DirtyDeeds Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 When we re-signed JMac he was told he would get a shot at the starter goalie position. Anyone who says he is just a backup or does not deserve a chance at starting wasn't paying attention back when we signed him and/or hasn't been paying attention to the fine & high level of play he has shown the past few games.(ie highlight reel type saves) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 When we re-signed JMac he was told he would get a shot at the starter goalie position. Anyone who says he is just a backup or does not deserve a chance at starting wasn't paying attention back when we signed him and/or hasn't been paying attention to the fine & high level of play he has shown the past few games.(ie highlight reel type saves) I am not sure that is necessarily fair. I think most people's assessment was that (before last night) MacDonald hadn't perform any better than Ramo. The coaches had indicated a "you win you are in" approach to the goal tending situation so when the Flames lost to Vancouver with Mac in almost the identical way they lost to Washington with Ramo they were expecting Ramo to get the next start. I think that is a fair expectation. It appears to many, including a number of media close to the Flames, that the coaching staff has a bit of a preference to MacDonald. And if that is true that is a problem IMO because I think it is in the Flames best interest to see what they have in Ramo. That said, If MacDonald earns the starts (like he did last night) than I don't have any problem with him getting starts. I think putting him in tomorrow is absolutely the right call. And as I said above, Ramo not getting the start last night may have been because it was Montreal. But as we go forward I think fans will have a legitimate complaint if the Flames don't give Ramo a fair crack. MacDonald might be the starter this season. But he isn't the starter of tomorrow. The Flames need to find that person. They need to see enough of Ramo to at the very least scratch him off the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travel_dude Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 You made some good points in your post, but in terms of "obvious", I think we have to at least recognize that JMac has played a big part in giving us a winning record, and at times has been spectacular. He is also the only NHL -proven goalie we have. A backup, yes. But a backup for contenders and Stanley cup champions. And, at times, a successful starter for some very dodgy NHL teams. While I recognize the valid points you are making, I would not consider them obvious, but rather quite speculative. In particular, you are making an assumption that JMac is like some kind of battery that will "run out of juice" if played more than, say, 10 games. In reality, he's at an age that a lot of goalies just start to enter their prime, and may very well be better than he ever was. He's been a starter for some bad NHL teams, and he's been a backup for some incredible NHL teams, filling on back-to-back nights, never really having in from of him at their most defensively conscious. He has played as many as 49 NHL games in a season, and did just fine. I don't think any goaltender his age should play more than 60 games. But to think that he will wear out, is not all obvious, but highly imaginative. It's fairly clear that many on here just "WANT" Ramo to be the starter, because they do. And I get that, fine. But we should be happy that we have Jmac. Instead of saying "Jmac is finding success and helping us win, BUT... Ramo Ramo Ramo Berra", Can we just say: "Jmac is finding success and helping us win, Woo!" ? The only "obvious" thing I was talking about was that Joey was not the long term filler for the team. The rest of it was me talking about goalie prospects in terms of when I felt they would have any real impact on the team. Just my opinion, not obvious. BTW, I don't WANT Ramo to be the starter; I want the Flames to resolve the short and long term goalie situation, not put in a stopgap measure. I will cheer any win by the Flames. I did last year as well, when we were without a replacement to the Kipper legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 I am not sure that is necessarily fair. I think most people's assessment was that (before last night) MacDonald hadn't perform any better than Ramo. The coaches had indicated a "you win you are in" approach to the goal tending situation so when the Flames lost to Vancouver with Mac in almost the identical way they lost to Washington with Ramo they were expecting Ramo to get the next start. I think that is a fair expectation. It appears to many, including a number of media close to the Flames, that the coaching staff has a bit of a preference to MacDonald. And if that is true that is a problem IMO because I think it is in the Flames best interest to see what they have in Ramo. That said, If MacDonald earns the starts (like he did last night) than I don't have any problem with him getting starts. I think putting him in tomorrow is absolutely the right call. And as I said above, Ramo not getting the start last night may have been because it was Montreal. But as we go forward I think fans will have a legitimate complaint if the Flames don't give Ramo a fair crack. MacDonald might be the starter this season. But he isn't the starter of tomorrow. The Flames need to find that person. They need to see enough of Ramo to at the very least scratch him off the list. I don't see any problem. Ramo is signed for 2 years and will give the Flames lots of time to find out if he is capable of taking the "starting goalie ball" and running with it. What is everyones hurry to get him lots of starts in now ?? Worst case is he gets delegated to backup or sent to Abby for some icetime.