Goaltending

[CheersMan]

2 hours ago, The_People1 said:

Zagadulin is 9-1-1 in Stockton this season.  Does he deserve a call-up if Talbot can't win?  I haven't seen him play but maybe he's doing something right?

Made me look.
Impressive win/loss record but he’s not winning in the NHL with 3.61 GAA and 0.879 SA%.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, CheersMan said:

Made me look.
Impressive win/loss record but he’s not winning in the NHL with 3.61 GAA and 0.879 SA%.

 

And Gillies has a record of 4-3-4 with 903 and 2.68 GAA.

Which proves nothing

[DirtyDeeds]

We picked up Kipper at age 27. He hit his prime (Vesina & Jennings 2006) at a young age of 30.

History shows that goaltenders don't hit their peak until closer to 30 years old. It is only recently that there have been a few younger goalies get cup runs and do well.

[jjgallow]

 

I'm....really trying to not look at this thread right now as it's not worth a dustup over nothing.

 

But....  "Take your shirt of for Kiprusoff" was coined for a 27 year old Kipper and we can all be rest assured that his .939 regular season and Cup Run was his prime.

 

The medals he won after were also deserved but he was already just slightly in decline.   There's no evidence at all short of a Very few exceptions (Tim Thomas) that goalies get better at 30.  Quite the opposite. 

 

Also, Kipper was himself a tremendous exception and I can't count the number of times we've made poor goaltending decisions and someone said "but Kipper was old"

[conundrumed]

4 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

I'm....really trying to not look at this thread right now as it's not worth a dustup over nothing.

 

But....  "Take your shirt of for Kiprusoff" was coined for a 27 year old Kipper and we can all be rest assured that his .939 regular season and Cup Run was his prime.

 

The medals he won after were also deserved but he was already just slightly in decline.   There's no evidence at all short of a Very few exceptions (Tim Thomas) that goalies get better at 30.  Quite the opposite. 

 

Also, Kipper was himself a tremendous exception and I can't count the number of times we've made poor goaltending decisions and someone said "but Kipper was old"

We traded down for Jankowski and a throwaway 2nd. Should have taken Vasilevsky. That was a huge mistake by Feaster. Right when Kiprusoff was going away. So dumb. We've struggled ever since, forever in "hold the spot" mode waiting for Gillies led to nothing but turmoil.

Rittich has been like finding money. We spent assets on meh. He cost us nothing. You should be happy, lol. Made the best of a really bad situation.

[jjgallow]

4 hours ago, conundrumed said:

We traded down for Jankowski and a throwaway 2nd. Should have taken Vasilevsky. That was a huge mistake by Feaster. Right when Kiprusoff was going away. So dumb. We've struggled ever since, forever in "hold the spot" mode waiting for Gillies led to nothing but turmoil.

Rittich has been like finding money. We spent assets on meh. He cost us nothing. You should be happy, lol. Made the best of a really bad situation.

 

Oh this is me happy

 

[cross16]

2nd Star of the Week honors for Rittich

 

 

[travel_dude]

7 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Oh this is me happy

 

(BT did the same with numerous legit 1A opportunities)

 

We sure missed the boat on Ortio and Irving.

Those guys are studs in the Swiss and Austrian leagues.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

Rittich is on pace to have 62 starts by the end of season and if it comes down to the team fighting for a playoff spot I'm afraid that will only go up. Fearing the risk of burnout/injury I think they gotta get Talbot in the rotation a little more frequently.

[travel_dude]

22 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

Rittich is on pace to have 62 starts by the end of season and if it comes down to the team fighting for a playoff spot I'm afraid that will only go up. Fearing the risk of burnout/injury I think they gotta get Talbot in the rotation a little more frequently.

 

Last week was supposed to have a scheduled start for Talbot, but, ya know the whole BP situation needed to have the Flames go with the regulars.

Rittich will probably get the start against Buffalo so he's not unplayed for too long.

 

Rittich will get Buffalo, Talbot LA, Talbot either COL or ARI, Rittich TOR, Talbot CAR.

 

They will try to get Talbot 2 in a row at times.

[cross16]

I'd like to see Talbot get at least 5 starts this month.

 

1 of Buff/La

1 of Col/Ari

Montreal

Minny

Chicago

 

January is a lighter month with a pretty balanced schedule. So manager December properly and then into a lighter January I think set up well for the rest of the year. 

[jjgallow]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

We sure missed the boat on Ortio and Irving.

Those guys are studs in the Swiss and Austrian leagues.

 

well hey now they're almost old enough for us to consider them prospects

[travel_dude]

27 minutes ago, cross16 said:

I'd like to see Talbot get at least 5 starts this month.

 

1 of Buff/La

1 of Col/Ari

Montreal

Minny

Chicago

 

January is a lighter month with a pretty balanced schedule. So manager December properly and then into a lighter January I think set up well for the rest of the year. 

