Goaltending

[medatswhoP]

1 hour ago, bosn111 said:

Thanks Sak, I couldn’t remember who the goalies were.
 

Looking online there was the Ramo, Hiller, Ortio issue in 13/14 where all 3 left after the season. Broissoit was also in that year. I think that was the situation I was remembering. (The one you mentioned but adding 2 more tenders)

Anyone else remember something similar?

 

 

 

Going abit back but I recall "Red light" Roloson competing with Tabaracci in net all year for #1.

Both played almost identical # games, with a very close Win/Loss stat.  Although they both sucked together.

Tabaracci played a few more years then Roloson prior but interesting enough both were gone the year after in (1998).

I feel with two goalies competing with each other each night to play more games can be healthy for them as in Marky and Vlads have great attitudes it appears both on and off ice. Anything that can push your game higher sets a standard for all players to key in on in a positive direction.

 

[Thebrewcrew]

The goaltending situation is in a good spot.

 

If a goalie gets hurt, Louie Domingue is no longer your #3.

 

It sucks for Wolf, but I still think he’s going to play 10-15 games this year.

[omit555]

10 hours ago, bosn111 said:

Thanks Sak, I couldn’t remember who the goalies were.
 

Looking online there was the Ramo, Hiller, Ortio issue in 13/14 where all 3 left after the season. Broissoit was also in that year. I think that was the situation I was remembering. (The one you mentioned but adding 2 more tenders)

Anyone else remember something similar?

 

 

 

Ramo/Ortio played until the season 2016. They even had Niklas Backstrom. I remember that very well because it was so special to have 3 Finnish goalies same time. And that was the year I visited in Calgary. Good memories. 

[jjgallow]

9 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

The goaltending situation is in a good spot.

 

If a goalie gets hurt, Louie Domingue is no longer your #3.

 

It sucks for Wolf, but I still think he’s going to play 10-15 games this year.

 

we'll see.   first game was good.

 

In the preseason, it looked dire.  last year, looked dire.

 

first game looked good.  

 

Going to be honest I'm more interested at this point in how Vladar and our prospects do, for various reasons...

 

And on that note Wolf did have a good first game.   Was really good to see him take the decision without it hurting his performance.

[jjgallow]

Markstrom still looking good!

 

I won't lie lol.   I'd take advantage of it and trade him.  Sorry.     But, that aside, very good to see.

 

Wolf looking good too.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, jjgallow said:

Markstrom still looking good!

 

I won't lie lol.   I'd take advantage of it and trade him.  Sorry.     But, that aside, very good to see.

 

Wolf looking good too.

 

Trade for what?  We get someone that is playing a starter role, one we struggled to slot for years, and you want to trade him?  Maybe we develop in nets the way NAS did.  Vladar isn't getting much of a chance yet, and who knows how good or bad he really is.  You want to go with Vladar and Wolf?  Okay, that makes some sense, but are you willing to have goaltending about 3 years behind the rest of the team?

[jjgallow]

13 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Trade for what?  We get someone that is playing a starter role, one we struggled to slot for years, and you want to trade him?  Maybe we develop in nets the way NAS did.  Vladar isn't getting much of a chance yet, and who knows how good or bad he really is.  You want to go with Vladar and Wolf?  Okay, that makes some sense, but are you willing to have goaltending about 3 years behind the rest of the team?

 

I dunno man, I'm just trying to reply in a topic that isn't completely braindead like that paper bag one everyone keeps bumping.

 

I think it's early to annoint Markstrom, he's still not where he needs to be but he has had some good games.   I would not be calling him a solution yet, I would be calling him a form of hope.   Which could translate into trade potential (we have no defence anyway so really what's the point lol).  

 

I wouldn't see us getting much for a 900 goalie.  If he puts together a string of 10 great games though, he'd be getting closer to his salary value and then ...then maybe.

 

The only way you'd get a decent return for him today I think is with a buyout.  But yeah a few more good games....that could change.

 

Honestly I would trade him to a team like Washington who things they are smart but isn't.   For picks.  
 

Or trade him to a team who has a top D prospect.

 

Basically, Markstrom is untradeable right now.   If he puts together a string of 10 good games, you get the opposite problem.  All of a sudden we don't want to trade him.   Is like that lol.    I would say, zoom out.

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

I dunno man, I'm just trying to reply in a topic that isn't completely braindead like that paper bag one everyone keeps bumping.

 

I think it's early to annoint Markstrom, he's still not where he needs to be but he has had some good games.   I would not be calling him a solution yet, I would be calling him a form of hope.   Which could translate into trade potential (we have no defence anyway so really what's the point lol).  

