Goaltending

[JTech780]

9 minutes ago, DirtyDeeds said:

I would ask the question(to all) why most on these boards are willing to give the players a free get out of jail card on our season yet want to hold the goaltenders to task for the season?

 

That and no one has pointed fingers at the coaches.

 

Is the system not the right one for this team?

Easy to say we need play a possession style but if we can't play that style effectively then we are paddling this canoe against the currents.

ie: LA is one of the better possession teams in league.. A lot of good that did them when you can't score.

Chicago is a good possession team. They got bumped from playoffs in 4 games too.

 

That possession style game got those two teams a combined 5 Cups in the last 8 years. So I would say we are on the right track.  

[JTech780]

5 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I would say this team made continuous progress while implementing these new system but by no means perfected them. I think we have a systems this team can grow into together which is why I bring up the point why not with the same goaltenders ? Stick together, well except for the ones that are on their way out anyways.

 

I don't see either goalie as a number 1 or being capable of being a number 1. Both had great stretches of about 10 games but the rest of the time they were well below average. 

 

We need a goalie who can take the reigns. 

[Flyerfan52]

1 hour ago, Kipper14 said:

Feels like we missed the boat on Darling, he had that same kinda scenerio as Talbot, backup on a solid team ready to take on a #1 starters role somewhere.

 

Feels to me the clear choice to go after right now is Bishop, and then resign either Elliott or Johnson to remain as a solid backup to play 20-25 games or possibly take over if Bishop falters.

 

Fleury is playing lights out right now for Pitts, but he still worries me with his mental lapses at times, he can either play like the best goalie in the world or be very average.

 

With Elliotts up and down season, and with his last goal allowed in Game 4, I bet he'd sign on for another year at 1.5-2 million, sucks for him cause his stock was sky high heading into playoffs, and then absolutely plummeted in 4 games. There is speculation that Winnipeg may be a fit for him but if that happens, Johnson wants to remain a Flame.

With Darling likely soon to be signed I'm looking @ Grubauer. If Washington decides to sign & keep him instead of Holtby (same situation a Pitts where $s might dictate who stays) 1 or the other should be available.

Holtby @ 6.1 x 3 is more appealing to me than MAF @ 5.75 x 2 or Bishop who will want more $s & term. Grubauer would be the similar situation as Darling (but 3 years younger) so probably around $4.0 x 3.

We missed out on Darling but as soon as the playoffs end in Washington BT should be talking to Brian MacLennan.

Hold off on signing a backup as Holtby is good for 60+ games so the b/u is almost an afterthought while with Grubauer I'd want 1 capable of tandeming if needed. (The difference in cap hit also determines how much is left to sign that b/u)

[robrob74]

1 hour ago, DirtyDeeds said:

I would ask the question(to all) why most on these boards are willing to give the players a free get out of jail card on our season yet want to hold the goaltenders to task for the season?

 

That and no one has pointed fingers at the coaches.

 

Is the system not the right one for this team?

Easy to say we need play a possession style but if we can't play that style effectively then we are paddling this canoe against the currents.

ie: LA is one of the better possession teams in league.. A lot of good that did them when you can't score.

Chicago is a good possession team. They got bumped from playoffs in 4 games too.

 

 

I finally put blame on the goalies because we did outplay Anaheim in all games. A few were closer and one should have been a blowout.

 

the team made mental mistakes in them yes. But when the goalie can't make a fundamental save in the most critical times, that is troubling. I don't want to give the team a pass as there were bad changes; the team taking the foot off the pedal; and other problems as well.

 

i am not usually one to blame goalies but I don't like it when we have a great lead and a goalie can't make a save to save his life. 

[phoenix66]

1 hour ago, MAC331 said:

We always just get our views on here and it makes me wonder what the players thought are on Elliott and Johnson's efforts. I hate seeing a constantly revolving door with our goaltending. This team was to be transitioning into more of a puck possession style of play and I don't know that the team achieved their goal. We saw a lot of coughed up pucks all over the ice and plenty of times when we should have gotten out of our own zone and didn't When this was occurring the scramble was on and we received many good saves in these circumstances from Elliott and Johnson. Nobody likes soft goals being allowed but they happen to all the goalies, maybe its time to stick together and support each other by bringing back both Elliott and Johnson on 2 year deals. We have it seems a good back up brewing with Rittich for any injury coverage and this would allow Gilles real time to be NHL ready.

 

In a sense this kind of backs up my point on getting a legit #1.. at least since we won the cup, we have a history of "giving people a chance"

Outside of Sutter and Kennan, we hire coaches with no or little  NHL HC Experience

We hire GM's with no GM experience .. and when we do , they got the prev job by default (Feaster)

WE trade established stars for prospects(Iggy, Joe, Kent Nilsson ..)

We look for diamonds.. we brought in 2 goalies with basically no NHL history knowing one was to be our #1 for &^^$#@ sakes

 

Sometimes it pays off.. but everytime its a gamble.

