Goaltending

[travel_dude]

18 minutes ago, redfire11 said:

Vladar out for season with hip surgery.

 

We we will see how many starts Markstrom gets.

Likely most.

But I don't have a problem with Wolf understudying Markstrom.

Should have been that way half way through the season.

 

There is little point now in starting Markstrom.

We aren't going 12-1-1 to finish the season.

Evaluate.

[phoenix66]

On 3/21/2024 at 10:43 AM, travel_dude said:

 

We we will see how many starts Markstrom gets.

Likely most.

But I don't have a problem with Wolf understudying Markstrom.

Should have been that way half way through the season.

 

There is little point now in starting Markstrom.

We aren't going 12-1-1 to finish the season.

Evaluate.

Agreed ..  I don't think many of the pro wolf fanatics realize , that if he is to be brought along properly. He's about 3 seasons away..

You look at the top goalies in the league.. the vasilevskys, the hellybucks, the Gibson's ..the Saros's..  they got to where they are by following the proper path .

year of pure backup . Maybe 20 games?   Then more of a split where they start showing they are the next man up.. 3rd season they displace the master .. 

 

 The flip side of the coin you have the Harts , the Knights.. the ones who burst on the scene and get too much too soon.. they get ruined 

[jjgallow]

30 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

 

 The flip side of the coin you have the Harts , the Knights.. the ones who burst on the scene and get too much too soon.. they get ruined 

 

Bursting on the scene did in fact ruin Hart, I agree.   But not the kind of scene you're talking about.

 

 

[phoenix66]

9 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Bursting on the scene did in fact ruin Hart, I agree.   But not the kind of scene you're talking about.

 

 

I figured somebody would bring that up..  just purely professionally he hit the skids long before that stuff hit the fan. He was garbage a soon as they handed him the ball his second season .. wasn't ready . 

The list is way longer ... Martin Jones..and I'll go to my grave saying Kidd was Mishandled ..but with him it was more than just being given too much too early..

 

In a perfect world , Markstrom with 2 years left is the ideal runway for Wolf.. in reality they likely will trade Marky.. I just pray they bring in a solid #1 to pace him in..  looking at the UFA market the only one that fits the bill is Talbot 

[jjgallow]

12 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I figured somebody would bring that up..  just purely professionally he hit the skids long before that stuff hit the fan. He was garbage a soon as they handed him the ball his second season .. wasn't ready . 

The list is way longer ... Martin Jones..and I'll go to my grave saying Kidd was Mishandled ..but with him it was more than just being given too much too early..

 

In a perfect world , Markstrom with 2 years left is the ideal runway for Wolf.. in reality they likely will trade Marky.. I just pray they bring in a solid #1 to pace him in..  looking at the UFA market the only one that fits the bill is Talbot 

 

You might be onto something.   But I would refer to it more as injuries, usually.

 

Which, can happen when you give a 20 year old goalie 50 games.

[phoenix66]

32 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

You might be onto something.   But I would refer to it more as injuries, usually.

 

Which, can happen when you give a 20 year old goalie 50 games.

Absolutely..  that's part of the runway required .   60 games in the A where you're relatively not breaking a sweat is about the same grind as 20 in the NHL.. play him with a guy who knows what it takes ..has done the grind ..Marky was on waivers a few times in his career before he locked in 

Talbot never fails to give his time with the King in NY as invaluable to his career now ..didn't play a ton but saw first hand what a player like that does ..prep, mental attitude.. it's more than just competition 

[robrob74]

Kipper credits the Flames, might have been Noodles, for telling him that he needed to change things up to maintain his ice time and helped him change up some training. 

[cross16]

Dustin Wolf since the Flames have actually made it a point to play him

 

.966 Save %

.947 Save %

.875 Save % (WSH, where team ws awful and he still gave them a chance to stay in it)

.926 Save %

 

He just looks so much better in the net. I was really happy with his game on Sunday. Tracked pucks well, more controlled in his movement and not flailing as much as he was earlier in the year. He always seems to take a game or two to get comfortable and I think he's there now. sure he'd want the Krebs goal back but that happens. 

 

Said it before and say it again there is no reason Markstrom should be a Flame next season. Not suggesting give him the net, but the Flames need to give him more than 20-30 games. 

[travel_dude]

50 minutes ago, cross16 said:

Dustin Wolf since the Flames have actually made it a point to play him

 

.966 Save %

.947 Save %

.875 Save % (WSH, where team ws awful and he still gave them a chance to stay in it)

.926 Save %

 

He just looks so much better in the net. I was really happy with his game on Sunday. Tracked pucks well, more controlled in his movement and not flailing as much as he was earlier in the year. He always seems to take a game or two to get comfortable and I think he's there now. sure he'd want the Krebs goal back but that happens. 

 

Said it before and say it again there is no reason Markstrom should be a Flame next season. Not suggesting give him the net, but the Flames need to give him more than 20-30 games. 

