Goaltending

[robrob74]

8 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

Some of the comments from BP on the Smith situation were strange.

Expects him to play on the 3 game road trip.

Nothing serious, just some maintenance.

 

If the 2nd period of the Flyers game was due to a little maintenance needed, then I don;t know what to say.

He played through something that didn;t feel right.

His last goal aganst was putrid.

Either be 100% or don't play buddy.

You're hurting the team by not talking about it.

 

Frankly, I want them to go with RIttich until Christmas.

Give the start to Gillies on the B2B.

Come back 100% in January.

 

Maybe he nutcrackered himself on that last goal he let in.

[conundrumed]

Rittich v Minny. One mistake can be it against Minny. Gillies against St. Loo. Tired team or not, St. Loo's D & G have been very suspicious. With St Loo we can have a high-scoring game if needed. Minny's a lot less room for error.

[travel_dude]

1 minute ago, robrob74 said:

 

Maybe he nutcrackered himself on that last goal he let in.

 

He didn;t go down like a sack of cement after.

He would have been flopping around, rightly so.

I didn;t much like any of the 2nd period goals against.

Sure, he had little help but he's played better than that.

If ot happened after the 1st goal, go to the bench and talk.

After the tyng goal....

Go ahead goal....

Really, he was giving the game away if he wasn;t right.

[travel_dude]

2 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Rittich v Minny. One mistake can be it against Minny. Gillies against St. Loo. Tired team or not, St. Loo's D & G have been very suspicious. With St Loo we can have a high-scoring game if needed. Minny's a lot less room for error.

 

Tend to agree.

Play your best chance to get points.

Also, play your best against the team closest to you in the standings.

[robrob74]

34 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

He didn;t go down like a sack of cement after.

He would have been flopping around, rightly so.

I didn;t much like any of the 2nd period goals against.

Sure, he had little help but he's played better than that.

If ot happened after the 1st goal, go to the bench and talk.

After the tyng goal....

Go ahead goal....

Really, he was giving the game away if he wasn;t right.

 

God, they’re on Flames Daily Roundtable and talking about how the Flames want Smith to be the #1, very invested into Smith being it. 

 

But apparently the Flames let higher number of High Danger Chances with Rittich in. The thought is it’s Smith’s ability to play the puck. 

 

But after all is said, I feel like the Flames are crazy to see things that way. 

 

Smith may have won his last bunch of games not including the last game. 

 

They think that he got bumped in the first period in his crease on a scramble where he had a tough time getting up. 

 

I am with you, if he was off, get out of the net and let a healthy body make the saves. It almost cost the win. If that’s the case for more games, then he’s gotta let his ego go and do the right thing.

[conundrumed]

18 hours ago, CheersMan said:

Your welcome son.

Never said Rittich got the mechanics all of a sudden, said the opposite in fact with 2.5yrs of mentorship and training within the organization.

Not every draft pick plays in the NHL. You tell me which goalies this organization handled poorly, then let get away only to move on to have long and successful NHL careers elsewhere then I will show you an atrocity.  

Hang about there guv'nor.

If you can't develop a goalie, their career ends. Kiprusoff was a one off from the Sharks ex-coach.

So I can't possibly name a name we developed well that became an icon, because it ends the kids career. Skaters are a polar opposite kettle of fish. They retain value.

It's rare, what are we talking Dubnyk from the Oil got good?

Bishop from Ottawa(?)?

 

Nobody from us. Is that drafting or developing?

I sway towards addressing development, because it's failing. Put more attention and detail at it.

I get most teams struggle with it. So why wouldn't it be prioritized better to firm Satoshi Nakamoto up?

If goalies are struggling, fix it. Hire someone that gets goaltending is all I'm saying.

I've read comments and seen video from Sigalet.

Don't like the stargazing and kid gloves tbh.

Seems more a friend than coach and boss.

I've attended camps and seen goalie drills. Nothing but shooting. No angle work, each hand work, steering aside shots etc. Just high danger area shots.