 

Call it what you want , but Elliot was a gamble. a very calculated one, and one I would do again , but a gamble nonetheless. If this were a younger player Id say give him the chance to grow, learn from it, come back better .. but at his age , he is what he is..  An above average tender , who will give you great games, but can sometimes let you down .  He had an awesome run last season in St Louis.. but against San Jose that year he was average again .. and they lost .

Now we got people again wanting to gamble.. find the next Talbot / Jones.. well for every Talbot / Jones.. theres a Halak or St Louis Chris Osgood

 

We now have a pipeline for goaltending .. but we didn't for a long time so we've been tinkering with the "Now" while the future gets ready. Nope, its time we stopped gambling here , solidify it with the proven player.. then you give the futures a chance to get in properly .

 

Like i said earlier, I am 100% certain this is what BT will do .. willing to put it in print so it can be used against me later if necessary..

 

Our #1 next year will be one of Fleury, Bishop , or Murray

I can see Elliot ending up in Winnipeg

[phoenix66]

1 hour ago, DirtyDeeds said:

I would ask the question(to all) why most on these boards are willing to give the players a free get out of jail card on our season yet want to hold the goaltenders to task for the season?

 

That and no one has pointed fingers at the coaches.

 

Is the system not the right one for this team?

Easy to say we need play a possession style but if we can't play that style effectively then we are paddling this canoe against the currents.

ie: LA is one of the better possession teams in league.. A lot of good that did them when you can't score.

Chicago is a good possession team. They got bumped from playoffs in 4 games too.

Well this is the Goaltending thread.. if you hop over to the "where do we go from here" thread , we're pretty much trading everybody

 

In terms of the coaching , I think we took huge strides this year . LA and Chicago are simply becoming a victim of age.. their possession stats actually dipped this year . Look no further than Pittsburgh to see one of the best in action .

We played Anaheim better than Edmonton is right now.. the only reason Anaheim is down 2-0 to Edmonton and up 2-0 on us is goaltending .. Talbot .. pure and simple

It took til past mid season to get full buy in and we became a different team. Now we need to put the best players in place to execute it .

We couldn't wait to ship Engelland and Stajan out of town 2 seasons ago, now many here would welcome Engelland back (at the right price of course) ..  Stajan too, but his contract unfortunately means he has to go somehow 

[robrob74]

11 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

 

In a sense this kind of backs up my point on getting a legit #1.. at least since we won the cup, we have a history of "giving people a chance"

Outside of Sutter and Kennan, we hire coaches with no or little  NHL HC Experience

We hire GM's with no GM experience .. and when we do , they got the prev job by default (Feaster)

WE trade established stars for prospects(Iggy, Joe, Kent Nilsson ..)

We look for diamonds.. we brought in 2 goalies with basically no NHL history knowing one was to be our #1 for &^^$#@ sakes

 

Sometimes it pays off.. but everytime its a gamble.

 

Call it what you want , but Elliot was a gamble. a very calculated one, and one I would do again , but a gamble nonetheless. If this were a younger player Id say give him the chance to grow, learn from it, come back better .. but at his age , he is what he is..  An above average tender , who will give you great games, but can sometimes let you down .  He had an awesome run last season in St Louis.. but against San Jose that year he was average again .. and they lost .

Now we got people again wanting to gamble.. find the next Talbot / Jones.. well for every Talbot / Jones.. theres a Halak or St Louis Chris Osgood

 

We now have a pipeline for goaltending .. but we didn't for a long time so we've been tinkering with the "Now" while the future gets ready. Nope, its time we stopped gambling here , solidify it with the proven player.. then you give the futures a chance to get in properly .

 

Like i said earlier, I am 100% certain this is what BT will do .. willing to put it in print so it can be used against me later if necessary..

 

Our #1 next year will be one of Fleury, Bishop , or Murray

I can see Elliot ending up in Winnipeg

 

Right now I would take the Chris Osgood that won a few cups. You can say goalies like him or Crawford are just average goalies and win due to their circumstances, well, in our circumstance, if we had league average tending with saves made when needed (when cold), then we could've had a different fate. 

 

I am with you on chances. It is annoying. They did the same in the Fleury deal. 

[phoenix66]

44 minutes ago, Flyerfan52 said:

With Darling likely soon to be signed I'm looking @ Grubauer. If Washington decides to sign & keep him instead of Holtby (same situation a Pitts where $s might dictate who stays) 1 or the other should be available.

Holtby @ 6.1 x 3 is more appealing to me than MAF @ 5.75 x 2 or Bishop who will want more $s & term. Grubauer would be the similar situation as Darling (but 3 years younger) so probably around $4.0 x 3.

We missed out on Darling but as soon as the playoffs end in Washington BT should be talking to Brian MacLennan.

