Goaltending

[MAC331]

I'm really looking forward to our goalie play to start this season.  That is ALL of the goalies, from Parsons and Schneider in Junior to McDonald, Gillies and Rittich in the AHL/ECHL and Elliot and Johnson in the NHL.  With the two NHL goalies unsigned and the issues around the Expansion Draft I'd anticipate some extensions being signed mid-season so the early play will probably go a long ways to determining what our goalie outlook will be to end the season and going into 2017.   It could easily be almost exactly the same to very, very different with major changes at every level.  Most of all I'm hoping they all have excellent seasons so no matter which direction we end up going we'll have great options in them all.

There have already been rumors of signing Elliott to an extension. If they could nail him down for 4.5M over 3 or 4 years our goaltending would be in good shape given what we have coming.

[Flyerfan52]

There have already been rumors of signing Elliott to an extension. If they could nail him down for 4.5M over 3 or 4 years our goaltending would be in good shape given what we have coming.

Way too soon. See how he looks under a heavier workload than he's used to 1st.

Also, before the expansion draft there will be dang good goalies on the market cheap as teams try to salvage something/anything rather than lose a valuable player for nothing.

[The_People1]

There have already been rumors of signing Elliott to an extension. If they could nail him down for 4.5M over 3 or 4 years our goaltending would be in good shape given what we have coming.

 

Depends on how Gillies develops.  We wouldn't want to run into a situation in 2 years where we have Elliott relegated to back-up status for $4.5-mil-per.

[rickross]

It was interesting to hear how close the Flames were in acquiring Bishop from TBL, Elliot is by far the more cost efficient option but would we be better off in terms of pure goaltending had we traded for Bishop over Elliot? It's hard to stop if Bishop is that much further ahead of Elliot if he is at all.

[MAC331]

Depends on how Gillies develops.  We wouldn't want to run into a situation in 2 years where we have Elliott relegated to back-up status for $4.5-mil-per.

You can always trade if the player is priced properly.

It was interesting to hear how close the Flames were in acquiring Bishop from TBL, Elliot is by far the more cost efficient option but would we be better off in terms of pure goaltending had we traded for Bishop over Elliot? It's hard to stop if Bishop is that much further ahead of Elliot if he is at all.

I think we dodged a bullet by not doing a Bishop deal. he was seeking 7M plus and has quite the injury history. Elliott is a solid option for us and FF is likely correct in the Flames sees how it goes with a heavier workload before extending him for better money.

[travel_dude]

You can always trade if the player is priced properly.

I think we dodged a bullet by not doing a Bishop deal. he was seeking 7M plus and has quite the injury history. Elliott is a solid option for us and FF is likely correct in the Flames sees how it goes with a heavier workload before extending him for better money.

 

According to Bishop, the numbers that were reported were not even close to reality.

[cross16]

I think you start your posts off with carefully worded but inflammatory and instigating remarks to start long and drawn out conversations so that you can avoid chores your wife gives you, and add to your 15,000 some odd posts lol.

 

But I could be wrong.

 

He likes offense and excitement.   So in terms of us having some offensive defenceman..sure.  I guess you could say he's into defencemen.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/new-flames-coach-glen-gulutzan-talks-offensive-strategy-goals-1.3641687

 

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/gulutzan-named-flames-coach-wants-to-make-calgary-a-exciting-connected-team/

 

Well I can't say you are wrong about that one JJ. 

 

but you are making a huge leap if you are using those 2 quotes to justify that opinion. First of all, liking offence and excitment does NOT mean you don't care about defence. Goals tend to win hockey games when you score more than the other team. Keep in mind you are talking about a coach who spent the last 3 years coaching Dmen in Vancouver.

 

You can play exciting  up tempo hockey and still be a really good defensive team. See Pittsburgh last year, or any team coached by Babcock or Quenville, Tampa Bay etc. 

[rickross]

Ortio just signed in Sweden. Wish him well, still get the feeling he has some untapped potential there. Man..we really don't have luck drafting goalies!

[conundrumed]

Ortio just signed in Sweden. Wish him well, still get the feeling he has some untapped potential there. Man..we really don't have luck drafting goalies!

With Gillies, MacDonald and now Parsons, I think our luck is about to change.

[jjgallow]

It was interesting to hear how close the Flames were in acquiring Bishop from TBL, Elliot is by far the more cost efficient option but would we be better off in terms of pure goaltending had we traded for Bishop over Elliot? It's hard to stop if Bishop is that much further ahead of Elliot if he is at all.

 

Elliot is better than Bishop imho.  Quite a bit better.   Under-rated.

[jjgallow]

Well I can't say you are wrong about that one JJ. 

 

but you are making a huge leap if you are using those 2 quotes to justify that opinion. First of all, liking offence and excitment does NOT mean you don't care about defence. Goals tend to win hockey games when you score more than the other team. Keep in mind you are talking about a coach who spent the last 3 years coaching Dmen in Vancouver.

