Goaltending

[JTech780]

If it was me I would just give Talbot the next 3 starts. 

A: He has been the better goalie.

B: It gives Rittich time to practice with the goalie coach and work on his game and give him time to refocus.

C: Let's showcase Talbot before the trade deadline to see if we can get a better return.

[travel_dude]

5 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

If it was me I would just give Talbot the next 3 starts. 

A: He has been the better goalie.

B: It gives Rittich time to practice with the goalie coach and work on his game and give him time to refocus.

😄 Let's showcase Talbot before the trade deadline to see if we can get a better return.

 

I agree with the first two.

I don;t agree that #3 is the right thing for this team.

It's throwing the season while we are still in theory pushing for the playoffs.

Talbot has actually shown us we have an option for next year.

 

 

[Carty]

47 minutes ago, JTech780 said:

B: It gives Rittich time to practice with the goalie coach and work on his game and give him time to refocus.

 

...   If there are any hockey gods listening, they will not allow this to happen...   

 

While I agree on giving Talbot the start today and then maybe another game or two depending how he does...   I would like to see Rittich work out the problems that he is having now, and not create new ones...   But I think Rittich is capable of working it out on his own, and I do not have any faith in Sigalet's ability to do much in the way of "helping" solve the problem...   

 

Rittich's play has suffered since he tossed the stick after the last win against the Oil...   He will get it straight in his head and get back on track...   All goalies have times when they go through a tough stretch...

[JTech780]

4 minutes ago, Carty said:

 

...   If there are any hockey gods listening, they will not allow this to happen...   

 

While I agree on giving Talbot the start today and then maybe another game or two depending how he does...   I would like to see Rittich work out the problems that he is having now, and not create new ones...   But I think Rittich is capable of working it out on his own, and I do not have any faith in Sigalet's ability to do much in the way of "helping" solve the problem...   

 

Rittich's play has suffered since he tossed the stick after the last win against the Oil...   He will get it straight in his head and get back on track...   All goalies have times when they go through a tough stretch...

 

For the 3rd straight season his numbers have taken a nose dive after January. I think there are bigger issues here.

[Carty]

1 hour ago, JTech780 said:

For the 3rd straight season his numbers have taken a nose dive after January. I think there are bigger issues here.

We have to remember that Rittich had a bad knee for the 2nd half of last season...   from: https://calgarysun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/calgary-flames/flames-goalie-rittich-has-been-nursing-knee-injury

 

Part of the problem now is he has been given starts when they should have gone with Talbot, like last game against the Hawks...   Why they didn't start Talbot after he just had a 44 save shutout is beyond me...   and either way,, that is on Wardo, even if he let Sigalet make that call...   Doesn't really matter if it for the last while this season it has been the knee, or just Rittich having some brain cramps, they should have gone with Talbot more often than they did while he was the hot goalie...   I thought that was the reason why why they brought him in and paid him $2.75 mil a season...

 

[travel_dude]

53 minutes ago, Carty said:

We have to remember that Rittich had a bad knee for the 2nd half of last season...   from: https://calgarysun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/calgary-flames/flames-goalie-rittich-has-been-nursing-knee-injury

 

Part of the problem now is he has been given starts when they should have gone with Talbot, like last game against the Hawks...   Why they didn't start Talbot after he just had a 44 save shutout is beyond me...   and either way,, that is on Wardo, even if he let Sigalet make that call...   Doesn't really matter if it for the last while this season it has been the knee, or just Rittich having some brain cramps, they should have gone with Talbot more often than they did while he was the hot goalie...   I thought that was the reason why why they brought him in and paid him $2.75 mil a season...

 

 

Almost double the starts for Rittich.

WHich would be fine if the results were there recently to justify it.

Talbot benefitted by taking time to work on his game.

Rittich had some issues and gets thrust back in to fix them.

 

Regardless of who they go with in the playoffs, they need to stabilize the nets right now.

The talk was to go with the hot goalie, but that evaporated after a good start.

 

[jjgallow]

Here's the thing....perspective from an optimist:

 

We're arguing about which backup goalie to start in a season that no longer matters because we failed to take the most important position in the game seriously Again.

 

Who cares?  (My vote is Talbot but whatevs)

 

Any Stanley cup in our future is not a  2020 cup.  The only interesting thing to me at this point is the development system. 

 

And that's  a wasteland.

 

Parsons, Gillies, everyone in ECHL, all their imports,  everyone in AHL, are completely write-offs at this point.   Sure anything is possible.   But not.

 

Even Dustin Wolfe has somehow stagnated. 