Hold off on signing a backup as Holtby is good for 60+ games so the b/u is almost an afterthought while with Grubauer I'd want 1 capable of tandeming if needed. (The difference in cap hit also determines how much is left to sign that b/u)

I half agree with this..  in the off chance Holtby comes available , I definitely go after him , but no Grubauer.. unless its as the backup 

Only knock i have on Holtby is he seems to never come up Clutch when his team truly needs him..like last night 

[jjgallow]

21 hours ago, conundrumed said:

For the bolded, it's too early to say that. Both Mony, especially, and Johnny can still be that. I don't see many current players that can snipe like Monahan from the slot, that is definitely his gift, and his FO% has steadily increased every year. With more seasoning, I can see him becoming Toews-like at the dot and constantly sniping 30+

We have a lot to look forward to, just depends on your perspective.

 

I absolutely agree that Mony can be Toews.   I just don't see Toews in that same light, as being generational or being one of the best of our generation.  It's a grey area for sure, he's definitely a star, probably a superstar.    

 

One thing's for sure, Mony isn't McDavid.  Mony Probably isn't Draisaitl.  It's probably not too early to say that much.

 

So, on one hand, I feel you are correct, and we as fans just have to have the right perspective.

 

On the other hand, maybe our willingness to pay to watch them be middle of the pack for decades on end is ... exactly why that's what we have.  For another thread.

 

 

[MAC331]

51 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

 

In a sense this kind of backs up my point on getting a legit #1.. at least since we won the cup, we have a history of "giving people a chance"

Outside of Sutter and Kennan, we hire coaches with no or little  NHL HC Experience

We hire GM's with no GM experience .. and when we do , they got the prev job by default (Feaster)

WE trade established stars for prospects(Iggy, Joe, Kent Nilsson ..)

We look for diamonds.. we brought in 2 goalies with basically no NHL history knowing one was to be our #1 for &^^$#@ sakes

 

Sometimes it pays off.. but everytime its a gamble.

 

Call it what you want , but Elliot was a gamble. a very calculated one, and one I would do again , but a gamble nonetheless. If this were a younger player Id say give him the chance to grow, learn from it, come back better .. but at his age , he is what he is..  An above average tender , who will give you great games, but can sometimes let you down .  He had an awesome run last season in St Louis.. but against San Jose that year he was average again .. and they lost .

Now we got people again wanting to gamble.. find the next Talbot / Jones.. well for every Talbot / Jones.. theres a Halak or St Louis Chris Osgood

 

We now have a pipeline for goaltending .. but we didn't for a long time so we've been tinkering with the "Now" while the future gets ready. Nope, its time we stopped gambling here , solidify it with the proven player.. then you give the futures a chance to get in properly .

 

Like i said earlier, I am 100% certain this is what BT will do .. willing to put it in print so it can be used against me later if necessary..

 

Our #1 next year will be one of Fleury, Bishop , or Murray

I can see Elliot ending up in Winnipeg

Fair enough but I think you said it best with "they are all a gamble". We would all likely do something a bit different or make a different choice, all I am saying is this team needs a few years to mature into themselves and Elliott and Johnson would fine for those few years. You sign a Bishop or a Fleury and the fanbase will be expecting SC right away and that isn't going to happen. As a team we are will be transitioning in some younger players once again while our core is still learning on the job.

[MAC331]

34 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I half agree with this..  in the off chance Holtby comes available , I definitely go after him , but no Grubauer.. unless its as the backup 

Only knock i have on Holtby is he seems to never come up Clutch when his team truly needs him..like last night 

I don't think any goalie would ever be good enough in your eyes.

[conundrumed]

15 minutes ago, jjgallow said:

 

I absolutely agree that Mony can be Toews.   I just don't see Toews in that same light, as being generational or being one of the best of our generation.  It's a grey area for sure, he's definitely a star, probably a superstar.    

 

One thing's for sure, Mony isn't McDavid.  Mony Probably isn't Draisaitl.  It's probably not too early to say that much.

 

So, on one hand, I feel you are correct, and we as fans just have to have the right perspective.

 

On the other hand, maybe our willingness to pay to watch them be middle of the pack for decades on end is ... exactly why that's what we have.  For another thread.

 

 

Take Drai away from McD and put him at C. See what happens...McD is easily the next Crosby, so you're going right to the top of the pack, he's likely the best player in the world already. He doesn't even have to put up points, the mere threat he poses makes every opponent adjust in ways that they otherwise wouldn't.

Now look at Mony at 22. Imagine what might be at 25. Has he plateaued? I highly doubt it. I also believe there is a lot more to Bennett as he continues to figure it out.

It's important to remember we only have scraps for him for linemates. Heck, in yr 1 Tkachuk gets Backs and Frolik consistently. Bennett gets scraps.

Teams want guys like Bennett, the Flames really need to give him what he needs to succeed. Barring that, we trade him low and become very sorry for it.

While we keep screaming for G and D, I wish we would wake up and realize we keep leaving Bennett with little to work with. We need some wingers, desperately.

Or go the Draisaitl route and call him a winger.