 

Talbot has done well against LA and ANA.

Played well enough against DAL.

I would give Talbot LA, COL, Minny and maybe CHI.

Maybe MTL because they suck right now, but they are a desperate team.

[conundrumed]

8 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Oh this is me happy

 

So let's remove Rittich from the equation.

Where is our goaltending now?

The "why are we scouting him" argument falls a little flat, when you consider that he's one of the top 30 goalies on the planet now.

If you want to argue that, well...you better come armed.

[conundrumed]

From having been a goalie myself, I'm intrigued by the Tkachuk-Rittich bond. I've needed that. Have a crap night, "don't worry about it, I'll get it back".

Then when he does, well, time to start playing.

My core on this team is those two.

They look like they challenge each other.

[jjgallow]

9 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

So let's remove Rittich from the equation.

Where is our goaltending now?

The "why are we scouting him" argument falls a little flat, when you consider that he's one of the top 30 goalies on the planet now.

If you want to argue that, well...you better come armed.

 

The thing is that top 30 on the planet only impresses a mother.    Hundreds of goalies briefly touch top 30 and disappear as fast as they arrived.   Top 30 is 1B.  Keith Kinkaid's on waivers right now, he's been top 30 and more, many times.  From what everyone is arguing on here he should just be hitting his stride, we should snatch him up.

 

I think there's two considerations.   

One, I'm just always going to be known as an A-hole on here so, well, why fight it lol.

Two, I place a lot of value on those development minutes due to there being only one goalie position.   Those NHL and AHL minutes have extreme development value.

 

Any serious 1A goalie in this league Was afforded ample development minutes.

 

We have not afforded any young goalie with 1A this since 2004, really.  The results speak for themselves.

 

Riitich is just the latest example of many, where we sacrificed those minutes for the immediate or near term.  And we've been paying the ultimate price for it for 15 years now.   That and...yes...perhaps not the greatest G drafting.

 

 

So where are we now?   It depends how well Dustin Wolf can translate to the NHL.  With how we treat prospects like this, I don't like his chances.

[conundrumed]

2 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

The thing is that top 30 on the planet only impresses a mother.    Hundreds of goalies briefly touch top 30 and disappear as fast as they arrived.   Top 30 is 1B.  Keith Kinkaid's on waivers right now, he's been top 30 and more, many times.  From what everyone is arguing on here he should just be hitting his stride, we should snatch him up.

 

I think there's two considerations.   

One, I'm just always going to be known as an A-hole on here so, well, why fight it lol.

Two, I place a lot of value on those development minutes due to there being only one goalie position.   Those NHL and AHL minutes have extreme development value.

 

Any serious 1A goalie in this league Was afforded ample development minutes.

 

We have not afforded any young goalie with 1A this since 2004, really.  The results speak for themselves.

 

Riitich is just the latest example of many, where we sacrificed those minutes for the immediate or near term.  And we've been paying the ultimate price for it for 15 years now.   That and...yes...perhaps not the greatest G drafting.

 

 

So where are we now?   It depends how well Dustin Wolf can translate to the NHL.  With how we treat prospects like this, I don't like his chances.

How did all of the drafted goalies turn out again? It's a crapshoot. Who are you blaming this on? And why are you mad at Rittich again?

[jjgallow]

5 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

How did all of the drafted goalies turn out again? It's a crapshoot. Who are you blaming this on? And why are you mad at Rittich again?

 

Well, the one goalie that we would have been developing right now had we just done our job (which is the scouting I was referring to) instead of sending all our scouts to crap leagues trying to out-wit the system and renting these historical figures on their death beds (Elliot)..........................   Is Carter Hart.

 

So, turned out pretty good.   Among many other examples.    And yeah we should be proud of Riittich and for that I apologize but I can guarantee that if we offered up Rittich for Hart as a trade we'd be laughed at....hard.

[The_People1]

22 hours ago, DirtyDeeds said:

We picked up Kipper at age 27. He hit his prime (Vesina & Jennings 2006) at a young age of 30.

History shows that goaltenders don't hit their peak until closer to 30 years old. It is only recently that there have been a few younger goalies get cup runs and do well.

 

Check your PM please.

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Well, the one goalie that we would have been developing right now had we just done our job (which is the scouting I was referring to) instead of sending all our scouts to crap leagues trying to out-wit the system and renting these historical figures on their death beds (Elliot)..........................   Is Carter Hart.

 

So, turned out pretty good.   Among many other examples.    And yeah we should be proud of Riittich and for that I apologize but I can guarantee that if we offered up Rittich for Hart as a trade we'd be laughed at....hard.

 

we could’ve easily taken Demko instead of McDonald and there would’ve been a near starter right there. 
 

