Goaltending

[phoenix66]

A Lehtonen buyout is possible, which would get him for us cheap. We're still buying time to "fix" the position.

Why would we want Lehtonen??? He's no better than Ramo in fact I'd consider him to be worse.Ramo swings from good to very good. Lehtonen doesn't swing..He's either good or Hilleresque.

If we consider this we should just resign Ramo and get it over with

[MAC331]

Why would we want Lehtonen??? He's no better than Ramo in fact I'd consider him to be worse.Ramo swings from good to very good. Lehtonen doesn't swing..He's either good or Hilleresque.

If we consider this we should just resign Ramo and get it over with

I think BT will pull off a quality deal for a potentially good to future great goaltender.

[travel_dude]

Watching tonight's NAS/SJS game, I wonder what it would take to get RInne out of NAS.  There was absolutely no defensive support for him, I don't blame him for destroying his stick after the 5th goal.  He played the puck, rushed the zone a few times, kept the Preds in the game early, but he can't do everything himself.  Put him behind our D, and let's see what happens.

 

EDIT: Nevermind.  Just checked General Fanager, and he's a $7M cap hit through 2018-19   http://www.generalfanager.com/players/1203

 

Any trade involving Rinne would need to include retained salary.  Or sending back a huge contract.  Wideman and a pick/prospect would be a huge win for CGY.  Maybe unrealistic, but at least a starting point for discussion.  Nashville is a little light on D after the top 3.  Ekholm is an up-and-comer.  Jackman has little offense.  Great shutdown guy, but adds little.

 

Nashville is a tale of two teams.  The older guys like Fisher.  The newer guys like Jossi and RJ.  What could they possibly want that we can afford?

[phoenix66]

I think BT will pull off a quality deal for a potentially good to future great goaltender.

I agree with this. He was in on both Jones and Talbot last year. I'm sure his eye will be on someone quite similar.

I'm still fully expecting Reimer but there's gonna be one we didn't see coming.

[cross16]

The more I think about this, the more I think there are going to be alot of goalies avaialable this offseason. The expansion draft sure sounds like its a given but even outside of that its shapping up to be a busy summer for goalies.

 

F.Anderson

Mike smith

Varlamov/Pickard

Keumper

Halak

Fleury

Vasilevsky

 

I can see all of those guys being available in trade, plus available UFA, plus going after a lesser name/AHL standout, plus a team like St Louis that will need to figure out an answer too.

 

I'm not worried at all about finding a goalie. Flames have the assets and cap space to make it work and I think they are going to have a large selection to pick from. 

[bosn111]

Kuemper is a possibility as an RFA. He was signed at 1.5 mil last contract. The knock for me is that he has never played more than 31 games in an NHL season. This past season he played 21 games. He had 84 regular season games and 9 playoff games in 4 seasons. At .915 sv% he shows better than Ramo and Ortio but not that significantly. In his 31 game season his sv% dropped to.905. If he is brought in as a backup, no worries. It would be a risk to make him the starter.

Andersen has better numbers and is also RFA. He has played 50+ games in a single season with a .914 sv% which is good but still below the .920 mark. He is an upgrade for the Flames for sure. What will it cost to trade for his rights and what cost to sign him? I would guess he is looking at similar price contract wise as Gibson at 3 - 3.5. That would be a solid contract. The issue for me is what The ducks will want back.

Vasilevsky would have a lower contract based on a smaller body of work. He does have better numbers than Ramo and Ortio but has played a maximum of 24 games in a single season. You are taking a risk if he proves he cannot handle 50+ games a season in the NHL.

Halak is a bonified starter with solid numbers but comes with a hefty contract at 4.5 mil cap hit for 2 more seasons. Since he is signed, what will the Islanders expect in return? They know he is worth quite a bit so what will the Flames need to give up?

Allen and Elliot are both signed to a combined 5.2 mil cap hit. I don't seethe Blues needing to move either one until after next season. If one or the other is moved, it will cost a hefty price.

Any UFA you get will be a risk to see if they can climb out of the shadows to take the reigns successfully such as Reimer, Scrivens or Khubodin. They are former starters forced out by young guys like Ward or career backups like Montoya. Chad Johnson shows potential at 30 years old though he has never carried a team. Any other FA has not proved anything to show they would or should have a shot as a starter.

Given suggested options, Anderssen would be my first choice depending on trade cost. Either blues goalie would be next followed by Halak. Johnson would be a possibility but I wouldn't go over 2.5 knowing he is an upgrade on Ramo but still likely a stop gap. Not a fan of re-treads. The issue for any of these is trade cost, not cap hit.