[manu11]

I'm still not sure what would be the best move, but I'm trending to a veteran nr.1 guy. Although I wouldn't trade a lot for 1, since we lost quite a few picks since the draft. So it's pretty much Bishop who I would target. The fact that he didn't have a good season and had injury problems might be good for the contract negotiations.

 

I would also be ok, if we traded for a backup with starter potential, Raanta and Korpisalo are 2 guys I like. In that case we also need a 1b type of guy, maybe re-signing Johnson or getting a guy like Halak for cheap.

 

The only thing I'm sure of is that they shouldn't bring back Elliott, he got every chance to be the Nr.1 guy, but in my eyes he failed. I was 50:50 after the regular season about re-signing him, but his playoff performance kind of sealed the deal for me.

[phoenix66]

17 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Fair enough but I think you said it best with "they are all a gamble". We would all likely do something a bit different or make a different choice, all I am saying is this team needs a few years to mature into themselves and Elliott and Johnson would fine for those few years. You sign a Bishop or a Fleury and the fanbase will be expecting SC right away and that isn't going to happen. As a team we are will be transitioning in some younger players once again while our core is still learning on the job.

According to Vegas today , Edmonton is now the favourite to win the Cup.. aside from 1 obvious player , I really don't think they have a better team than us . I said before the 1st round, we get past Anaheim the finals are a real possibility. Would we be classified as instant contender ? No.. but whats wrong with going into the playoffs each year knowing we have a legitimate shot. Yes this team is still evolving , but with better goaltending suddenly we are in Edmonton's spot.

Your goal every year should be to win the cup ..  in a rebuild its ok to be proud of the progress you made , but once making the playoffs is no longer a goal but an expectation ,   then the cup is your goal.. accepting less because "youre rebuilding " is unacceptable

 

18 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

I don't think any goalie would ever be good enough in your eyes.

I think I've been pretty Clear .. Ben Bishop.. if you could convince me Rask were available i might change my opinion . And its not just a gut reaction , its based on hard facts .

 

Last 10 years , 20 games or more of playoffs experience:

 

1	Braden Holtby	G	54	54	26	28			1687	1575	112	.934	1.98	3396:13	4	0	2	2	6
2	Craig Anderson	G	35	35	18	16			1189	1107	82	.931	2.28	2155:06	4	0	1	1	0
3	Tuukka Rask	G	53	53	30	23			1705	1583	122	.928	2.12	3450:02	5	0	2	2	2
4	Ben Bishop	G	36	36	21	13			966	895	71	.927	2.09	2041:24	5	0	3	3	4

 

19

Brian Elliott

G

41

39

15

22

1084

984

100

.908

2.60

2305:16

1

0

0

0

4

 

Last 10 years ; 200 or more regular season starts

1	Tuukka Rask	G	395	377	204	123	0	48	10927	10083	844	.923	2.24	22601:18	38	0	9	9	16
2	Cory Schneider	G	330	314	144	124	0	46	9182	8464	718	.922	2.28	18861:07	23	0	8	8	4
3	Braden Holtby	G	307	299	191	73	0	31	8658	7980	678	.922	2.31	17610:57	32	0	8	8	17
4	Carey Price	G	509	500	270	175	0	55	15058	13855	1203	.920	2.40	30053:57	39	0	12	12	43
5	Sergei Bobrovsky	G	330	321	181	107	0	30	9614	8843	771	.920	2.45	18903:43	19	0	7	7	18
6	Henrik Lundqvist	G	689	682	375	237	0	67	19507	17938	1569	.920	2.32	40516:17	59	0	20	20	16
7	Roberto Luongo	G	625	617	338	197	0	75	17886	16440	1446	.919	2.38	36431:10	46	0	13	13	34
8	Ben Bishop	G	270	258	148	80	0	25	7314	6721	593	.919	2.32	15318:41	19	0	7	7	26

 

21

Brian Elliott

G

372

339

191

117

0

35

9570

8741

829

.913

2.42

20551:51

36

0

6

6

6

 

 

Bishop Lifetime Records against Critical opponents

Anaheim Ducks

9

7

0

2

11

240

229

.954

1.24

1

2

533:30

6

1

0

Edmonton Oilers

8

5

1

1

13

214

201

.939

1.82

1

0

427:52

5

3

1

Chicago Blackhawks

6

4

1

1

14

185

171

.924

2.45

1

0

343:20

11

3

0

 

Brian Elliot against those same teams

Anaheim Ducks

12

1

7

3

37

320

283

.884

3.20

0

0

694:25

23

7

0

Edmonton Oilers

16

9

6

1

40

391

351

.898

2.59

1

0

927:46

18

8

0

Chicago Blackhawks

18

7

8

1

41

455

414

.910

2.50

0

0

984:28

25

6

3

 

 

 

so like I said I'm not just going after the popular sexy pick...  I'd gladly take Rask but I don't see him going anywhere .. I give Schneider a free pass on the Playoff stats for obvious reasons , but the cost of Holtby , Schneider and Rask  I feel would be too high when Bishop is a good fit and all we have to do is pay him.