 

Anyway.   We're bad at this.  We Just are.

 

That's something most on here agree on even if we don't agree on the cause.

 

I'm inherently for drafting and development but I ...I give up.   We are just Really, really aweful at this with goalies. 

 

We need to bring in that big name.   And a big name 22 years or younger.   Or, draft an NHL ready goalie (there is only one next year).

 

We need to pay the price and do it.  Bring in someone who Only needs NHL level development and experience, and is top 5 in their generation.   And young enough to build around as we fix our other issues.

 

So,

 

Short list.

 

JMHO.

 

 

[robrob74]

I’ve always said it that if they don’t ever play like a team and play team defence they will never win a cup. Maybe not in those words but I’ve seen this trend of breakdowns in play over the last many years?!we played better as a team off and on with GG and BP but still very prone to being hemmed in.
 

Goalies can’t have the success unless the team has it.

 

ok let’s look at Roy as a goalie. 
meh has great teams in Montreal. They start to suck and he looks human and lets in a bunch of goals. Then he demands to be traded. He goes to the Avs and looks like a goalie god again. But with a bad Habs team he looks average. 
 

our goalies AND any that are brought in are going to look bad if they have this team in front of them. 
 

in fact this team is in a playoff spot only because of the goaltending and had the goalies not won games where the players were shot, we would be in the bottom of the league, lottery.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, jjgallow said:

Here's the thing....perspective from an optimist:

 

We're arguing about which backup goalie to start in a season that no longer matters because we failed to take the most important position in the game seriously Again.

 

Who cares?  (My vote is Talbot but whatevs)

 

Any Stanley cup in our future is not a  2020 cup.  The only interesting thing to me at this point is the development system. 

 

And that's  a wasteland.

 

Parsons, Gillies, everyone in ECHL, all their imports,  everyone in AHL, are completely write-offs at this point.   Sure anything is possible.   But not.

 

Even Dustin Wolfe has somehow stagnated. 

 

Anyway.   We're bad at this.  We Just are.

 

That's something most on here agree on even if we don't agree on the cause.

 

I'm inherently for drafting and development but I ...I give up.   We are just Really, really aweful at this with goalies. 

 

We need to bring in that big name.   And a big name 22 years or younger.   Or, draft an NHL ready goalie (there is only one next year).

 

We need to pay the price and do it.  Bring in someone who Only needs NHL level development and experience, and is top 5 in their generation.   And young enough to build around as we fix our other issues.

 

So,

 

Short list.

 

JMHO.

 

 

 

Short answer is the best goalie in the NHL isn;t going to win the cup.

So, you can pay that price to get one and not have a team to play in front of him.

Or you get licky and play against a team that manages to beat you anyway.

 

[jjgallow]

4 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Short answer is the best goalie in the NHL isn;t going to win the cup.

So, you can pay that price to get one and not have a team to play in front of him.

Or you get licky and play against a team that manages to beat you anyway.

 

 

I would settle for...  top 5-8.   Yeah, the top 1 or 2 are aweful expensive.  Top 5-8 gives you the chance.

[WRuCOS]

Here we are at game 60, I think I last chimed in on this around the 40th game mark. Nothing has changed IMO.

 

Rittich is very good when he's on, but I still don't understand, based on his numbers and history, why the coach, now even new coach, is so set on riding him so heavily. Talby at 44 save shutout...Rittich draws in the next game - not a back to back situation.

 

Ride Talbot the next 6-7 games with a game off somewhere, unless he really fumbles. One thing very noticeable from Rittich, moreseo that Talbot, is he doesn't like the 7,8,9th dmen very much, yelling at them while looking the other way - It's in his head.

[Thebrewcrew]

Plain and simple. Those are 10 huge points. Not in the race still without Rittich. He will bounce back and find his game again

[robrob74]

51 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Plain and simple. Those are 10 huge points. Not in the race still without Rittich. He will bounce back and find his game again

 

how do they decide a stolen win? Feels like there are a few more than 5

[jjgallow]

DAVID AYRES

[The_People1]

33 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

DAVID AYRES

 

Who is the Flames zamboni driver? 

[jjgallow]

11 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

Who is the Flames zamboni driver? 

 

lol right?

[sak22]

I'd go Foster over Ayres.  I believe he's still younger and has the better numbers.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

4 hours ago, sak22 said:

I'd go Foster over Ayres.  I believe he's still younger and has the better numbers.

Hard to argue against a 1.000 sv%.

[jjgallow]

 

Starting to think of just making a clear case for Yaroslav Askarov.