[MAC331]

Kuemper is a possibility as an RFA. He was signed at 1.5 mil last contract. The knock for me is that he has never played more than 31 games in an NHL season. This past season he played 21 games. He had 84 regular season games and 9 playoff games in 4 seasons. At .915 sv% he shows better than Ramo and Ortio but not that significantly. In his 31 game season his sv% dropped to.905. If he is brought in as a backup, no worries. It would be a risk to make him the starter.

Andersen has better numbers and is also RFA. He has played 50+ games in a single season with a .914 sv% which is good but still below the .920 mark. He is an upgrade for the Flames for sure. What will it cost to trade for his rights and what cost to sign him? I would guess he is looking at similar price contract wise as Gibson at 3 - 3.5. That would be a solid contract. The issue for me is what The ducks will want back.

Vasilevsky would have a lower contract based on a smaller body of work. He does have better numbers than Ramo and Ortio but has played a maximum of 24 games in a single season. You are taking a risk if he proves he cannot handle 50+ games a season in the NHL.

Halak is a bonified starter with solid numbers but comes with a hefty contract at 4.5 mil cap hit for 2 more seasons. Since he is signed, what will the Islanders expect in return? They know he is worth quite a bit so what will the Flames need to give up?

Allen and Elliot are both signed to a combined 5.2 mil cap hit. I don't seethe Blues needing to move either one until after next season. If one or the other is moved, it will cost a hefty price.

Any UFA you get will be a risk to see if they can climb out of the shadows to take the reigns successfully such as Reimer, Scrivens or Khubodin. They are former starters forced out by young guys like Ward or career backups like Montoya. Chad Johnson shows potential at 30 years old though he has never carried a team. Any other FA has not proved anything to show they would or should have a shot as a starter.

Given suggested options, Anderssen would be my first choice depending on trade cost. Either blues goalie would be next followed by Halak. Johnson would be a possibility but I wouldn't go over 2.5 knowing he is an upgrade on Ramo but still likely a stop gap. Not a fan of re-treads. The issue for any of these is trade cost, not cap hit.

I think they are all a risk until they prove otherwise. Statistics will only reveal so much about any player, goalies that have been asked to back up while they learn are going to have sketchy results. Goalies for me are like hitters in baseball they have to play regularly to get their rhythm . People go on about play with only limited samples. Management has to be satisfied with their own talent assessment when they make a move such as this one.

 

I would be good with Vasilevskiy and Kuemper brought in. Vasilevskiy is from a winning organization and well coached. Kuemper is hungry to become a starter and I like that competitive attitude.

[cross16]

To your point, everyone comes with a risk inclucding Ramo. I think you seem to view Ramo/Ortio as a safe option but I don't agree. Ortio has 37 games played in the NHL in total and probably at least a 3rd of them not very good. I think he is an NHL calibre goalie but can he handle 20-30 games a year at backup quality? Can Ramo get past slow starts? Ramo has started very poorly for 3 years in a row now and all the Flames have is Ortio to back up him. Ramo is coming off a torn ACL and was barely a starting calibre goalie beforehand, how does the ACL affect him?

 

All the goalies I listed are upgrades. I agree cost with vary but IMO none of those guys mentioned are going to cost much. I think you are looking at a 2nd round pick, plus another later round pick/prospect for them. I give that up everyday of the week over rolling with Ramo/Ortio again. 

[Dmac1103]

The more I think about this, the more I think there are going to be a lot of goalies available this offseason. The expansion draft sure sounds like its a given but even outside of that its shaping up to be a busy summer for goalies.

 

 

F.Anderson

Mike smith

Varlamov/Pickard

Keumper

Halak

Fleury

Vasilevsky

I can see all of those guys being available in trade, plus available UFA, plus going after a lesser name/AHL standout, plus a team like St Louis that will need to figure out an answer too.

 

I'm not worried at all about finding a goalie. Flames have the assets and cap space to make it work and I think they are going to have a large selection to pick from.

F.Anderson- With Gibson stalling in the playoffs they may try and figure a way to keep him.

Mike smith- With his age he has become injury prone, so something I wouldn't want to deal with.

Varlamov/Pickard- Pickard is interesting, he is the type we should be looking at young and has shown well in limited action. Varly I am not sure about he is a very hot and cold goalie definitely would need a good back up for the cold nights.

Keumper- Another one like Pickard but I don't think the Wild will trade him in the division unless we over pay.

Halak- Age and injury concern.

Fleury- Large cap hit, chance Pittsburgh keeps him depending on the expansion draft how that truly plays out.

