far as deals goes, putting way more value on consistency of performance versus just the year previous, and certainly not paying much for unverified potential.  He's also developed an internal team maximum for the top players and so far has been able to keep everyone at or under the Gio cap.  In this day and age of gross, I'd say negligent contracts thrown around by other teams this is a refreshing trend.  It may limit our abilities to pick off the superstars out there, when they rarely become available, but I'd think really advances the whole team concept amongst the Flames players.

One thing people tend to forget is our GM is dealing with real people and good people. Sure the money has to be kept in perspective but your team has certain needs season to season. Every so often they have to try and catch lightning in a bottle (Raymond) or over pay to encourage (Bouma) however the failing point with these two was not recognizing after their injuries how puck shy they became, never fully engaged again. Take Stajan who many of us have wanted gone for years because he makes to much but he gives it his all which effects those around him in a good way. Which leads me to Brouwer the new whipping boy making to much money in everyone's eyes. He hasn't gotten to this point by being no good and I for one hope he bounces back off a terrible season being a huge contributor this season.

Bennett IMO is a victim of circumstance, some of his own making but also some of how he has been utilized. Hopefully over these next two season both player and management work towards mutual success.

[cccsberg]

28 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

One thing people tend to forget is our GM is dealing with real people and good people. Sure the money has to be kept in perspective but your team has certain needs season to season. Every so often they have to try and catch lightning in a bottle (Raymond) or over pay to encourage (Bouma) however the failing point with these two was not recognizing after their injuries how puck shy they became, never fully engaged again. Take Stajan who many of us have wanted gone for years because he makes to much but he gives it his all which effects those around him in a good way. Which leads me to Brouwer the new whipping boy making to much money in everyone's eyes. He hasn't gotten to this point by being no good and I for one hope he bounces back off a terrible season being a huge contributor this season.

Bennett IMO is a victim of circumstance, some of his own making but also some of how he has been utilized. Hopefully over these next two season both player and management work towards mutual success.

Stajan has been ok, and looking back on that trade I think we may have ended up ok at the end of the day.  Brouwer was very consistent with a 20 goal per season average and he dipped to 13 goals last season.  People make out that he had a terrible season but really it wasn't too bad.  Hopefully he can find his groove again this coming season, perhaps on a vet line with Stajan and Versteeg?  

 

Glad to have Bennett signed and in the am interview he was fine with playing either centre or wing so I guess we'll have to wait and see what GG does.  Hopefully the training camp experimentation only lasts 2-3 preseason games and then GG sets the lines and they work to building chemistry.

[MAC331]

47 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

Stajan has been ok, and looking back on that trade I think we may have ended up ok at the end of the day.  Brouwer was very consistent with a 20 goal per season average and he dipped to 13 goals last season.  People make out that he had a terrible season but really it wasn't too bad.  Hopefully he can find his groove again this coming season, perhaps on a vet line with Stajan and Versteeg?  

 

Glad to have Bennett signed and in the am interview he was fine with playing either centre or wing so I guess we'll have to wait and see what GG does.  Hopefully the training camp experimentation only lasts 2-3 preseason games and then GG sets the lines and they work to building chemistry.

I don't have anything bad to say about Stajan, he helped during the times this team needed help and if we are giving the SC a go he has earned his spot on this team.

I have to say this in defense of Brouwer, I don't think he was used properly this past season much in the same vein as Bennett's situation. The player that mucked it all up IMO was Chaisson. I think if anything GG should have went with Brouwer on the top line and Chaisson on the 3rd line as they ended up. No one is saying it so I will, GG should be considering Brouwer with JG and SM if this Jagr deal doesn't happen. Why you ask ? First I think Brouwer will be out to prove his value to the team. Secondly I think it would a waste of his talents being banished to the last line with limited minutes. Thirdly I don't want to see him with Bennett as I don't think that is a good match.

Versteeg is another one that shouldn't be wasted on the last line with limited minutes IMO so where does he become best utilized ? I say on Bennett's lines playing RW.

