Official Sam Bennett Discussion Thread

[AlbertaBoy12]

57 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I always laugh when these situation come up and suddenly the player has a sense of "entitlement" like we know what is going on with the negotiation. We have no idea what the agent is asking for and no idea what the Flames are offering so to assume Bennett has a sense of entitlement without knowing the facts seems foolish to me. 

 

Pro hockey careers aren't that long and are at risk every year. Trying to maximize your worth is not a sense of entitlement, it's just smart. This is a negotiation and Bennett and company have every right to use whatever leverage they can find to maximize their worth and the Flames have every right to use their leverage to get a deal that works for them. I don't foresee a problem with that gap shrinking once the deadline gets closer and closer. 

 

30 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

 

What entitlement do you speak of?  He was played on the 3rd line with a variety of players that under-performed.  His agent is working to get him the best deal possible.  If the sides are far apart, then that reflects on the agent and the GM.  Johnny got very frustrated last year when the deal didn't happen in September, so one would think that Bennett is feeling the same pressure.

 

If the rift is credible, then at some point someone will cave in a bit.  Gio wanted 9, got >6.  Johnny wanted 7.5, got >6.  The deal will get done. 

Im not saying for sure its entitlement just saying its a real possibility as cross said its a discussion board not a facts board. 

 

But just the same as people claim johnny wants to go home to play, I really doubt bennett wants to go overseas to play. 

[The_People1]

He did joke that he's worth Alex Ovechkin straight up in a trade.  So... Maybe it wasn't a joke after all.

[cccsberg]

• • I believe Bennett going overseas may be the very best thing for both him and the Flames. Look, unless Bennett goes to 1RW or 2LW he is stuck at 3C for the foreseeable (+-5yrs) future, behind Monahan and Backlund. In that spot it is highly unlikely he will get the TOI or hard minutes exposure, nor the effective line mates needed to really prove what he can do. If he goes overseas and really kills it (and I mean REALLY kills it) he’ll come back with way more confidence and leverage to get a deal befitting his talents. It’ll also prove what those talents are. If he goes over and gets a great opportunity (a la Matthews last season) but doesn’t kill it, then ’nuff said, he’ll have to accept becoming one of the best 3C in the league.

     

[rickross]

21 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

• • I believe Bennett going overseas may be the very best thing for both him and the Flames. Look, unless Bennett goes to 1RW or 2LW he is stuck at 3C for the foreseeable (+-5yrs) future, behind Monahan and Backlund. In that spot it is highly unlikely he will get the TOI or hard minutes exposure, nor the effective line mates needed to really prove what he can do. If he goes overseas and really kills it (and I mean REALLY kills it) he’ll come back with way more confidence and leverage to get a deal befitting his talents. It’ll also prove what those talents are. If he goes over and gets a great opportunity (a la Matthews last season) but doesn’t kill it, then ’nuff said, he’ll have to accept becoming one of the best 3C in the league.

     

Yup, I don't see him going overseas as a negative for his development. The kid is one of the luckier draft picks, he's been able to experience the playoffs in 2 of the 3 years he's been in the NHL. Some vets would kill for that opportunity throughout their careers. He hasn't proven he's ready to dethrone Backs/Tkachuk as a 2nd line centre/winger and seeing Tkachuk excel in his rookie year should light a fire under his bum. Flames would love nothing more than for him to succeed and force them into a long term max deal...thats what you expect from a top 5 pick. If his problem is with his ice time and line mates then he needs to take that up with GG not BT. 

[robrob74]

Dreger, today on Vancouver radio, said that Bennett is merely going to Europe to train to get away from the distraction, not to play in Europe.

 

He also said that Treliving is confident a deal will come before camp.