(Berra is supposedly playing very well down there so far.) I have not heard anything about favoritism and have in fact heard it is a combined group decision on which goalie gets the next start. As far as I have seen JMac has earned each start with good play. Ramo has not made any highlight reel stops in his start in Washington but JMac has made them in each of his games(especially the last 2 games.) In my eyes JMac is hand down "winner" of who is hot and playing better. Note: I am not ragging on Ramo he has played well just nothing to set him apart or deserving over JMac in getting the next start decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 I don't see any problem. Ramo is signed for 2 years and will give the Flames lots of time to find out if he is capable of taking the "starting goalie ball" and running with it. What is everyones hurry to get him lots of starts in now ?? Worst case is he gets delegated to backup or sent to Abby for some icetime.(Berra is supposedly playing very well down there so far.) I have not heard anything about favoritism and have in fact heard it is a combined group decision on which goalie gets the next start. As far as I have seen JMac has earned each start with good play. Ramo has not made any highlight reel stops in his start in Washington but JMac has made them in each of his games(especially the last 2 games.) In my eyes JMac is hand down "winner" of who is hot and playing better. Note: I am not ragging on Ramo he has played well just nothing to set him apart or deserving over JMac in getting the next start decisions. I believe it was Peter Maher who said something along the lines of some coaches trust certain guys. It was in response to the "why MacDonald" question. But it might just be an off the cuff answer. I am not worried yet either. As I said the fact that the opposition was Montreal might have been the reason for Mac getting the start last night. There is no question Mac deserves the start tomorrow. But I think it is a fair question on why MacDonald is getting all of the starts when (other than last night) neither goalie has been particularly good. If MacDonald loses a game I hope Ramo gets the next start. if he doesn't I will start worrying a bit. Ramo needs to play to get better. We may have him signed for two years, but if he isn't getting the play time he won't be very good. If there plan is to put him on the bench than they should cycle him and Berra so Ramo can get some NA starts in Abby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zirakzigil Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 If MacDonald loses a game I hope Ramo gets the next start. if he doesn't I will start worrying a bit. Ramo needs to play to get better. We may have him signed for two years, but if he isn't getting the play time he won't be very good. If there plan is to put him on the bench than they should cycle him and Berra so Ramo can get some NA starts in Abby. He did, he lost to the Nucks. If were playing that game he should have got the start for the Jackets win, which he did, and then lost the start to the Habs game due to the loss to the Nucks. Hartley is favoring Mac early on and I dont like it personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kehatch Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 He did, he lost to the Nucks. If were playing that game he should have got the start for the Jackets win, which he did, and then lost the start to the Habs game due to the loss to the Nucks. Hartley is favoring Mac early on and I dont like it personally. Mac getting a start yesterday after the loss is why I think people have some concern. But I am willing to give that one a pass since I am not sure if they wanted Ramo under extra pressure against his old team. That might have nothing to do with it. It might just be Hartley favoring Mac. But I am willing to give it one more loss before I get too worried. But if this continues I am with you. I won't like it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis23 Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 Mac getting a start yesterday after the loss is why I think people have some concern. But I am willing to give that one a pass since I am not sure if they wanted Ramo under extra pressure against his old team. That might have nothing to do with it. It might just be Hartley favoring Mac. But I am willing to give it one more loss before I get too worried. But if this continues I am with you. I won't like it either. lol, Ramo never even played a game for the Habs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 Fan 960 mentioned that Hartleys favorite of the 3 is Berra. He knows him and his abilities from the Swiss league. That contradicts all the talk about the Hartley playing favorites?? Hartley also mentioned the starter is decided among all the coaches. That indicates to me that "losses" aren't the only parameter in deciding who gets the next start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 Do we know who gets the start tonight? Please tell me its not jmac,..if it is, I hate to say it but I hope we get pasted 10-0. Ramo needs to play and he needs a string of games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 Do we know who gets the start tonight? Please tell me its not jmac,..if it is, I hate to say it but I hope we get pasted 10-0. Ramo needs to play and he needs a string of games. We are on the verge of setting a team season starting record and you are complaining about the goaltender who has played us through most of that record? Sigh go figure.