travel_dude Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 TBH, going into the summer Ramo was the Flames #1 goalie. Hiller was signed to be part of the goalie equation, but probably wouldn't have signed if he was told he was the backup. And BT/Hartley were probably expecting a big competition for #1, which they got early on. Both goalies have tendencies that expose them and teams watch films to see them. Hiller is basically the same goalie, game in game out. He lets in softies due to minor positioning problems (loses track of the net, I think). Ramo is more like a Kipper, who will amaze you some nights and make you scream other nights. His problem is getting on a roll. With Kipper, you get a bad game and the next is solid. With Ramo, you probably don't see the next game with him in nets. Trading either of them now doesn't make sense. They have low value. And we need to see Joni finish the season strong in Addy. At TDL, unless you get an awesome return, why bother trading them. You need to see who takes you further this season and keep them next year. Trade or don't sign the other. Do it before FA to see if any team is desperate (assuming it's Hiller). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 http://theahl.com/all-star-roster-changes-starters-named-p195898 Interesting note, the AHL put out a press release listing several players that would be unavailable for the All Star game and Ortio wasn't one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Hiller gets you best return, also clears 3 mill off the books.i also believe the difference in styles between ramo and Ortio is important, createsadvantage against different teams. Also, of the 2 Ramo has been more consistent in his game for us. Outside of the hot start, Ortio has allowed late backbreaking goals. You can argue team support, and i usually do, but facts are facts. With ramo I find you can get to him early, then he slams the door. Again its utterly ridiculous to trade any, but id feel less upset if it was Hiller.as a former goalie, I recognize chemistry and style and Ramo fits this team's style better. See I find Ramo and Ortio have similar styles, the rely on quickness and being athletic. Where as Hiller is more of blocking goaltender that relies on positioning. With Ramo I find he gets moving around in the net too much and gets out of position too easily, he really needs to calm his game down. With Hiller, I find as long as the defense is protecting the front of the net he is fine. He is generally in the right position to make the save but he lacks a bit of the quickness to make the desperation and post to post saves. Ortio so far seems to be the combination of the two. He plays well positionally and has the athleticism and quickness to make the desperation save. He just needs to gain experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 http://theahl.com/all-star-roster-changes-starters-named-p195898 Interesting note, the AHL put out a press release listing several players that would be unavailable for the All Star game and Ortio wasn't one of them. Unfortunately after tonight he made the decision easy.i suspect he'll be sent back Thursday. Not because he lost a game, but because to force a stay he needed to be strong even in a loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_henning Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Unfortunately after Anaheim he'll go down. Not surprising. It really hinged on this game, and though its not his fault, he couldn't solve the curse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulstad Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 At least 2 of those goals on him last night were not his fault. He had a great showing, and I honestly believe that, despite his 4-0 record prior to the Ducks game, he should have been rested. He's a starter in the AHL, but 5 straight tough games in the NHL was probably too much to ask of him right away. Ortio has absolutely nothing to be ashamed of (was great to see him give Hiller a tap of 'good luck' when he was pulled last night), and he has changed my original opinion of him. I can't wait to see him next year in camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyromancer Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Berube, Bachman added to All-Star rosters - theahl.com (January 22, 2015) SPRINGFIELD, Mass. … The American Hockey League announced today that Manchester Monarchs goaltender Jean-Francois Berube has been added to the Eastern Conference roster and Oklahoma City Barons goaltender Richard Bachman has been added to the Western Conference roster for the 2015 AHL All-Star Classic presented by Turning Stone Resort Casino, set for this Sunday and Monday in Utica, N.Y. In addition, the AHL announced that Adirondack goaltender Joni Ortio and Wilkes-Barre/Scranton goaltender Jeff Zatkoff will not be available for the event. It looks like Ortio is sticking around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 At least 2 of those goals on him last night were not his fault. He had a great showing, and I honestly believe that, despite his 4-0 record prior to the Ducks game, he should have been rested. He's a starter in the AHL, but 5 straight tough games in the NHL was probably too much to ask of him right