I have it on good authority the main reason we moved to Elliot from Bishop last year was the acquisition cost .. our 1st rounder was in the request , and we also didnt have the ability to risk a high cap hit at that time..now we do .. and the cost last year was looking in the high 5's..not the 6x7 everyone seemed to think was floating around 

 

Note that I bolded the win / loss for Playoffs Holtby vs Bishop.. BH may have the better save %, but Bishop has hands down the better win %

 

Bishop wins. regular season and playoffs..  and he also beats the 3 teams we will likely have to keep facing to have any shot at getting out of the conference 

 

[jjgallow]

25 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Take Drai away from McD and put him at C. See what happens...McD is easily the next Crosby, so you're going right to the top of the pack, he's likely the best player in the world already. He doesn't even have to put up points, the mere threat he poses makes every opponent adjust in ways that they otherwise wouldn't.

Now look at Mony at 22. Imagine what might be at 25. Has he plateaued? I highly doubt it. I also believe there is a lot more to Bennett as he continues to figure it out.

It's important to remember we only have scraps for him for linemates. Heck, in yr 1 Tkachuk gets Backs and Frolik consistently. Bennett gets scraps.

Teams want guys like Bennett, the Flames really need to give him what he needs to succeed. Barring that, we trade him low and become very sorry for it.

While we keep screaming for G and D, I wish we would wake up and realize we keep leaving Bennett with little to work with. We need some wingers, desperately.

Or go the Draisaitl route and call him a winger.

 

Sure, could be all true, I wouldn't be shocked.  Maybe it's all McDavid.  But either way we're in the same boat.

 

And that's highlighted in some of your frustrations while elaborating this.  Sure we need goalies and D, but we also need wingers pretty badly.   Ok, make Bennett a winger.  Perfect.   Whoops, now we lack elite centers.  

 

We just don't have the pieces...even if all these players do improve the way we hope they will.  It's an incomplete rebuild lacking the elite pipeline required to answer some of these bigger questions.    Could we address it all?  Sure.  Anything is possible.  But in the last 28 years, we haven't really been known to do so.

 

But yeah, I agree on Bennett and Tkachuk.   And I agree that we also see glimpses of dominance in Monahan.  Unfortunately, I also agree that we may never have all the pieces to capitalize on it consistently.

[MAC331]

3 hours ago, JTech780 said:

 

I don't see either goalie as a number 1 or being capable of being a number 1. Both had great stretches of about 10 games but the rest of the time they were well below average. 

 

We need a goalie who can take the reigns. 

Maybe but maybe we just need to have everyone get better together instead of constant change in the net.

[MAC331]

19 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

According to Vegas today , Edmonton is now the favourite to win the Cup.. aside from 1 obvious player , I really don't think they have a better team than us . I said before the 1st round, we get past Anaheim the finals are a real possibility. Would we be classified as instant contender ? No.. but whats wrong with going into the playoffs each year knowing we have a legitimate shot. Yes this team is still evolving , but with better goaltending suddenly we are in Edmonton's spot.

Your goal every year should be to win the cup ..  in a rebuild its ok to be proud of the progress you made , but once making the playoffs is no longer a goal but an expectation ,   then the cup is your goal.. accepting less because "youre rebuilding " is unacceptable

 

I think I've been pretty Clear .. Ben Bishop.. if you could convince me Rask were available i might change my opinion . And its not just a gut reaction , its based on hard facts .

 

Last 10 years , 20 games or more of playoffs experience:

 

1	Braden Holtby	G	54	54	26	28			1687	1575	112	.934	1.98	3396:13	4	0	2	2	6
2	Craig Anderson	G	35	35	18	16			1189	1107	82	.931	2.28	2155:06	4	0	1	1	0
3	Tuukka Rask	G	53	53	30	23			1705	1583	122	.928	2.12	3450:02	5	0	2	2	2
4	Ben Bishop	G	36	36	21	13			966	895	71	.927	2.09	2041:24	5	0	3	3	4

 

19

Brian Elliott

G

41

39

15

22

1084

984

100

.908

2.60

2305:16

1

0

0

0

4

 

Last 10 years ; 200 or more regular season starts

1	Tuukka Rask	G	395	377	204	123	0	48	10927	10083	844	.923	2.24	22601:18	38	0	9	9	16
2	Cory Schneider	G	330	314	144	124	0	46	9182	8464	718	.922	2.28	18861:07	23	0	8	8	4
3	Braden Holtby	G	307	299	191	73	0	31	8658	7980	678	.922	2.31	17610:57	32	0	8	8	17
4	Carey Price	G	509	500	270	175	0	55	15058	13855	1203	.920	2.40	30053:57	39	0	12	12	43
5	Sergei Bobrovsky	G	330	321	181	107	0	30	9614	8843	771	.920	2.45	18903:43	19	0	7	7	18
6	Henrik Lundqvist	G	689	682	375	237	0	67	19507	17938	1569	.920	2.32	40516:17	59	0	20	20	16
7	Roberto Luongo	G	625	617	338	197	0	75	17886	16440	1446	.919	2.38	36431:10	46	0	13	13	34
8	Ben Bishop	G	270	258	148	80	0	25	7314	6721	593	.919	2.32	15318:41	19	0	7	7	26

