Goaltending

[redfire11]

Tough to win a game when you get 3-4 empty net goals against you.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

We’re in the midst of another 4 games in 6 nights, just like before Christmas.

It’s a tough go, but we’ve gotta deal with it.

Bennett should have sat last night for Czarnik imho.

 

As for Smith, not tracking the puck well at all and playing too deep has been going on all year now.

Time to ask, why isn’t this getting fixed?

Even Boston’s Asst coach Sacco said last night, after the 2nd, “we’ve gotta get pucks to the net because their goalie’s fighting the puck”.

Sigalet HAS to take some responsibility at this point. There is no sign this has been addressed in 3 months.

 

Sigalet supposedly told him to play deep in the net and let the play come to him.

He felt Smith was too active outside the crease and couldn't recover in time.

Awesome fix JS.

He played the same against Pitts, and now BOS.  Deep.

What I don't get is that he can't even cover the lower part of the net now.

2 goals against DET, where he covered less than a 3rd of it, down in the butterfly.

10 hole showing up against BOS.

High blocker side now exposed.

Used to be high glove.

[MAC331]

12 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Sigalet supposedly told him to play deep in the net and let the play come to him.

He felt Smith was too active outside the crease and couldn't recover in time.

Awesome fix JS.

He played the same against Pitts, and now BOS.  Deep.

What I don't get is that he can't even cover the lower part of the net now.

2 goals against DET, where he covered less than a 3rd of it, down in the butterfly.

10 hole showing up against BOS.

High blocker side now exposed.

Used to be high glove.

Back to the drawing board

[phoenix66]

11 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

Sigalet supposedly told him to play deep in the net and let the play come to him.

He felt Smith was too active outside the crease and couldn't recover in time.

Awesome fix JS.

He played the same against Pitts, and now BOS.  Deep.

What I don't get is that he can't even cover the lower part of the net now.

2 goals against DET, where he covered less than a 3rd of it, down in the butterfly.

10 hole showing up against BOS.

High blocker side now exposed.

Used to be high glove.

I feel bad for Smitty - funny we've flipped from start of season where the concern was how to keep him from being overworked because all we had was Rittich to spell him off , now we have to worry about who spells off Rittich

 

I dont think its all to do with his technique, rather he's lost a second or 2 in his reactions..i'm sure the new equipment plays a factor but all goalies have the same equipment now ..but there are definitely holes he never had before , hes not adapting like he should.

 

The need for an extremely solid #3 is real.one who could run in an emergency , and barring a miraculous resurgence now its safe to finally say this is Smith's last year , with us anyway.. so we can look to next year too, but whos available without giving up the farm?

 

1. give Gillies a start or 2.. maybe he'll surprise us , and since hes pencilled in as next years backup anyway , lets find out now 

2. Zach Fucale is buried in the minors, looked Good in Spengler ,  likely could be had without much pain 

3.Ben Scrivens I think is looking for work

4. Nick Schneider looked really good in his 11 games in Stockton 

 

Another option , would take some work .. we are sitting and trending towards "buyer"  mode for the deadline anyway .. (that's where you put your 1st rounder in play for a true rental)..maybe we take a run at Bob..no hope in re-signing him and we'd still have to work some more into it to to make it work for the cap , but Id be pretty stoked to go with Rittich and Bob ,,and youre not even stifling Rittich because he's purely a rental .

 

 

[MAC331]

13 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I feel bad for Smitty - funny we've flipped from start of season where the concern was how to keep him from being overworked because all we had was Rittich to spell him off , now we have to worry about who spells off Rittich

 

I dont think its all to do with his technique, rather he's lost a second or 2 in his reactions..i'm sure the new equipment plays a factor but all goalies have the same equipment now ..but there are definitely holes he never had before , hes not adapting like he should.

 

The need for an extremely solid #3 is real.one who could run in an emergency , and barring a miraculous resurgence now its safe to finally say this is Smith's last year , with us anyway.. so we can look to next year too, but whos available without giving up the farm?