Here would be a forward group to start out

Gaudreau, Monahan, Brouwer

Ferland, Backlund, Frolik

Tkachuk, Bennett, Versteeg

???????, Stajan, Lazar

[cccsberg]

8 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I don't have anything bad to say about Stajan, he helped during the times this team needed help and if we are giving the SC a go he has earned his spot on this team.

I have to say this in defense of Brouwer, I don't think he was used properly this past season much in the same vein as Bennett's situation. The player that mucked it all up IMO was Chaisson. I think if anything GG should have went with Brouwer on the top line and Chaisson on the 3rd line as they ended up. No one is saying it so I will, GG should be considering Brouwer with JG and SM if this Jagr deal doesn't happen. Why you ask ? First I think Brouwer will be out to prove his value to the team. Secondly I think it would a waste of his talents being banished to the last line with limited minutes. Thirdly I don't want to see him with Bennett as I don't think that is a good match.

Versteeg is another one that shouldn't be wasted on the last line with limited minutes IMO so where does he become best utilized ? I say on Bennett's lines playing RW.

Here would be a forward group to start out

Gaudreau, Monahan, Brouwer

Ferland, Backlund, Frolik

Tkachuk, Bennett, Versteeg

???????, Stajan, Lazar

TO me Ferland is the best fit at 1RW due to his speed, shot, physicality and board work, and the fierceness he bring s to protecting Gaudreau.  Brouwer is a poor second in most of those categories.  If Ferland doesn't work out on a consistent basis, or they bring in Jagr, things will have to change. My second option would be Bennett who might actually be the team's best option there, but it leads to some weakness down the middle, unless Jankowski comes in and takes ahold of one of the C positions, which is possible.  It also concentrates most of your power on two lines and I firmly believe the team will be best served with three strong lines, and although we may not have all the horses in place at this moment for that to happen, we are not far off.  Assuming some of the kids can come in and be effective, I still think a vet line of Stajan, Versteeg and Brouwer could do major damage and allow the team to more evenly roll four lines, with each vet able to move up and down the line-up if needed.

[cross16]

signing FA and specifically July 1 FA means you will overpay, every GM does it. So while yes Treliving's record isn't great and he's signed some bad deals you can say that about every GM so I don't think he is better or worse in that category. He is however becoming one of the better GMs in the league when it comes to negotiating with his own players and I would argue that is far more important. Eventually a good GM wants to get to the point where they don't need to operate in the July 1st market. 

 

On Bennett it's a little under what I thought he'd get, but the term is less too. I thought the Flames would want a 3 year deal and it would push it up to 3 but I can see why the opted for 2. As I've said before team is clearly being designed around a 2 year run and keeping guys like Ferland and Bennett cheap during those years could pay off huge so it makes a ton of sense. 

[MAC331]

18 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

TO me Ferland is the best fit at 1RW due to his speed, shot, physicality and board work, and the fierceness he bring s to protecting Gaudreau.  Brouwer is a poor second in most of those categories.  If Ferland doesn't work out on a consistent basis, or they bring in Jagr, things will have to change. My second option would be Bennett who might actually be the team's best option there, but it leads to some weakness down the middle, unless Jankowski comes in and takes ahold of one of the C positions, which is possible.  It also concentrates most of your power on two lines and I firmly believe the team will be best served with three strong lines, and although we may not have all the horses in place at this moment for that to happen, we are not far off.  Assuming some of the kids can come in and be effective, I still think a vet line of Stajan, Versteeg and Brouwer could do major damage and allow the team to more evenly roll four lines, with each vet able to move up and down the line-up if needed.

I agree Ferland may be better in many ways for the top line RW however he IMO is better suited to play with Backlund and Frolik from a team purpose perspective. He would be back on his proper LW, checking the opposition's top players and having the full opportunity to provide scoring. My scenario was without Jagr so I will leave it that way unless he does sign. I don't see Jankowski starting out with the team or Foo. Bennett going to a wing would be a last resort by GG IMO I wouldn't do it.

Resorting to having Versteeg and Brouwer on a 4th line I think takes away from all the other uses and purpose this line needs to be used for in order for the team to effectively deal with some of the competition.