Why keep Sigalet in that spot without seeing progress? It has stagnated at the very least is the best I can say.

Where are we without Rittich right now?

And you can ask me to take that 2.5 yr leap of faith on the Flames with Rittich, but it's falling on deaf ears.

They've done nothing but hold him back. At the very moment Smith started looking okay, they're more than happy to hold him back again.

What does the guy have to do?

This is last years conversation. And the year before. Chad Johnson, whatshisname from Van.

Anyone but Rittich, evidently.

Paybacks a BTC and I hope he goes .920+ all year.

[cccsberg]

On 2018-12-11 at 10:01 AM, travel_dude said:

Let me be a bit more specific, so as not to confuse criticism with being a Neg. Nancy.

Smith has a few different things that he does:

1) stop the puck behind the net on a dump in

2) play a soft shot with his stick to his D after he gloves it down

3) make short passes with no traffic to his D

4) make longer passes in traffic to his D or a forward back in the zone

5) fire the puck up the glass

6) hang onto the puck behind the net with forecheckers coming at him and the defense less than 3 feet away

7) freeze the puck behind the net against the boards

8) fire a long pass to a streaking forward

 

I have zero issues with 1, 2, 3, and 8 if they are safe.  Even 4 can be made safely sometimes.

5 can result in a turnover, and mostly does because you are clearing the puck not moving it from goalie to D to F.

6 and 7 can work, but is risky most of the time.

8 can be picked off if not perfectly executed, much like the stretch pass doesn't always work.

 

I may be a minority here, but I prefer to control the breakout starting with a short pass to the D.  Use the goalie to do it in an emergency only.

 

 Very thoughtful summary.  I don’t disagree with your preferences, lower risk and all.  The thing is, these are not always available, and certainly not equally so.  Although you could possibly make a case that you can perfectly identify when the risky events occur, I believe that most of the time they are happenstance, i.e unpredictable primarily based on the defender’s movements, puck bouncing and ice condition.  If that is the case, at least the majority of the time, then he went in thinking it a “safe” play and, whoops, turned out to be more dangerous.  How do you criticize that?  Regardless, even with the dangerous cases, he”s only been burnt by a goal against 2-3 times that I recall, versus the dozens of time it didn’t.  Again, I contend pretty good odds......

[travel_dude]

16 minutes ago, cccsberg said:

 Very thoughtful summary.  I don’t disagree with your preferences, lower risk and all.  The thing is, these are not always available, and certainly not equally so.  Although you could possibly make a case that you can perfectly identify when the risky events occur, I believe that most of the time they are happenstance, i.e unpredictable primarily based on the defender’s movements, puck bouncing and ice condition.  If that is the case, at least the majority of the time, then he went in thinking it a “safe” play and, whoops, turned out to be more dangerous.  How do you criticize that?  Regardless, even with the dangerous cases, he”s only been burnt by a goal against 2-3 times that I recall, versus the dozens of time it didn’t.  Again, I contend pretty good odds......

 

I don't necessarily say a goal is the outcome right away.

So, Smith saves them a few steps by shooting it out of the zone or just to the waiting forward on the other team.

A couple of strides.

The puck instead comes back immediately, and we have possibly that shift played in the D-zone until a whistle or it's iced or cleared.

What could have been transition is defending.

Or with a tred group on an icing.

 

All I hear from analysts is how great his puck handling is.  One side of the story.

Another side of the story is how bad he is on low danger shots.

Low danger.  In other words, the place he is paying the puck to when he goes up the boards.

Just kidding.

Smith has played well enough in games lately to quiet some of the criticisms.  

I would not say he is back to form.

[stubblejumper1]

19 hours ago, cross16 said:

 

No love for Curtis Mcelhinney?

 

Joking aside, yes you are right. 

 

I was going to say Dwayne Roloson...but he was never drafted.  It turns out that he was a free agent signing out of college.  However, he was developed in the Flames farm system and then went on to become a pretty good goalie.  

[Cowtownguy]

15 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Hang about there guv'nor.