away. Ortio has absolutely nothing to be ashamed of (was great to see him give Hiller a tap of 'good luck' when he was pulled last night), and he has changed my original opinion of him. I can't wait to see him next year in camp. I agree that Ortio should have been given the night off. It's not about "going with the hot hand" all the time; you have to consider the body of work he faced and spread the responsibility to the rest of the team (ie. other goalies and players). It looks like Ortio is sticking around. That is good, and bad. Joni was called up last year (missed the All Star game last year too). The good is that he will get a few more starts. The bad is that any losses will have a negative affect on his confidence. And, unless Hiller or Ramo is being traded, he will rotate in and out of the group of 3. Ramo is ready to play. Hiller is ready to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrek Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 This is exactly what I didn't want to happen... Ortio misses yet another All-Star game. For what? To sit with the team as they watch the all-star game? Ortio needs playing time and to not sit as a 3rd rotation in net. Either 1 of ramo or hiller should be traded to keep Ortio up or send Ortio back down so he can play his damn game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tincup1 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Unless the AHL all star game is a big deal to Joni, he could probably use the rest. Those all star games seem like a goalie nightmare anyway. Glad to see them keeping him around. I suspect if he falls out of the starter job in Calgary, he'll be sent down but I think he's earned it to keep going with the Flames...at least one more start anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmac70 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 With Ortio not being sent down someone is getting traded, So who is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 With Ortio not being sent down someone is getting traded, So who is it? My first reaction was the same. But then I think that Smid's return just means that Spoon or Granlund has to go. With Spoon sitting until next week, I also have to wonder what is happening with the defense. Are they about to demote Diaz? Trade Smid or Russell? Sit Engelland? It just doesn't make sense to me to have a 7th D called up for injury replacement unless he plays. Sure it is just a extra body around for last minute scratches. But it isn't any way to use a farm hand that projects to be a NHL player. Goalies are even more important to manage their rotation. Ramo went cold when he sat this year for extended periods (as well as last year behind Berra). Hiller was in a 3-goalie situation last year and came out without a job. Joni just needs to play as much as possible. Sending him back to start dominating the AHL was the best move (IMHO) unless you trade Hiller or Ramo now. And if he is the backup here, he needs to play every 3rd game at minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheersMan Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I agree that Ortio should have been given the night off. It's not about "going with the hot hand" all the time; you have to consider the body of work he faced and spread the responsibility to the rest of the team (ie. other goalies and players). Nonsense. He had days off between previous 4 games. There was no travel between SJ, LA or ANA games. He was 4-0 with a 0.958? SV%. You ride the hot goaltender given the situation. What would you be saying if they started Hiller and he was pulled after the first 4 goals? With Ortio not being sent down someone is getting traded, So who is it? Something appears to be up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cross16 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Hiller gets you best return, also clears 3 mill off the books.i also believe the difference in styles between ramo and Ortio is important, createsadvantage against different teams. Also, of the 2 Ramo has been more consistent in his game for us. Outside of the hot start, Ortio has allowed late backbreaking goals. You can argue team support, and i usually do, but facts are facts. With ramo I find you can get to him early, then he slams the door. Again its utterly ridiculous to trade any, but id feel less upset if it was Hiller.as a former goalie, I recognize chemistry and style and Ramo fits this team's style better. I don't think Hiller gets you much I'm return. He is an avg starting goalie, paid like a starter, and has an extra year on his deal that I think is going to kill and interest in him at the deadline. Maybe in the offseason but I still don't see a team giving up much for just an avg starting goalie making 4.5 mill for one year. I think you can trade Ramo at the deadline yo a team that may just want some goalie depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Nonsense. He had days off between previous 4 games. There was no travel between SJ, LA or ANA games. He was 4-0 with a 0.958? SV%. You ride the hot goaltender given the situation. What would you be saying if they started Hiller and he was pulled after the first 4 goals? Something appears to be up. I would have suggested Ramo start and Hiller