Goaltending

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, cross16 said:

There were 16 goalie in the league last year that played 55 games or more. Of that 9 of them, including Smith, had a save % of over .915 and 6 of them had a save % over .920. Now yes Fleury and Price were hurt/struggled but doesn't mean they auto jump into that category, nor does someone else fall out. Of those 6 5 of them were playing for the team that originally drafted them with Bobrovsky being the only exception. 

 

Finding a goalie you are comfortable with for 100ish game is not easy. What is a more reasonable ask is getting a goalie who can get hot at the right time. 

 

 

 

Yes! Exactly. 

How many teams ride the hot goalie deep into the playoffs? 

 

Smith can do that. 

[cross16]

4 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

Yes! Exactly. 

How many teams ride the hot goalie deep into the playoffs? 

 

Smith can do that. 

 

Holtby, Osgood, Cam Ward, and Anti NIemi. Just to name a few cup winners. 

[robrob74]

25 minutes ago, cross16 said:

 

Holtby, Osgood, Cam Ward, and Anti NIemi. Just to name a few cup winners. 

 

Some would also say Crawford in his first cup. Nobody was sold on him until his 2nd one. 

 

MAF is a great example of a goalie who struggled even though he’d already won a cup. There were so many playoff years where he couldn’t stop a beach ball. So we could get a cup caliber goalie, yet if they’re not on, then it’s not going to matter.

[conundrumed]

1 hour ago, cross16 said:

 

Holtby, Osgood, Cam Ward, and Anti NIemi. Just to name a few cup winners. 

A red hot goalie can do it, but you're right.

The other 21 play out of their minds.

It's out of a goaltenders hands.

[The_People1]

1 hour ago, robrob74 said:

 

Yes! Exactly. 

How many teams ride the hot goalie deep into the playoffs? 

 

Smith can do that. 

 

If we can even get into the playoffs this is.  While the playoffs are a few dozen games and a goalie can certainly get hot for a streak, the regular season is long and separates the men from the boys.

[travel_dude]

6 hours ago, cross16 said:

There were 16 goalie in the league last year that played 55 games or more. Of that 9 of them, including Smith, had a save % of over .915 and 6 of them had a save % over .920. Now yes Fleury and Price were hurt/struggled but doesn't mean they auto jump into that category, nor does someone else fall out. Of those 6 5 of them were playing for the team that originally drafted them with Bobrovsky being the only exception. 

 

Finding a goalie you are comfortable with for 100ish game is not easy. What is a more reasonable ask is getting a goalie who can get hot at the right time. 

 

 

 

What we saw last year was the worst possible result.

Had we made the playoffs, Smith was not hot.

Neither were the other two.

 

For me, the reasonable ask is that a goalie can play 50 or so games and go into the playoffs healthy.

Yes, he needs to be pre-injury Smith the good, not Smith post injury.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

https://www.tsn.ca/ufa-g-glass-says-he-ll-join-flames-on-pto-1.1167351

 

I'm guessing nothing much will come of it but I hope it doesnt prevent one of the young guys from getting a call to camp.

[kehatch]

24 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

https://www.tsn.ca/ufa-g-glass-says-he-ll-join-flames-on-pto-1.1167351

 

I'm guessing nothing much will come of it but I hope it doesnt prevent one of the young guys from getting a call to camp.

 

Probably just a logistics move to help with splitting the squad for China.

[conundrumed]

27 minutes ago, flames-fan-in-jets-land said:

https://www.tsn.ca/ufa-g-glass-says-he-ll-join-flames-on-pto-1.1167351

 

I'm guessing nothing much will come of it but I hope it doesnt prevent one of the young guys from getting a call to camp.

Not at all.

3 goalies have to go to China and need 4 goalies for the split squads at home.

So:

Smith

Rittich

Gillies

Parsons

MacDonald

Schneider

Glass

Covers all of the required bases.

The first 6 are under contract so reporting to camp is mandatory.

[flames-fan-in-jets-land]

1 hour ago, kehatch said:

 

Probably just a logistics move to help with splitting the squad for China.

 

1 hour ago, conundrumed said:

Not at all.

3 goalies have to go to China and need 4 goalies for the split squads at home.