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted October 11, 2013 Report Share Posted October 11, 2013 We are on the verge of setting a team season starting record and you are complaining about the goaltender who has played us through most of that record? Sigh go figure.... I agree with the results, and I do agree with what you said, but..lets be honest..I hope im wrong, but eventually the wheels will fall off..teams will stop taking us lightly and we will settle into our eventual position of being bottom 3. This season is about development.jmac isn't kipper..he cant play 70+ games.Ramo needs to play regularly. He played a very strong game against washington, there is no reason he should be sitting on the bench, we are about to go on a pretty tough road trip, do we think jmac is playig the string? Or does ramo go in cold and next thing we know he blows one and hes sitting for 2 weeks again.. its a bad move, streak or not. If anything jersey is playinf like garbage right now, its the best time to give ramo his next start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geos Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 That contradicts all the talk about the Hartley playing favorites?? Hartley also mentioned the starter is decided among all the coaches. That indicates to me that "losses" aren't the only parameter in deciding who gets the next start. Ramo is on the big team because Feaster needs to look good for signing him to an absurd contract. Hartley doesn't get to play Berra because Feaster won't swap him in for Ramo. It's not about Hartley's favourites or who should be in the NHL. It's about a stupid contract that Feaster signed. Again. Look at Viktor Faskth, a great comparable for Ramo. He got $1M for 1 year. That's what you get when trying to show you can play the big man's game. Then, after he was fantastic last year, he got $2.9 x 2. Feaster was so determined to show that one of his "best outside the NHL" players was great that he signed Ramo to the big deal before he proved a damn thing in the league. He got the Faskth deal without playing like Faskth. Now we're stuck with a goalie that's not very good on a $5.5M deal that Feaster needs to protect in order to make himself look good. And you wonder why Burke is here? Hmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 Ramo is on the big team because Feaster needs to look good for signing him to an absurd contract. Hartley doesn't get to play Berra because Feaster won't swap him in for Ramo. It's not about Hartley's favourites or who should be in the NHL. It's about a stupid contract that Feaster signed. Again. Look at Viktor Faskth, a great comparable for Ramo. He got $1M for 1 year. That's what you get when trying to show you can play the big man's game. Then, after he was fantastic last year, he got $2.9 x 2. Feaster was so determined to show that one of his "best outside the NHL" players was great that he signed Ramo to the big deal before he proved a damn thing in the league. He got the Faskth deal without playing like Faskth. Now we're stuck with a goalie that's not very good on a $5.5M deal that Feaster needs to protect in order to make himself look good. And you wonder why Burke is here? Hmm... Couple issues here..first, how do we say he's not good? He Hasnt played!! He gad a great preseason, was the biggest reason the Washington game even went to a shootout..he definitely has not played himself to the bench, so to say hes not very good is an unknown, but his small sample size says otherwise 2nd..it was hartley that makes the roster decisions,, could just as easily have sent ramo down and kept berra if he really liked him better. They said he needed lots of playing time, but its now apparent he knew hed be sitting on the bench because theyd be playing jmac 98% of the time We have lots of cap room so salary plays no part in this decision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 Macdonald starting.....sigh...this is getting ridiculous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geos Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 Couple issues here..first, how do we say he's not good? He Hasnt played!! He gad a great preseason, was the biggest reason the Washington game even went to a shootout..he definitely has not played himself to the bench, so to say hes not very good is an unknown, but his small sample size says otherwise 2nd..it was hartley that makes the roster decisions,, could just as easily have sent ramo down and kept berra if he really liked him better. They said he needed lots of playing time, but its now apparent he knew hed be sitting on the bench because theyd be playing jmac 98% of the time We have lots of cap room so salary plays no part in this decision He didn't have a good preseason. He was downright awful in the Edmonton game. He had an ok game against the Rangers. And he wasn't great against Washington, he was decent yet allowed two softies. Ramo hasn't been better than JMac. I could understand someone arguing they have been similar, but Ramo has not been better. Hartley doesn't make roster decisions, he makes line up decisions. Roster decisions rest with Feaster (until Burke takes that away too). I'm sure Hartley has a lot of influence, but Feaster has the power to cover his butt. It's not a salary cap issue, it's a oh crap I paid an ok at best goalie $5.5M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 I've somewhat given up on the season before it started, and I'm paying way more attention to the players in this year's draft than I am the Flame's current standings. FYI: Sam Reinhart is shaping up to be an incredible superstar, early on in this season. Think: Playing better than Baertschi did in Junior, but a year younger. Very, very few human comparables in this world (if he keeps it up). Yet, I don't actually Want the Flames to lose any one particular game, even though I actually have a good reason to. I'm just amazed that people would post for a 10-0 pasting because they didn't get to see their favourite goalie play. Amazing. p.s....why would he be your favourite goalie? Because of some interview with Feaster? I see no other reason. Regardless, I don't care if he's the 2nd coming of Patrick Roy, I've no idea why anyone here would wish for the Flames to lose 10-0 unless they get to see their favourite goalie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 He didn't have a good preseason. He was downright awful in the Edmonton game. He had an ok game against the Rangers. And he wasn't great against Washington, he was decent yet allowed two softies. Ramo hasn't been better than JMac. I could understand someone arguing they have been similar, but Ramo has not been better. Hartley doesn't make roster decisions, he makes line up decisions. Roster decisions rest with Feaster (until Burke takes that away too). I'm sure Hartley has a lot of influence, but Feaster has the power to cover his butt. It's not a salary cap issue, it's a oh crap I paid an ok at best goalie $5.5M. Ill agree with you on the oilers