backing up. Give the kid a break and not expect him to deliver a win in Anaheim for the first time in 10 years. There's a fine line between going with the hot hand and overplaying a rookie goalie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyromancer Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 01/22/2015 Joni Ortio (G) Adirondack ADD Returned on loan from Calgary (NHL) 01/22/2015 Markus Granlund (C ) Adirondack ADD Returned on loan from Calgary (NHL) 01/22/2015 Tyler Wotherspoon (D) Adirondack ADD Returned on loan from Calgary (NHL) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC331 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I actually thought they should have sent him down before last night's game on a 4 win high instead of trying to ride the kid for wins. Short sighted when rebuilding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrek Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Yay, They sent Ortio down along with Granlund and Tspoon apparently. This is exactly what I wanted, Addy has 2 more games before their All-Star break. (Friday/Saturday) Looks like they get some reinforcements. Sadly Ortio's All-star spot was taken due to this fiasco, so it's unlikely he gets to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Yay, They sent Ortio down along with Granlund and Tspoon apparently. This is exactly what I wanted, Addy has 2 more games before their All-Star break. (Friday/Saturday) Looks like they get some reinforcements. Sadly Ortio's All-star spot was taken due to this fiasco, so it's unlikely he gets to play. My guess is that they all get recalled on Monday, and that is why Ortio's spot was filled for the All Star game. The AHL All Star game is on Monday and Calgary plays on Tuesday. Bring them back on Monday to practice with the team and play on Tuesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tincup1 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Yeah, I suspect Ortio will be back next week and I want to see if Wotherspoon can help improve that 3rd pairing. Too bad Ady is so far away. A full day of travel just to get to the farm, they ought to put them in Saddledome or Corral for how many tickets they sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wreckening Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 The only way I see Ortio getting recalled is if there's another goalie injury or a trade is made. It just doesn't make sense to carry 3 goalies especially if you're trying to shop one. Ortio would be riding the pine or sitting in the press box if this were the case. It's better for him to be getting the starts in Addy and trying to push for the playoffs with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTech780 Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 The only way I see Ortio getting recalled is if there's another goalie injury or a trade is made. It just doesn't make sense to carry 3 goalies especially if you're trying to shop one. Ortio would be riding the pine or sitting in the press box if this were the case. It's better for him to be getting the starts in Addy and trying to push for the playoffs with them. Calgary is pushing for the playoffs and they are going to play however they think will give them he best chance to win, if that means going with Ortio while he is hot, then Ramo will watch from the press box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wreckening Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Calgary is pushing for the playoffs and they are going to play however they think will give them he best chance to win, if that means going with Ortio while he is hot, then Ramo will watch from the press box. And what happens if he goes cold? Yoyo'ing him back and forth from the farm to Calgary is not in the best interests of Ortio's development. He needs to play games and being in the A means he gets starts. Plus, as I said, if the Flames are looking to move a goalie to make room for Ortio having an asset in the press box doesn't do you any good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conundrumed Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 I agree with wreckening. Ortio has a ton of positives to take back with him. It isn't his time yet, he can be proud he got 4 huge W's, and gave the guys a great rest. Unless there is an injury, he should be in the A and become even more undeniably a top prospect goalie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darth_henning Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 I agree, the best thing to do is probably let Ortio get a good practice of dominating in 'ford and see how deep he can get them in the playoffs. Ramo and Hiller can play out the year. Even if Ortio managed to play as well as he did his first four games, we're not topping the league this year. Just getting into the playoffs is a win. Bring him up next year, along with some other changes and go from there. He'll be a great goalie, but we don't have good options right now unless Hiller or Ramo go in a package deal, and I'm not sure at this point that its in our interest to move pieces with current chemistry and results unless there's huge returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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