[YounGuns]

I highly doubt there is any chance Bennett goes overseas.  He's a young guy, he must feel like he's just on the cusp of breaking through to becoming a really effective player for us.  The coach and GM and president of hockey operations have all publicly stated they also feel like he is on the cusp of playing some pretty special hockey.  There's no way Bennett says goodbye and places his dream of becoming a star in the NHL on hold to play overseas just to get a few extra dollars, that to me is ridiculous.  There's no way the Flames let Bennett go play overseas and gamble on throwing away the highest pick in franchise history during a season where management and players alike have sounded the alarm that we think we're legit contenders.  He's a big part of our plans moving forward.  This isn't anywhere near the case of Athanasiou talking about going to the KHL and having been offered significant money....this is either an agent trying to put pressure on a GM that won't be pressured, or Dreger looking for a story to blow out of proportion.  Bennett isn't going anywhere.

[The_People1]

39 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

Dreger, today on Vancouver radio, said that Bennett is merely going to Europe to train to get away from the distraction, not to play in Europe.

 

He also said that Treliving is confident a deal will come before camp.

 

Go to Europe to screw up his biological clock, then come back to jet lag just in time for camp.  Why?

[robrob74]

53 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Go to Europe to screw up his biological clock, then come back to jet lag just in time for camp.  Why?

 

I am not certain. I can't imagine what it is like to be a player waiting a contract. I was out of it for a weekend when I had to choose a teaching contract or or choose to wait to see if I would get another from other postings or other school districts. Not exactly the same thing, but uncertainty is unnerving. 

 

But then, I say just work out. Go see Gary Roberts and earn your way to a better contract... 

 

i still have high hopes for the kid.

[MAC331]

2 hours ago, cccsberg said:

• • I believe Bennett going overseas may be the very best thing for both him and the Flames. Look, unless Bennett goes to 1RW or 2LW he is stuck at 3C for the foreseeable (+-5yrs) future, behind Monahan and Backlund. In that spot it is highly unlikely he will get the TOI or hard minutes exposure, nor the effective line mates needed to really prove what he can do. If he goes overseas and really kills it (and I mean REALLY kills it) he’ll come back with way more confidence and leverage to get a deal befitting his talents. It’ll also prove what those talents are. If he goes over and gets a great opportunity (a la Matthews last season) but doesn’t kill it, then ’nuff said, he’ll have to accept becoming one of the best 3C in the league.

     

Yeah I don't agree with this assessment of where Bennett stands or addresses the further needs of the team. We need another scoring line and if they get his line right this season this could be achieved. This isn't about 2C or 3C or being behind Backlund or Monahan at all. This team is still building and we need Bennett here growing with this team.

[cccsberg]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

Yeah I don't agree with this assessment of where Bennett stands or addresses the further needs of the team. We need another scoring line and if they get his line right this season this could be achieved. This isn't about 2C or 3C or being behind Backlund or Monahan at all. This team is still building and we need Bennett here growing with this team.

I have already stated and will again that getting three scoring lines, by putting Tkachuk with Bennett would be the best thing for the team.  However if he gets a set-up like last year, it won't happen and any short-term bridge deal will fail for him again, with less than optimum points.  Bennett is in the unenviable position of being the third wheel ie centres on the team and I can't think of a single NHL team where that is happening and works out well for that guy.  None.  Unfortunately although having him on a third line might be best for the Flames, this is literally costing SB and his future family potentially, and actually tens of millions of dollars.  I think this is totally about opportunity, and he's in a terrible spot.  If the Flames truly believe he is a potential Top6 star in the making, they need to step up with commensurate bucks, or at least get him onto one of those lines (1LW/RW) to maximize that talent.  Even if he can do that for half/two thirds of the season before they make strategic changes to spread the talent that would at least give him a decent chance to prove himself, while still maximizing the team's chances.  

 

Tough call, and a difficult one by both sides.  Unfortunately because of a couple of bad deals on the team we may be in a bind.  It's a shame, and because our top guys aren't superstars but just stars, and we therefore need more of them to truly compete for the Cup we may be hooped.  The reality of our situation is hitting home.... ????