I don’t think we should be complaining about Rittich though. 
 

I am with you on the rest of the drafting though. I think we could have done more to find a goalie. 
 

like someone else stated earlier today. We could’ve had Vasilevski instead of Jankowski. 

[jjgallow]

14 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

we could’ve easily taken Demko instead of McDonald and there would’ve been a near starter right there. 
 

I don’t think we should be complaining about Rittich though. 
 

I am with you on the rest of the drafting though. I think we could have done more to find a goalie. 
 

like someone else stated earlier today. We could’ve had Vasilevski instead of Jankowski. 

 

I really don't want to go on about Riittich and I agree it is a side-note at best.

 

The Demko thing blew

 

my 

 

mind.

 

How...hard was it to just pick the goalie ranked in the first round.      with your 2nd round pick.

 

How .  hard.

 

We did that so much.  Back in the day.  we have...improved.  I must say.  But not enough, with goalies.

[conundrumed]

19 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Well, the one goalie that we would have been developing right now had we just done our job (which is the scouting I was referring to) instead of sending all our scouts to crap leagues trying to out-wit the system and renting these historical figures on their death beds (Elliot)..........................   Is Carter Hart.

 

So, turned out pretty good.   Among many other examples.    And yeah we should be proud of Riittich and for that I apologize but I can guarantee that if we offered up Rittich for Hart as a trade we'd be laughed at....hard.

But you can't look at it in a vacuum. Elliot could have been a good goalie for us. What options did we have at the time? We had no goalie. With the trade for our 2nd the Blues took Kyrou. So they didn't take Hart either and really lucked out last year with Berube knowing Binnington.
Easy to say Hart now looks like a future top shelf goalie, but not so easy at the time. Hindsight is 20-20.

The biggest for me was Vasilevsky. He was ranked 23rd oa and we had 14th pick. Being Russian, he gets downgraded although he crushed his draft year. Kipprusoff was going to need a plan. We sucked at C and these 2 jokers take a 5 yr plan at C and a lousy Dman whom I'd seen enough of. By trading down from 14 to recoup a 2nd.

So Yzerman says thanks, because he knows what he's doing. But Feaster and bonehead were arrogant. I doubt that they even considered Vasilevsky, because Ramo was so awesome.

Nothing stings harder than a mgmt group thinking they're smarter than everyone else. It never works, and you become the joke amongst GMs.

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

But you can't look at it in a vacuum. Elliot could have been a good goalie for us. What options did we have at the time? We had no goalie. With the trade for our 2nd the Blues took Kyrou. So they didn't take Hart either and really lucked out last year with Berube knowing Binnington.
Easy to say Hart now looks like a future top shelf goalie, but not so easy at the time. Hindsight is 20-20.

The biggest for me was Vasilevsky. He was ranked 23rd oa and we had 14th pick. Being Russian, he gets downgraded although he crushed his draft year. Kipprusoff was going to need a plan. We sucked at C and these 2 jokers take a 5 yr plan at C and a lousy Dman whom I'd seen enough of. By trading down from 14 to recoup a 2nd.

So Yzerman says thanks, because he knows what he's doing. But Feaster and bonehead were arrogant. I doubt that they even considered Vasilevsky, because Ramo was so awesome.

Nothing stings harder than a mgmt group thinking they're smarter than everyone else. It never works, and you become the joke amongst GMs.

 

Nothing like letting a lawyer decide a team's future.

This should have been a firing offense.

Instead we let this bozo try to sign ROR to an OS.

Trade Iggy and JBow for spare parts an a lousy 1st that he wastes.

[conundrumed]

I think this gets underplayed.

Feaster trades Iggy to Boston. It's announced as official. Iggy wouldn't waive, gets traded to Pittsburgh instead. Chiarelli looks like an idiot.

We hire Burke as PoHO the following year. Boston's first visit to Calgary, Burke fires Feaster the next day.

I highly doubt that this was coincidental. Feaster made Chiarelli look like an idiot. Burke knows decorum amongst GMs.

I'd have loved to be a fly on the wall when Burke told him why.

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

I think this gets underplayed.

Feaster trades Iggy to Boston. It's announced as official. Iggy wouldn't waive, gets traded to Pittsburgh instead. Chiarelli looks like an idiot.

We hire Burke as PoHO the following year. Boston's first visit to Calgary, Burke fires Feaster the next day.

I highly doubt that this was coincidental. Feaster made Chiarelli look like an idiot. Burke knows decorum amongst GMs.

I'd have loved to be a fly on the wall when Burke told him why.

 

I think the trade returns and the ROR fiasco had more to do with the firing than the Chia Syndrome.

Kipper blocked a trade and decided to "retire" after that sequence of events.

While Burke said the 1st round picks were A+ (publically), the other things made Feaster look like an idiot right away.