 

1. give Gillies a start or 2.. maybe he'll surprise us , and since hes pencilled in as next years backup anyway , lets find out now 

2. Zach Fucale is buried in the minors, looked Good in Spengler ,  likely could be had without much pain 

3.Ben Scrivens I think is looking for work

4. Nick Schneider looked really good in his 11 games in Stockton 

 

Another option , would take some work .. we are sitting and trending towards "buyer"  mode for the deadline anyway .. (that's where you put your 1st rounder in play for a true rental)..maybe we take a run at Bob..no hope in re-signing him and we'd still have to work some more into it to to make it work for the cap , but Id be pretty stoked to go with Rittich and Bob ,,and youre not even stifling Rittich because he's purely a rental .

 

 

The situation has definitely become a delicate one. I am sure Smith is going through mental hell right now. I honestly don't think he will kill our chances should he be relegated to back up. All these other options are wild cards also and if you go after Bobrowsky he is going to cost assets this organization shouldn't be giving up IMO. Run with Rittich.

[redfire11]

27 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I feel bad for Smitty - funny we've flipped from start of season where the concern was how to keep him from being overworked because all we had was Rittich to spell him off , now we have to worry about who spells off Rittich

 

I dont think its all to do with his technique, rather he's lost a second or 2 in his reactions..i'm sure the new equipment plays a factor but all goalies have the same equipment now ..but there are definitely holes he never had before , hes not adapting like he should.

 

The need for an extremely solid #3 is real.one who could run in an emergency , and barring a miraculous resurgence now its safe to finally say this is Smith's last year , with us anyway.. so we can look to next year too, but whos available without giving up the farm?

 

1. give Gillies a start or 2.. maybe he'll surprise us , and since hes pencilled in as next years backup anyway , lets find out now 

2. Zach Fucale is buried in the minors, looked Good in Spengler ,  likely could be had without much pain 

3.Ben Scrivens I think is looking for work

4. Nick Schneider looked really good in his 11 games in Stockton 

 

Another option , would take some work .. we are sitting and trending towards "buyer"  mode for the deadline anyway .. (that's where you put your 1st rounder in play for a true rental)..maybe we take a run at Bob..no hope in re-signing him and we'd still have to work some more into it to to make it work for the cap , but Id be pretty stoked to go with Rittich and Bob ,,and youre not even stifling Rittich because he's purely a rental .

 

 

I would really like to see what Gilles can do. If Gilles can even put up a .910 average we have the offense to win these tight games. I would try Gilles before spending our 1st but would have no problem entertaining a trade if he pulls a Smith.

[conundrumed]

14 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

The situation has definitely become a delicate one. I am sure Smith is going through mental hell right now. I honestly don't think he will kill our chances should he be relegated to back up. All these other options are wild cards also and if you go after Bobrowsky he is going to cost assets this organization shouldn't be giving up IMO. Run with Rittich.

It’s a fine line for sure. If we’re giving up Kyl, Dube or a first and it doesn’t work out, it will hurt a lot.

[cross16]

I would personally give Gilles a try and I think Smith is done and won't recover. I think its both a reflex and a style problem that has just killed his confidence and this happens to someone later in their career. Problem though is Gilles has been really bad in Stockton so while many are going to say "we can't do worse" the answer actually is yes, it is very possible Gillies could be worse than Smith so it's not that simple an equation. 

 

They likely already are, but I think the answer probably likes externally. Options are pretty thin though and probably won't get better for a few weeks so I think they are going to have to keep trying to work with Smith or give Gilles a shot. 

[MAC331]

20 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

It’s a fine line for sure. If we’re giving up Kyl, Dube or a first and it doesn’t work out, it will hurt a lot.

This is exactly what I wouldn't be doing.

[cross16]

Until you give Rittich more opporutnity I don't see the value in spending big assets to get a "proven" guy. 

 

I do however, think you can give up less and pick up a more solid backup option. I think that is what Treliving will focus on, not the big fish. 

[phoenix66]

59 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Until you give Rittich more opportunity I don't see the value in spending big assets to get a "proven" guy. 

 

I do however, think you can give up less and pick up a more solid backup option. I think that is what Treliving will focus on, not the big fish. 

Oh agreed , a new #1 is not an option id be looking for  , I'm perfectly fine saying the Net belongs to BSD right now .. we are just in the same position as we were at start of the season except flipped .. now its Smith that we have no confidence in 

 

but like i said earlier, we're trending to the land of the Buyer now , that typically means 1st rounder in play .. id like to see us get a good backup with starter potential even in short spurts.. like a Fucale, or even might be able to get a Charlie LIndgren from Montreal

[cross16]

Getting a small fear that the Flames will rush Rittich back becuase they feel like they don't have another option....