 

21

Brian Elliott

G

372

339

191

117

0

35

9570

8741

829

.913

2.42

20551:51

36

0

6

6

6

 

 

Bishop Lifetime Records against Critical opponents

Anaheim Ducks

9

7

0

2

11

240

229

.954

1.24

1

2

533:30

6

1

0

Edmonton Oilers

8

5

1

1

13

214

201

.939

1.82

1

0

427:52

5

3

1

Chicago Blackhawks

6

4

1

1

14

185

171

.924

2.45

1

0

343:20

11

3

0

 

Brian Elliot against those same teams

Anaheim Ducks

12

1

7

3

37

320

283

.884

3.20

0

0

694:25

23

7

0

Edmonton Oilers

16

9

6

1

40

391

351

.898

2.59

1

0

927:46

18

8

0

Chicago Blackhawks

18

7

8

1

41

455

414

.910

2.50

0

0

984:28

25

6

3

 

 

 

so like I said I'm not just going after the popular sexy pick...  I'd gladly take Rask but I don't see him going anywhere .. I give Schneider a free pass on the Playoff stats for obvious reasons , but the cost of Holtby , Schneider and Rask  I feel would be too high when Bishop is a good fit and all we have to do is pay him.

I have it on good authority the main reason we moved to Elliot from Bishop last year was the acquisition cost .. our 1st rounder was in the request , and we also didnt have the ability to risk a high cap hit at that time..now we do .. and the cost last year was looking in the high 5's..not the 6x7 everyone seemed to think was floating around 

 

Note that I bolded the win / loss for Playoffs Holtby vs Bishop.. BH may have the better save %, but Bishop has hands down the better win %

 

Bishop wins. regular season and playoffs..  and he also beats the 3 teams we will likely have to keep facing to have any shot at getting out of the conference 

 

I won't complain if we get Bishop.

[phoenix66]

6 minutes ago, MAC331 said:

Maybe but maybe we just need to have everyone get better together instead of constant change in the net.

oh yes.. and dont get us wrong .. I dont think anybody is saying we need to keep the team the same next season and just change the goalie

Our 2nd pair needs to be solidified ..maybe with Stone , or somebody else.. our 3rd paier needs to be better ..period

Chiasson, Stajan,Bouma..all need to be upgraded ..Brouwer needs to either show up next year or get moved 

I like Ferland on the top line , but he needs to merge his Jekyll and Hyde into one player or we need to get an Oshie type in there and maybe move Ferland to play with Bennett...

 

2 seasons ago, with our overall team play and defense,  wouldn't have mattered who we had back there .. Average was a major step up ..now we need to keep stepping up 

[MAC331]

48 minutes ago, conundrumed said:

Take Drai away from McD and put him at C. See what happens...McD is easily the next Crosby, so you're going right to the top of the pack, he's likely the best player in the world already. He doesn't even have to put up points, the mere threat he poses makes every opponent adjust in ways that they otherwise wouldn't.

Now look at Mony at 22. Imagine what might be at 25. Has he plateaued? I highly doubt it. I also believe there is a lot more to Bennett as he continues to figure it out.

It's important to remember we only have scraps for him for linemates. Heck, in yr 1 Tkachuk gets Backs and Frolik consistently. Bennett gets scraps.

Teams want guys like Bennett, the Flames really need to give him what he needs to succeed. Barring that, we trade him low and become very sorry for it.

While we keep screaming for G and D, I wish we would wake up and realize we keep leaving Bennett with little to work with. We need some wingers, desperately.

Or go the Draisaitl route and call him a winger.

Give him Tkachuk and Lazar next season and see what happens.

[conundrumed]

Just now, MAC331 said:

Maybe but maybe we just need to have everyone get better together instead of constant change in the net.

Well said, we aren't the Rangers of yore buying everything we think might work.

At some point, you have to say, this is the group I like and stop overhauling it every yr because you didn't like the results.

THAT'S how teams are built. Not just the sexy names.

When you support your troops, they support you. It is more than money, it has to be personal.

You go back to our goalie tandem now, I believe it's no longer about money. It's about investing in faith from both sides, and I believe that is very important in team building.

I wanted to cry for Elliott after the game 4 flub.

You get behind your guys when they're down.

In most instances, they'll repay you, by a lot.

I personally believe Elliott will play with a giant chip on his shoulder next year, and I would be more than okay if that is our chip.

[Thebrewcrew]

Ok I haven't posted in a while but here are my thoughts (sorry if they are scattered).