 

100%

 

We don't really need a $6M mentor here, just a solid guy to provide quality starts.  Wolf has proven that he is more than a guy you play in a scheduled loss or against weak teams.  He's showing more understanding of how to play the puck and isn't losing the net when facing shooters.  

 

What I have seen too much this year is a reliance on the goalie to save our bacon.  With Wolf in nets, the team in front understands that they may have to work a bit harder, because that's what you are supposed to do.  Get rid of the layers of screens and let him see the shot.  

 

We may not be 100% satisfied with the return on a Markstrom trade, but we shouldn't just hang up the phone.  NJ may have competition to land him, if they still want to.  Allen is a good 1b goalie, but I don't think he can repeat his STL numbers.  Besides, NJ may not be the only suitor. 

[jjgallow]

On 3/27/2024 at 2:05 AM, travel_dude said:

 

100%

 

We don't really need a $6M mentor here, just a solid guy to provide quality starts.  Wolf has proven that he is more than a guy you play in a scheduled loss or against weak teams.  He's showing more understanding of how to play the puck and isn't losing the net when facing shooters.  

 

What I have seen too much this year is a reliance on the goalie to save our bacon.  With Wolf in nets, the team in front understands that they may have to work a bit harder, because that's what you are supposed to do.  Get rid of the layers of screens and let him see the shot.  

 

We may not be 100% satisfied with the return on a Markstrom trade, but we shouldn't just hang up the phone.  NJ may have competition to land him, if they still want to.  Allen is a good 1b goalie, but I don't think he can repeat his STL numbers.  Besides, NJ may not be the only suitor. 

 

Wolf is giving me great, great hope.

 

I have said for a while that goaltending prospects are our greatest need, and that we can't just rely on Wolf.

 

That's kind of changing fast.  I mean, I still want to see us draft a goalie pretty much every year.    But, man.  He really could be our guy.

 

Unfortunately, the Markstrom situation.... we Really should have traded him.  That is going to be a big, big issue

[travel_dude]

4 hours ago, jjgallow said:

 

Wolf is giving me great, great hope.

 

I have said for a while that goaltending prospects are our greatest need, and that we can't just rely on Wolf.

 

That's kind of changing fast.  I mean, I still want to see us draft a goalie pretty much every year.    But, man.  He really could be our guy.

 

Unfortunately, the Markstrom situation.... we Really should have traded him.  That is going to be a big, big issue

 

I think it's safe to say that Markstrom will likely be traded this summer at the earliest.

He won't ask for a trade but he will not block it.

TDL is different, since it involves uprooting a family or distrubing normality.

 

There are a couple ways of getting top goalie prospects.

One is to bite the bullet and hope a 1st turns into one.

Another is to go high risk on a later pick, like Wolf and a couple other guys we have.

Another is to trade for them while their value is lower.

 

You want a Wallstedt or Askarov?

Make an offer.

Neither is killing it in the AHL, not like Wolf was doing every year.

Trade a first for either?

Might not do it, but perhaps there is something you can do.

[robrob74]

Can teams make trades now? I guess they can make trades during the Playoffs considering they'd not be playing anyway. Technically, the Flames and Devils can make a deal during the playoffs, I think... 

 

a deal now, I assume would shut the players down the rest of the year? Like if Markstrom was traded, if he played he could help the devils into the playoffs, but not play in them, if the deals are allowed post TDL. So I see why he'd not be allowed to play regular season. But technically, can be dealt anytime from now on.

 

?

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I think it's safe to say that Markstrom will likely be traded this summer at the earliest.

He won't ask for a trade but he will not block it.

TDL is different, since it involves uprooting a family or distrubing normality.

 

There are a couple ways of getting top goalie prospects.

One is to bite the bullet and hope a 1st turns into one.

Another is to go high risk on a later pick, like Wolf and a couple other guys we have.

Another is to trade for them while their value is lower.

 

You want a Wallstedt or Askarov?

Make an offer.

Neither is killing it in the AHL, not like Wolf was doing every year.

Trade a first for either?

Might not do it, but perhaps there is something you can do.

 

So for me, the whole "trade for Askarov/Wallstedt" thing was based on:

Derisking (what if Wolf flops)

Them being the next thing (possible but not clear right now)

 

The chances of Wolf being the real thing are going up.  The chances of Askarov/Wallstead being the real thing...I won't say they're going down, but they didn't go up this season.

 

I would absolutely trade for them, but not with a 1st.   I'd trade for them with a 2nd.

 

After Kipper, we drafted maybe one goalie every 2 years.   We should have drafted twice that, with significantly more scouting.   And we should at all times, with or without Wolf or Askaraov or anyone.    If Wolf continues to impress, it negates the need for us to do something "drastic".  We can simply go into maintenance mode there.  imho.    Which means 2-3x more drafting,scouting, development than we've done in the past.