game, but he practically stole the eangers game..hence why he was 2nd star. And gee..first start in the nhl after 4 years, I think he can be forgiven for a couple softies considering he still darn near stole it. If that really is true, then if I were feaster and burke, id trade macdonald..force hartley to actually play his #1 goalie...ever see the movie moneyball? Thats how a gm gets his coach to play the guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 I've somewhat given up on the season before it started, and I'm paying way more attention to the players in this year's draft than I am the Flame's current standings. FYI: Sam Reinhart is shaping up to be an incredible superstar, early on in this season. Think: Playing better than Baertschi did in Junior, but a year younger. Very, very few human comparables in this world (if he keeps it up). Yet, I don't actually Want the Flames to lose any one particular game, even though I actually have a good reason to. I'm just amazed that people would post for a 10-0 pasting because they didn't get to see their favourite goalie play. Amazing. p.s....why would he be your favourite goalie? Because of some interview with Feaster? I see no other reason. Regardless, I don't care if he's the 2nd coming of Patrick Roy, I've no idea why anyone here would wish for the Flames to lose 10-0 unless they get to see their favourite goalie. Never said he was my favorite goalie..even tho he has the creds, I would be making the same argument if this were Berra, ortio, or Brossoit. We arw supposed to be developing our players..mac is a backup, pure and simple..we got in this mess because we sat goalies on the bench instead of playing them. Even if I agreed that he had a bad outing in washington (I dont) it was ONE GAME. He won the #1 job, play him..he has a bad game? Play him again. Im an ex goalie and I can tell you the best way to ruin a goalie is glue him to the bench knowing if he doesnt pitch a shut out his next chance out hes right back on the bench.. Just as you develop monahan and Sven is to keep putting them out there. Win or lose, riding jmac this hard is the worst thing we can do.. just go get bryzgalov if youre not gonna develop somebody Ps..why do you hate the guy?a handful of games on a bad team 4 years ago?he was the best goalie in the 2nd best league in the world, he deserves the chance to at least play himself out of the job..and.2.5 mill per season is a pretty reasonable salary for a starter Pps..and the reason I think mac needs to get lit up is its the only way hartley may stop riding the guy, its not doing this team any favors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 There was not a single sentence in the post you just made that I could even relate to in any way. And I mean, I looked to see if there was a sentence that I could agree with to find some common ground. Even if you're right, and the rest of the world is wrong (including Hartley, and whoever else is behind this conspiracy).... Can you at least wish Jmac, and the Flames well? i don't think that's too much to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 Oh I do..I think its great we are getting out of the gate fast, and I tjink its funny we are making the oilers look silly. Im not wishing them bad, I'm just saying I have no interest in getting back to the middle of the pack but still miss the playoffs days. Jmac is not our goalie of the future.ill be surprised if hes here next year..hell be 35 next season.at some point you need to develop one..you dont do that in the ahl..you do it by playing nhl games, and you do it by playing a string of games. Jmac is the best backup we have had in years, but he doesnt have the upside..I am wishing the team well, but if you ride a backup too long..2 things happen, first he burns out and eventually tanks a game (4th straight start tonight and hes let in 2 softies)..then 2nd you put your starter back in cold and he will likely lose that game By the start of next season, we have an improved lineup, but once again no nhl experienced starter..isnt it better for the flames to develop that starter now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 ? So, now what...are condelences in order? Another solid win, with steady goaltending. I know this wasn't the 10-0 loss you were hoping for phoenix, but at least he let in a couple? trying to look on the bright side... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix66 Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 ? So, now what...are condelences in order? Another solid win, with steady goaltending. I know this wasn't the 10-0 loss you were hoping for phoenix, but at least he let in a couple? trying to look on the bright side... He let in 2 bad ones..hopefully hartley sees that jmac is overworked and gives ramo the full road trip. You call 2 in 21 steady..but 4 in 39 makes ramo a bad goalie whos an overpaid mistake that needs to be benched...interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDeeds Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 Pps..and the reason I think mac needs to get lit up is its the only way hartley may stop riding the guy, its not doing this team any favors There is no doubt in my mind that over and above the good play that another good reason JMac is playing is because the whole team really likes the guy and will play hard for him. We found that out when JMac had to play multiple games when Kipper got hurt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjgallow Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 There is no doubt in my mind that over and above the good play that another good reason JMac is playing is because the whole team really likes the guy and will play hard for him. We found that out when JMac had to play multiple games when Kipper got hurt. 100%. Absolutely. I sort of get that there are those who have an arguement for Ramo (although it's a very poor one imho). But I don't understand how anybody couldn't like Jmac, cheer for him, or want him to do well. Either as a player or a fan. He's just that kind of person and player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now