 

You can play exciting  up tempo hockey and still be a really good defensive team. See Pittsburgh last year, or any team coached by Babcock or Quenville, Tampa Bay etc. 

 

I guess we will see soon, I can't wait for this off-season to pass.

 

I agree with you on 

Babcock, Quenville.   

 

Have the Flames acquired the next Babcock or Quenville? 

 

I don't see Vancouver's defensive record the last few years as a reason to assume the man responsible for it, is the next Babcock or Quenville.    Nor do I feel that way when I look at his results for Any team he's coached, really.   Nor do I feel that way when he talks.   Although hey, I'll give him this....he's going to make for much more engaging press conferences than Dutter

 

It just looks, a lot, like when the Flames hired Dutter, they hired him based off of his track record and results.   While with this new guy, they hired him based off his interview skills.

 

Let's hope I'm wrong.

[jjgallow]

Depends on how Gillies develops.  We wouldn't want to run into a situation in 2 years where we have Elliott relegated to back-up status for $4.5-mil-per.

 

Yup.   Agreed.    It's a lot to ride on one prospect, that said, Elliot is 30.  He is our Now goalie.   He won't be getting younger and he's likely not the next Tim Thomas.  Although you never know.

[MAC331]

Yup.   Agreed.    It's a lot to ride on one prospect, that said, Elliot is 30.  He is our Now goalie.   He won't be getting younger and he's likely not the next Tim Thomas.  Although you never know.

Gillies looked good in Penticton yesterday. MacDonald, Parson and Schneider makes up a good pipeline so not sure we should be complaining or finding fault with what we have now. Elliott could very well be the next Tim Thomas for all we know given a full opportunity, which he never got in STL. Should he have a good season I would look for BT to extend or re-sign him to a new deal.

[jjgallow]

Ortio just signed in Sweden. Wish him well, still get the feeling he has some untapped potential there. Man..we really don't have luck drafting goalies!

 

Good For Him!

 

http://thehockeywriters.com/former-flames-prospect-joni-ortio-signs-with-swedish-club/

 

He made a wise choice imho.   Signed with the best team in the SHL by far, with a very decent opportunity to be their #1.

 

He's set himself up with the right environment to develop in, albeit late in the game.   He's set himself up to prove everyone wrong and I hope he does.

[DirtyDeeds]

I guess we will see soon, I can't wait for this off-season to pass.

 

I agree with you on 

Babcock, Quenville.   

 

Have the Flames acquired the next Babcock or Quenville? 

 

I don't see Vancouver's defensive record the last few years as a reason to assume the man responsible for it, is the next Babcock or Quenville.    Nor do I feel that way when I look at his results for Any team he's coached, really.   Nor do I feel that way when he talks.   Although hey, I'll give him this....he's going to make for much more engaging press conferences than Dutter

 

It just looks, a lot, like when the Flames hired Dutter, they hired him based off of his track record and results.   While with this new guy, they hired him based off his interview skills.

 

Let's hope I'm wrong.

Can"t be the reason why he was hired, BH has much better interview skills.

 

I wonder what they see in him that makes him such a great hire too. Was working as Asst. to Willie Desjardins so life transforming?

 

What exactly did he accomplish in Dallas? L. Ruff got them going when he was unable to.

[MAC331]

Can"t be the reason why he was hired, BH has much better interview skills.

 

I wonder what they see in him that makes him such a great hire too. Was working as Asst. to Willie Desjardins so life transforming?

 

What exactly did he accomplish in Dallas? L. Ruff got them going when he was unable to.

There is a time and place for everyone, who knows what talent levels were when he was in DAL or any other team for that matter. People in hockey circles talk very highly of GG so why would he not get another opportunity in the NHL.

Throwing him in the talk with Quenville and Babcock is hardly fair at this stage. Give the guy a chance.

[robrob74]

Can"t be the reason why he was hired, BH has much better interview skills.

I wonder what they see in him that makes him such a great hire too. Was working as Asst. to Willie Desjardins so life transforming?

What exactly did he accomplish in Dallas? L. Ruff got them going when he was unable to.

I think a lot are basing GG on the results. Let's look at what he has had to work with in those coaching situation. At the NHL level from what I know, the few teams:

Dallas

Not a playoff team due to player personel, and where were they within a build, rebuild? Did he teach and get the players to improve and play better?

Vancouver:

On a down turn. The Sedins have been their best players and who were their defensive players?

Aging and on the down. They did well in a year they thought they weren't going to make the playoffs. The next year was worse as the players got a year older and some reduction to the team.

Has he ever had a complete team to work with?

In a year or two, we should be as close to complete in a long time. Has he had a history of working well with young players? Does he know how to motivate them?