MA Fleury- I have seen lots of people suggest the Flames go after Fleury this offseason. I must admit I have never been a fan of his, but good for him for bouncing back after a tough regular season and playing lights out this playoffs, I would be ok with BT acquiring him. However I have a gut feeling he heads to DAL. Due to the cap situation the Stars have in net, I imagine Niemi is bought out. I don't imagine DAL would be able to sign Bishop just because I think it would be a mistake for DAL to buy both their goalies out. I think DAL trades Lehtonen a pick and mid level prospect to PIT. It also should be noted Fleury has the NMC and I think he would choose Dallas over Calgary.

 

Bishop- I am a huge Bishop fan. His puckhandling ability is amazing as he has the ability to shutdown/alter the forecheck of opposing teams, I can't recall the Flames ever having a G who was proficient in puckhandling. However there are some red flags with Bishop.

Injury history:

2014- Injured prior to the start of the playoffs, TB is forced to start Anders Lindback. TB gets swept by MTL

2015- Cup finals. Bishop forced to leave in game 2 with an injury, and he was also unable to start game 4 due to injury. TB lost the series 4-2.

2016- Conference finals. Bishop suffers a lower body injury in the 1st period of game one. He missed the rest of the series and TB lost 4-3.

2017-Bishop missed lots of time this season with TB and they ended up missing the playoffs.

Another concern I have with signing Bishop is the contract. I am fine with giving him 6 miil/yr, but it's the term thats going to worry me, I would offer him 6x4 or even 6.5x4 due to the fact I think Parsons and Gillies have a chance to be really good goalies. I also think Vegas is going to be going hard after Bishop as McPhee mentioned he has permission from Foley to spend big on free agents. I wouldn't be surprised to hear of Vegas offering Bishop a 6 or 7 year deal.

 

I would target the following 2 guys

 

Grubauer- I know lots of users on here think it's time to go after a legit #1 and I don't argue with that, as I was very frustrated with the goaltending in round one. However I think Grubauer has what it takes to be a starter. Unlike Elliott, Grubauer is much younger and therefore I think he still has a chance to get better. 

 

My other target would be Mike Smith out of AZ. The biggest reason I would go after Smith is because like Bishop he is a good puckhandler. I am not sure what the cost to acquire Smith would be though.

 

Those are just my thoughts, thanks for taking the time to read

[MAC331]

9 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Ok I haven't posted in a while but here are my thoughts (sorry if they are scattered).

MA Fleury- I have seen lots of people suggest the Flames go after Fleury this offseason. I must admit I have never been a fan of his, but good for him for bouncing back after a tough regular season and playing lights out this playoffs, I would be ok with BT acquiring him. However I have a gut feeling he heads to DAL. Due to the cap situation the Stars have in net, I imagine Niemi is bought out. I don't imagine DAL would be able to sign Bishop just because I think it would be a mistake for DAL to buy both their goalies out. I think DAL trades Lehtonen a pick and mid level prospect to PIT. It also should be noted Fleury has the NMC and I think he would choose Dallas over Calgary.

 

Bishop- I am a huge Bishop fan. His puckhandling ability is amazing as he has the ability to shutdown/alter the forecheck of opposing teams, I can't recall the Flames ever having a G who was proficient in puckhandling. However there are some red flags with Bishop.

Injury history:

2014- Injured prior to the start of the playoffs, TB is forced to start Anders Lindback. TB gets swept by MTL

2015- Cup finals. Bishop forced to leave in game 2 with an injury, and he was also unable to start game 4 due to injury. TB lost the series 4-2.

2016- Conference finals. Bishop suffers a lower body injury in the 1st period of game one. He missed the rest of the series and TB lost 4-3.

2017-Bishop missed lots of time this season with TB and they ended up missing the playoffs.

Another concern I have with signing Bishop is the contract. I am fine with giving him 6 miil/yr, but it's the term thats going to worry me, I would offer him 6x4 or even 6.5x4 due to the fact I think Parsons and Gillies have a chance to be really good goalies. I also think Vegas is going to be going hard after Bishop as McPhee mentioned he has permission from Foley to spend big on free agents. I wouldn't be surprised to hear of Vegas offering Bishop a 6 or 7 year deal.

 

I would target the following 2 guys

 

Grubauer- I know lots of users on here think it's time to go after a legit #1 and I don't argue with that, as I was very frustrated with the goaltending in round one. However I think Grubauer has what it takes to be a starter. Unlike Elliott, Grubauer is much younger and therefore I think he still has a chance to get better. 

 

My other target would be Mike Smith out of AZ. The biggest reason I would go after Smith is because like Bishop he is a good puckhandler. I am not sure what the cost to acquire Smith would be though.

 

Those are just my thoughts, thanks for taking the time to read

Sure Stajan and Bouma for Smith's 6M

[phoenix66]

15 minutes ago, Thebrewcrew said:

Ok I haven't posted in a while but here are my thoughts (sorry if they are scattered).