Vasilevsky- I wish but not sure if Tampa would trade him, this will depend on how the Stamkos situation plays.

I would add Philipp Grubauer to the list of possibilities, he is young has played well in both the NHL and AHL and we could get him cheaper than most. I really think Calgary should be in the Market for this years Jones or Talbot not a big name on a long term expensive contract that could hurt us in the future. But that is just my opinion.

[MAC331]

F.Anderson- With Gibson stalling in the playoffs they may try and figure a way to keep him.

Mike smith- With his age he has become injury prone, so something I wouldn't want to deal with.

Varlamov/Pickard- Pickard is interesting, he is the type we should be looking at young and has shown well in limited action. Varly I am not sure about he is a very hot and cold goalie definitely would need a good back up for the cold nights.

Keumper- Another one like Pickard but I don't think the Wild will trade him in the division unless we over pay.

Halak- Age and injury concern.

Fleury- Large cap hit, chance Pittsburgh keeps him depending on the expansion draft how that truly plays out.

Vasilevsky- I wish but not sure if Tampa would trade him, this will depend on how the Stamkos situation plays.

I would add Philipp Grubauer to the list of possibilities, he is young has played well in both the NHL and AHL and we could get him cheaper than most. I really think Calgary should be in the Market for this years Jones or Talbot not a big name on a long term expensive contract that could hurt us in the future. But that is just my opinion.

I agree, it would be good to bring in a couple of goalies that can not only challenge each other but grow with the team at an affordable contract situation.

[cross16]

I would add Philipp Grubauer to the list of possibilities, he is young has played well in both the NHL and AHL and we could get him cheaper than most. I really think Calgary should be in the Market for this years Jones or Talbot not a big name on a long term expensive contract that could hurt us in the future. But that is just my opinion.

 

Agreed. I tried to focus on most just names guys but your right Grubauer should get a look. I would also include names like Jared Coreau for Detroit, Jonus Korpisalo in Columbus, Subban in Boston etc.

 

There are a lot of options out there and I think the prices are going to be lower than people think. 

[tincup1]

I agree, it would be good to bring in a couple of goalies that can not only challenge each other but grow with the team at an affordable contract situation.

 

I kind of like that idea too.  Bring in two good young guys who can push each other.  With Gillies and Ortio also in the mix, someone should emerge. I think it's a mistake to bring in one expensive vet and anoint them the new king.

[conundrumed]

Agreed. I tried to focus on most just names guys but your right Grubauer should get a look. I would also include names like Jared Coreau for Detroit, Jonus Korpisalo in Columbus, Subban in Boston etc.

 

There are a lot of options out there and I think the prices are going to be lower than people think. 

Okay!

 

I'm guessing at one or 2 of our 2nds gets a goalie. Our 6th oa is untouchable in exchange for a goalie. I agree the price is lower than even a mid 1st rounder for sure.

[phoenix66]

Okay!

 

I'm guessing at one or 2 of our 2nds gets a goalie. Our 6th oa is untouchable in exchange for a goalie. I agree the price is lower than even a mid 1st rounder for sure.

I'll admit.how this all plays out is intriguing to me. The pressure is on BT because he cannot fail at this. If he takes a swing on a fresh starter, he needs to be one that if he falls on his face, nobody saw it coming. So he needs to be burning it up in his current role.

Or

He hits a home run and snags a MAF or Bishop type..same thing, a can't miss guy

Or

He goes and gets one of these lesser knowns with high potential and protects him behind someone.someone like Ramo, or Reimer

Who gets determines which,if either, of our current goalies gets retained.i can't help feeling put tandem next year is Ramo +??? .with Ramo expendable by the end of the year.sucks to be Ortio but I think he's another year in the A

I personally don't think he goes for the home run.

[conundrumed]

Why would we want Lehtonen??? He's no better than Ramo in fact I'd consider him to be worse.Ramo swings from good to very good. Lehtonen doesn't swing..He's either good or Hilleresque.

If we consider this we should just resign Ramo and get it over with

Keep listening to the talking heads...

The only reason Dallas was involved in a game 7 was because Lehtonen stole 2 games.

Lehtonen isn't better, A LOT BETTER, than Ramo?

Yeah sure, whatever.

The way Dallas played, they deserved to be swept.

But he had a bad game 7, that makes him horrible. Listen to analysts much?

There shouldn't have even been a game 7 the way Dallas played.

So I guess you could say Lehtonen brought this on himself for stealing 2 games single-handedly.

At what point is the roster letting their goalie down?

[travel_dude]

Keep listening to the talking heads...