 

If not, next stop is the third round for goalies.  I mean, I don't know if I'd be behind trading up for him.  But if he fell to us (which is very likely)...take the BPA despite it being a first-round goalie.

 

We do need a serious solution.   

[robrob74]

37 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

Starting to think of just making a clear case for Yaroslav Askarov.

 

If not, next stop is the third round for goalies.  I mean, I don't know if I'd be behind trading up for him.  But if he fell to us (which is very likely)...take the BPA despite it being a first-round goalie.

 

We do need a serious solution.   

 

 

Do you think that goalies have gotten worse over the years since we were younger? I mean, something that I see is that there are only a handful of good goalies, and then one or two, maybe 3 that are dominant in the league. Then a lot are just average and on any team they could have good, average or below average numbers. 

 

I agree with you that the Flames have done a poor job of drafting and developing a goalie since Kidd. Kidd could have been better but they rushed him. I don't know what they're doing, but they're failing at development. I'd say we are average at overall development as well. I think average because we can develop hockey players, but we are not developing any top line players. There are teams that draft deep into drafts and can develop guys to play there. 

 

Have we developed Monahan? Gaudreau? Tkachuk? I guess that's where the, did we develop them, or were they just always going to be that good debate starts? 

 

I like Rittich, but I get why you'd be frustrated with him. He is good enough to step up when needed, but like the rest of the team, he goes cold when it is easy to get complacent. Now that the team is playing he is complacent. I like Tallbot as well. But both have been very inconsistent but good throughout the year as well.

[travel_dude]

56 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

 

Do you think that goalies have gotten worse over the years since we were younger? I mean, something that I see is that there are only a handful of good goalies, and then one or two, maybe 3 that are dominant in the league. Then a lot are just average and on any team they could have good, average or below average numbers. 

 

I agree with you that the Flames have done a poor job of drafting and developing a goalie since Kidd. Kidd could have been better but they rushed him. I don't know what they're doing, but they're failing at development. I'd say we are average at overall development as well. I think average because we can develop hockey players, but we are not developing any top line players. There are teams that draft deep into drafts and can develop guys to play there. 

 

Have we developed Monahan? Gaudreau? Tkachuk? I guess that's where the, did we develop them, or were they just always going to be that good debate starts? 

 

I like Rittich, but I get why you'd be frustrated with him. He is good enough to step up when needed, but like the rest of the team, he goes cold when it is easy to get complacent. Now that the team is playing he is complacent. I like Tallbot as well. But both have been very inconsistent but good throughout the year as well.

 

I wil chirp in here.

Things have changed since I started watching hockey (Gump, Dryden, etc).

Went from having pads that looked like leather chaps to Brodeur and Roy, who played with much better pads.

They were still making players look huge.

Look at Ryan Miller when he played in BUFF and VAN.

He looked massive, but he is a rake.

 

Bishop and RInne and Smith excelled when their pads were huge, and only Bishop has maintained his numbers.

Then again, he is a giant.

 

As far as drafting and development, we have mostly failed on the former.

Gillies was a college standout, and maybe things would have been different if he didn't miss an entire season.

The rest before him were meh.

Ortio, Irving, etc., etc.

Once removed from the Flames, they didn;t exactly do anything great.

 

Since Gillies:

MacDonald - miss

Parsons - too early to call; development hampered by injuries and personal issues; rounding back into form.

Wolf - seems like a hit; killing the WHL, again.  Leads the league in just about everything if not everything.  He is small, though.

 

In recent years the Flames have put winning in the AHL ahead of development.  Part of the problem is carrying a goalie that should have been NHL ready by now and isn't.

 

So, I don;t know we should be reaching for a goalie unless he looks to be a can't miss. 

Hard to judge a goalie that has looked good in 31 MHL, 18 VHL and 1 KHL games.

Numbrs not so great in WJC.

By comparison, Zagidulin had superior number in the KHL.

Hard to compare.

 

 

[robrob74]

47 minutes ago, travel_dude said:

 

I wil chirp in here.

Things have changed since I started watching hockey (Gump, Dryden, etc).

Went from having pads that looked like leather chaps to Brodeur and Roy, who played with much better pads.

They were still making players look huge.

Look at Ryan Miller when he played in BUFF and VAN.

He looked massive, but he is a rake.

 

Bishop and RInne and Smith excelled when their pads were huge, and only Bishop has maintained his numbers.

Then again, he is a giant.

 

As far as drafting and development, we have mostly failed on the former.

Gillies was a college standout, and maybe things would have been different if he didn't miss an entire season.