If you can't develop a goalie, their career ends. Kiprusoff was a one off from the Sharks ex-coach.

So I can't possibly name a name we developed well that became an icon, because it ends the kids career. Skaters are a polar opposite kettle of fish. They retain value.

It's rare, what are we talking Dubnyk from the Oil got good?

Bishop from Ottawa(?)?

 

Nobody from us. Is that drafting or developing?

I sway towards addressing development, because it's failing. Put more attention and detail at it.

I get most teams struggle with it. So why wouldn't it be prioritized better to firm Satoshi Nakamoto up?

If goalies are struggling, fix it. Hire someone that gets goaltending is all I'm saying.

I've read comments and seen video from Sigalet.

Don't like the stargazing and kid gloves tbh.

Seems more a friend than coach and boss.

I've attended camps and seen goalie drills. Nothing but shooting. No angle work, each hand work, steering aside shots etc. Just high danger area shots.

Why keep Sigalet in that spot without seeing progress? It has stagnated at the very least is the best I can say.

Where are we without Rittich right now?

And you can ask me to take that 2.5 yr leap of faith on the Flames with Rittich, but it's falling on deaf ears.

They've done nothing but hold him back. At the very moment Smith started looking okay, they're more than happy to hold him back again.

What does the guy have to do?

This is last years conversation. And the year before. Chad Johnson, whatshisname from Van.

Anyone but Rittich, evidently.

Paybacks a BTC and I hope he goes .920+ all year.

I was complaining about that myself some time ago right after we signed him. I could not understand why it took some time to give Rittich a serious look in the NHL. Now, it seems as though he has showed promise, and there is still a reluctance to insert him into the lineup.

[MAC331]

21 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

I was complaining about that myself some time ago right after we signed him. I could not understand why it took some time to give Rittich a serious look in the NHL. Now, it seems as though he has showed promise, and there is still a reluctance to insert him into the lineup.

Any team needs two goalies to win and especially us. What is happening with our two right now trying to manage the psyche of both. Undoubtedly Smith is causing some havoc now but you can't or shouldn't simply right him off. Rittich was to be the back up and if we are being honest with ourselves he is doing an outstanding job. The coaches IMO have the better feel for the situation than any sideline observations.

[Cowtownguy]

1 minute ago, MAC331 said:

Any team needs two goalies to win and especially us. What is happening with our two right now trying to manage the psyche of both. Undoubtedly Smith is causing some havoc now but you can't or shouldn't simply right him off. Rittich was to be the back up and if we are being honest with ourselves he is doing an outstanding job. The coaches IMO have the better feel for the situation than any sideline observations.

I agree that the coaches usually have a better feel for the team than outsiders do. Having said that, there are times when coaches miss things. I will point to the last two years as evidence. I am one of the few who believed that Smith was, or was close to being a truly #1 goaltender. I am not sure that this is the same guy. I don't know what is wrong, but it certainly seems significant, and I am sure that Treliving is looking around.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

2 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Any team needs two goalies to win and especially us. What is happening with our two right now trying to manage the psyche of both. Undoubtedly Smith is causing some havoc now but you can't or shouldn't simply right him off. Rittich was to be the back up and if we are being honest with ourselves he is doing an outstanding job. The coaches IMO have the better feel for the situation than any sideline observations.

I think the problem alot of people have is that it seems that its not BP calling the shots. From the sidelines it sometimes seems the Sigalet or even Smith himself having too much influence.

[CheersMan]

19 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

Thats Spooky, but I think Niemi needs to be added. 12 is still a really low number.

No sir, I believe Niemi was undrafted.
 

16 hours ago, conundrumed said:

Hang about there guv'nor.

If you can't develop a goalie, their career ends. Kiprusoff was a one off from the Sharks ex-coach.

So I can't possibly name a name we developed well that became an icon, because it ends the kids career. Skaters are a polar opposite kettle of fish. They retain value.

It's rare, what are we talking Dubnyk from the Oil got good?