So:

Smith

Rittich

Gillies

Parsons

MacDonald

Schneider

Glass

Covers all of the required bases.

The first 6 are under contract so reporting to camp is mandatory.

Makes sense. Thanks for the info.

[The_People1]

On 8/13/2018 at 8:17 PM, travel_dude said:

 

What we saw last year was the worst possible result.

Had we made the playoffs, Smith was not hot.

Neither were the other two.

 

For me, the reasonable ask is that a goalie can play 50 or so games and go into the playoffs healthy.

Yes, he needs to be pre-injury Smith the good, not Smith post injury.

 

Ya but the week before Smith got injured, he was already showing fatigue and had a run of bad games.  The injury was a blessing in disguise for him because it masked how bad he was afterwards.  It gave him an excuse and fans forgot that bad week of goaltending.

[MAC331]

9 minutes ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya but the week before Smith got injured, he was already showing fatigue and had a run of bad games.  The injury was a blessing in disguise for him because it masked how bad he was afterwards.  It gave him an excuse and fans forgot that bad week of goaltending.

Oh well we will find out.

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya but the week before Smith got injured, he was already showing fatigue and had a run of bad games.  The injury was a blessing in disguise for him because it masked how bad he was afterwards.  It gave him an excuse and fans forgot that bad week of goaltending.

 

I feel like fans remember bad goaltending but forget bad team play. 

 

We had great fancy stats but couldn’t score. When we had horrible fancy stats we scored more. 

 

But in both cases our D let the other teams have some really high danger scoring chances in critical times of the game. 

 

We cant keep expecting our goalies to get above average results from below average  defending. 

 

It is one thing to have a great D core on paper, but if they can’t defend, then that is a problem.

 

not saying our goalies are not at fault either. Smith was the reason we were in a relatively decent spot to make the playoffs before his injury as well. It’s just hard for a lot of us to blame him when if not for him we would have been nearly last overall.

 

i get why there’s concern.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, The_People1 said:

 

Ya but the week before Smith got injured, he was already showing fatigue and had a run of bad games.  The injury was a blessing in disguise for him because it masked how bad he was afterwards.  It gave him an excuse and fans forgot that bad week of goaltending.

 

Had he been playing at a 50 game per season rate, he may not have been injured.  That was the problem in October (when Lack got no net) and later, even after Rittich had shown he could handle it.  His worse game up to the end of December was an OT loss where he gave up a total of 3 goals.

[The_People1]

3 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Oh well we will find out.

 

At the end of the day, ya.  

[MAC331]

16 hours ago, The_People1 said:

 

At the end of the day, ya.  

Honestly I don't disagree that our Goaltending has CAUTION written all over it however I just think we need to find out if Smith will hold up with a lessened work load and if Rittich is any kind of answer with an increased workload. We won't be the first team ever to go hunting for a Goalie once into the season should the need arise.

[robrob74]

3 hours ago, MAC331 said:

Honestly I don't disagree that our Goaltending has CAUTION written all over it however I just think we need to find out if Smith will hold up with a lessened work load and if Rittich is any kind of answer with an increased workload. We won't be the first team ever to go hunting for a Goalie once into the season should the need arise.

 

I agree. In the AHL they went with a 1a/1b load so he can handle a few extra games. 

 

Last year i thought that was an error / big mistake by the team, when Rittich looked like he could take more games and played solid, they spread it out too thin and killed his rhythm. 

 

I think a goalie can let in let in more than 3 or 4 or 5 goals and still look impressive. 

Some of those losses, Rittich looked that way, while others, most notably the later part of the year. 

 

I know Kipper could take more workload, but I feel like some more rest would allow backup to get comfy, while keeping Kipper fresh. We failed then and I think we’re doing that now.

[MAC331]

13 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I agree. In the AHL they went with a 1a/1b load so he can handle a few extra games. 

 

Last year i thought that was an error / big mistake by the team, when Rittich looked like he could take more games and played solid, they spread it out too thin and killed his rhythm. 

 

I think a goalie can let in let in more than 3 or 4 or 5 goals and still look impressive. 

Some of those losses, Rittich looked that way, while others, most notably the later part of the year. 