The rest before him were meh.

Ortio, Irving, etc., etc.

Once removed from the Flames, they didn;t exactly do anything great.

 

Since Gillies:

MacDonald - miss

Parsons - too early to call; development hampered by injuries and personal issues; rounding back into form.

Wolf - seems like a hit; killing the WHL, again.  Leads the league in just about everything if not everything.  He is small, though.

 

In recent years the Flames have put winning in the AHL ahead of development.  Part of the problem is carrying a goalie that should have been NHL ready by now and isn't.

 

So, I don;t know we should be reaching for a goalie unless he looks to be a can't miss. 

Hard to judge a goalie that has looked good in 31 MHL, 18 VHL and 1 KHL games.

Numbrs not so great in WJC.

By comparison, Zagidulin had superior number in the KHL.

Hard to compare.

 

 

 

Rinne has looked good but I think age has been what caught up to him. I agree though that equipment has played a part in it. The thing I find weird with Gillies is that he starts the game looking like he belongs in the ECHL. He lets in a stinker or two and his game improves as his mechanics get better.i don’t get it.

 

the others looked ok but couldn’t put it all together for a long stretch. I hope Ritter can...
 

i kind of think it is the mechanics that have aided in the debate. Are goalies able to maintain composure enough to stick with their mechanics? Mental fortitude.

Rittich has shown signs of having it, but he gets off his game as the season wears down. It’s a sign they need to play Talbot more and something this team did last year too. They rose smith when it was clear Rittich was better. This year they’re riding BSD when it is clear Talbot has earned a few more starts. 

[travel_dude]

55 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Rinne has looked good but I think age has been what caught up to him. I agree though that equipment has played a part in it. The thing I find weird with Gillies is that he starts the game looking like he belongs in the ECHL. He lets in a stinker or two and his game improves as his mechanics get better.i don’t get it.

 

the others looked ok but couldn’t put it all together for a long stretch. I hope Ritter can...
 

i kind of think it is the mechanics that have aided in the debate. Are goalies able to maintain composure enough to stick with their mechanics? Mental fortitude.

Rittich has shown signs of having it, but he gets off his game as the season wears down. It’s a sign they need to play Talbot more and something this team did last year too. They rose smith when it was clear Rittich was better. This year they’re riding BSD when it is clear Talbot has earned a few more starts. 

 

Ignoring the 17/18 cam[aign for a minute, Rittich was injured last season.

He was not as good after.

Even so, his last 10 games he went 6-4 while Smith went 5-5.

 

Talbot's last 5 starts:

3-2 with 2 shutouts.  3 games with 4 GA and 2 with zero.

Rittich's last 5 starts:

2 wins, 1 loss, pulled once and 1 OTL.

A quick view would suggest that Talbot is playing better.

But his shutouts came against ANA and FLA, while his third win came against ANA.

 

 

 

[sak22]

1 hour ago, travel_dude said:

 

Ignoring the 17/18 cam[aign for a minute, Rittich was injured last season.

He was not as good after.

Even so, his last 10 games he went 6-4 while Smith went 5-5.

 

Talbot's last 5 starts:

3-2 with 2 shutouts.  3 games with 4 GA and 2 with zero.

Rittich's last 5 starts:

2 wins, 1 loss, pulled once and 1 OTL.

A quick view would suggest that Talbot is playing better.

But his shutouts came against ANA and FLA, while his third win came against ANA.

 

 

 

Both have shown solid on the road.  The question is can either settle in at home.  Dave hasn't won at home since December 12th and has been yanked in 3 of his last 5 home starts.  Talbot has all the home wins in 2020, but only once allowing less than 3.  Bottom line is our home ice goaltending needs to be better or we're not making the playoffs.

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

Ignoring the 17/18 cam[aign for a minute, Rittich was injured last season.

He was not as good after.

Even so, his last 10 games he went 6-4 while Smith went 5-5.

 

Talbot's last 5 starts:

3-2 with 2 shutouts.  3 games with 4 GA and 2 with zero.

Rittich's last 5 starts:

2 wins, 1 loss, pulled once and 1 OTL.

A quick view would suggest that Talbot is playing better.

But his shutouts came against ANA and FLA, while his third win came against ANA.

 

 

 

 

I know the numbers look bad. I think there were a few where they looked bad but a few where they looked good but the GA weren’t their fault. 
 

I hopebthe team can clean up the play. Yesterday wasn’t dominant but they gave Talbot a chance to see some shots and he got a ahutout for it. All he had to do was be square to the play.