 

 

[cross16]

2 hours ago, phoenix66 said:

Oh agreed , a new #1 is not an option id be looking for  , I'm perfectly fine saying the Net belongs to BSD right now .. we are just in the same position as we were at start of the season except flipped .. now its Smith that we have no confidence in 

 

but like i said earlier, we're trending to the land of the Buyer now , that typically means 1st rounder in play .. id like to see us get a good backup with starter potential even in short spurts.. like a Fucale, or even might be able to get a Charlie LIndgren from Montreal

 

Which is going to be tough as there are not a lot of those available. I definitely don't think the Flames should be using their first round pick. 

 

Guy that might foot the bill is Anton Forsberg. He had some buzz in Columbus for a while and Chicago put him in the Panarin deal but then they signed Ward in the off-season and when Crawford went down it wasn't Forsberg they turned to. If he was in the Panarin deal you would assume they like him but perhaps things have changed. Good AHL numbers and really good numbers in the Swedish league but has been mixed in the NHL. 

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Which is going to be tough as there are not a lot of those available. I definitely don't think the Flames should be using their first round pick. 

 

Guy that might foot the bill is Anton Forsberg. He had some buzz in Columbus for a while and Chicago put him in the Panarin deal but then they signed Ward in the off-season and when Crawford went down it wasn't Forsberg they turned to. If he was in the Panarin deal you would assume they like him but perhaps things have changed. Good AHL numbers and really good numbers in the Swedish league but has been mixed in the NHL. 

 

Well, I wonder if they just want to make sure their insurance goalie is playing regularly by sending him down. If they don’t need waivers, probably a good idea. 

 

The lack of goalies in the league is kind of alarming. Although, could the league be moving back to offensive hockey and less than what has been average goaltending over the past 15-20 years? 

[cross16]

38 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Well, I wonder if they just want to make sure their insurance goalie is playing regularly by sending him down. If they don’t need waivers, probably a good idea. 

 

The lack of goalies in the league is kind of alarming. Although, could the league be moving back to offensive hockey and less than what has been average goaltending over the past 15-20 years? 

 

He is wavier eligible. According to CapFriendly the recalled Colin Delia on emergency loan which means if they wanted to see Forsberg they could have done so without exposing him to waivers, which is what I thought perhaps could be the reason they went with Delia. Reading between the lines there but looks like he's down the pecking order to me but perhaps they are trying to move Cam Ward to accommodate (good luck with that)

 

I do think the equipment changes are making the goalies appear worse (ie looking at stats) so that is a factor. I think normally you'd look at someone with a sub .910 save % and suggest they arn't very good but that probably needs to change this year. That being said, I do think we are in a down era of goaltending. Even some of the goalies we consider to be elite or very good at this point are not the same level of good goalies of the past. Just a down era I think. 

[robrob74]

23 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

He is wavier eligible. According to CapFriendly the recalled Colin Delia on emergency loan which means if they wanted to see Forsberg they could have done so without exposing him to waivers, which is what I thought perhaps could be the reason they went with Delia. Reading between the lines there but looks like he's down the pecking order to me but perhaps they are trying to move Cam Ward to accommodate (good luck with that)

 

I do think the equipment changes are making the goalies appear worse (ie looking at stats) so that is a factor. I think normally you'd look at someone with a sub .910 save % and suggest they arn't very good but that probably needs to change this year. That being said, I do think we are in a down era of goaltending. Even some of the goalies we consider to be elite or very good at this point are not the same level of good goalies of the past. Just a down era I think. 

 

One thing that could be different is the change in style of play. The league is transitioning to a faster game, skilled skating players, including the D. More mistakes and higher margins of errors? The clutch and grab, hooking and hacking are slowly, hopefully continues to be more illegal. They way teams can play D is changing. 

 

Like you said, the .910 point could be lowering.

[Thebrewcrew]

32 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

One thing that could be different is the change in style of play. The league is transitioning to a faster game, skilled skating players, including the D. More mistakes and higher margins of errors? The clutch and grab, hooking and hacking are slowly, hopefully continues to be more illegal. They way teams can play D is changing. 

 

Like you said, the .910 point could be lowering.

Watched the Oilers game the other day, they had a graphic saying the league average this season is .904, I don’t totally trust the Oiler guys but it makes sense scoring is definitely up this season, whether it is equipment related or not im

not sure 

[redfire11]

Watching the Philly game and there is just no question who our starting Goalie is.