 

I know Kipper could take more workload, but I feel like some more rest would allow backup to get comfy, while keeping Kipper fresh. We failed then and I think we’re doing that now.

I think we are all hoping for a more balanced approach by BP.

[Flyerfan52]

35 minutes ago, robrob74 said:

 

I agree. In the AHL they went with a 1a/1b load so he can handle a few extra games. 

 

Last year i thought that was an error / big mistake by the team, when Rittich looked like he could take more games and played solid, they spread it out too thin and killed his rhythm. 

 

I think a goalie can let in let in more than 3 or 4 or 5 goals and still look impressive. 

Some of those losses, Rittich looked that way, while others, most notably the later part of the year. 

 

I know Kipper could take more workload, but I feel like some more rest would allow backup to get comfy, while keeping Kipper fresh. We failed then and I think we’re doing that now.

The Flames scored @ a 2.66 rate so no. If the goalie allows more desperation to score arises.That leads to mistakes/turnovers that turn into even more GA. When your GF/GA is -30 that is not a good thing.

 

Kipper loved the workload but I always felt if we'd played the backup a bit more the team wouldn't have been gripping their sticks as tight in fear of making a defensive mistake & played more like they did when they trusted Kipper to bail them out.

[travel_dude]

1 hour ago, Flyerfan52 said:

The Flames scored @ a 2.66 rate so no. If the goalie allows more desperation to score arises.That leads to mistakes/turnovers that turn into even more GA. When your GF/GA is -30 that is not a good thing.

 

Kipper loved the workload but I always felt if we'd played the backup a bit more the team wouldn't have been gripping their sticks as tight in fear of making a defensive mistake & played more like they did when they trusted Kipper to bail them out.

 

We had quite a few games >3 goals for.  The problem was all those 2 or less goals for games in between.  Being shut out.  Losing in OT.  At the end of the day, the goalie has to stop the important shots to hold a lead or keep it close enough for the team to score the tying/go ahead goals.  We were so rarely there last year, unless we scored 4 goals.  A two or one goal lead evaporated.  A one goal defecit became two or three.

 

I can't explain the defeated attitude when down by a goal.  I did notice that we shut down offence when up by one or two.  Or played for the tie.  It used to be the bread and butter.  Only a few games saw that killer instinct.  Score as many goals as you can.  

 

Getting back to goaltending, we can't rely on an aging goalie, expecting him to play 60 games before playoffs even start.  And we can't expect a rookie backup to take on 20+ games unless they show they can handle it.  Camp and pre-season isn't going to flesh that out.  They need to have some options if either of those guys looks like crap.

[Horsman1]

2 hours ago, Flyerfan52 said:

The Flames scored @ a 2.66 rate so no. If the goalie allows more desperation to score arises.That leads to mistakes/turnovers that turn into even more GA. When your GF/GA is -30 that is not a good thing.

 

Kipper loved the workload but I always felt if we'd played the backup a bit more the team wouldn't have been gripping their sticks as tight in fear of making a defensive mistake & played more like they did when they trusted Kipper to bail them out.

Kipper was universally loved but he changed the way goalies in Calgary are perceived.. Prior to Kipper, one of the most well thought of goalies to play here was Reggie Lemelin.. Kipper insisted the our defense back away from the shots so he had a clear view at all shots.. This started out well except that in order for him to be successful, Our team defense strategy changed immeasurably.. It continued with the Hiring of Smith..  and his insistence on carrying and moving the puck in his zone.. The defense's job is not to go back and dig the puck, but to be prepared to accept first pass out of defensive zone to move the play forward.. Our new kids coming in to back up Smith have to understand that when they have their turn in net, The team is adjusted to Smith,,, Not a conventional goaltender and therefore.. The best option the Flames have at this time.. is to find a goalie that has the personality to inject confidence in the team.. Not necceesarily a goalie with the best numbers.. Yes.. The Flames as a whole are a headcase.. But that is what the current management has done.. 

 

[MAC331]

19 hours ago, robrob74 said:

 

I agree. In the AHL they went with a 1a/1b load so he can handle a few extra games. 

 

Last year i thought that was an error / big mistake by the team, when Rittich looked like he could take more games and played solid, they spread it out too thin and killed his rhythm. 