MA Fleury- I have seen lots of people suggest the Flames go after Fleury this offseason. I must admit I have never been a fan of his, but good for him for bouncing back after a tough regular season and playing lights out this playoffs, I would be ok with BT acquiring him. However I have a gut feeling he heads to DAL. Due to the cap situation the Stars have in net, I imagine Niemi is bought out. I don't imagine DAL would be able to sign Bishop just because I think it would be a mistake for DAL to buy both their goalies out. I think DAL trades Lehtonen a pick and mid level prospect to PIT. It also should be noted Fleury has the NMC and I think he would choose Dallas over Calgary.

 

Bishop- I am a huge Bishop fan. His puckhandling ability is amazing as he has the ability to shutdown/alter the forecheck of opposing teams, I can't recall the Flames ever having a G who was proficient in puckhandling. However there are some red flags with Bishop.

Injury history:

2014- Injured prior to the start of the playoffs, TB is forced to start Anders Lindback. TB gets swept by MTL

2015- Cup finals. Bishop forced to leave in game 2 with an injury, and he was also unable to start game 4 due to injury. TB lost the series 4-2.

2016- Conference finals. Bishop suffers a lower body injury in the 1st period of game one. He missed the rest of the series and TB lost 4-3.

2017-Bishop missed lots of time this season with TB and they ended up missing the playoffs.

Another concern I have with signing Bishop is the contract. I am fine with giving him 6 miil/yr, but it's the term thats going to worry me, I would offer him 6x4 or even 6.5x4 due to the fact I think Parsons and Gillies have a chance to be really good goalies. I also think Vegas is going to be going hard after Bishop as McPhee mentioned he has permission from Foley to spend big on free agents. I wouldn't be surprised to hear of Vegas offering Bishop a 6 or 7 year deal.

 

I would target the following 2 guys

 

Grubauer- I know lots of users on here think it's time to go after a legit #1 and I don't argue with that, as I was very frustrated with the goaltending in round one. However I think Grubauer has what it takes to be a starter. Unlike Elliott, Grubauer is much younger and therefore I think he still has a chance to get better. 

 

My other target would be Mike Smith out of AZ. The biggest reason I would go after Smith is because like Bishop he is a good puckhandler. I am not sure what the cost to acquire Smith would be though.

 

Those are just my thoughts, thanks for taking the time to read

I do like the way you think !

 

on Bishop I agree with all your points as to the why ..  and I do agree his injury history could be parlayed into a more team -friendly contract . Maybe bonuses, shorter term etc. People also forget , we have one of the best training staffs in the league.. theres a reason we don't get a history of freak body injuries , we get broken fingers etc but not really the ones typically caused by bad conditioning . Thats the biggest reason his history isn't the big turn off to me . 

I also don't see him wanting much to do with Vegas..he wants a legitimate chance to play for a winner in the near future .. i suspect Vegas doesn't see the playoffs for at least 2-3 years being generous. Buffalo is actually the one that worries me.. I can see them throwing $ and term

 

On Fleury , I don't think he would decline Calgary 

 

I like Smith , but Phoenix has a history of making goalies look better than they are ..Bryzgalov etc..  Smith was only ok in Tampa ,  then hes been a stud his whole time in Phoenix.. with reservation I'd accept it , but not if they overlooked the others to do it 

[Thebrewcrew]

6 minutes ago, phoenix66 said:

I do like the way you think !

 

on Bishop I agree with all your points as to the why ..  and I do agree his injury history could be parlayed into a more team -friendly contract . Maybe bonuses, shorter term etc. People also forget , we have one of the best training staffs in the league.. theres a reason we don't get a history of freak body injuries , we get broken fingers etc but not really the ones typically caused by bad conditioning . Thats the biggest reason his history isn't the big turn off to me . 

I also don't see him wanting much to do with Vegas..he wants a legitimate chance to play for a winner in the near future .. i suspect Vegas doesn't see the playoffs for at least 2-3 years being generous. Buffalo is actually the one that worries me.. I can see them throwing $ and term

 

On Fleury , I don't think he would decline Calgary 

 

I like Smith , but Phoenix has a history of making goalies look better than they are ..Bryzgalov etc..  Smith was only ok in Tampa ,  then hes been a stud his whole time in Phoenix.. with reservation I'd accept it , but not if they overlooked the others to do it 

Regarding Bishop, I only think he would head to Vegas for the money. If he is still looking to lead a team to another cup final (why wouldn't he) then I think he signs with CGY or PHI (if DAL lands Fleury).

[conundrumed]

I wonder if last year's rumours of coming here doesn't leave Bishop bitter.

That might be something to consider.

The stories that leached out claim Bishop thought he was coming here until he heard we traded for Elliott on draft day, and his re-sign figure was <$6mil.

I can't speak to the legitimacy of that.

If true, does that leave Bishop hesitant to come here?