Bishop from Ottawa(?)?

 

Nobody from us. Is that drafting or developing?

I sway towards addressing development, because it's failing. Put more attention and detail at it.

I get most teams struggle with it. So why wouldn't it be prioritized better to firm Satoshi Nakamoto up?

If goalies are struggling, fix it. Hire someone that gets goaltending is all I'm saying.

I've read comments and seen video from Sigalet.

Don't like the stargazing and kid gloves tbh.

Seems more a friend than coach and boss.

I've attended camps and seen goalie drills. Nothing but shooting. No angle work, each hand work, steering aside shots etc. Just high danger area shots.

Why keep Sigalet in that spot without seeing progress? It has stagnated at the very least is the best I can say.

Where are we without Rittich right now?

And you can ask me to take that 2.5 yr leap of faith on the Flames with Rittich, but it's falling on deaf ears.

They've done nothing but hold him back. At the very moment Smith started looking okay, they're more than happy to hold him back again.

What does the guy have to do?

This is last years conversation. And the year before. Chad Johnson, whatshisname from Van.

Anyone but Rittich, evidently.

Paybacks a BTC and I hope he goes .920+ all year.

I think if he continues to do what he has been doing the job could be his before the season is out, might be his already, but goaltending is all about "what have you done for me lately". Smith goes 6-0 then lets in a stinker and some want him pinned to the bench. If Ritter goes 6-0 from today and then lets in a stinker, I hope fans would be a little more lenient with him. If Ritter goes 0.920+ all year we gonna do some damage. 

 

11 teams (including us) have won a SC since 89 with a goalie they drafted, wonder how the other 20 teams feel about their goaltending drafting and development.

[CheersMan]

39 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I think the problem alot of people have is that it seems that its not BP calling the shots. From the sidelines it sometimes seems the Sigalet or even Smith himself having too much influence.

I think that is a misconception from the fans, Sigalet makes his suggestions because he is closer to it, that's his job, but the Head Coach makes the final call, and that goes for every player on the ice.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, Cowtownguy said:

I agree that the coaches usually have a better feel for the team than outsiders do. Having said that, there are times when coaches miss things. I will point to the last two years as evidence. I am one of the few who believed that Smith was, or was close to being a truly #1 goaltender. I am not sure that this is the same guy. I don't know what is wrong, but it certainly seems significant, and I am sure that Treliving is looking around.

Coaches absolutely miss things and make the wrong call which can be the difference between having a winning season and a losing one. I don't think Smith has been any good since he got hurt last season. Harsh decision but if he doesn't come around real soon BT should release him.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

I think the problem alot of people have is that it seems that its not BP calling the shots. From the sidelines it sometimes seems the Sigalet or even Smith himself having too much influence.

Nothing wrong with a collaborative effort but in the end BP has to make that call.

[Cowtownguy]

11 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Coaches absolutely miss things and make the wrong call which can be the difference between having a winning season and a losing one. I don't think Smith has been any good since he got hurt last season. Harsh decision but if he doesn't come around real soon BT should release him.

I suspect that most fans have noticed his decline since that injury. If memory serves, I think it was just before our break. We were still in a playoff position (or close to one), and his play started to trail off. Now, it seems when he is better, he makes a few really good saves and lets in a terrible one. The desire still seems to be there, but the ability (mentally or physically), does not seem to be. I hope he turns it around.

[travel_dude]

6 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

I suspect that most fans have noticed his decline since that injury. If memory serves, I think it was just before our break. We were still in a playoff position (or close to one), and his play started to trail off. Now, it seems when he is better, he makes a few really good saves and lets in a terrible one. The desire still seems to be there, but the ability (mentally or physically), does not seem to be. I hope he turns it around.

 

January was great, until the break.

Then the team and Mikey flipped a switch to OFF.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, CheersMan said:

I think that is a misconception from the fans, Sigalet makes his suggestions because he is closer to it, that's his job, but the Head Coach makes the final call, and that goes for every player on the ice.