[MAC331]

I think a lot are basing GG on the results. Let's look at what he has had to work with in those coaching situation. At the NHL level from what I know, the few teams:

Dallas

Not a playoff team due to player personel, and where were they within a build, rebuild? Did he teach and get the players to improve and play better?

Vancouver:

On a down turn. The Sedins have been their best players and who were their defensive players?

Aging and on the down. They did well in a year they thought they weren't going to make the playoffs. The next year was worse as the players got a year older and some reduction to the team.

Has he ever had a complete team to work with?

In a year or two, we should be as close to complete in a long time. Has he had a history of working well with young players? Does he know how to motivate them?

It is always hard to say what kind of influence someone like GG had on a team such as DAL at the time and after he left. Lindy Ruff is not a coach you pass on if you can get him and I think this is the route DAL took. VAN has become quite an assignment and will continue as such for awhile yet. If GG was not given this opportunity I'm sure he would be in VAN to continue the task there. He seems like a good hockey man and I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do for our team.

[jjgallow]

Can"t be the reason why he was hired, BH has much better interview skills.

 

I wonder what they see in him that makes him such a great hire too. Was working as Asst. to Willie Desjardins so life transforming?

 

What exactly did he accomplish in Dallas? L. Ruff got them going when he was unable to.

 

BH was the Feaster regime, and despite all his interview skills there were clearly differences of opinion.

 

Totally agree with you.  We're taking quite the chance here.   This is the coaching equivalent of going off the board in the draft, and that's what makes me nervous.

 

But give him a chance?  Absolutely.   Always.   Will definitely give him a chance.  I would caution those who make statements like "we improved our defence because we acquired an unproven coach who talks good".   That's a leap of faith I can't make.    But give him a chance, absolutely.

 

Then there's the arguement that GG has never had a fair chance.  

 

Well that's fair, that's my Ortio arguement too.

 

But nobody seems to agree with me on that one.    Because, no matter who's fault it is, Ortio's not where he should be (yet). 

 

The same can be said of GG's track record, no matter who's fault it is.   This is a gamble.   It might be a good one, but we should know it for what it is.

[DirtyDeeds]

On a side note Gilles seemed on top of his game last night. I am now very much excited for his continued development if this is the first game back after his surgery...

[travel_dude]

On a side note Gilles seemed on top of his game last night. I am now very much excited for his continued development if this is the first game back after his surgery...

 

Yes.....goaltending.  I like his positioning and he looked very smooth.  Not bad for a guy that hasn't played a game in 11 months.

We get a first chance to see Parsons tonight against the Oil Kings.  Ooops I mean Pulju and the Kings.  Demko got lit up a bit last night, so we have to provide Parsons with some defense against the top line.  

[jjgallow]

On a side note Gilles seemed on top of his game last night. I am now very much excited for his continued development if this is the first game back after his surgery...

 

He looked great. 

 

Happy with the combination of him and Parsons in our prospect pool.

 

But I don't think we should forget about Schneider and Rittich either.   Gillies seems the most likely to rise up, but they all could.

[travel_dude]

He looked great. 

 

Happy with the combination of him and Parsons in our prospect pool.

 

But I don't think we should forget about Schneider and Rittich either.   Gillies seems the most likely to rise up, but they all could.

 

Then you would agree that we have good prospects and a pair of good NHL goalies going forward.

[jjgallow]

Then you would agree that we have good prospects and a pair of good NHL goalies going forward.

 

Hey I was Trying to be supportive

 

We are definitely upgraded.   But we have been upgraded in the past, and screwed it all up.  I have questions.  Many questions.

 

But I specifically support:

• The acquisition of Elliot
• The acquisition of Parsons
• The acquisition of Schneider

 

The acquisition of Johnson and Rittich have me confused, although I am hoping for the best for both of them.

 

I am sure you can imagine my thoughts on Ortio.  I hope these new prospects have a better fate.  Actually...I hope Ortio has a better fate too.  I hope he rocks it this year, wins the SHL championship, and comes back to the NHL next year.

 

I am unlikely to stop complaining about goaltending this year (of course it will be better).

 

 

But, more concerning, is that I may not be the only one who still complains.   I base that on the fact that we did not upgrade our defence, and did not address goaltender coaching and development meaningfully.

[travel_dude]

The goaltending development depends a lot on the goalies themselves.  Gillies will get tons of ice this season.  Parsons will go back to junior.  

 

Johnson played 1/2 a season, so he is there in case we want to limit Elliott to less than 60.  Who else were we going to use?  Rittich was signed to have a backup for Gillies.  You don't want to have your current #2 goalie prospect turning pro to be a AHL backup do you?

McDonald will see plenty of ice in the ECHL.  Probably rotates with Rittich to keep fresh as well.

 

It's time to close the book on Ortio's time in the NHL.  Too many younger guys coming into the league.  Unless he manages to be consistent in Europe for more than a year, you won't see him back.