[travel_dude]

20 hours ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Watched the Oilers game the other day, they had a graphic saying the league average this season is .904, I don’t totally trust the Oiler guys but it makes sense scoring is definitely up this season, whether it is equipment related or not im

not sure 

 

Scoring is up for sure.

Kinda goes with SA% dropping, right?   

 

Many theories about it.

Great goalies having down years this year.

New generation of goal scorers shooting lights out.

 

Two sets of changes over the last two seasons; length of goalie pads and shape of chest protector.

That may be part of Smith's problems, but he gets scored on with every kind of shot.

Rittich has never seemed to be affected.

 

And, yes, Rittich is our defacto starter, no matter what you want to say about Smith.

Hegives you the chance to win.

That is all you can expect.

The backup has to give you at least average tending.

If not, they why is he even playing.

 

Some teams are picking up goalies like nothing.

Philly has 2 today that aren;t even regulars.  Elliott, Stilarz and Neuvirth out.

Some are due back.  None seem to be the solution. 

[MAC331]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Scoring is up for sure.

Kinda goes with SA% dropping, right?   

 

Many theories about it.

Great goalies having down years this year.

New generation of goal scorers shooting lights out.

 

Two sets of changes over the last two seasons; length of goalie pads and shape of chest protector.

That may be part of Smith's problems, but he gets scored on with every kind of shot.

Rittich has never seemed to be affected.

 

And, yes, Rittich is our defacto starter, no matter what you want to say about Smith.

Hegives you the chance to win.

That is all you can expect.

The backup has to give you at least average tending.

If not, they why is he even playing.

 

Some teams are picking up goalies like nothing.

Philly has 2 today that aren;t even regulars.  Elliott, Stilarz and Neuvirth out.

Some are due back.  None seem to be the solution. 

The one thing nobody is mentioning which can be very important is Smith being supportive of Rittich. We often hear about the value of mentorship and I believe we have that throughout this team. I wouldn't be to worried about leaving things the way they are now.

[Thebrewcrew]

Does anyone on here watch Stockton games? Are they horrendous defensively, or is the goaltending really that bad this year? Both Gillies and Parsons have awful stats, thank goodness Rittich has really emerged this season because it doesn’t look like we have the goalie pipeline we once thought 

[Khrox]

18 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Does anyone on here watch Stockton games? Are they horrendous defensively, or is the goaltending really that bad this year? Both Gillies and Parsons have awful stats, thank goodness Rittich has really emerged this season because it doesn’t look like we have the goalie pipeline we once thought 

Prout would likely be head and shoulders above the best Stockton D-man. Kylington was the only real prospect on D we had down there.

[cross16]

From Friedman. Believes neither Mrzaek or Mcelhinney available yet but potentially will be.

 

Quote

6. Carolina is not in a position to allow its potential unrestricted free agents to walk for nothing. They are far, far apart in negotiations with Micheal Ferland, so it looks like “when” not “if” for him. Pittsburgh makes sense, and so does Edmonton, but there will be others. The Hurricanes have told teams they would prefer to wait a little longer before deciding on goalies Curtis McElhinney and Petr Mrazek, although it can always change with the “offer you can’t refuse.” They are trying to re-sign another good depth winger, Jordan Martinook.

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-connor-mcdavid-elias-pettersson-calder-hart/

 

[travel_dude]

12 minutes ago, cross16 said:

From Friedman. Believes neither Mrzaek or Mcelhinney available yet but potentially will be.

 

 

 

I would take a flier on either goalie, but wouldn't want to give up that much for it.

3rd plus a pospect for either.

McBackup is found money for them, so they don't have to recoup that much.

Saying that, McBackup has real value to most teams needing a solid backup.

Mrazek has intrigued me. 

I personally think he is less risky than a broken Smith.

Broken as in he can't seem to find his game and age-wise seems unlikely to find it.

 

Do you think they would take Smith as partial payment?

Doesn't help them next season, but neither of those goalies do either.

Gives them a vet to help finish off their season.

 

[cross16]

They would probably take Smith if the Flames paid for it I would imagine. I can't imagine the price would be much more than a 3rd-4th round pick plus area but they may want something like a 2nd or a better prospect if Smith is in the deal.