[travel_dude]

3 hours ago, jjgallow said:

So for me, the whole "trade for Askarov/Wallstedt" thing was based on:

Derisking (what if Wolf flops)

Them being the next thing (possible but not clear right now)

 

The chances of Wolf being the real thing are going up.  The chances of Askarov/Wallstead being the real thing...I won't say they're going down, but they didn't go up this season.

 

I would absolutely trade for them, but not with a 1st.   I'd trade for them with a 2nd.

 

 

What I never get is why it's okay to use a 1st to draft a top goalie, but not worth a first when a player is now a pro and signed.  The risk with Ask was that he wouldn't sign.  Both of these guys are not that far off their draft years.  I'm not saying we make the trade, but these guys are playing in the AHL and while not yet studs, they are not busts.  Would you not want to have another potential starter?

[conundrumed]

Sergeev had a much better 2nd half of his season with UConn. Not sure about the Russian we took last year.

[cross16]

10 hours ago, robrob74 said:

Can teams make trades now? I guess they can make trades during the Playoffs considering they'd not be playing anyway. Technically, the Flames and Devils can make a deal during the playoffs, I think... 

 

a deal now, I assume would shut the players down the rest of the year? Like if Markstrom was traded, if he played he could help the devils into the playoffs, but not play in them, if the deals are allowed post TDL. So I see why he'd not be allowed to play regular season. But technically, can be dealt anytime from now on.

 

?

 

Technically yes but they would be ineligible for playoffs. You'd also enter into potential complications with trading players during this current league year as opposed to the next one. 

 

Long story short, technically possible but not logistically possible or likely. Nothing really to gain from either side. 

[robrob74]

25 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Technically yes but they would be ineligible for playoffs. You'd also enter into potential complications with trading players during this current league year as opposed to the next one. 

 

Long story short, technically possible but not logistically possible or likely. Nothing really to gain from either side. 

only thing is, I think if a team like Jersey wants him that bad they'd go for it and be fine with the ramifications of not being able to play the rest of the season or in the playoffs which they're not officially out of but close to being out of it.  
 

so I'm just asking because some say they could be traded at the draft at earliest, but really could be anytime once both teams' seasons end. 

[sak22]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

only thing is, I think if a team like Jersey wants him that bad they'd go for it and be fine with the ramifications of not being able to play the rest of the season or in the playoffs which they're not officially out of but close to being out of it.  
 

so I'm just asking because some say they could be traded at the draft at earliest, but really could be anytime once both teams' seasons end. 

Bolded are important.  I do think they want him, but not at the desperation stage people think.  They moved on, whether it is temporary or not remains to be seen.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

only thing is, I think if a team like Jersey wants him that bad they'd go for it and be fine with the ramifications of not being able to play the rest of the season or in the playoffs which they're not officially out of but close to being out of it.  
 

so I'm just asking because some say they could be traded at the draft at earliest, but really could be anytime once both teams' seasons end. 

 

Nah no team is going to add a #1 G while trying to tank for a better pick.  

[robrob74]

19 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Nah no team is going to add a #1 G while trying to tank for a better pick.  

I read somewhere the traded players would be ineligible for the rest of this season to play on the new teams and would play next year.

[travel_dude]

50 minutes ago, sak22 said:

Bolded are important.  I do think they want him, but not at the desperation stage people think.  They moved on, whether it is temporary or not remains to be seen.

 

They basically came out after the TDL and said they would be looking for the big fish.

That sounds like it's pretty temporary.  As does the price they paid for a placeholder.

The trade for Allen seems to be one that they can trade in the summer.

He has to play 40+ games for the Devils to be upgraded to a 2nd.

Allen also has to be part of a team that makes the playoffs in 24/25.

They can recoup that conditional 3rd to mitigate the short term cost.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

I read somewhere the traded players would be ineligible for the rest of this season to play on the new teams and would play next year.

 

If I'm not mistaken, they can play immediately but not join the playoffs.

[jjgallow]

 

 

Ilya Nabokov anyone?

[travel_dude]

Wallstedt - 2 NHL games 3.52 GAA and .879 SA %

 

Not exactly "howling" to be in the NHL.

[jjgallow]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

Wallstedt - 2 NHL games 3.52 GAA and .879 SA %

 

Not exactly "howling" to be in the NHL.

 

To be fair, it's only very slightly worse than Wolf's record, their stats are not far off...in the NHL.   And he's 1.5 years younger than Wolf.

 

Don't get me wrong.  I wouldn't trade Wolf for Wallstedt.  Not now.   

 

But, we are talking very small differences.     Wolf has Really impressed me.  But it also shows just How good a goalie's got to be, like Saros for instance, to come in at 22 and get that .923 in his first NHL year.  Amazing.

Nobody in this conversation is a slouch.