 

 

[rickross]

3 hours ago, YounGuns said:

I highly doubt there is any chance Bennett goes overseas.  He's a young guy, he must feel like he's just on the cusp of breaking through to becoming a really effective player for us.  The coach and GM and president of hockey operations have all publicly stated they also feel like he is on the cusp of playing some pretty special hockey.  There's no way Bennett says goodbye and places his dream of becoming a star in the NHL on hold to play overseas just to get a few extra dollars, that to me is ridiculous.  There's no way the Flames let Bennett go play overseas and gamble on throwing away the highest pick in franchise history during a season where management and players alike have sounded the alarm that we think we're legit contenders.  He's a big part of our plans moving forward.  This isn't anywhere near the case of Athanasiou talking about going to the KHL and having been offered significant money....this is either an agent trying to put pressure on a GM that won't be pressured, or Dreger looking for a story to blow out of proportion.  Bennett isn't going anywhere.

It's being overblown..same thing with Jagr to the Flames. Bennett will resign I think most of us agree with that, term and price are the only unknowns, I hope he doesn't get more than $3M for cap sake. Nothing would be worse for the kid if he's grossly overpaid only to underperform..fans turning on him won't help his development in any way. I imagine this is what BT is trying to stress to Bennett and his camp, the added pressure of meeting the high expectations of a huge raise can end up stunting his development in the end. He's already being called out to step up his game this year whether by his own coach, teammates or analysts so the pressure is there already. Hopefully this gets done sooner than later, this team needs a strong start this season.

[cccsberg]

7 hours ago, cross16 said:

I always laugh when these situation come up and suddenly the player has a sense of "entitlement" like we know what is going on with the negotiation. We have no idea what the agent is asking for and no idea what the Flames are offering so to assume Bennett has a sense of entitlement without knowing the facts seems foolish to me. 

 

Pro hockey careers aren't that long and are at risk every year. Trying to maximize your worth is not a sense of entitlement, it's just smart. This is a negotiation and Bennett and company have every right to use whatever leverage they can find to maximize their worth and the Flames have every right to use their leverage to get a deal that works for them. I don't foresee a problem with that gap shrinking once the deadline gets closer and closer. 

Absolutely correct about us having no clue what is really happening and just standing on the outside making assumptions.  Look, I think sports salaries are obscene and ridiculous, same with entertainment and etc, but the reality is they are what they are and to Bennett this is an argument over millions of dollars, maybe tens of millions.  Unfortunate as it is, this is also a business and not just hockey.

[Flyerfan52]

13 hours ago, cccsberg said:

• • I believe Bennett going overseas may be the very best thing for both him and the Flames. Look, unless Bennett goes to 1RW or 2LW he is stuck at 3C for the foreseeable (+-5yrs) future, behind Monahan and Backlund. In that spot it is highly unlikely he will get the TOI or hard minutes exposure, nor the effective line mates needed to really prove what he can do. If he goes overseas and really kills it (and I mean REALLY kills it) he’ll come back with way more confidence and leverage to get a deal befitting his talents. It’ll also prove what those talents are. If he goes over and gets a great opportunity (a la Matthews last season) but doesn’t kill it, then ’nuff said, he’ll have to accept becoming one of the best 3C in the league.

     

OTOH Backlund will be UFA next season so if Bennett can make him expendable he's got that #2C. If he plays really well he could unseat Monahan as well. It's there for that taking if he's ever going to be what was hoped for.

[cccsberg]

43 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

OTOH Backlund will be UFA next season so if Bennett can make him expendable he's got that #2C. If he plays really well he could unseat Monahan as well. It's there for that taking if he's ever going to be what was hoped for.

There is that possibility, but there is also the relationship between opportunity and success.  Bennett in his first year outscored Monahan in his first year.  In their second years Monahan gets Gaudreau and first line minutes and the peak of a go-for-it coach, Bennett gets the exciting new UFA signing for the Flames, Troy Brouwer, plus a new coaching staff and totally new system.  Sure SB did not take Brouwer by the scruff of the neck and together burn up the league... how am I surprised?  The development/opportunity differences between the two players is stark, and here we are post-ELC and Monahan gets a huge, long-term contract along with his buddy Gaudreau and SB gets at best a marginal bridge contract offer and his buddy Brouwer is the punching bag for the fans who can't wait till the day he is no longer a Flame.  