 

I wouldn't see us getting much for a 900 goalie.  If he puts together a string of 10 great games though, he'd be getting closer to his salary value and then ...then maybe.

 

The only way you'd get a decent return for him today I think is with a buyout.  But yeah a few more good games....that could change.

 

Honestly I would trade him to a team like Washington who things they are smart but isn't.   For picks.  
 

Or trade him to a team who has a top D prospect.

 

Basically, Markstrom is untradeable right now.   If he puts together a string of 10 good games, you get the opposite problem.  All of a sudden we don't want to trade him.   Is like that lol.    I would say, zoom out.

 

I'm just saying what does it solve other than getting rid of a contract that could turn bad.  It's not great now at $8M actual, but it's not a Bob contract.  Trading him for picks likely mean they aren't top picks.  He would help a team make the playoffs.  So, a 1st, even if it's on the table, doesn't solve any goalie problem.

 

Happy to debate it.  Just needing to know what the "trade" solves.

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

I'm just saying what does it solve other than getting rid of a contract that could turn bad.  It's not great now at $8M actual, but it's not a Bob contract.  Trading him for picks likely mean they aren't top picks.  He would help a team make the playoffs.  So, a 1st, even if it's on the table, doesn't solve any goalie problem.

 

Happy to debate it.  Just needing to know what the "trade" solves.

 

well, really, any "great" trade involves a buyout which seems unlikely.   but, nevertheless, that would be my first thing.  buy him out, trade for top picks.  will that happen?  no.   however, i take comfort in knowing that none of the scenarios will happen Anyway 😅

 

if you don't do a buyout/trade (I'm using the wrong terminology, you know what I mean, they eat a chunk of the contract in the trade), then, yeah that's tougher.   You're right, probably not top picks.     Then I'd be looking at a package deal with other pieces.  Hanifin.  Lindholm. etc. etc.    package deal.

 

Too often, we've been on the wrong end of  a package deal.   we give away one top calibre player and get a bucket of spare parts in return.   It's time to be on the other side of one of those deals.   But, maybe a top pick in return.   Or a top prospect.

[The_People1]

On 10/29/2023 at 8:02 AM, jjgallow said:

Markstrom still looking good!

 

I won't lie lol.   I'd take advantage of it and trade him.  Sorry.     But, that aside, very good to see.

 

Wolf looking good too.

 

The eyeball test, yes.  But boy his numbers still looking bad.

 

1 win

2.88 GAA

0.901 sv%

 

Sad thing is, if we didn't have Markstrom, then we would be getting blown out every game.  Vladar's numbers are even worse.  Flames allow too many high danger chances.  

[jjgallow]

25 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

The eyeball test, yes.  But boy his numbers still looking bad.

 

1 win

2.88 GAA

0.901 sv%

 

Sad thing is, if we didn't have Markstrom, then we would be getting blown out every game.  Vladar's numbers are even worse.  Flames allow too many high danger chances.  

 

Yeah I'm just trying to find positives.   Heritage classic didn't help that cause.

 

I am trying to find positives, though, for the purpose of trading them for picks/prospects.   straight up.   

 

[robrob74]

42 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Yeah I'm just trying to find positives.   Heritage classic didn't help that cause.

 

I am trying to find positives, though, for the purpose of trading them for picks/prospects.   straight up.   

 

the cap system has made the trade market dry up for the most part. GM's spending to the cap make no room for straight up hockey trades. Cap has to be a Function of every deal. GM's overpay and clog the system and here we are. We now have to wait for the TDL to make deals. 
 

Honestly, my bet is on the Flames spending a 1st rounder trying to bump up 5-10 points just to be close to making it. 
 

stay the course and pick the most dynamic player available. Go Europe.

 

as bad as Markstrom was last year, I don't think he was the problem. We don't count the games the team only scored once. 

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

The eyeball test, yes.  But boy his numbers still looking bad.

 

1 win

2.88 GAA

0.901 sv%

 

Sad thing is, if we didn't have Markstrom, then we would be getting blown out every game.  Vladar's numbers are even worse.  Flames allow too many high danger chances.  

This exploits just how badly stats have little to do with reality. It does the same for Husso. He looks great too, then people like Ryan Pike and others invent stories from stat lines. It's annoying af. They tend to leave out the, "prolly shoulda lost 14-2" part.

[The_People1]

2 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

This exploits just how badly stats have little to do with reality. It does the same for Husso. He looks great too, then people like Ryan Pike and others invent stories from stat lines. It's annoying af. They tend to leave out the, "prolly shoulda lost 14-2" part.

 

Ya I mean, I guess scouts who actually watch Markstrom play would value him and look past the stats.  He's good this season. But without the stats, Flames cant ask for much in return. It would be a cap dump for us.