[MAC331]

15 minutes ago, cross16 said:

signing FA and specifically July 1 FA means you will overpay, every GM does it. So while yes Treliving's record isn't great and he's signed some bad deals you can say that about every GM so I don't think he is better or worse in that category. He is however becoming one of the better GMs in the league when it comes to negotiating with his own players and I would argue that is far more important. Eventually a good GM wants to get to the point where they don't need to operate in the July 1st market. 

 

On Bennett it's a little under what I thought he'd get, but the term is less too. I thought the Flames would want a 3 year deal and it would push it up to 3 but I can see why the opted for 2. As I've said before team is clearly being designed around a 2 year run and keeping guys like Ferland and Bennett cheap during those years could pay off huge so it makes a ton of sense. 

I think the 2 year term sets up well for both player and team to see how this all plays out.

[travel_dude]

48 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I don't have anything bad to say about Stajan, he helped during the times this team needed help and if we are giving the SC a go he has earned his spot on this team.

I have to say this in defense of Brouwer, I don't think he was used properly this past season much in the same vein as Bennett's situation. The player that mucked it all up IMO was Chaisson. I think if anything GG should have went with Brouwer on the top line and Chaisson on the 3rd line as they ended up. No one is saying it so I will, GG should be considering Brouwer with JG and SM if this Jagr deal doesn't happen. Why you ask ? First I think Brouwer will be out to prove his value to the team. Secondly I think it would a waste of his talents being banished to the last line with limited minutes. Thirdly I don't want to see him with Bennett as I don't think that is a good match.

Versteeg is another one that shouldn't be wasted on the last line with limited minutes IMO so where does he become best utilized ? I say on Bennett's lines playing RW.

Here would be a forward group to start out

Gaudreau, Monahan, Brouwer

Ferland, Backlund, Frolik

Tkachuk, Bennett, Versteeg

???????, Stajan, Lazar

 

I just don't see why you gift Brouwer top line minutes when he couldn't deliver last year with top 6 minutes and PP time.  Here's a link to how Brouwer performed with different players.  The results that you saw with Bennett looked the same with Monahan.  Johnny was a little more able to perform with him.  

 

https://flamesnation.ca/2017/05/24/flamesnation-player-evaluation-troy-brouwer/

 

The only two spots I see where he could contribute right now are the Backlund line or the 4th line.  He can still play 12 minutes on the 4th line.  If he is able to up his value, then move him up.  Janko at center may help hjim immensely (assuming they play him there).  Of course this also depends on Lazar's status.  Unfortunate that you have two players that are projects.  

[MAC331]

Just now, travel_dude said:

 

I just don't see why you gift Brouwer top line minutes when he couldn't deliver last year with top 6 minutes and PP time.  Here's a link to how Brouwer performed with different players.  The results that you saw with Bennett looked the same with Monahan.  Johnny was a little more able to perform with him.  

 

https://flamesnation.ca/2017/05/24/flamesnation-player-evaluation-troy-brouwer/

 

The only two spots I see where he could contribute right now are the Backlund line or the 4th line.  He can still play 12 minutes on the 4th line.  If he is able to up his value, then move him up.  Janko at center may help hjim immensely (assuming they play him there).  Of course this also depends on Lazar's status.  Unfortunate that you have two players that are projects.  

I am not gifting anyone anything, just stating a start out scenario. I see a lot of possible movement with the talent in this roster and there will be a lot of jockeying for playing time.

Every season is a fresh start, why shouldn't Brouwer also be given the opportunity ?

[travel_dude]

Just now, MAC331 said:

I am not gifting anyone anything, just stating a start out scenario. I see a lot of possible movement with the talent in this roster and there will be a lot of jockeying for playing time.

Every season is a fresh start, why shouldn't Brouwer also be given the opportunity ?

 

Why is the coach and GM talking about Ferland starting in that spot?  Things can and will change between now and puck drop, but something pretty draftic would need to happen for this scenario, IMHO.  Ferland would have to have a really bad camp/pre-season to drop him in favor of Brouwer.  

 

I'm not saying Brouwer doesn't earn it at camp.  Starting him there for no other reason than giving him opportuinity probably doesn't make sense.