[The_People1]

What kind of contract extension is Sam Reinhart looking for?  Reinhart also hasnt lived up to his hype in terms of offensive numbers.

 

Could this be a straight up trade where two players get a fresh start on a new team?

[MAC331]

10 hours ago, cccsberg said:

I have already stated and will again that getting three scoring lines, by putting Tkachuk with Bennett would be the best thing for the team.  However if he gets a set-up like last year, it won't happen and any short-term bridge deal will fail for him again, with less than optimum points.  Bennett is in the unenviable position of being the third wheel ie centres on the team and I can't think of a single NHL team where that is happening and works out well for that guy.  None.  Unfortunately although having him on a third line might be best for the Flames, this is literally costing SB and his future family potentially, and actually tens of millions of dollars.  I think this is totally about opportunity, and he's in a terrible spot.  If the Flames truly believe he is a potential Top6 star in the making, they need to step up with commensurate bucks, or at least get him onto one of those lines (1LW/RW) to maximize that talent.  Even if he can do that for half/two thirds of the season before they make strategic changes to spread the talent that would at least give him a decent chance to prove himself, while still maximizing the team's chances.  

 

Tough call, and a difficult one by both sides.  Unfortunately because of a couple of bad deals on the team we may be in a bind.  It's a shame, and because our top guys aren't superstars but just stars, and we therefore need more of them to truly compete for the Cup we may be hooped.  The reality of our situation is hitting home.... ????

 

 

We agree on one thing both the GM and the Coach need to get this right, this season. We cannot have Bennett languish with mediocre wingers, he past the learning stage and it is now performance time. I don't agree with this top 6 thinking for this season and believe the team need to improve their top 9 play to have a much better season. Personally I would give him the same as Ferland and go from there.

[redfire11]

As in any business an employee must impress their immediate boss. That boss then makes a case to upper management for raises and extensions. So realistically how much did Bennett impress or instill confidence to GG. On the offensive side Bennett took too many untimely penalties and his poor positional play reminded me of a kid on too much sugar. This did work on the PK and we saw GG use Bennett more this last year in that roll. So how much will GG go to bat for Bennett will be determined by where Bennett fits into the system GG is trying to install. We keep saying Bennett needs to play with this X or this Y player to succeed but I can guarantee GG will not compromise lines that have had success under his system to further the career of a single player. 

So ultimately Bennett needs to be negotiating with GG and his agent with BT.

[MAC331]

2 hours ago, redfire11 said:

As in any business an employee must impress their immediate boss. That boss then makes a case to upper management for raises and extensions. So realistically how much did Bennett impress or instill confidence to GG. On the offensive side Bennett took too many untimely penalties and his poor positional play reminded me of a kid on too much sugar. This did work on the PK and we saw GG use Bennett more this last year in that roll. So how much will GG go to bat for Bennett will be determined by where Bennett fits into the system GG is trying to install. We keep saying Bennett needs to play with this X or this Y player to succeed but I can guarantee GG will not compromise lines that have had success under his system to further the career of a single player. 

So ultimately Bennett needs to be negotiating with GG and his agent with BT.

LOL you can't be serious, "Bennett needs to be negotiating with GG and his agent with BT". You obviously have no idea how contract negotiations work. As far as you "guaranteeing" GG will be not compromise lines that have worked in the past you know very little about coaching and building our team for success.

[travel_dude]

45 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

LOL you can't be serious, "Bennett needs to be negotiating with GG and his agent with BT". You obviously have no idea how contract negotiations work. As far as you "guaranteeing" GG will be not compromise lines that have worked in the past you know very little about coaching and building our team for success.

 

Not really supporting the argument, but I think he was just suggesting that SB needs to impress or convince GG to play him in certain circumstances.  I don't believe he was talking about contract.  That is BT and SB's agent only.

[Flyerfan52]

24 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Not really supporting the argument, but I think he was just suggesting that SB needs to impress or convince GG to play him in certain circumstances.  I don't believe he was talking about contract.  That is BT and SB's agent only.