[cross16]

Keep in mind too with goalie stats, in particular save %, they are down league wide. From 09-10 until 19-20 the avg Save % was never below .910. Since then it's fallen to .904 and .906 the last 2 seasons.  Have to adjust your criteria if you want to use stats like that. 

 

Even though he is playing solid I'm still skeptical you can move him because the 2 years left and the NMC but if the cap goes up like they think the chances might not be zero. NMC is a big challenge though. 

[conundrumed]

I'm likely the last bastion here of not bailing on Markstrom as a goalie. He's a solid NHL goalie. I'd say Vas, Shesterkin and Saros are the elites, and Markstrom is at or near the top of the next tier.

I'm just not buying the negative hyperbole and never have. Most goalies are cold when his team dominates for the 1st 15mins. Outshoot the opponent 18-3 and you're down 2-0. That sounds a lot like hockey. You lose to backups throwing 7-8 useless shots at them to start a game. They get the feel, your goalie is cold.

Even struggling, Markstrom's usually pulling 5 or 6 10-bellers out of his arse most games.

He definitely has value in this league.

There is really no help coming at D. We're drafting Dmen for offence and pretty much nothing for defence. We have zero size/aggression on the back end to stop anyone for the foreseeable future. Too busy drafting O-first guys.

[420since1974]

I agree that Markstrom is in the 2nd tier of NHL starters.

IMO, somewhere in the 8 - 16 range of the 32 team league.

If team defence was up to par, he would be closer to 8 than 16.

I would just run out his contract until it expires in 2025/2026.

I'd replace Vladar with Wolf after the 2024-2025 season, even earlier if the Flames can trade and recoup the cost of Vladar (3rd round pick).

Sergeev (20) and Yegorov (18) are still future possibilities, I have lost some confidence in Chechelev though he is still just 22.

[travel_dude]

21 hours ago, conundrumed said:

I'm likely the last bastion here of not bailing on Markstrom as a goalie. He's a solid NHL goalie. I'd say Vas, Shesterkin and Saros are the elites, and Markstrom is at or near the top of the next tier.

I'm just not buying the negative hyperbole and never have. Most goalies are cold when his team dominates for the 1st 15mins. Outshoot the opponent 18-3 and you're down 2-0. That sounds a lot like hockey. You lose to backups throwing 7-8 useless shots at them to start a game. They get the feel, your goalie is cold.

Even struggling, Markstrom's usually pulling 5 or 6 10-bellers out of his arse most games.

He definitely has value in this league.

There is really no help coming at D. We're drafting Dmen for offence and pretty much nothing for defence. We have zero size/aggression on the back end to stop anyone for the foreseeable future. Too busy drafting O-first guys.

 

13 hours ago, 420since1974 said:

I agree that Markstrom is in the 2nd tier of NHL starters.

IMO, somewhere in the 8 - 16 range of the 32 team league.

If team defence was up to par, he would be closer to 8 than 16.

I would just run out his contract until it expires in 2025/2026.

I'd replace Vladar with Wolf after the 2024-2025 season, even earlier if the Flames can trade and recoup the cost of Vladar (3rd round pick).

Sergeev (20) and Yegorov (18) are still future possibilities, I have lost some confidence in Chechelev though he is still just 22.

 

I may have opted to go with Wolf from the outset, but it appears they are running the goalies similar to last year at about 75% for the starter.  Right now closer to 90.  That doesn't help a guy like Wolf, he needs to play 1-2 weekly.  Since we opted to keep Vladar for whatever reason, it's important to use Vladar more often, not only base starts on one poor one. 

 

Vladar was not good in what he gave up, but not entirely on him.  The D has been Swiss cheese.  None of the pairings overall have been good on the D.  They also cheat too much on offense and are not good at reading the play.  How many odd man rushes and breakaways do we want to give up.      

[conundrumed]

Uh-oh...

 

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Uh-oh...

 

 

 

First big test of our depth.  Even if the injury is minor, that's 90% of his upper net stopping ability.  

[robrob74]

1 minute ago, travel_dude said:

 

 

First big test of our depth.  Even if the injury is minor, that's 90% of his upper net stopping ability.  

 

It's pretty amazing goalies have to stop bullets with as little padding as they have in the catcher's glove. 

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

 

It's pretty amazing goalies have to stop bullets with as little padding as they have in the catcher's glove. 

 

Like a lot of injuries, it was between the glove and the arm padding.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Uh-oh...

 

 

 

He's only our best player this season.

[cross16]

Injuries are a common way to find out what you have. I personally would be fine if this leads to Wolf getting a run of games. 

 

Markstrom has been good, but not that good this season. 

[Heartbreaker]

 

Love.