 

8 minutes ago, Cowtownguy said:

I suspect that most fans have noticed his decline since that injury. If memory serves, I think it was just before our break. We were still in a playoff position (or close to one), and his play started to trail off. Now, it seems when he is better, he makes a few really good saves and lets in a terrible one. The desire still seems to be there, but the ability (mentally or physically), does not seem to be. I hope he turns it around.

 

I get smith won 6 games but he also got the easiest starts in that stretch. He still let in some bad goals in that stretch as well, just did not hurt the team like it could have in the last game.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

13 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Coaches absolutely miss things and make the wrong call which can be the difference between having a winning season and a losing one. I don't think Smith has been any good since he got hurt last season. Harsh decision but if he doesn't come around real soon BT should release him.

For what Smith brings right now there isnt very many options in replacing him.  His trade value right now is up for debate and how much do you want to disrupt the current roster to get a trade done? who is a realistic replacement? Any goalie that could be available is either a lateral move or out of the price range.

[conundrumed]

2 hours ago, CheersMan said:

No sir, I believe Niemi was undrafted.
 

I think if he continues to do what he has been doing the job could be his before the season is out, might be his already, but goaltending is all about "what have you done for me lately". Smith goes 6-0 then lets in a stinker and some want him pinned to the bench. If Ritter goes 6-0 from today and then lets in a stinker, I hope fans would be a little more lenient with him. If Ritter goes 0.920+ all year we gonna do some damage. 

 

11 teams (including us) have won a SC since 89 with a goalie they drafted, wonder how the other 20 teams feel about their goaltending drafting and development.

Don't count me as 1 who wants Smith pinned to the bench. I just want to see him get the time to work out the kinks while Rittich's playing well.

Not ragging on Smith, just see he needs some time to get right. 1a and 1b would be great, every other game, get both hot and keep them there.

Lower everyone's blood pressure. lol

 

I don't really care about stats and other teams developing G. I know every team struggles with it. But I want this particular team to take the lead and throw more and better assets at drafting and developing G.

I tend to look at it differently. Most every team struggles with it but nothing changes.

There has to be a better way and better answers. Not, "just the way it is". Because the way it is doesn't work.

[MAC331]

1 hour ago, Cowtownguy said:

I suspect that most fans have noticed his decline since that injury. If memory serves, I think it was just before our break. We were still in a playoff position (or close to one), and his play started to trail off. Now, it seems when he is better, he makes a few really good saves and lets in a terrible one. The desire still seems to be there, but the ability (mentally or physically), does not seem to be. I hope he turns it around.

I hope so to because to be honest I don't think BT has any intention of seeing him out the door.

[JTech780]

We are going to need both goalies playing around 40-45 games each. Smith can't play 50+ games anymore and Rittich has never played more than 48 games in a season at any level. I think you run two goalies and run with the hot hand in the playoffs.

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, CheersMan said:

No sir, I believe Niemi was undrafted.
 

I think if he continues to do what he has been doing the job could be his before the season is out, might be his already, but goaltending is all about "what have you done for me lately". Smith goes 6-0 then lets in a stinker and some want him pinned to the bench. If Ritter goes 6-0 from today and then lets in a stinker, I hope fans would be a little more lenient with him. If Ritter goes 0.920+ all year we gonna do some damage. 

 

11 teams (including us) have won a SC since 89 with a goalie they drafted, wonder how the other 20 teams feel about their goaltending drafting and development.

 

This is not about Smith and his recent run.

It's about consistency.

Smith gets some wins against team struggling.

Rittich gets a few no-show games, but plays the same way every game.

Today was no different.

Every save was played the way you want the goalie to react.

Player cuts in front of the net alone, goalie tracks him and gets the leg out with the blocker.

Screened shot, cover as much of the bottom of the net as you can.

Don't over committ.

 

We need both goalies playing at the top of their game.

Don;t need a 75% Smith out there, keeping his injury to himself.

Whenever it happened, it should not be a Mike Smith decision alone.