 

I think a goalie can let in let in more than 3 or 4 or 5 goals and still look impressive. 

Some of those losses, Rittich looked that way, while others, most notably the later part of the year. 

 

I know Kipper could take more workload, but I feel like some more rest would allow backup to get comfy, while keeping Kipper fresh. We failed then and I think we’re doing that now.

To a degree all coaches try to ride the hot hand and provide the team some confidence also. It will take some real discipline on BPs part to ride with a goal sharing schedule and I hope this is what we will see.

[jjgallow]

22 hours ago, Horsman1 said:

Kipper was universally loved but he changed the way goalies in Calgary are perceived.. Prior to Kipper, one of the most well thought of goalies to play here was Reggie Lemelin.. Kipper insisted the our defense back away from the shots so he had a clear view at all shots.. This started out well except that in order for him to be successful, Our team defense strategy changed immeasurably.. It continued with the Hiring of Smith..  and his insistence on carrying and moving the puck in his zone.. The defense's job is not to go back and dig the puck, but to be prepared to accept first pass out of defensive zone to move the play forward.. Our new kids coming in to back up Smith have to understand that when they have their turn in net, The team is adjusted to Smith,,, Not a conventional goaltender and therefore.. The best option the Flames have at this time.. is to find a goalie that has the personality to inject confidence in the team.. Not necceesarily a goalie with the best numbers.. Yes.. The Flames as a whole are a headcase.. But that is what the current management has done.. 

 

 

I agree with all of this.  

 

Except the part about not needing a goalie with good numbers.

[travel_dude]

On 9/5/2018 at 4:26 PM, Horsman1 said:

Kipper was universally loved but he changed the way goalies in Calgary are perceived.. Prior to Kipper, one of the most well thought of goalies to play here was Reggie Lemelin.. Kipper insisted the our defense back away from the shots so he had a clear view at all shots.. This started out well except that in order for him to be successful, Our team defense strategy changed immeasurably.. It continued with the Hiring of Smith..  and his insistence on carrying and moving the puck in his zone.. The defense's job is not to go back and dig the puck, but to be prepared to accept first pass out of defensive zone to move the play forward.. Our new kids coming in to back up Smith have to understand that when they have their turn in net, The team is adjusted to Smith,,, Not a conventional goaltender and therefore.. The best option the Flames have at this time.. is to find a goalie that has the personality to inject confidence in the team.. Not necceesarily a goalie with the best numbers.. Yes.. The Flames as a whole are a headcase.. But that is what the current management has done.. 

 

 

I would say that it's important for the team to adjust Smith to some strategy other than letting the goalie constantly clear the puck.

BP seems to be the guy to instill that in him.  Gully would never question him and Sigalet is pretty much useless.

There's no way you can break out with a good first pass if the goalie is disrupting that and putting the D in a difficult position.

Sure they could adjust to it, but it leads to confusion.  You can't expect the D to back off the puck and then turn around and dump it.

I was fine with him stopping the puck on dump ins, but just stop it, don't habg onto it.

 

My feeling with Rittich was that he was fine while he let the D deal with the puck and just focus on stopping it.  When he changed his game to playing it more, things started to fall off the rails.  May not be the only reason, but it took away from his game.

[MAC331]

2 hours ago, travel_dude said:

 

I would say that it's important for the team to adjust Smith to some strategy other than letting the goalie constantly clear the puck.

BP seems to be the guy to instill that in him.  Gully would never question him and Sigalet is pretty much useless.

There's no way you can break out with a good first pass if the goalie is disrupting that and putting the D in a difficult position.

Sure they could adjust to it, but it leads to confusion.  You can't expect the D to back off the puck and then turn around and dump it.

I was fine with him stopping the puck on dump ins, but just stop it, don't habg onto it.

 

My feeling with Rittich was that he was fine while he let the D deal with the puck and just focus on stopping it.  When he changed his game to playing it more, things started to fall off the rails.  May not be the only reason, but it took away from his game.

LOL you expecting Smith to change his ways, don't count on it. All goalies need to be able to handle the puck competently and Rittich needs to get better not be afraid to do it at all