That's the way I read it too. For more minutes & prime assignments (PP time for instance) Bennett has to prove to GG he can handle them. You see it & it's reverse of 1st line players being dropped to the 4th or even benched on every team all the time. A player deserving the prime minutes will quickly find the game that got him those & be back.

 

I wonder if we (fans & management) were so enamored by his scoring stats, the fact he'd been ranked #1 but fell to us @ #4 & the Gilmore comparisons that we would be disappointed by him being any less than 2C after 1 full season.

Thinking of it with the benifit of hindsight I think of Sean Couturier. Same 1.21 PPG in junior, feisty & due to mono fell from ranked #1 to #8. The Flyers immediatly tasked him with a shutdown role to stop the likes of Crosby, Ovechkin or Malkin @ the expense of higher scoring #s. If we'd done similar with Bennett from the get-go I wonder if we'd be admiring that ability (like I do with Couts) or carping about him not scoring like in junior (a lot of Flyers fans do that). To me preventing goals is = to scoring them (I've made that clear) but I see the 4.33 paid for 2nd/3rd C Couts as a great deal though he'll probably never top 40 points playing in that capacity.

[The_People1]

39 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

That's the way I read it too. For more minutes & prime assignments (PP time for instance) Bennett has to prove to GG he can handle them. You see it & it's reverse of 1st line players being dropped to the 4th or even benched on every team all the time. A player deserving the prime minutes will quickly find the game that got him those & be back.

 

I wonder if we (fans & management) were so enamored by his scoring stats, the fact he'd been ranked #1 but fell to us @ #4 & the Gilmore comparisons that we would be disappointed by him being any less than 2C after 1 full season.

Thinking of it with the benifit of hindsight I think of Sean Couturier. Same 1.21 PPG in junior, feisty & due to mono fell from ranked #1 to #8. The Flyers immediatly tasked him with a shutdown role to stop the likes of Crosby, Ovechkin or Malkin @ the expense of higher scoring #s. If we'd done similar with Bennett from the get-go I wonder if we'd be admiring that ability (like I do with Couts) or carping about him not scoring like in junior (a lot of Flyers fans do that). To me preventing goals is = to scoring them (I've made that clear) but I see the 4.33 paid for 2nd/3rd C Couts as a great deal though he'll probably never top 40 points playing in that capacity.

 

From what I remember, Bennett was on the 2nd unit PP to begin last season but Backlund/Frolik did exactly what you said. They played their way onto the PP and forced GG to keep them there with their success. 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, Flyerfan52 said:

I wonder if we (fans & management) were so enamored by his scoring stats, the fact he'd been ranked #1 but fell to us @ #4 & the Gilmore comparisons that we would be disappointed by him being any less than 2C after 1 full season.

 

That is often so true.  Junior stats make players seem like a sure thing.

Scoring in junior is just that, playing against young guys.  Look at Mangiapane 43g in his first full season with the Colts.

He's less regarded than Bennett, but the stats were similar in draft years.  I think it's actually going to benefit Mangiapane to have less pressure and develop his game in the AHL until he can crack the team.

 

All that aside, Bennett had a decent rookie year followed by a sophomore slump year.  No reason to think he can't pull it together.  Play him with reasonable talent or at least a comparable player type.

[MAC331]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Not really supporting the argument, but I think he was just suggesting that SB needs to impress or convince GG to play him in certain circumstances.  I don't believe he was talking about contract.  That is BT and SB's agent only.

Agreed that's whose jobs it is BT and agent.

[phoenix66]

wow ..BT strikes again .. I had him at least 2.4 per  

 

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1367208-flames-sign-bennett-to-2-year-3-9m-contract

 

Maybe he promised him Jagr as a signing bonus  

[rickross]

17 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

wow ..BT strikes again .. I had him at least 2.4 per  

 

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1367208-flames-sign-bennett-to-2-year-3-9m-contract

 

Maybe he promised him Jagr as a signing bonus  

What. A. Steal! Great value signing for the Flames, Jagr is next for sure lol