The only reason Dallas was involved in a game 7 was because Lehtonen stole 2 games.

Lehtonen isn't better, A LOT BETTER, than Ramo?

Yeah sure, whatever.

The way Dallas played, they deserved to be swept.

But he had a bad game 7, that makes him horrible. Listen to analysts much?

There shouldn't have even been a game 7 the way Dallas played.

So I guess you could say Lehtonen brought this on himself for stealing 2 games single-handedly.

At what point is the roster letting their goalie down?

 

I think you have to look at the body of work over the regular season, not just the playoffs.  Lettin-it-in had a worse SV% over the last two seasons.  At age 32, he could be on a permanent slide, while Ramo could actually improve a bit.  Ramo adjusted his style after he cam back from Stockton.  He improved a whole lot.  

 

No, I am not suggesting Ramo.  Too risky for CGY as the starter or even a 1-b.  I would prefer we get someone with recent .915+ stats at a minimum.    

[conundrumed]

I think you have to look at the body of work over the regular season, not just the playoffs.  Lettin-it-in had a worse SV% over the last two seasons.  At age 32, he could be on a permanent slide, while Ramo could actually improve a bit.  Ramo adjusted his style after he cam back from Stockton.  He improved a whole lot.  

 

No, I am not suggesting Ramo.  Too risky for CGY as the starter or even a 1-b.  I would prefer we get someone with recent .915+ stats at a minimum.    

Not suggesting Lehtonen, but if a buyout makes him a $1.5 1B, why not?

Still leaves cash to further the position.

He may be up and down, but he stole games in the 2nd rd of the playoffs when Dallas was under siege. Everyone's focusing on what he didn't do, but you have to look at what he did do.

[travel_dude]

Not suggesting Lehtonen, but if a buyout makes him a $1.5 1B, why not?

Still leaves cash to further the position.

He may be up and down, but he stole games in the 2nd rd of the playoffs when Dallas was under siege. Everyone's focusing on what he didn't do, but you have to look at what he did do.

 

That's all I am doing.  Numbers no better than Ramo don't suggest a better goalie, regardless of his playoff performance.  He may be, but barring a buy-out/cheap signing as a backup, I don't see him being the answer.

[conundrumed]

That's all I am doing.  Numbers no better than Ramo don't suggest a better goalie, regardless of his playoff performance.  He may be, but barring a buy-out/cheap signing as a backup, I don't see him being the answer.

I wonder if we'll get an answer this year, or just back into holding pattern as Hiller/Ramo was.

I guess if expansion is a go, might give us more clarity. Supposed to be announced by June.

[nevermissashift]

Thank you for the replies.

It was not my intention to pump up Ramo's stats, nor to omit information on him. As I said, he is a starting goalie at the NHL level as based on his stats. I also said he is not the goalie to take the Flames to the cup. The point of my post was to show that 1 more season with the Ramo / Ortio combo would not be the worst thing in the world if they are signed to low contracts which would allow more money to be spent on higher end forwards. In a year, there is a chance that Gillies could be ready.

I think the Flames would do better with an improved goalie situation, but Ramo and Ortio returning would not be the worst option. That was the basis of my post.

 

I guess things could be worse but can you imagine another year with the same goaltending situation? Fans get tired after awhile. There are other ways to spend your time, no matter how much you love the game.

[travel_dude]

I wonder if we'll get an answer this year, or just back into holding pattern as Hiller/Ramo was.

I guess if expansion is a go, might give us more clarity. Supposed to be announced by June.

 

I don't think there is any chance that we don't get a 2-3 year "answer" this year.  If the expansion is announced, I think they protect the new goalie.  It's going to cost us something.  I think there is still some doubt about Gillies being subject to being claimed.  Two years experience?  I don't know that 7 games qualifies as a year.  It's hard to justify that interpretation if you have to expose 25% of your roster money and protect NMC.  I think the GM's will seek to alter those rules a bit.

[phoenix66]

watching these Worlds, almost have to wonder if BT comes home with a European goalie or 2 for the system .

Even those Hungary Goalies looked impressive ..

[DirtyDeeds]

watching these Worlds, almost have to wonder if BT comes home with a European goalie or 2 for the system .

Even those Hungary Goalies looked impressive ..

Didn't Feaster already try out/sign the two best Goalies not playing in N. America?

[phoenix66]

Didn't Feaster already try out/sign the two best Goalies not playing in N. America?

 

 

 its one thing to bring them into your system,,quite another to bring them in to battle for your #1 job.. id be quite happy getting them to the farm and see if they surprise us.

can only do Gillies good to have some serious competition at that level 

[Carty]